What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

[ipsullivan]

I am starting a DPMS syle .308 AR build and I am currently doing some research on barrels. I would have liked to go with Noveske but it is out of the question as of now since I am not going with the AR-10 route, unless convinced otherwise.

My first question is barrel length a twist rate, I have no idea, have only been a 5.56 guy so far. Obviously over 20" but how far? is 24" overkill? I would like to be able to reach out to 500m but most of the time will be shooting up to 200m. And for twist rate I do not know what ammo to shoot so some advice would be nice, and I do not reload (yet).

I was looking at the Krieger website and they seem to be top notch. Looks like they will assemble a barrel to the upper, match to the bolt, and crown all for$240 on top of the $400 for the barrel so that comes to ~$650 maybe more depending if I decide to have something else done to it.( I know they have a long turn around but that is not a big deal since this is a long term project). I like the idea of them assembling the upper since I am looking for accuracy.

Is Krieger top of the line, any good competitors? What kind of accuracy am I looking at with good ammo? I would like to get at least 1 or sub MOA.

I am struggling to find info on barrels and accuracy, most people seem to buy a complete upper/rifle or have lots of cash and go with GAP.

I posted over on ARFCOM but wasn't getting much help so I decided this is a more appropriate place.

Help a .308 noob out

Thanks
Ian

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

There are many top of the line barrels out there.
Kreiger is one of them.
Go with the Kreiger.
Any legal barrel length will get you past 500 M.
I'd keep it at 20" or less.
A 1:10 twist will work well across the board.

 

[ipsullivan]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are many top of the line barrels out there.
Kreiger is one of them.
Go with the Kreiger.
Any legal barrel length will get you past 500 M.
I'd keep it at 20" or less.
A 1:10 twist will work well across the board. </div></div>



Will I see any difference in accuracy from a 18" compared to a 21" or 22".

 

[Lowlight]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ipsullivan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are many top of the line barrels out there.
Kreiger is one of them.
Go with the Kreiger.
Any legal barrel length will get you past 500 M.
I'd keep it at 20" or less.
A 1:10 twist will work well across the board. </div></div>



Will I see any difference in accuracy from a 18" compared to a 21" or 22".</div></div>

Not with a good barrel... accuracy of a good barrel is not affected by length, velocity is... I have a 16" 308 AR10 that hits consistently 1 MOA out to 800 yards.

in fact most are seeing that shorter barrels are in fact a bit more accurate because they are stiff as well the bipod is more forward of the barrel which also helps. When you put 12" of barrel past the bipod your accuracy will fall off a bit.

I would recommend any good custom barrel, 20" or shorter...not longer.

Bartlein, Rock, Krieger are all good barrels, and are who I would recommend.

 

[ipsullivan]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ipsullivan</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are many top of the line barrels out there.
Kreiger is one of them.
Go with the Kreiger.
Any legal barrel length will get you past 500 M.
I'd keep it at 20" or less.
A 1:10 twist will work well across the board. </div></div>



Will I see any difference in accuracy from a 18" compared to a 21" or 22".</div></div>

Not with a good barrel... accuracy of a good barrel is not affected by length, velocity is... I have a 16" 308 AR10 that hits consistently 1 MOA out to 800 yards.

in fact most are seeing that shorter barrels are in fact a bit more accurate because they are stiff as well the bipod is more forward of the barrel which also helps. When you put 12" of barrel past the bipod your accuracy will fall off a bit.

I would recommend any good custom barrel, 20" or shorter...not longer.

Bartlein, Rock, Krieger are all good barrels, and are who I would recommend. </div></div>

I will probably go with a 18" or 20". Would it degrade accuracy to have the barrel at the gas block be .750" and of course to the muzzle? I don't know if Krieger would do it either.

I ask because I am looking into using PRI's .308 flip up front sight gas block.

 

[GRIM]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

What about JP barrels?? I don't have a .308 barrel from him but I do have one of his .223 barrels and it shoots great. A buddy of mine is running one of his .308's and it shoots 3/4 MOA on average.

 

[savage110]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

krieger.

 

[excess]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Bartlein, Krieger, and Rock were mentioned as top of the line barrels, and I would have to agree. However, I believe Krieger is the only one that will give you an AR-10 contour. Bartlein won't (GA takes Bartlein blanks and contours them themselves). I'm not sure about Rock, but I kind of doubt it. As of June 4th Krieger has a 24" 1:12 twist 30 caliber DPMS barrel on the shelf, as well as a 26" 7mm 1:10. Could be cut down and crowned to your desired length. Krieger offers this service, but if you want it faster I'd call Mark at Short Action Customs.

 

[Tactical30]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Rainier Arms usually has the Noveske .308 (AR-10) barrels in stock.

They are also quality barrels. With no wait!

 

[Unknown]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Kreiger, Bartlein, Rock, Schneider, Lilja, Border, Obermeyer all make fine barrels. I'm certain that I have forgotten many other top quality barrel makers as there are alot of people making top quality barrels now. 25 years ago there just weren't as many people making top quality barrels, but technology, and demand have both improved.

I think that the 20 inch barrel will serve you best. I have used both 20 and 24 inch barrels on semi-auto 308's, and think that the 20 is handiest. They 20 inch will give you sufficient velocity for 600-800 meters, but might struggle at 1000 meters due to the slight velocity loss from a 4 inch shorter barrel.

Much shorter than 20 inches and muzzle blast will begin to be a greater issue. This can be mitigated with a good muzzle attachment though.

Accuracy won't suffer at all by going from 24 to 20 inches...if anything, I would guess it will improve. The longer barrels don't "swing" as well for multiple target engagements, and are a little less handy for offhand shooting.

When evaluating whether you want a 20 or 24 inch barrel for a semi-auto, consider what length barrel the military services from various countries use on their semi-auto rifles. There are many good reasons most of them use barrels around 20 inches in length.

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Well the gunsmith that cuts your chamber and contours the blank is very important.
Krieger will do pretty much what ever you want but there are many folks out there who can take a blank and make exactly what you want.
Give Randy Gregory at: http://www.accuracyunlimited.com/ a call.
Many gunsmiths worth their salt are busy folks this time of year, but he may be able to do it for you.
Frank White at Compass Lake Engineering is another guy who'd be able to do that after camp Perry is over.

The factory that produces and cuts the blank, doesn't necessarily have to be the one to contour, chamber, and headspace the barrel.
It is usually a tad cheaper to go the other route, and you will know who is actually doing the work.
You can even talk to them if you want.

 

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

in fact most are seeing that shorter barrels are in fact a bit more accurate because they are stiff as well the bipod is more forward of the barrel which also helps. When you put 12" of barrel past the bipod your accuracy will fall off a bit.
</div></div>

Lowlight- Is this because- I don't know how to say it? Is the most stable position for a bipod actually near or even past the muzzle end -if you could do it- irregardless of barrel length? Does it have something to do with the distance between the bipod legs and the third point of contact allowing you to make finer adjustments. Inately I see what you are saying, I was just trying to figure out the why? THX

 

[ipsullivan]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

I called Krieger a little while ago and the guy I spoke with was very helpful.

They cannot do .750" at the gas block so that option is out the window.

I am going to go with their M-110 service rifle barrle, he said it would be about 3xmonths. To get their AR-10/DPMS barrel it would be about 7 months.

Was thinking a LaRue gas block now. Any recommendations?

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Evolution gun works:
http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=170

The clamp on gas blocks keep barrel distortions to a minimum.
They are very easy to install and remove, and they seal very tightly.

They come in four different sizes.

 

[JPaul]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

A friend of mine just built an a DPMS style with a 24" lothar Walther Barel that does one hole at a 100yds. He sent them a barrel extension, a bolt, and lothar matched it all up. The turn around was about 4 mo though. But he did do some machining to the upper though.

 

[SierraCharlie]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Rock makes an AR-10 T contour that's 5R rifled and an 11.25 twist. It would definitely meet your criteria.

SC

 

[clay_breaker]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Re: gas blocks, if your going to put a can on it, get an adjustable one. It makes a big difference in the way it will run.

 

[Brasscow]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

I am glad to hear that those barrels are only 3 months out. I ordered a 110 service rifle barrel from Krieger about 5 weeks ago and they said between 18-20 weeks.

Maybe mine will show up sooner...

What twist did you get? I have a 20" with 1 in 10 coming. Going to turn it into a M110 service rifle for NRA Highpower competition.

 

[head2h2o]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Can't speak about any of the other companies listed, but I have been shooting a 24: Krieger and I am more than pleased. It will shoot .5 MOA. I was consistently getting groups measuring 1 inch at 200 yds with a couple of different loads. I was pleased enough I ordered a second for another build. I think I went with a 1 in 11 twist, but I don't intend to shoot anything over the 175 SMK. I am getting 2645 fps out of the 175 SMKs. Go Krieger. You won't regret it. They are great folks to deal with also. I have been nothing but pleased with their customer service and willingness to answer questions.

 

[ipsullivan]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: brasscow</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am glad to hear that those barrels are only 3 months out. I ordered a 110 service rifle barrel from Krieger about 5 weeks ago and they said between 18-20 weeks.

Maybe mine will show up sooner...

What twist did you get? I have a 20" with 1 in 10 coming. Going to turn it into a M110 service rifle for NRA Highpower competition. </div></div>

I was told that they try to keep the M110 barrels in stock because there is only one contour and length. They do not have them in stock as of yesterday , he said 3-4 month turn around.

 

[Tactical]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

there are many good bbls that shoot great out there but one thing overlooked is velcoity you will get from the shorter tube.

Mike Rock's bbls tend to be real fast so thats my first choice of bbls.

If you can get an Obermeyer you will love it but hard to get one.

Krieger is also a very good high velocity bbl

Just my choices and I am sure some like others better, but these have worked well for me.

 

[padronanniversary]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bartlein, Krieger, and Rock were mentioned as top of the line barrels, and I would have to agree. However, I believe Krieger is the only one that will give you an AR-10 contour. Bartlein won't (GA takes Bartlein blanks and contours them themselves). I'm not sure about Rock, but I kind of doubt it. As of June 4th Krieger has a 24" 1:12 twist 30 caliber DPMS barrel on the shelf, as well as a 26" 7mm 1:10. Could be cut down and crowned to your desired length. Krieger offers this service, but if you want it faster I'd call Mark at Short Action Customs.</div></div>



Rock does give you a AR-10 contour. I have one ! Actually, I have barrels from Kreiger, Rock, Bartlein, and a few more. They all shoot great.

I've been on a Rock kick lately since turn time and service have been more than amazing from Paul.

 

[pagana]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

The other option is selecting an available blank from a house like Bruno Shooters Supply and having a smith setup the barrel and chamber it. If you select a 18LV from Krieger (available at Bruno right now, you could complete your build in a much shorter timetable. I suggest the 18LV because it is 1.2" at the chamber which is the largest OD that will fit under the AR10 barrel nut. It is still a heavy contour, but it could be fluted or just cut to say 20" or under for considerable weight savings. Also, this contour allows one to simply cut the .935" gas block diameter to whatever dimension one deems necessary. Lastly, for a .30 cal I would stick to a 10 twist which would cover any weight up to 190s.

While longer in length, it is the contour shown below.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

try fulton armory. they use krieger barrels. should have them in stock.

 

[SierraCharlie]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">try fulton armory. they use krieger barrels. should have them in stock.</div></div>

Keep in mind that the Krieger Criterion barrels are not the same as the Krieger Match barrels.

 

[Lakota]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

When I decided to try out a Non-G3 308 I came across a DPMS AP4 LR308 ( flat topped with standard A2 front sight) at a buddies shop and grabbed it up. I coud'nt have been more surprised at the accuracy of this rifle, sub MOA was normal with top shelf factory ammo and MOA +/- with budget ammo i.e Wal-mart Federal SP etc. @ 100

Mind that this is a factory DPMS 16" barrel, Would never have let go of that rifle go if work hadnt laid us all off at the start of 09.

But I did make a $600.00 profit since I bought it before Obongo got elected.

Hope that helps a little in your choice of length

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

thats true about the criterion barrels. i was gonna say that. the thing i find is that all the barrels are about the same price for a 308 in the non top maker or custom brands. dpms ranges from $180 to $299 i think and im not sure whats special about them. everybody is higher. used AR barrels in 308 start with really high asking prices. i think noveske was highest in cost at around $560. you could get one made by someone. ROCK CREEK makes them. plenty of used take offs too.

 

[cut rifled]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

We have AR-10T barrels in stock ready to ship.


Paul

 

[Rovieairto]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

I have a criterion barrel in 308.
It cleans really easy, which is always a good sign.
I got a medium weight profile, and if I could do over, would've got a heavy.
Accuracy has been 1.0-1.5 moa with most of my loads.
I feel that the heavy would shoot better as the med contour is pretty light.
I would recommend this barrel if that level of accuracy is acceptable.

Paul,
Are you producing any barrels for the DPMS style large frame AR's?

 

[longebow]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Krieger is a great choice. Cut-rifled barrels like Krieger, tend to last longer for service type (read semi-auto) use than button or broach cut match quality barrels. Hammer-forged barrels are in a different category, and "match" quality is hit/miss.

I have many Krieger barrels, and they all have shot great, clean up easily, and last. As you mentioned, they can fit the barrel to your components--which is helpful, and ensures that your rifle goes together better, and with confidence.

Depending upon your usage, 18-20 should provide the muzzle velocity needed to get 175s to 700+ meters. The military loading (M118LR) does really well in AR10s or M1As which have barrels 20-21" in length.

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

118LR will get to 800m and kill in 16" 7.62mm guns.

But for shooting matches at those distances the 20" barrel is better IMHO

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

i am looking at a place called black hole weaponry. they offer a polygonal rifled barrel, mid length gas port location with 5 grooves at 18" in stainless steel for ... $215. add $20 for 3 groove, better accuracy i hear, and $10 for it coated black. so, $245 plus shipping. ill let you know

also, noveske makes a 308 barrel. its $560 last time i looked

 

[SierraCharlie]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hamilton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a criterion barrel in 308.
It cleans really easy, which is always a good sign.
I got a medium weight profile, and if I could do over, would've got a heavy.
Accuracy has been 1.0-1.5 moa with most of my loads.
I feel that the heavy would shoot better as the med contour is pretty light.
I would recommend this barrel if that level of accuracy is acceptable.

Paul,
Are you producing any barrels for the DPMS style large frame AR's? </div></div>

The Rocks are blanks. You chamber, crown, port, cut 'em to length and add the extension

 

[KevinB-KAC]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

FYI as some have seen our our SR-25 EM Carbine, rifle gas is sufficient (and some may say optimal) for 7.62mm NATO

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

rifle gas port? what barrel length in that sr-25 em? just for the sake of knowing. i want a short barrel, 16"-18" and kreiger offeres both in a rifle gas option. 18" i can see, but 16" seems alot to ask for. but im a newb, i know nothing, so i ask alot of questions

from your post...

thats a 16" with rifle gas? not to ply any trade secrets, but its what i am going for. i need to mock something up and see what feels better. thats a nice looking rifle. im wondering if getting one to run for the average guy would be feasable or if i should go with mid length gas? time will tell i guess

 

[border_reiver]

Re: What barrel for a precision .308 AR?

Just make sure if you buy an unturned blank, send it to someone competent enough to turn a concentric barrel out of it. I've had a few queries in the past that so and so's barrel must have been sent 'bent' because the gas block is running out 'x'. Rubbish machining. If they can't turn barrels between centers it might be worth buyin a turned blank off the bat.