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What happened to using a sling?

#51
I rarely think of the sling in use offhand.

I more often think of the sling in use "High Power" style where its off hand use is prohibited.

My mind knows though that a "hasty sling" can benefit in practical applications.
 
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#56
308pirate said:
This thread is giving me the itch to go build an A4 service rifle and slap on it that Steiner P4Xi that I got for less than $500 at Optics Planet today
Click to expand...

The way things are going, a rifle like that might come in handy. Though, you might want to go AR10 with it to take advantage of the scope and available ammo.
 
#58
kindabitey said:
What ever happened to using a sling as a way to brace a rifle when shooting? My stepdad taught me to use one as a kid (late 70's), and we used them to a small degree when qualifying when I was with the Seabees (late 80's). I've only seen folks with a tripod use one, and then, very rarely.
Click to expand...
Simple answer... it requires significant effort in training to develop the necessary skill set to use one effectively. And it's definitely a perishable skill but once well-learned it's basically like riding a bike.

I've found that shooting from the bipod is simply too easy. I've been using a sling almost exclusively for more than a decade. Nothing more relaxing than being locked in with a sling and having to force yourself to relax physically and mentally to shoot consistently.
 
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#59
Just a little update. I took a 4 day PR101 class with Caylen and Phil with Modern Day Sniper. Caylen touched on the use of a sling from a positional
standpoint. I'm working with one now, in the manner he showed us. It's going to take a bit of practice, but I think it'll be worth the effort.
 
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#60
Replaced by steel weight kits, tripods, and sand bags.

I still have one on my rifle but the PRS/NRL courses of fire don't typically lend to their use. Very occasional positional stages where they help. Some application in practical shooting/hunting. Mostly at home on the square range.
 
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#61
The people I shoot with have a little chant, "The shot is rarely taken from the prone". And, therefore, we learned to sling up and shoot comfortably in all sorts of positions - standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, supported and unsupported, etc. In the class I took in August, the last half day was an practical exam. On the first problem, I tried to shoot from a bipod and it was a mistake. The position was on a big pile of broken concrete, crummy position, multiple targets, limited time. After each shot the bipod hopped around and I spent a bunch of time repositioning the weapon so not all targets were neutralized. I should have shot off my backpack using the sling to stabilize the weapon. My shots would have been more accurate and faster. Live and learn. The tie-breaker was fired standing, 375 yards, steel silhouette, precision rifle. According to the instructors, both professionals, these things happen in real life and, by the way, it was hugely entertaining for both of them.
 
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#62
I still much prefer a single point sling for prone. I think they are far more versatile than a bipod.
however the current pack of bipods are far more configurable than the old ones. I think they are quite a bit slower than a sling though.
 
#65
bax said:
The people I shoot with have a little chant, "The shot is rarely taken from the prone". And, therefore, we learned to sling up and shoot comfortably in all sorts of positions - standing, sitting, kneeling, prone, supported and unsupported, etc. In the class I took in August, the last half day was an practical exam. On the first problem, I tried to shoot from a bipod and it was a mistake. The position was on a big pile of broken concrete, crummy position, multiple targets, limited time. After each shot the bipod hopped around and I spent a bunch of time repositioning the weapon so not all targets were neutralized. I should have shot off my backpack using the sling to stabilize the weapon. My shots would have been more accurate and faster. Live and learn. The tie-breaker was fired standing, 375 yards, steel silhouette, precision rifle. According to the instructors, both professionals, these things happen in real life and, by the way, it was hugely entertaining for both of them.
Click to expand...
I had something similar happen at a match at Thunder Valley years ago. Plates about 350 yards down a hill. No props or nothing. Just the ground grass and you. I plopped down and immediately all I see is grass thru the scope. Rather than fuck around in prone I sat down in a textbook crossed ankle sitting, opened up the arm loop of my TIS sling and went three for three.

This was before PRS was a thing and no one in my squad had ever seen anyone do anything like it. It helped that I was actively shooting Service Rifle at the time with a master classification.
 
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#68
I'm not doing any of the long range shooting most of you are. Most of my shooting is hunting. For that I like using a sling. It helps tame the jump of a sub 7 pound 30-06 nicely. I recently picked up a Rifle Craft RS3 and I'm really liking it.

To me a sling is one more tool to be applied when appropriate.
 
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#69
I learned C/F shooting in the USMC with an M-14 (and M-1), iron sights and a loop sling, then picked up after with NRA N/M Highpower positional shooting, also Iron sights and sling. It was only after going with bench shooting off the bipod with scopes that I stopped using the sling on a regular basis. But during that transition period, I found that I could generally shoot as well with either system. There's more to it than the basic support system.

Then, as an attempt to "find truth" in the era of The Grand SH Bipod Hop Debate, I started using the sling with the bipods; but differently, so the sling supported the elbow just above the supporting surface and applied most of the upper body weight to work hold the rifle down onto the bipod and counteract bipod hop. It worked in a very positive manner; so much so that it became common to be able to pick up trace and follow it into the target. I did not invent the technique, and have heard vague references to it being taught at Army MTU, which I can neither confirm or deny.

But works. For me.

It also runs counter to LL's body alignment recoil control technique, and I tell you right now, I recommend his method over this one. I simply offer this way as an alternative.

Greg
 
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#70
Greg Langelius * said:
I learned C/F shooting in the USMC with an M-14 (and M-1), iron sights and a loop sling, then picked up after with NRA N/M Highpower positional shooting, also Iron sights and sling. It was only after going with bench shooting off the bipod with scopes that I stopped using the sling on a regular basis. But during that transition period, I found that I could generally shoot as well with either system. There's more to it than the basic support system.

Then, as an attempt to "find truth" in the era of The Grand SH Bipod Hop Debate, I started using the sling with the bipods; but differently, so the sling supported the elbow just above the supporting surface and applied most of the upper body weight to work hold the rifle down onto the bipod and counteract bipod hop. It worked in a very positive manner; so much so that it became common to be able to pick up trace and follow it into the target. I did not invent the technique, and have heard vague references to it being taught at Army MTU, which I can neither confirm or deny.

But works. For me.

It also runs counter to LL's body alignment recoil control technique, and I tell you right now, I recommend his method over this one. I simply offer this way as an alternative.

Greg
Click to expand...

I'm trying to visualize this. Pictures please.
 
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#71
They always ask for pictures... I the twenty years I've been on this site, I've never even once posted a picture.

1) Set up the rifle so that it is supported by the bipod and rear bag, with the sling attached fore and aft to the rifle in the 'parade sling' arrangement. Leave enough slack so that when pressed down, it goes down, but still remains about 1" or so above the supporting surface.

2) Address the rifle, straight behind it as directed by LL, but pass the non-trigger hand between the sling and rifle, above the sling.

3) Reach back and grasp the rear bag/butt, leaning down onto the sling with the elbow. Relax completely, allowing the sling to support the elbow just clear of the ground. The sling should support the entire upper body weight, anchoring the rifle down onto the bipod. Preload the bipod as usual. Set up the sight picture and fire the shot as normal, but ensure that you permit follow through. Once the shot is set up, the NPA is locked in. There should be NO bipod hop and the target should remain within the scope's field of view. Stay ON the scope..., watch the target..., the trace will appear about halfway out, high, and arc down into the target.

A key advantage of this approach is that it reduces equipment weight, allowing the rifle to be weighted by the body's weight, without needing to add weights to the rifle that make the rifle overly heavy by itself. In essence, a lighter weight rifle an be set up to perform like the heavier one. But it will do nothing to asorb recoil the way added mass can, and is not suited to free recoil techiques.

It will seem odd and take some getting used to. Some can't, and if that's you, I advise abandoning the technique and staying precisely with LL's procedures. This technique is intended as a supplement to his recoil management technique, and is not meant in any way to contradict any of his instructions.

Greg
 
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#72
On the counts of:
1)
Still using archaic sling practices/techniques on rifle, for aimed shots
2)
Using archaic magnetic compass and paper maps for navigation. Often pouring scorn on nubs that only use electrickery of GPS.
Inclusive in above charge, is awareness of "Night Sky" for navigation.
3)
Using pack as rifle rest, instead of latest carbon fibre/ alien reverse engineered, gimmicky doodah.
4)
Wearing archaic DPM smock, instead of latest camo pattern available.
5)
Living out of aforementioned pack, instead of retiring to Taj Mahal tent village each night.
6)
Referring to boots as "Leather Personnel Carriers" and also employing LPC's for distances longer than car park to shooters bay at local range.
Verdict: Guilty as charged

And fucken loving it!

Long Live The Dinosaurs!
 
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#73
Just my $.02, Slings and Sling techniques are just a good tool in the tool box. I think the secret is like using any tool, is when and for what job.
I like and shoot Service rifle, where I learned to use a Sling. I also grew up in the Army of the 80's/90's and early 2000's and saw the progression of marksmanship and how it's taught.
I think slings are always going to be around. I can take my Favorite AR sling (A Blue Force Gear VCAS) and use it to carry my AR in a more modern style and use it to transition for long gun to Pistol. I can also use it as a hasty sling if I need to make a longer shot.

But again, each scenario and shot will dictate if and how I use it, or if I just brace it on a something. Like most things in shooting, there are many ways to skin a cat.
 
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#75
I think it's an extremely valuable tool to have on your rifle and to know how to use! I have Turner all-weather slings on each rifle. Weather I carry it to go hunting, or for an NRA high power match with my NM AR & M1A, it's all I use. I was taught that they were the only type of sling you need to use to carry or to shoot with. I can't argue with it....Because it works. :)
 
#76
Phil McGrath said:
No not that guy, the guy that designed the sling as in the 1907 sling was Col. Wright USA. this according too shooting historian Hap Rocketto.
Click to expand...


I hear a lot of chatter that these are an even better sling than the 1907.

M1923 Sling American Made RCI Starlite AFC

M1923 Sling American Made RCI Starlite AFC - Beautiful reproduction of the WWII M1923 Rifle Sling made for the Thompson Submachine gun garand and many other rifles. This is the top of the line in slings during WWII and had many uses to them. Made right on loaction of the American Fabrics compan...
www.starlitedrums.com

Guessing they never gained traction due their cloth construction when Leather was an alternative.
 
#77
kindabitey said:
Just a little update. I took a 4 day PR101 class with Caylen and Phil with Modern Day Sniper. Caylen touched on the use of a sling from a positional
standpoint. I'm working with one now, in the manner he showed us. It's going to take a bit of practice, but I think it'll be worth the effort.
Click to expand...

@kindabitey: Did he say which sling he prefers these days?
 
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#81
Dobermann said:
Still?

Reason I asked is I'd found an old thread here (from circa 2013?) where he said he was using the MS-1, and I thought surely he must have shifted to something else, given all of the different designs that have come since. Interesting.
Click to expand...
It has to do with the sliding buckle on the MS1. Don’t know if he was in on the design when he was at Magpul.
 
#82
Since this zombie thread keeps popping up, I'll add my 2 cents wroth.

I'm not a long range guy. I've never shot beyond 500 yards and only occasionally beyond 300 yards. I do however hunt. A lot. I also use a sling a lot. I can't imagine not having a proper loop sling on a hunting rifle. No, not a carry strap... a sling. My preference is a Ching sling but the Rhodesian works as well.

The Ching or Rhodesian isn't for off-hand shooting. It is for supported positions such as sitting, kneeling or prone. It is MUCH faster and more handy than a bipod or tripod. It isn't as stable either but at ranges below 300 at deer sized targets, that doesn't matter.

The advantage of the Ching/Rhodesian (or CW for that matter) is the speed at which one can loop up. There are carry methods that speed this up even more as I demonstrate here:

The Magpul RLS looks like a good choice as well, but I have not personally used it. It is a real loop sling that allows one to get into it VERY quickly.
 
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