What do you want out of steel targets? Looking for feedback.

[Cody@Ei]

Hey all, we're currently offering a line of AR500 targets. Despite knowing there's demand for steel targets, we're not selling a lot. I want to get some opinions/feedback on what we can do better to provide a better product that's valuable and shooters really want.

Right now we have the basic shapes (2"-24" circles and 5x8" - 18x30" IPSCs in 3/8" and 1/2" thick.) We think our prices are good. When we've done competitor research we're typically a couple bucks to 10%+ lower on an equivalent product. I've also received several comments about how reasonable our products are priced. However typically those people don't end up buying.

What are we missing?

Are shooters wanting more interesting shapes?
Are you looking for strictly the cheapest steel?
Is it something else we're not considering perhaps?

If you don't shoot steel... why? Is it too expensive overall? Are you just not interested? Don't have a place to shoot it? Worried about safety?

I just want to start a conversation with y'all so we can start to figure out how we can adjust so we can be more successful and provide good quality steel to everyone that wants it. We're at a loss. We're getting traffic to the site, things seem to be getting looked at, but they're just not selling. So we're to the point of considering cutting the whole line of products loose and focusing elsewhere. However I figured we should maybe ask potential customers directly, where we're missing the mark before we make that decision.

I'm not providing our website or Facebook page because I don't want to break any of the rules here. Plus the point here is to get feedback from the direct from the actual market, not to push our info.

Feedback is genuinely appreciated. Thanks all.

 

[Fursniper]

Feedback...ok, most areas have a steel supply company that can provide AR500. My experience would seem to indicate that it's just easier and cheaper (because of shipping expense) to simply get what I need locally. I tell them what size I want, where I want the hole for hanging and what thickness I want and I have the target(s) in hand in a day or two. Other times, and this costs even less, two or 3 guys will go in together and buy a 4x8' sheet and have it cut up to what we want, very cheap that way. I suspect quite a few shooters do this and may be part of the reason for the disappointing sales you are experiencing.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

I've entered the AR500 market within the last year and here's what I've found:

My steel is waterjet cut, in person folks can see the HAZ with laser/plasma, but online few seem to care, migrating to the cheapest thing available.

The folks that move a lot of steel have nearly free advertising from youtubers, big matches, etc.

The cheapest steel sells. Look at Amazon, Ebay, etc. I suspect some at the bottom end of the price range may not test at proper hardness.

I think there is a market for quick buck type sales of exotically shaped targets related to current events, but it would require really being on the ball. Think a hurricane target the past few weeks, etc.


Also, most folks have never shot steel, and don't even consider it because of such. Get them to shoot your targets, show them why it's better than paper. That's my advice from what I've learned in the past year. I can't imagine trying to make a living off selling AR500 exclusively or even as a large portion of a business.

 

[Lowlight]

I like what Thomas Haugland is doing with the scoring rings for round targets, a way to make them stand out would be nice, but I know that is about paint.

A lot of discussion about steel targets hitting my doorstep lately. It's really tough to make this popular.

Cheap is definitely the name of the game, the other is shipping. Most like to stuff as much as they can in a flat rate box.

Honestly when you look at what XMETAL Targest are doing in Canada they have the right approach. No bolts, great mounting systems and moving plates. The gravity assist plate rack I am using is pretty awesome.

Tool-less is the key, and not just some lame little hook. Closer in they always bounce off. Targets USA has a great mounting system that is failure free. They are up in AK so that is tough from the shipping standpoint. But his stuff is really good mounting wise, but it's not all tool-less. Fix the tool-less issue at a good price point, with reasonable shipping you have a winner.

But every single state in the union has a guy making steel targets.

 

[Cody@Ei]

Thanks guys. This is definitely some of the feedback we've been considering, but just weren't sure about. The targets are not our long term goal. However, we thought it was going to be something to get us started and provide a base revenue for our longer term projects. We see demand out there, and people are definitely looking for it online. We're even getting them to the site. We're just not closing the deal. Which makes me feel like we're missing something.

Tyler, a lot of what you're saying is the same experiences we've had.

 

[Cody@Ei]

Thanks for the advice Frank. We hear you on the "every single state in the union has a guy making steel targets." As I said above, We're not looking to get rich, but would like to establish a steady base of sales to help get cash flow moving for our much more ambitious projects.

I'll check out some of the places you're mentioned.

 

[Lowlight]

The best way to get free advertising is to follow Ryan Brandt's lead, the Trophies are what people see more than anything else

 

[Kopfjager1]

I'd say you have the basic selection of what most people use, after that it's all speciality targets that a limited number of individuals (not ranges or businesses) are going to buy. Id assume most individuals are only wanting to own 1-3 steel targets for personal use. However, offering gongs with the ability to hang using different posts (t posts, galvanized pipe, 2"x4"s, etc), reactive targets and plate racks will be the next most common targets.

Plate racks and plate racks are pretty expensive, and cumbersome to transport if you don't have your own range.

When I've purchased my own steel targets I've looked for overall price, quality of steel, and mounting options which I've switched from standard H style mounts to T posts for ease of emplacing and stability in uneven terrain and windy days. Which I have seen a lot more companies start offering these type of mounts.

 

[JC Steel]

There are tons of guys making targets. We have been at it longer than most. Obviously We take it serious and try to come up with things people will like.
We were some of the first to create a bracket to hang a target from a t post. Now it's a popular way to do things and many people have made variations of it.
We have a few different options which are bullet proof. And that's important to us, we run huge matches where tens of thousands of rounds are sent downrange. We don't do target failures. No time for that!! We simply create a product that will last.

We have over 350,000 pounds of steel in stock. So we can ship out quickly.

Make something that is not on the market. Be creative. But honestly yeah, just a bunch of steel makers out there.

 

[vinconco]

I entered the steel target market a couple years ago www.hangfasttargets.com when I realized the need for a better way to hang the steel plates that EVERYONE was offering. Offering a new shape or etching on a target face will get you a few sales but you will need a lot more than that to get the sales you need to sustain your business.

Before Hang Fast Targets sold it's first plate we designed a unique and innovative method to HANG them. Our hanger and plate design is so simple and easy to use that word of mouth (and an occasional plug on SH) has kept us in business for over two years and counting.

 

[SRSDriver]

I buy my targets from the guys who sponsor the matches I shoot. Targets are all pretty similar, and unless there is something really innovative that I need, the guys who sponsor stuff get my money.

 

[_Windrider_]

i want reactive targets that i can spot hits when shooting alone at 800+ yds. can be poppers, some kind of light (few already coming to market) or something else. cant always rely on sound. Tyler said it as well, most want cheap and cheap can be had locally. make your own stand and you can have targets for 1 tenth of some commercial options. IMHO, if i were bringing a product like this to market, i would focus on mounting solutions and let the end user get their own steel. of course that isnt an option for everyone so there is that as well. but i find that the steel is usually overpriced. but there are some good mounts out there that are worth the money.

 

[427Cobra]

Fast easy set up that works, my first steel target I bought was a Artizen, I like how fast and easy the tripod stand deploys/stows away, but it doesn't work well on hills, my other 2 steel targets are JC Steel round plates with T post hangers, one post cut in half works great

 

[spife7980]

Cheap as possible is the only thing that will sway me to spend more money on targets. I weld up my own stands out of rebar or angle iron as many do so thats a weakened market right there as people can do it their selves.
I can get two 2/3 ipsc for 99 shipped on amazon, can you beat that?

 

[TheGerman]

The #1 thing that makes me not buy someone's steel is that the mounting methods for almost every manufacturer is different. You guys really need to go have a conference in Vegas once or something and standardize the fucking mounts. Also, stop making the mounts different for every different type of plate.

So basically, I decided to go with Brand A's plates and mounting system. Now if I want to buy Brand B's plates, I now have to buy their proprietary mounting system as well; which also rarely fits onto the same poles/blocks/whatever that Brand A's does. It gets really annoying, really fast.

Make IPSC full and reduced sized silhouettes/iron maidens. Then make a ton of rounds/squares in 2 inch increments. Have an intuitive mounting system that either goes on a those green fence posts you can find at any Home Depot in the world, or a 2x4. Keep it simple.

Other than that, price as well as shipping. There's a ton of market data out there on this; don't be the guy that undercuts everyone by $5 on plates and then does the faggot Ebay strategy of making up for it and then some in shipping.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

There are tons of guys making targets. We have been at it longer than most. Obviously We take it serious and try to come up with things people will like.
We were some of the first to create a bracket to hang a target from a t post. Now it's a popular way to do things and many people have made variations of it.
We have a few different options which are bullet proof. And that's important to us, we run huge matches where tens of thousands of rounds are sent downrange. We don't do target failures. No time for that!! We simply create a product that will last.

We have over 350,000 pounds of steel in stock. So we can ship out quickly.

Make something that is not on the market. Be creative. But honestly yeah, just a bunch of steel makers out there.

That is an absolute TON of targets if they are already cut up!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

That is an absolute TON of targets if they are already cut up!

It's actually 175 tons, but you were close...

 

[tnichols]

Along with the reasons listed above, keep in mind that you are selling a product that does not wear out. Can't say that about many consumer items. The only steel that I can think of needing replacement would be steel hung at a public range, and we know it died because of abuse. Proper/actual AR500 hung at the correct distance should last forever.

 

[vinconco]

The #1 thing that makes me not buy someone's steel is that the mounting methods for almost every manufacturer is different. You guys really need to go have a conference in Vegas once or something and standardize the fucking mounts. Also, stop making the mounts different for every different type of plate.

So basically, I decided to go with Brand A's plates and mounting system. Now if I want to buy Brand B's plates, I now have to buy their proprietary mounting system as well; which also rarely fits onto the same poles/blocks/whatever that Brand A's does. It gets really annoying, really fast.

Make IPSC full and reduced sized silhouettes/iron maidens. Then make a ton of rounds/squares in 2 inch increments. Have an intuitive mounting system that either goes on a those green fence posts you can find at any Home Depot in the world, or a 2x4. Keep it simple.

Other than that, price as well as shipping. There's a ton of market data out there on this; don't be the guy that undercuts everyone by $5 on plates and then does the faggot Ebay strategy of making up for it and then some in shipping.[/QUOT



Most of the cheap and "price war" plates have the holes located in a way that makes proper mounting difficult.... unless you like exposed chains, straps and rebar stands.

I started with a new sheet of paper and designed a hanging system FIRST that would be easy to set up and versatile enough to use in multiple ways. Our system allows the steel to be set at a back angle and remain extremely reactive without welded brackets simply by proper placement of the plate hole and gravity. Multiple plates can be installed on the same T Post. Plates can be hung with a short chain section or just the bolt.... on the same hanger.

Our shipping is ALWAYS $18.55 / order no matter how large. We ship SAME DAY if the order is placed before 12 pm Eastern time.
We have always offered a 10% DISCOUNT TO SNIPERSHIDE use code: SNIPERSHIDE10

See for yourself at HANG FAST TARGETS

 

[flyfisher117]

I'm by no means an expert but what I see is a flooded market. You can now buy AR500 plates at Walmart.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[JC Steel]

I buy my targets from the guys who sponsor the matches I shoot. Targets are all pretty similar, and unless there is something really innovative that I need, the guys who sponsor stuff get my money.

Yep support those who support the shooters!!

 

[delfuego]

Shameless plug for AA Targets out of Colorado. Good people and great, super durable targets. We have been using these out here for a very long time. They are not the cheapest but are the worth it.

JC Steel is another great option. Nicest guy in the business and great prices. I love JC Steel Poppers!

 

[JC Steel]

Shameless plug for AA Targets out of Colorado. Good people and great, super durable targets. We have been using these out here for a very long time. They are not the cheapest but are the worth it.

JC Steel is another great option. Nicest guy in the business and great prices. I love JC Steel Poppers!

Thanks del, we appreciate that!

 

[vinconco]

Fast easy set up that works, my first steel target I bought was a Artizen, I like how fast and easy the tripod stand deploys/stows away, but it doesn't work well on hills, my other 2 steel targets are JC Steel round plates with T post hangers, one post cut in half works great

HangFast has designed a stand that works on hillsides and uses a T Post. Of course the T post will work on the hill by itself but if for some reason you cannot pound one in then we have the solution.
This stand has 3/8" Armor Plate on the front and NO WELDS
Also accepts firring strips
https://hangfasttargets.com/t/t-post-stand

 

[Sportin Wood]

I agree with those who buy from match sponsors, and not only steel products. Like Jake said, support those who support us shooters!

 

[Fursniper]

HangFast has designed a stand that works on hillsides and uses a T Post. Of course the T post will work on the hill by itself but if for some reason you cannot pound one in then we have the solution.
This stand has 3/8" Armor Plate on the front and NO WELDS
Also accepts firring strips
https://hangfasttargets.com/t/t-post-stand

Now THAT is a great idea!

 

[Diver160651]

The #1 thing that makes me not buy someone's steel is that the mounting methods for almost every manufacturer is different. You guys really need to go have a conference in Vegas once or something and standardize the fucking mounts. Also, stop making the mounts different for every different type of plate.

QUOTE=JC Steel;n6637193]
We were some of the first to create a bracket to hang a target from a t post. . [/QUOTE]

Good points

I have several JC Steel Targets and also some of the Hang Fast Targets.. The T-post mounts are the way to go until you get to really large targets for an ELR i.e. 24" square.. here a frame might help keep the larger plate square.

JC makes some great interactive targets that also use T-Posts like their 66% ISP.. you can see both combines T-post sis by side here.. First one is 66% JC second camera is on the HangFast ISP at 900 https://youtu.be/gWz7wL4jqg8

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^ How do you verify the target plate is "square" to the firing position @ 1 mile ?? That in itself would seem like a serious source of error in reducing the apparent width / height of the target surface if it is bladed in any manner towards the shooter.

 

[Fursniper]

^^ How do you verify the target plate is "square" to the firing position @ 1 mile ?? That in itself would seem like a serious source of error in reducing the apparent width / height of the target surface if it is bladed in any manner towards the shooter.

Just look back at your shooting position & square it up. Pretty much takes care of it. If you're worried about an inch or two in the verticle or horizontal, well, get a bigger target!

 

[Fursniper]

Ya, not always so easy. Depending on where the FFP is or will end up, we often get twisted. Mostly because you can’t always easily identify the field firing position from the target.

if you can drive to the FFP and have several vehicles it gets easier by leaving one there as you set the targets. Otherwise another possible choice is to use LOS on some feature behind the FFP (from the FFP) and to the target prospect then when setting the plates face the item you used earlier.

I've always found it relatively simple to leave some sort of "sighting device" (pickup truck, large white painted rock, white target on a stand, etc, to determine LOS back to the firing position, I just can't imagine why this would be difficult to achieve. We drive targets out to as far as 3000 yds over very rough terrain & have never had a problem getting targets aligned and we all shoot all over the state. I can't imagine trying to set targets up without a reference point to your FFP, who or why would someone do that?

 

[_Windrider_]

Why have them perfectly square? You'll test your fundamentals more if the targets aren't perfectly hung.

 

[Fursniper]

We are saying the same thing. I was referencing your earlier post.. You need to do more than just look back.. that is my point. We've ended up twisted when we end up hiking to FFPs that have hard reference points and no vehicles.

Also for those thinks, it just makes it harder, sure; but it can also mess with the frag signatures that can be hard to see anyway.

BTW For those that haven't done this - here is what the FFPs can look like from the target-- Image is from the ELR target cam info I posted some time ago

What is that, the Sahara desert, lol?!

 

[Ledzep]

A small, bulletproof, light weight (relatively) method to stand plates on the ground would make me happy. Maybe something akin to a football tee out of 1/4" Ar500 to put IPSC plates or bigger squares/rectangles on the ground.

I shoot on public grasslands so I don't typically like loading T posts or wooden beams or assloads of rebar each trip out. Something simple to just throw down 3-5 plates at various ranges and doesn't take up a ton of space.

 

[Ledzep]

Usually I place my targets in the middle of hills and aim for patches of dirt if I can. I haven't had a day yet where I couldn't see one of my plates, or where I couldn't at least find a place where my plates were visible.

This is my crude MS Paint drawing of what I'd like.

 

[vinconco]

Usually I place my targets in the middle of hills and aim for patches of dirt if I can. I haven't had a day yet where I couldn't see one of my plates, or where I couldn't at least find a place where my plates were visible.

This is my crude MS Paint drawing of what I'd like.

Unless constructed out of AR500 this design would sustain enough bullet damage to render it inoperative in a short amount of time. It would also ricochet bullet spall back in the direction of the shooter.

What is wrong with T Posts? They certainly cost less and are much more versatile in varied terrain.

 

[Ledzep]

T posts have been my least favorite. Pounding them in sucks (rocks). I haven't had good mounts, either so tight I have to grind/file or so loosey goosey they wobble around and break stuff. The posts themselves get mangled, jagged, and muddy and I have to toss them into my SUV interior...

I have a couple of Salute target spring-loaded bases that are similar in function to what I've drawn up there, but are way more complicated, heavy, and expensive than they need to be. They are my favorites, though. Toss down the base, plug in the target, and on to the next. Completely painless.

 

[Kopfjager1]

T-post mounts have been the only reliable mounts thus far, for me at least. All target stands are going to get mangled, Ive cut myself quite a few times from shot up steel posts and a few weeks ago I cut my hand with a copper jacket embedded in a stand made from 2x4s. Theres pros and cons to all forms of stands, but I think for uneven terrain the T-post is the best option.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Our t-posts mounts are a best seller. Simple, super rugged, springloaded for loud targets, etc. We use Grade 8 hardware, down to the carriage bolt (which is expensive haha). However driving them in to rocky ground sucks. We'll be making a t-post.....stand for lack of a better word.

 

[flyer1a]

I have a bunch of random steel, I started liking my setup more when I moved to all single-hole targets. Takes spacing out of the equation. All I have to keep in kit is a bag of nuts/bolts/springs and a crescent wrench, almost all of my mounts (MKM, HangFast, X-Steel) work just fine. Innovation in this market gets really expensive though because of shipping.

 

[vinconco]

Multiple targets on the same T post using no tools. Gravity holds the plates / hangers in place no problem. Thousands sold
http://hangfasttargets.com

 

[vinconco]

We have the only T Post STAND on the market and the ONLY fully adjustable for TERRAIN stand on the market as well.
This stand will support heavy and reactive targets on steep hillsides or rough terrain.
Adjusting the T post to PLUMB will center the mass directly over the base eliminating tip over.
FRONT AR500 3/8" ARMOR INCLUDED
No welded parts
Firring strip holders available
Replacement parts available.
All Grade 8 heavy duty hardware
Powder Coated heavy texture.
https://hangfasttargets.com/t/t-post-stand