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What if I forget to load the propellant?

Ishallbie O'Cullkillin

Ishallbie O'Cullkillin

Central Coastranger
Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 18, 2007
445
4
57
Oregon
#1
I've been handloading for 8yrs now, and usually in mass quantities, when I'm not load testing. While measuring charges for some 55gr .223 rounds, I made a random check on a 50rd tray of charged cases, half of which had already been loaded with a projectile, when I noticed that I had missed charging one of the cases. I do not consistently check every tray after charging, but try to make it a point to do so, and have quite often. In 8 years, this is the first time I ever found a missed case.
So now I gotta know...Anybody ever fire a round minus the propellant in their AR15 to see how far down the barrel the bullet goes? I've always been supremely confident of my handloads, as I let my kids shoot them, but now I have a blemished record. Do I need to find a priest and be excorcised?
 
#2
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

No you need to weight every single round and pull the "light" ones to get them off the line up.

John
 
#3
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So now I gotta know...Anybody ever fire a round minus the propellant in their AR15 to see how far down the barrel the bullet goes? </div></div>

Never done exactly that, I'm not an AR fan and I don't play with them anymore. I HAVE done it in only one rifle, my 243AI. Nothing happened, the primer popped and that was it. I ejected the full cartridge and felt like like a dumbass.
 
#4
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Ok John, I haven't read enough of your posts to know if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'm going to take you seriously. I'm about 400 rounds in, and will do it just so I can gain back my confidence.
 
#5
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I've had two squib pistol loads out of around 40,000 handloads. Goes about 3/4 way down 5-inch 45 barrel.
 
#6
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AlcoholicusRex</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok John, I haven't read enough of your posts to know if you're being sarcastic or not, so I'm going to take you seriously. I'm about 400 rounds in, and will do it just so I can gain back my confidence. </div></div>

I don't think he is being sarcastic, makes sense to me. I would rather find out by checking the weight of all the rounds vs trying to get a lodged bullet out of a barrel.
 
#9
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

My Buddy has collets, and it's saved my bacon more than once.

For just one or two, I use an inertia puller. Taught me a lesson about whether or not crimping makes sense. For me, no longer.

Plastic tip bullets, tight neck tension, and intertia pullers are a bad combination. The tips get mashed. I learned to stuff the bottom of the puller cavity with cotton, but even then, it's still a mess.

Greg
 
#10
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I had a squib once in my AR. Went about 2 inches down the bore and stock. Had to heat the barrel with a propane torch and knock it out with a steel rod. I ended up messing up the crown in the process and had to re-crown the rifle. My suggestion is check every one before you seat the bullet from now on. And weighing them all to see which are light is a very good idea.
 
#11
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Happened to me once when I was expermenting with reduced loads. I had so little powder in the case that it did not ignite. The bullet seated itself in the lands sort of hard but a small tap with a cleaning rod knocked it loose.
 
#12
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I did it in my 06 and a LR Mag primer. It was enough to stick the 178 Amax in the throat adn I had to knock it out from the muzzle with a brass rod.

The action won't cycle if you fire it, there's no chance of you putting another round in the pipe and blowing the thing up.

You should take each of those rounds and put them on the scale to see where they weigh out, just to make sure you got 'em all.

I keep a little LED flashlight on my bench and I check all 50 cases in the loading tray before stuffing bullets.

100% QC is the only way to go when you have control over the assembly process.
 
#13
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I've always done what bohem does and make a visual check of every round in my tray before seating anything on top. I think regardless of what powder you are using, it should be pretty obvious if you duffed one. It's saved my bacon more than once.
 
#14
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I would have to say that this situation is one my biggest fears and that I why I spend time looking at my cases to ensure there is powder in them before I go any further. I have a Dillon 550B and I guess I could use it as Progressive as I do when I am loading pistols but rifles are different. I spend extra time checking and rechecking to ensure I have it right. As Greg said, you learned a lesson and now you have to figure out how you will correct for the future.

I do have a funny Dillon story from a friend of mine...he used to load on his Dillon and do other things but leave the cases in the reloader. His young daughter would come talk to him while he was working and she would use the handle of the Dillon to prop herself up on. While doing this she would accidentally release some powder into the cases. He didn't notice it until he was at the range and shooting his pistol. It blew the magazine out of the well and his pistol grips fell off. When he was loading again one day he saw his daughter playing with the handle and it dawned to him that she was releasing powder into the cases. Needless to day he didn't leave cases in the Dillon while doing other things.
 
#15
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I've done it with my .40. The squib was pretty obvious and we later knocked it out with a wooden dowell.

I would have to disagree with the statement about there being no chance of you putting another round in the pipe and the thing blowing up. The action will not cycle in an AR with a squib, but if you didn't know any better and were using a bolt action or an AR, all you would have to do is chamber another round and try to fire it and your gun would blow up in your face. I've seen a video of a guy do just that.
 
#16
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WASP7067</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've done it with my .40. The squib was pretty obvious and we later knocked it out with a wooden dowell.

I would have to disagree with the statement about there being no chance of you putting another round in the pipe and the thing blowing up. The action will not cycle in an AR with a squib, but if you didn't know any better and were using a bolt action or an AR, all you would have to do is chamber another round and try to fire it and your gun would blow up in your face. I've seen a video of a guy do just that. </div></div>

I'd expect something would dawn on you if there's no recoil or "BOOM" from the bolt gun, but I suppose it could happen.

The 06 squib pushed the bullet just far enough to unseat it from the case, I couldn't chamber another rod if I wanted to.
 
#17
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

That's just it, it would dawn on me, and probably the majority of people on this site, but not everyone. Saying there's no chance, isn't all that accurate. All it takes is a lack of knowledge/attention, and some muscle.
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Here you have 2 guys that didn't know what to listen for, I heard the squib even with the crappy audio, and if that didn't give them the hint, the rifle should have when it wouldn't chamber another round. But just use the good 'ol forward assist a few times and...problem solved! But yes, on a bolt rifle with this same situation, would be a hell of a lot harder without the mechanical advantage of that FA.
 
#18
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I had a problem with my Lee progressive and had this happen in my Glock 21. It's an event that makes you loose a little bit of bowel control because of the potential outcome if it isn't identified. John has the best advise, weigh and pull. I have learned to live the rule that I thought I knew...don't get distracted during loading and slow down, check and double check.
 
#19
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I hae had two, the first was in a savage lrpv in 204. The bullet just got into the lands, did not take much effort to pop the bullet out with a cleaning rod. With the ear pro and the heavy rifle it felt like I was dry firing, I ejected the brass and since it was a single shot and I was slow firing I thought maybe I did not re chamber a new round. Good thing I checked before loading another round. The other time was with a 625 using auto rim brass with 255 gr swc, the bullet got a little further into the rifling, it was obvious what happened. The bullet was harder to get out because it was cast and the lead would deform when banging on it with a cleaning rod. I think keeping a 8 inch piece dowl in the range bag is a good idea as mention by a previous poster, it would work much better than a cleaning rod.
 
#20
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I had had two, the first was in a savage lrpv in 204. The bullet just got into the lands, did not take much effort to pop the bullet out with a cleaning rod. With the ear pro and the heavy rifle it felt like I was dry firing, I ejected the brass and since it was a single shot and I was slow firing I thought maybe I did not re chamber a new round. Good thing I checked before loading another round. The other time was with a 625 using auto rim brass with 255 gr swc, the bullet got a little further into the rifling, it was obvious what happened. The bullet was harder to get out because it was cast and the lead would deform when banging on it with a cleaning rod. I think keeping a 8 inch piece dowl in the range bag is a good idea as mention by a previous poster, it would work much better than a cleaning rod.
 
#21
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Another way to check for squibs. If there's room for the powder in a loaded round to move around,(less than 100% load density), take each round, put it in the small end of a powder funnel. Shake it while your ear is next to the top,large end. The funnel acts like a megaphone, you can clearly hear it, even for my damaged hearing!.
 
#22
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I had 1. Shoved a 168 smk in my 308 into the lands. Just the wieght of my cleaning rid shoved it out.

But will a 45 acp squib cycle an action? Never had one on my sig but have checked the barrel on a few occasions
 
#23
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I've done it once with a .40 Sig. My buddy was shooting it and didn't realize what happened. Because I loaded the ammo I knew as soon as I heard it and we cleared it with a stick. As for happening in an AR, I think it would be easy. If you have been in the military or gone to an AR class, they teach you to rack, tap, and check if you have a misfire. If you instinctively rack a new round behind the stuck projectile, you are going to have a problem. We trained with phase 1 and phase 2 malfunctions and this would get you into trouble if you didn't know it was reloaded ammo and this was a possibility. Be safe, Will
 
#24
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I guess if you load long enough, you'll have a story. Stories beat mishaps, for sure. I let my 550 run out of powder. Fortunately only loaded two rounds before I noticed the level out of sight. Weighed the last 10 rounds loaded, found the light ones, and went from there.

Does attention to detail sound familiar?

Army vets remember RTFQ? Read the load data for RL-15, set up charge for RL-15, put TAC in the dispenser. 2 days later,packing for the range, reviewed the loads posted on the box to discover, box loaded 2.0 grains over max.

S&*$ will happen!
 
#25
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

A .45 ACP with cast bullets will short cycle. Then when you clear it the bullet is far enough in not to interfer with the next round. Then the barrel splits and you're out a match barrel.
 
#26
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I squibbed one on a Ruger .40 when I'd just started reloading about 13 yrs ago. It may have been a light load (was using a Lee Pro 1000 progressive at the time). The cast bullet was about an inch down the tube, but the action cycled and the next round jammed on the bullet. It didn't feel right, but I was doing rapid fire reload drills. It could have been real bad had gone a bit further! Had to hammer it out with a brass rod.
 
#27
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Yeah. I learned that I had damned well better check those trays EVERY time. All ended well. I released a no-bid contract to the little snot slingers that will probably be consuming the ammo. They get 20 bucks for every round that has no propellant in it. Data68 powder only fills about 75% of the case. They shook every last round twice, and found nothing. I feel lucky. They feel robbed. That's what they get for inhaling all the ice cream.
 
#28
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

BTDT

did it with a 168SMK in the .308. The CCI200 primer was barely enough to engrave the bullet into the rifling. It wouldn't feed another round and it was a simple matter to run the cleaning rod down the bore and knock it out.

I went home and weighed every cartridge left from that lot. No other squibs.

Basically if you don't see an impact and the recoil feels strange STOP and check the bore for obstructions.
 
#29
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: McLarenRoss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I had a squib once in my AR. Went about 2 inches down the bore and stock. Had to heat the barrel with a propane torch and knock it out with a steel rod. I ended up messing up the crown in the process and had to re-crown the rifle. <span style="font-weight: bold">My suggestion is check every one before you seat the bullet from now on. And weighing them all to see which are light is a very good idea.</span> </div></div>

I agree.

Saw a guy in a highpower match fire a rapid fire sting 10 rounds. Last shot did not have any powder. when the target came up with 9 hits, looked in the barrel and saw what he did. If he would have fired another round after that, it could have been a very serious problem.
What is you time worth compared to a ruined rifle and maybe injury? Your face is on the stock.

Good luck

Jerry
 
#31
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Weigh them. With an electronic scale a couple of seconds each may save your sight. With pistol in the Dillon, I like to use a powder that nearly fills the case...I visually check each round. With a fast pistol powder, a double or no powder charge may be within the brass/bullet weight tolerances...especially with cast bullets. Shaking won't work under those circumstances. With the rifle I must say that I really prefer loading the powder into the cases in the block and visually checking levels. I have seen a case with a lump of cleaning media stuck to the inside of the case shoulder...big enough to have the standard powder load fill the case to the brim.
That might blow the primer and ruin the rifle. The weight difference was only a couple of grains...again within the weight distribution of some military brass.
 
#32
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Either this or if not a compressed load shake to hear the powder
Bill

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No you need to weight every single round and pull the "light" ones to get them off the line up.

John </div></div>
 
#33
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Since I usually seat bullets while weighing charges, the trays of charged cases will always get checked before seating commences from now on. I have suspected that I had done this before, and had to weigh the rounds due to compressed charges. So far so good. My only mishaps to date have been one overcharged .223(69gr@3200fps, 16" bbl) and once, I ran a 40s&w round thru a Sig P220.
 
#34
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Wasp,

that vid is a perfect example.

-reloading error
-operator error
-thinking error

The guy even recognized there was an ammo issue and still blundered ahead.

I had one I made that was a no charge. A 77 Nosler in a LC case. Rem 7.5 primer IIRC or perhaps a wolf magnum. I heard it pop but not much more than the hammer strike. Ejected round with bullet in place. At the moment I wasn't aware the round lacked powder.

I got home and pulled the bullet and did a "holy shit" there ain't no powder in there. I really expected something else like perhaps a plugged flash hole. I also keep a LED flashlight on the bench to give them a TRIPLE check now. I was rushing the day I made that batch. 23ish years of loading, that was my first that made it to the range.

Another good check is to use 2 loading blocks and you fill the case in one, remove the funnel, inspect the case fill, and then put it in the "charged" block.
 
#36
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

I think what you experienced was Darwin's way of reminding you not to get too comfortable with what you're doing.

I had a incident not too long ago, loaded all the powder in my cases, but noticed after I seated my first round that I didn't put my primers in.
frown.gif


I load on a single stage, and all charges are weighed, and I typically load in small batches, usually no more than 12-15 rounds at a time. When I charge cases, and take them over to the press to seat the bullets, I use my pinky finger to check for a primer (again), and peek inside the case to ensure the powder is there (again), and then seat the bullet. Establishing a routine of check and recheck, and check yet again is a good habit to form, however none of us are perfect, and occasionally an unseen soul decides to remind us gently that we're getting a little to comfortable.

Branden
 
#38
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

When novice reloader forgets to put powder in a 45-70 case and pulls the trigger on his $2000 custom rifle and it goes 'pop' instead of 'boom,' he might just chamber and fire another round just to make sure it was a fluke. But then an angel or some kind of luck distracts him and he just goes home instead of touching off his new suicide machine. Hours later, while staring off into space, he wonders why the micro-cannon never went boom. A quick inspection proves that no light is at the end of the tunnel. The 500 grain slug is stuck a few inches past the chamber. A thick wooden dowel and a hammer free the "sleeper" round. As he realizes what didn't happen he kind of breaks into a cold sweat and swears off reloading for the rest of his life.... or until the next day. Now that guy just uses a reloading tray and charges the cases all at once. That way a quick visual will tell if the cases are all charged. He also compulsively shakes them by his ear, listening for the beautiful sound of sweet gun powder. What a dummy that guy was! I am glad it wasn't me.
 
#39
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

As long as your shooting an auto, it shouldn't cycle, so as long as you don't try to force a new round in manually without a little investigation, you should be save. The 2 times it happened with my 9mm, a new round wouldn't chamber until I removed the bullet by putting a rod down the barrel.
 
#40
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Ha! Finally! I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make that assumption. I'm just gonna leave it right there. I really like this site and have learned a lot here, and will continue to post my experiences. Thanks guys.. You too, Moroni.
 
#41
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

This very thing is what has my father in law totally against reloading. Years back one of his friends loaded up some 7RM hunting rounds for him and he missed the "biggest buck of his life ". You know those storys right. Well , he was retelling me this story last year and how they had bad primmers because it only when pop instead of bang.(Bad primers = no pop) He then showed me a zip lock bags full of the old ammo . Good thing he refused to shoot them anymore. Yea, took them home and started pulling bullets......SEVERAL had no powder at all !!!! I had a little chat with him about how lucky he was that the bullet didn't lodge in his barrel because he told me he just chambered another roung and kept on hunting .
 
#43
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

It happened once to me. Bullet went just far enough into the rifling that it was out of the case. While loading the next round (loaded hard) the bullet in it got shoved back in the case. Checked the barrel and suprise couldn't see through. Luckily I had taken a cleaning rod with me so didn't take long to clear up. Shook every round after that on that day to make sure it wouldn't happen again.
 
#44
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: woody66</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I reload 223 on my Dillon 650, I have a powder check unit this shows overcharg or under charge, if the die beeps check the case. Woody </div></div>

+1 on the Dillon powder check. Gives me some peace of mind.
 
#45
Re: What if I forget to load the propellant?

Ive had it happen once in an AR. I was loading Hornady 75 gr HPBTs in LC brass with a Rem 7/12 primer and pretty heavy crimp. Pulled the trigger and nothing. Ejected the round and didn't see anything out of the ordinary. For shits and giggles I grabbed some pliers and removed the bullet. The base of the bullet was black from the primer.
 
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