Fieldcraft What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

[Topgun823]

Our team is doing a SWAT demo for a Citizen's Academy in a couple of weeks. Part of the demo is a four rifle simultaneous command fire from our sniper team. What would be the best target material for a good visual effect? We've shot water bottles filled with water and red food coloring, balloons, cantelopes, and tomatoes in the past. Problem is, a 168gr SMK shot from 150 yards is moving so fast, it just zips right through most items. Any ideas?
Another consideration is that "spectators" are approx. 50 yards away from impact zone, therefore we won't be shooting steel.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Constance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Another consideration is that "spectators" are approx. 50 yards away from impact zone, therefore we won't be shooting steel. </div></div>

150 yard shots with spectators within 50 yards of the impact zone.....which means you are shooting "past" the spectators, or at least in their general direction.


That sounds real freaking safe..........

 

[threetrees]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

not visual, but nice 'boom': fill a bottle with dry ice, liquid nitrogen or similar frozen/liquified gas. beware - only a tiny bit of ice/liquid is required. give it a bit of time and shoot it. the high pressure in the bottle will, on impact, make the bottle explode with a 'decent' bang.

security range is required. and give it some tests how much it needs, how much it can stand ... also: when you don't kill the bottle in time, they will explode on their own.

we happened to break a sink with a coke bottle filled with a bit of liquid nitrogen. it's _not_ something to play.

but you can generally try anything that is under pressure. how about some deo? hrm.

some whipped cream can - that might also provide an interesting visual.

a) everything at your own risk

b) there are commercial alternatives. for a public view, these might be better/more suitable.

 

[Pat M]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

old 2 liter bottles filled with water & frozen

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

how's the prison population in La.?

2 birds, one stone.

 

[Topgun823]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Funny you say that, the last demo we had a lady say "I hope they like their jobs".

 

[Esselbach]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Pity you can't use a little bit of tannerite!

 

[Topgun823]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

I bit a little tannerite stuffed in a small watermelon would be impressive. lol

We may give the frozen two liters a try. Maybe even 20oz'ers. Hmmm.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Do take some video of the event, and post it up.....

 

[el gordo2]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Live chickens would be a good simulation.

 

[threetrees]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

canned shaving foam?

 

[THUNDERBOLT68]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

I like full Coke cans. I use to go to sams and buy Dr. thunder for .25. But that was several years back. I am sure they might be a little more now.

 

[lanwickum]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

You guys shoot past the spectators. Havn't you ever had a bullet explode in flight. I have. You never know were they go. A berm between shooters and spectators would make it fairly safe I would think. anyhow....

Ballons filled with glitter or baby powder shows a hit and is safe.

 

[threetrees]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

now i have it ... how about eggs?

 

[Topgun823]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Thanks for all the ideas guys. I forgot about the eggs. We've shot those in a few comps. and they do have a good visual. We thought about the shaving foam, we're gonna try that too.

Just to clarify the position of the spectators. They will be standing approx. 25 yards to the left of the path of the rounds and on top of a 10ft berm. To this day we have not had a round "explode" mid-flight. There are no obstructions between us and target and we are shooting into a grassy dirt berm, so there is minimal chance for a ricochet.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

I'm seriously missing something on the 'spectator placement', but aside from that and if you're going for 'dramatic effect' for them alone, then how about ping-pong balls filled with flour?

Or would they be too small of a target? (couldn't resist that,,, let the flames begin....

)

Seriously though, they'll create a cloud instantaneously, and the shell of the ball won't fly very far at all. You'd have created a whiffle-ball thingy.

 

[Drumie]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

+1 on shaving foam. My kids love see those blow up. Guess i better go out and get some more cans.

 

[Topgun823]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Hmmm...ping pong balls. That's about a 3/4MOA target. I think that's sufficient.
How do you get the flour in there though?

 

[RTodd]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

As stated already, unless there is a berm between your shooters and specators, I don't care at all for your spectator placement. I have had bullets blow up in flight. They were thin jacketed varmint bullets out of a fast twist barrel. Yes, I had fragments in the target to prove they blew up.

If you were saving someone's life, sure take the necessary risk. But shooting past spectators just to impress the crowd?

Then again, you didn't ask my opinion on spectator placement. . .

Randy

 

[Topgun823]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

We only shoot 168gr SMK Federal GMM factory ammo at about 2700fps. Not the screaming varmint rounds that some of you guys shoot. Out of 8yrs of shooting, no rounds have shown evidence of exploding yet.
Picture if you will, we are shooting at target 154yds. away at 12 o'clock position. Spectators are standing on top of 10ft berm at 10:30 position approx. 95yds from our position and approx. 65yds. from target.
Clear as mud!

 

[RTodd]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Bullets blowing up is a very unlikely occurance. A defective round of FGMM, not likely but certainly in the realm of possibility. An AD, doesn't happen every day, but not so far fetched. . .

Every organized shooting event I've ever attended has an imaginary 180 degree line down range from the shooter. No shooter or spectator crosses that line forward, and no shooter allows their muzzle to break that line rearward. Break the first rule, you go home. Break the second rule, and you are immediately converted from a competitor to a spectator. No questions asked. First rule of safe gun handling, muzzle control. By your description you have spectators 22.5 degrees off your intended line of fire. Like I said, war time, hostge situation, there is a justification for reasoned risk. At an "ooh aaah" show, you are negiligent to take that kind of risk.

I watched a competitor under the imediate supervision of an RO shoot himself in the leg. It happens fast, there is no rewind, and an ambulance call for just plain "dumb ass" wrecks everyone's day. Fortunately this was a .45 auto loaded with lead semi wadcutters and stitches set everything right. I was also at Camp Perry in '98 when a guy took a ricochet in the arm while standing behind a 10 foot concrete and earthen berm. Sometimes sh** happens, why go looking for it? I'm guessing since you are looking for something that will splatter you well understand that stitches are not likely to fix a mistake made with your 168 SMKs. Why would you even consider placing someone forward of your muzzles as part of a show???

Respectfully,

Randy

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

again, I cannot disagree with anything that has been said already. To go further regarding the 'ping-pong' ball, simply drill a hole in the side of the ball and fill it with flour.

Much the same way one would fill a cannon-ball with powder, whilst making munitions for the last civil war.

Cover said hole with tape, and use at your discretion. This is slightly imitating the gag 'chalk-ball' that I've heard some use on others at the golf course. The concept being when the ball is hit off the "tee", it disintegrates into a cloud as opposed to launching into that ballistic arc that we too "strive for".

But the ball itself will turn into a type of "whiffle-ball" at the same time, and SHOULD (full disclaimers and indemnifiers entered here) not pose a "shrapnel risk".

Go nuts, come back with video and beer stories. Looking forward to it.

 

[Shredder58]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

I've got to agree with what some others have said regarding the safety aspects of this demonstration. Would give a friendly suggestion that any and all law enforcement agencies that value their reputation give serious thought about what they are doing as they conduct official business and demonstrations such as the one that has been described here.

Government agencies are setting an example that the general public will look at and consider as the standard to follow. I understand that things like a SWAT Sniper demo do not completely fit inside the bounds of what the public should be doing at home...but the aspects of general range safety should be closely scrutinized. The "180 degree safety rule" is generally accepted these days at most matches and organized shooting events as the defacto standard. Anyone who is not familiar with this safety rule needs to do some research before they authorize or host any shooting event or even run a shooting range. Basically, this safety rule dictates that all other persons in the vicinity should be in the area defined as being behind an imaginary straight line drawn between the 3 o'clock and the 9 o'clock positions relative to the direction of fire. In other words, with the shooters looking down range at the target area, when they raise their arms straight out to their sides, all other persons (be they shooters, law enforcement, civilians, ROs, or whoever) should be behind the shooters and the 180 degree plane of safety. There is really no excuse to do any shooting event in any other fashion unless perhaps it involves trained law enforcement or military personnel performing some CQB type of demo, drill, excercise, or real world operation. In any case, the organizers of any demo event should insure that the highest standards of safety are being followed. And just because an agency, club, or group did an event in a particular fashion last year, or at some other time in the past, is no reason to assume that it is OK to continue using those same standards. Standards do change, and everyone needs to keep current with these changes and ensure the highest considerations are given to maintaining strict safety standards.

Not trying to stir up a hornets nest, and I mean no disrespect to the OP of this thread. My comments are provided with all due respect and offered in the spirit of perhaps providing some assistance to ensure that future events and agency policy gives due consideration to maintaining high safety standards that will stand up to scrutiny. We all want our shooting freedoms, and the view that others have of law enforcement and the shooting community, to be viewed in a positive light by everyone. So by all means continue to hold these events and best of luck...but please be careful out there...

 

[Topgun823]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Sooo..Went to the range with a few test objects. Eggs, 6oz can of shaving cream, silly string, and can of Hominy(it was in sale bin). Eggs did okay could see them fairly well. Hominy pretty much sucked. Silly string made a few unimpressing blobs. Shaving cream...LET IT SNOW. The whole 100 yard berm was covered. Made a cloud of foam rain about 12ft in diameter. Looks like this may be our targets.
I was not about to video this session, but we will try to get video of the actual demo.
Thanks for all the ideas. And concerns.

 

[threetrees]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Constance</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shaving cream...LET IT SNOW. The whole 100 yard berm was covered. Made a cloud of foam rain about 12ft in diameter.</div></div>

don't make me think of interesting targets and then don't have a video

 

[magnum_99]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Balloons--interesting when the wind gets going and can be sized for MOA shooting at different ranges. Golf balls are cool and make for a small targets.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

An excerpt from Shear Thickening Fluid:

Corn Starch and Water (Oobleck)

Cornstarch is a common thickening agent used in cooking. It is also a very good example of a shear thickening system. When a force is applied to a 1:2.5 mixture of water and cornstarch, the cornstarch acts as a solid and resists the force. For a great demo of this behavior, check out this wideo:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vCHPo3EA7oE"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vCHPo3EA7oE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>.

Filling a container with this mixture might resolve the bullet passthru issues.

Personally, I suspect the red coloring would be rather overly suggestive for a public demo, and suggest you try Orange (or Green, to reduce any need for cleanup).

If anyone wants to know how this is done, I'd suggest a rather vague "It's all just Science Magic" sort of reply. I mean, we wouldn't want perps armoring themselves up with homeade liquid body armor, would we?

Greg

 

[LawnMM]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Freeze a water melon, cantaloupe, etc. Should break up on impact.

 

[Gunn-Fighter]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

red spray paint can, or tannerite in a salad dressing caryy out cup....both awesome

 

[subwofer2]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TOP PREDATOR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">how's the prison population in La.?

2 birds, one stone. </div></div>

 

[aveisone]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

fill a pumpkin or cantelope with water. Then shoot it.

 

[PanaDP]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

For really long ranges, I think a bunch of balloons taped to a clay pigeon would be a nice one. You'd have boom....wait...and then be able to see the balloons release.

 

[Bjmac]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

If I were going for effect, I would pick either frozen small watermelon's or that crap that blows up when shot. Always wanted to see how that stuff works. I have no need to use it, unfortunately. Or, you could set up some dyed water filled gallon jugs without a top. Should make for a decent shower of colored liquid in the air

 

[fox123108]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

A simple, cheap target is ice. Depending on the distance you're shooting can determine the size of the ice target. One way to set these up could be to pour water into a plastic bottle or coke can and freeze them, then shoot. Upside to this way by using plastic or aluminum containers is that you can make some people happy by recycling the leftovers. My favorite way is to just use different size pieces of ice from ice cube to ammo can and shoot it that way. This way helps new shooters get into the basics and more advanced shooters with other fundamentals, as it melts you get a smaller target.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

You'd obviously have to do some practice, but if you used 110gr hornady tap rounds, you'd get the effect you are looking for....

 

[error4o4]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An excerpt from Shear Thickening Fluid:

Corn Starch and Water (Oobleck)

Cornstarch is a common thickening agent used in cooking. It is also a very good example of a shear thickening system. When a force is applied to a 1:2.5 mixture of water and cornstarch, the cornstarch acts as a solid and resists the force. For a great demo of this behavior, check out this wideo:

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vCHPo3EA7oE"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vCHPo3EA7oE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>.

Filling a container with this mixture might resolve the bullet passthru issues.

Personally, I suspect the red coloring would be rather overly suggestive for a public demo, and suggest you try Orange (or Green, to reduce any need for cleanup).

If anyone wants to know how this is done, I'd suggest a rather vague "It's all just Science Magic" sort of reply. I mean, we wouldn't want perps armoring themselves up with homeade liquid body armor, would we?

Greg </div></div>

I haven't shot a non-newtonian fluid, but suspect it would have the opposite effect. Changing viscosity would absorb energy and exacerbate the problem. Maybe a round enters, punches a nice clean hole, no exit? I would expect this to behave like shooting a bucket of sand.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

hadjis

 

[FASTDM]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

If your looking for suggestive, get a pigs head from a butcher and stuff a tannerite charge in there.

Watermellon frozen or not would do the trick as well.

 

[crazybrit]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

I'm thinking tape a can of red spray paint to the front of that can of shaving cream......

 

[B3dlam]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

I would say go with pool balls they are pretty epic when they hit but they put off way to much shrapnel although they are a great target when you hang them from a string at 200 yards. Just beware like I said we found shrapnel up to 20+ feet away with shards imbedded 1/2 inch or more into the wood of the target frames.

I will second soda cans though shake em up they make great reactive targets and they are cheap.

One I haven't tried but I imagine might be a lot of fun would be Sidewalk chalk try these
http://www.vat19.com/dvds/egg-shaped-sidewalk-chalk.cfm

 

[Nemisis7.62]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Tannerite in scole cans. Works every year at gastonia, be sure to face the tin lids away from the shooters. Or put tan write in a big pill bottle, place that in a one gallon bag of red paint or Rague sauce then place that in mannequin head.

 

[Insayn]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

Can of red spray paint.

 

[EBM]

Re: What is a good visual reactive target for rifles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: el gordo2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Live chickens would be a good simulation. </div></div>

+100

On the plus side you could host a killer BBQ afterwards.