LOL that is what everyone who doesn't know any better thinks. My mole hill of bullets has to last me so sorry but can only help Gary.
ETA that was a joke and I know you know better.
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Range Report What changes after 700 yards...?
- Thread starter DownhillFromHere
- Start date
LOL that is what everyone who doesn't know any better thinks. My mole hill of bullets has to last me so sorry but can only help Gary.
ETA that was a joke and I know you know better.
Thanks Rob. Theoretically it “should” be faster than the 140 at that distance with slightly higher BC and same MV. Thus my idea of becoming unstable at that range. Both are starting to near transition velocity at that range and DA. Whether becoming unstable, or not transitioning as well as 140, effect is the same I guess. My conclusion was that it just needs more MV than factory load to keep it stable that far.
It might be unstable from the transitioning as almost any bullet will find a spot through the transonic into subsonic where it will start to be less stable. Might just be that 1330 range is where it does in yours. The 140 might have reached it before or just after that 1330 and shows better at that range. It's just like shooting a .22 at longer ranges. Most do not shoot supersonic .22 as there is a point as it transitions that it opens up in groups. Most shooting the longer range .22 matches shoot subsonic ammo. Just a thought on it.
OP, I'd say for whatever reason the 147's and your rifle aren't working well together past a certain distance. Most reasons have been mentioned right here in this thread. BTW I've read quite a few posts of people having problems with 147's. Bet most of it is twist rate and/or worn throats, maybe even rifling profile, etc.
Having had great success with 140 gr Berger hybrids I'd try those next. They worked great in my 6.5 Saum at a mile, even better at 1000Y, and that is out of a 8.5 twist.
I kinda went through the same thing a few months ago with another brand of bullet in my 6mmBR. That bullet shot okay at 300Y - like 3/4", and by 1000Y they were were absolutely horrible, like 3 foot vertical. The easy fix was 105 Berger hybrid which put in 4.5" vertical at 1025Y.
I am not associated with Berger bullets, they are expensive which I hate, but those are some awesome bullets for long range!!!
Having had great success with 140 gr Berger hybrids I'd try those next. They worked great in my 6.5 Saum at a mile, even better at 1000Y, and that is out of a 8.5 twist.
I kinda went through the same thing a few months ago with another brand of bullet in my 6mmBR. That bullet shot okay at 300Y - like 3/4", and by 1000Y they were were absolutely horrible, like 3 foot vertical. The easy fix was 105 Berger hybrid which put in 4.5" vertical at 1025Y.
I am not associated with Berger bullets, they are expensive which I hate, but those are some awesome bullets for long range!!!
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Somebody stated there is no problem with that Hornady bullet with OP's rig. Something like there is no problem with the 147 with 1:8 barrel.
I saw that.
Might be 10 guys with no problems, and then bam, for whatever reason the 1 guy has a problem. Some people are having problems with the 6.5 cal 150 SMK as well, these long for caliber bullets can be finicky.... Too much twist they tear apart, not enough twist they wack out at distance. They work better in some rifling profiles and not so good in others.... Plus all the other reasons.
I have an old almost worn out 30 caliber barrel in 9 twist. I worked up a load with the Hornday 225's which shot excellent. Heck I hit twice as many steel the first day of a two day ELR trip as anybody else. The next day I couldn't hit hardly any steel which was both very enlightening and very frustrating. Thought my barrel was done or scope was broke, man that sucked I'll tell yuh!. Nope the barrel was extremely dirty, a good cleaning and it was shooting fine again, of course that was when I got back from the trip.
If it isn't working, it isn't working...
Update. Went back to Frontline yesterday, got there early (9:15ish) hoping to beat wind & mirage. Success.
First six rounds downrange from cold clean bore were hits at 1000 yards. The steel hadn't been painted yet, so we could not tell exactly where the hits were on the plate (Frontline does not allow shooters downrange because of intersecting range lanes).
The 850-yard IPSC plate had a few inches of clean paint up by the shoulders and the head was also clean. Using Strelok settings, I stacked 2 rounds 0.2 mils right of POA on the upper torso. I held 0.2 left and put the third round precisely in the middle of the head.
So, the first indicators yesterday clearly showed my rounds were solid sub-1/2 MOA performers at 850. We couldn't see the 1k-yard hits but we could see the plate move - edge hits "twist" it, center hits punch it straight back. Out of the six hits, one twisted a little.
After spotting for my buddy awhile, we moved to the 100-yard sighter range where I tested ten hastily-constructed 140gr ELD rounds (5 each 41.0, 41.3 H4350, Hornady brass, 2.845" OAL). These did not do very well at 100 yards - 0.5-0.7" - so I didn't bother shooting the rest of them at 1000. (Given my rifle's definite liking for 147s, I have no intent to work up a 140ELD load).
Moving back to 1000, we had lunch and socialized awhile with other folks who came by. By 2pm, the mirage and wind were noticeable, though nowhere nearly as pronounced as last week. Paul had painted the steel by this point. I found that my 850- and 1000-yard hits were significantly more spread out on the plates - or missed completely - as compared to the morning.
So, the lesson learned is that I should only shoot when there is no wind or mirage. Then I'm an expert....
First six rounds downrange from cold clean bore were hits at 1000 yards. The steel hadn't been painted yet, so we could not tell exactly where the hits were on the plate (Frontline does not allow shooters downrange because of intersecting range lanes).
The 850-yard IPSC plate had a few inches of clean paint up by the shoulders and the head was also clean. Using Strelok settings, I stacked 2 rounds 0.2 mils right of POA on the upper torso. I held 0.2 left and put the third round precisely in the middle of the head.
So, the first indicators yesterday clearly showed my rounds were solid sub-1/2 MOA performers at 850. We couldn't see the 1k-yard hits but we could see the plate move - edge hits "twist" it, center hits punch it straight back. Out of the six hits, one twisted a little.
After spotting for my buddy awhile, we moved to the 100-yard sighter range where I tested ten hastily-constructed 140gr ELD rounds (5 each 41.0, 41.3 H4350, Hornady brass, 2.845" OAL). These did not do very well at 100 yards - 0.5-0.7" - so I didn't bother shooting the rest of them at 1000. (Given my rifle's definite liking for 147s, I have no intent to work up a 140ELD load).
Moving back to 1000, we had lunch and socialized awhile with other folks who came by. By 2pm, the mirage and wind were noticeable, though nowhere nearly as pronounced as last week. Paul had painted the steel by this point. I found that my 850- and 1000-yard hits were significantly more spread out on the plates - or missed completely - as compared to the morning.
So, the lesson learned is that I should only shoot when there is no wind or mirage. Then I'm an expert....
Good report, thanks for reporting back.
May you have more windless mornings to build data and "see" the wind change and figure out those "rascally" holds that hide from us when we need them most.
Best to you.
May you have more windless mornings to build data and "see" the wind change and figure out those "rascally" holds that hide from us when we need them most.
Best to you.
Thank you sir. I wish Frontline was closer in distance, in which case I would have discovered the past-700-yard "difficulty" a year ago.
But the reality is, from an improve-for-competition perspective, I need to spend FAR more time working on quickly getting into stable positions and quickly getting shots off, within limits of my physical condition. I did a 1x1 training day with an accomplished instructor... basically he said I have the requisite knowledge for positioning (much of it gained for skeet competition); it's a matter of practice/repetition to pick up the speed as much as my worn-out spine and gimpy leg will allow.
Cheers!
I don't have data for the 147s, but for the 140s: at a muzzle velocity of 2900 fps at 600 yards 1.2" for every 20 fps variation; at 1,000 yards it's about 5" for a 20 fps variance. That covers vertical dispersion due to velocity variances. Big difference going from 600 to 1,000. At 1,000 windage is about 64" for a full value 10 mph wind, change in windage due to velocity change runs about 1" in a 10 mph full value wind for every 20 fps variance in velocity.
It looks a bit like you're having a little trouble with the wind. Keep in mind the trajectory of the bullet may be at least 26 feet above your line of sight at 1,000. Wind speeds at ground level are typically less than at 26 feet so. How tall are the wind flags at your range? As far as reading mirage goes, I've been to a couple of ranges that mirage lies like a m**********r. One in particular where the 1,000 yard target is usually 3/4 moa up and right of where I see on a calm day, so I don't actually aim at the center of the bull to hit it.
I'm a bit surprised at the 147s not matching the 140s at range that some people are experiencing (I've never used the 147s) given some folks have admitted good success with them. Generally for competition I develop one load and stick with it, one less variable to deal with. Been using the same load for my primary rifle for over twenty years.
It looks a bit like you're having a little trouble with the wind. Keep in mind the trajectory of the bullet may be at least 26 feet above your line of sight at 1,000. Wind speeds at ground level are typically less than at 26 feet so. How tall are the wind flags at your range? As far as reading mirage goes, I've been to a couple of ranges that mirage lies like a m**********r. One in particular where the 1,000 yard target is usually 3/4 moa up and right of where I see on a calm day, so I don't actually aim at the center of the bull to hit it.
I'm a bit surprised at the 147s not matching the 140s at range that some people are experiencing (I've never used the 147s) given some folks have admitted good success with them. Generally for competition I develop one load and stick with it, one less variable to deal with. Been using the same load for my primary rifle for over twenty years.
