what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

as of today today... Sinclair is at $0.90 per 300 grain Scenar, and PowderValley is at $0.70 per same. Big price difference.

Would be nice if someone published a statistically valid test of 300 Scenar vs SMK at say 1500 yards.

 

[Enough Said]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Was getting good accuracy and thought I had it all worked out...

Then a buddy let me borrow his DVD put out by Defensive Edge on reloading for the .338 Edge. I have a Lapua, but there is a WEALTH of knowledge in that vid.

Check it out if you can.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

interesting... thanks for the pointer. My 338 reloading process is pretty simple. Accuracy could be better at a mile, but I blame that on windage.

 

[George63]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

I can load a 300 SMK - H1000 - pro rated brass for .95 add .35 for barrel wear so 1.30

 

[Chiller]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GrayMatterSplatter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Cali_tz I will have to disagree with you. I have and can keep making that shot. To be good at anything one must practice. And Ive been doing my fair share of it. Sure wind always comes into factor, spin drift, temp, humidity, rifle cant, mild corialis effect at that distance. But if you practice it and know your loads and can read all the other factors your "chances" become skill. Thats just my opinion. Im comfortable making those shots.

My Load: Lapua Brass, CCI 250, Hornaday 285gr BTHP Match,92.1gr of Retumbo. Have not chronoed but should be around 2725fps

I dont use ballistic software because it cant read conditions like a human. What I have used has been known to be off at distances. I do carry a Kestrel though. </div></div>

MAD skillz I tell ya....MAD

 

[mcfred]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

What I've been using to play with the 338/300 RUM (edge):

$0.52 300gr SMK
$0.03 russian primer
$0.09 860 surplus BMG powder
$0.11 300 RUM case / 9? (first set is still going...)
-$0.02 scrap brass is going for $1.75 a pound
-----------
$0.73






...and being a RUM the gun is relatively cheap too.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

case neck to case body concentricity .002 or under = good bullet runnout = good bore alignment. Good powder that has a consistant burn rate and preasure for a constant velocety. A primer seated at same depth every time for consistant ignition. Then a good BC on bullet makes it stay good for longer distance. The rest is up to your barrel and your flinch pulling the trigger.

Seems like the price of reloading is like anything els the more bulk you buy the cheaper it is. With the 338 lapua I would for sure use Lapua brass, test the rest for your self to know for sure but that paper way out in the field with holes in it only tells the truth.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Seems like the most important factor is very consistent MVs... then perfectly consistent bullet form factor would be next. My MVs vary quite a bit considering I load to exactly 92.0 grains, counting each grain of N570 at the end of the pour. However, since my scale, my chron, etc. all have measurement error, who knows what is really the situation. Ideally we'd be able to rent a high end chron that would truly within 1-2fps tell us what our MVs are. Then a scale that has tighter uncertainty than my RCBS 1500 scale.

 

[0481]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

That's why I use a beam scale.

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Using a Sartorius scale, Omega trickler and just weighing bullets gets me to an ES of 20 +/-. I'm able weigh my loads to +/- .02 grains though. Literally down to 1 kernel of powder.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

according to my RCBS 1500 most N570 kernels (quite large) weigh approx 0.1 grain each. I can remove them one by one and the weight will go down 0.1 grains most trials.

ES of 20 is very nice. What the heck does it take to get to 10fps if you are going to such lengths?

 

[knife edge]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Probably neck tension, weighing brass and keeping common the number of reloads per type of brass to name a few. More than I care to deal with. I did switch to Redding carbide neck sizing dies and shaved about 8'/sec of error off the ES from doing absolutely nothing previously. The guys shooting 1-10 ES are extremely knowledgeable and meticulous, wish I was one of them.

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

I do use Redding Bushing dies and only neck size to .001 smaller than the loaded round. Not sure if that helps much.

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cali_tz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">according to my RCBS 1500 most N570 kernels (quite large) weigh approx 0.1 grain each. I can remove them one by one and the weight will go down 0.1 grains most trials.

ES of 20 is very nice. What the heck does it take to get to 10fps if you are going to such lengths? </div></div>

That RCBS scale only goes down to .1 grains correct. If so then 1 kernel can actually weigh .05 and you will read .1 on the scale depending on how it's set. I'm able to go down to .01 so that .1 grain kernel on your scale may actually be .05 +/- depending on the actual variance of each kernel. Your load of say 90.1 may actually be 90.04 on my scale. Add into it your scales margin of error on each weighing and you may have a larger variance in your powder charge than you think.

edt: Having said all that. I've never weighed N570 so I have now clue how much 1 kernel weighs. lol

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Layton, yes totally agreed, that is what I am saying above. The powder scale tolerance and the chron tolerance stack up so that I don't really know too precisely what my MV is, and the the ES is. I do try to average out the error on the MV by taking more samples and averaging to get an MV... assuming the chron error is gaussian, then I think this is a valid approach.

And yes, I wish I could be super detailed about reloading, turning necks, weighing cases (I did that once and did get superior results)... but we just don't have infinite time.

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

That about as detailed as I'm getting. lol, I just don't have the time either nor patience I don't think.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

yep yep on the neck tension, I forgot to mention that but that is why I use the rcbs gold metal bushing die with no expander ball so it is the same everytime. Very important

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

why does getting rid of the expander ball make neck tension more consistent?

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

well, what I mean is. If the expander ball coming out messes up the concentricity of neck then the tension will not be equal around the bullet. But from what I get out of the bushing is. Your taking into consideration the thickness of brass and order the exact bushing you need, even as you brass gets thinner, so that your not getting too much tension when sizing then pulling a expander back through to get it correct. Im not saying its the best way for everyone but when i measure with my concentricity gage between regulare expander ball die and the gold metal bushing die there is no comparision. The other day I loaded some 300gr bergers and had a bullet runnout of .0015. Dont take me the wrong way im just trying to share what I have learned that has helped me the most.

A video that helped me alot to finish understanding things was. Redding Advanced Handloading Beyond The Basics DVD,

Id have to say I like the rcbs bushing die set rather than redding's in the video just b/c of the bullet seating die of rcbs. It has that window in the side of it to set the bullet so that the bullet is inline with the case before you start seating it. So you dont mess up your concentricity, plus you dont have to mess with setting the bullet and balancing it on top of brass while you seat it.

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Same here. I use a Redding bushing die with no expander ball and a busing .001 smaller than the loaded round. Seems to work for me. I use Lapua brass also.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

top of the morning to ya layton

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

when I do my bullet seating I notice variation in force needed to seat the bullets. Which I attribute to neck tension differences. And that probably is leading to MV variations. Not sure what is causing brass in the same lot to vary like this. I guess the only reason could be different neck wall thicknesses among the cases.

It would be an interesting experiment to pull the ball out and see what happens with my setup. It would be nice if there was some strain gauge insert which could measure neck tension...

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longdistance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">top of the morning to ya layton </div></div>

Good Mornin!!

edt: and I just realized that I repeated myself on a previous post. I loose track when threads run more a day. lol

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

where you at in texas Layton?

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Houston

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

yes sir, that is correct. They talk on that in that video, and yes they do make a tool for wall thickness. There is even time when you can have good concentricity on the outside and then have wall thicker on one side than the other. Then the bullet will be cocked to one side and give you bad bullet runnout, witch is bad for the bullet to bore alignment. just watch out with taking expander ball out of normal die b/c the tension may be to much. Also on a bushing die, the bushing that is sizing the neck is free floting just a little bit so that it aligns to case. So it will still be differant than the normal die. Im sure you already understand this, just didnt want to misslead you.
well, time for me to go climb a wind turbine

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

I wondered where the blades were going to I see on trucks moving out of here almost daily.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

ya all of our are from the port of Huston, but they all came about 6 years ago. Im sure there are many more though.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

ya, like a bullet that was a guage for preasure like those impact things the put on the dummys they drop and through around on mith busters. I guess untill then we will just have to measure bullet diamiter and wall thickness.

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Yes I think this neck tension is one of the most difficult parameters to control for reloading of precision cartridges. I could see that we weigh cases, bullets, powder carefully. But varying amount of neck tension causes the powder burn and pressure curve to vary, thus causing the ES and SD to be hard to minimize.

Checking my Shooter tables, a 20fps variance at the muzzle will change the 1800 yard hit by 20" in height.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

10-4 on my crony for my 338LM. I shot 2 sets of 6 on two differant days. One at around 95 digree outside and other around 60. There was not any derferance between and there was only 4fps differance from lowest to highest and 3 of them were the same on one and 4 were the same on the other day.

I think its also good to shoot all of your brass equal times between reloading so you dont get a differance in thickness.

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longdistance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I think its also good to shoot all of your brass equal times between reloading so you dont get a differance in thickness. </div></div>

Yep.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

how do you pull out a part of comment like that and reply to it?

 

[Layton]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

Click on quote below the post you want to quote, highlight the part of the post you want to delete between the

brackets and delete. Make sure you leave the

at each end.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Layton</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Click on quote below </div></div>


cool, thanks

 

[cali_tz]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: longdistance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">10-4 on my crony for my 338LM. I shot 2 sets of 6 on two differant days. One at around 95 digree outside and other around 60. There was not any derferance between and there was only 4fps differance from lowest to highest and 3 of them were the same on one and 4 were the same on the other day.

I think its also good to shoot all of your brass equal times between reloading so you dont get a differance in thickness. </div></div>

wait you are saying your ES (extreme spread) was only 4fps, on six shots? That is amazingly low... what kind of chron are you using? I use the CED chron and if I was to get an ES of 20FPS I would be happy, leave alone 10 or 5.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

from cabelas, its called Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital Chronograph.
yes sir, I was very happy with it and thats why I did it again for the same reason your saying.lol But Iv done it a 3rd time sence then and same thing.

Thats what im saying though, I think bore alignment and neck tension can affect this greatly. Just think if bullet runnout is not good then your barrel has to straitin it out and doing that would make one slower/faster than the other. And then the same for more or less tension holding onto bullet.

 

[hooksz86]

Re: what does 338 LM end up costing if you handload

it was even in over cast weather so zero sun light reflections were affecting it. That may be what your getting too.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/sid=66...the-Basics-DVD?

Check this DVD out, I know you know what your doing budy, you have ansured a bunch my questions on here. I just leared a lot from this dvd. Id say I have learned all I know about LR shooting and loading form close friends, this forum, that DVD, and trial and error.