What is considered good? And why did this happen to me?

[juice900]

I shot my RPR .338 for the 1st time last summer. After quit a bit of fiddling with the scope and figuring out a lot of stupid small things for my own, I managed to get this grouping. This is at 100 yards. ( picture attached)
Fast forward to last January, I shot at 250 yards. I dialed my scope up to what I thought was correct ( scope was zero at 100yds) and I was shooting about 2" high.... now this is my dumb question- Is it possible that the extra 150 yrds did not require any adjustment or holdover? is the bullet still going flat enough that a 100 yrd zero will still hold at 250? ...And before you ask, no i didnt think to hit my zero stop and try at the time because i just assumed I was doing something wrong and didnt think about it.

 

[Ledzep]

Well first off, No. You should have had drop, off the top of my head I'd guess in the vicinity 2 MOA or .6 mil (give or take).

Whenever stuff like that happens, it's best to bring things back to 100yd and verify your zero. Unless your scope is drastically higher over your barrel than most setups you shouldn't have the same zero at 100 and 250.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Is it possible the bullet is still traveling in an upward trajectory?

 

[juice900]

Well first off, No. You should have had drop, off the top of my head I'd guess in the vicinity 2 MOA or .6 mil (give or take).

Whenever stuff like that happens, it's best to bring things back to 100yd and verify your zero. Unless your scope is drastically higher over your barrel than most setups you shouldn't have the same zero at 100 and 250.

lets say I confirmed my 100 yd zero is still on, then i dialed up 2-2.5 moa and was still shooting about 2-2.5 in" high at 250 yds- does my 30 moa scope rail come into effect somehow at that distance? Im wondering if i had a 200 yrd zero and shot at 350 yds if i would get the same result...

 

[Dthomas3523]

If it’s not an equipment issue, it’s either:

Issue with zero
Issue with dope
Issue with fundamentals

 

[Snuby642]

Confirm something please.
The way I read your post was that your 100 yard zero is actually 2 inches high on purpose.

That would be old school hunting rifle stuff for using a capped scope.
It has a place, precision long distance is not it.

 

[juice900]

no, my 100 yrd zero is dead on....at 100 yds. i later shot at 250 yards,.....so after reading these replies I think I know what I did. I dialed up 2.5 moa on my elevation... not sure why I had it in my head at the time that thats what i needed to do. I think I now kinda understand my mistake but im still a bit confused lol. Im pretty new at this.

 

[juice900]

ok I actually found my target from that day... it was more like 4.5" high

 

[Centuriator]

I'd be disappointed with the results posted in the OP.

 

[goosed]

lets say I confirmed my 100 yd zero is still on, then i dialed up 2-2.5 moa and was still shooting about 2-2.5 in" high at 250 yds- does my 30 moa scope rail come into effect somehow at that distance? Im wondering if i had a 200 yrd zero and shot at 350 yds if i would get the same result...

No, the 30moa rail has nothing to do with it
Yes, if you zeroed at 200 the drop at 350 is typically very similar to the drop from 100-250 with a high BC 338. That would not stay true as you go further out though.

Something is wrong to get the results you got.

Whether you didn't zero correctly. Dialed more than you thought. Scope isn't tracking. Bolts are loose. The nut (you) behind the trigger is loose. Is impossible to say with the info you have provided. Best advice at this point is check that everything is tight, no signs of scope moving (scratches by rings) and go back out shooting to confirm your findings. Record everything and report back.

 

[winniedonkey]

Has this happened with another rifle/caliber? Seems like a number oops. It happens.

 

[juice900]

Has this happened with another rifle/caliber? Seems like a number oops. It happens.

No, the 30moa rail has nothing to do with it
Yes, if you zeroed at 200 the drop at 350 is typically very similar to the drop from 100-250 with a high BC 338. That would not stay true as you go further out though.

Something is wrong to get the results you got.

Whether you didn't zero correctly. Dialed more than you thought. Scope isn't tracking. Bolts are loose. The nut (you) behind the trigger is loose. Is impossible to say with the info you have provided. Best advice at this point is check that everything is tight, no signs of scope moving (scratches by rings) and go back out shooting to confirm your findings. Record everything and report back.

I think I dialed too high maybe? I had my scope 100% dialed in at 100 Yards (sero stop was set and confirmed with another group)... never touched the gun again until that winter. pulled it out of the case and dialed up 2.5 moa for 250 yds.

 

[Morsoseth]

I'm a newb at this but what if the ground level of the 100 and 200 yard targets are unlevel? Doesn't that affect the point of impact?

 

[juice900]

I guess the question I should have asked is .... by all terms. 1 moa is 1 moa, was I right by dialing up 2.5 moa for 250 yds assuming my 100 yrd zero was correct? if so, then I can rule that out and figure out what else I did wrong instead.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I'm a newb at this but what if the ground level of the 100 and 200 yard targets are unlevel? Doesn't that affect the point of impact?

Only if it’s a steep incline or decline in relation to muzzle. Minor variations don’t matter much.

 

[308pirate]

I guess the question I should have asked is .... by all terms. 1 moa is 1 moa, was I right by dialing up 2.5 moa for 250 yds assuming my 100 yrd zero was correct? if so, then I can rule that out and figure out what else I did wrong instead.

Please tell us how you came up with 2.5 MOA up from a 100 yard zero for your 338 Lapua ammo.

I'm not saying you're right, and I'm not saying you're wrong. I need to see how you came up with the number first to answer you.

 

[Steel head]

If it’s not an equipment issue, it’s either:

Issue with zero
Issue with dope
Issue with fundamentals

I’m guessing the butt of the rifle is dropping on recoil, I see that a lot.

 

[juice900]

Please tell us how you came up with 2.5 MOA up from a 100 yard zero for your 338 Lapua ammo.

I'm not saying you're right, and I'm not saying you're wrong. I need to see how you came up with the number first to answer you.

I came up with in in my little brain lol.
It was simply an assumption.
Im completely new at ranging targets, dialing scopes ect. ect.
Im completely ignorant to the whole process. After talking to a friend he explained to me that unless I have any dope recorded that there is no way for me to know how much to dial up....I just kinda figured 250 yards= 2.5 moa lmao! I didnt know!
So isnt there any baseline info available that I could use to start off with?
so if im reading my ammo box correctly, doesnt this mean if Im zeroed at 200 yards my bullet will drop 7.2" at 300 yds?

 

[juice900]

If it’s not an equipment issue, it’s either:

Issue with zero
Issue with dope
Issue with fundamentals

its dope...I have none. I just assumed if I dialed 2.5 moa for 250 yds that my bullet would magically hit on target.

 

[whatsupdoc]

You are correct according to the box a 200 yard zero will drop 7.2 inches at 300 yards, only you are zeroed at 100 yards. You need to learn how to use a ballistic calculator, that will give you a reasonable prediction of where your impacts will be.

Why are you doing this with a 338?
You should be learning with a smaller easier to shoot caliber where you can shoot more frequently not once every six months.
After you get some shooting time under your belt understanding elevation and wind calls you can use your newly acquired skills to play with the bigger bullets.

Until then you just have no Juice.

 

[epoletna]

I'm of the opinion you should actually look at a ballistics table for that cartridge/velocity/bullet weight before just dialing the elevation knob. Of leave the zero where you have it for 100 yards, shoot at 200 yards, and see where the group hits, then use that as your correction.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Good for you for being brave enough to come back and admit what you did and didn’t know.

Shit happens.

You will however, be ridiculed now. Enjoy!!

 

[Dthomas3523]

I came up with in in my little brain lol.
It was simply an assumption.
Im completely new at ranging targets, dialing scopes ect. ect.
Im completely ignorant to the whole process. After talking to a friend he explained to me that unless I have any dope recorded that there is no way for me to know how much to dial up....I just kinda figured 250 yards= 2.5 moa lmao! I didnt know!
So isnt there any baseline info available that I could use to start off with?
so if im reading my ammo box correctly, doesnt this mean if Im zeroed at 200 yards my bullet will drop 7.2" at 300 yds?

Also, here is a baseline:

Marc's Weaponized Math

Here is the link to the article on the Math we discussed in the Podcast from Alaska https://www.snipershide.com/predictable-weaponized-math-and-x-factor-voodoo/ Weaponized Math Article Take my 6.5, for instance, at my home range: 8.7 at 1,000 minus 5.8 at 800 equals 2.9 Mils of drop in that...

www.snipershide.com

 

[308pirate]

I came up with in in my little brain lol.
It was simply an assumption.
Im completely new at ranging targets, dialing scopes ect. ect.
Im completely ignorant to the whole process. After talking to a friend he explained to me that unless I have any dope recorded that there is no way for me to know how much to dial up....I just kinda figured 250 yards= 2.5 moa lmao! I didnt know!
So isnt there any baseline info available that I could use to start off with?
so if im reading my ammo box correctly, doesnt this mean if Im zeroed at 200 yards my bullet will drop 7.2" at 300 yds?

Ok......

While your interpretation of the trajectory on the box is correct, I want you to listen REAL GOOD: NEVER. I repeat NEVER ever again use inches/centimeter/any linear measurement to describe bullet drop or trajectory in any way.

Always, always, always, describe the bullet's trajectory in angular units. Use minutes of arc (MOA) or use milliradians, I don't care. But do not ever use inches, feet, meters, centimeters, or anything else like that to describe bullet drop.

Since you don't have any dope and you don't have a chronograph, the only information from the ammo box that you can use is the bullet type and the muzzle velocity. You're going to use those two bits of info to create an approximate dope (trajectory) card that you're going to then verify and adjust at the range. I say approximate because the muzzle velocity listed on the ammo box is most likely not the same as what that ammo does in your rifle.

Go here: http://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi and enter the following information:

• The exact bullet your ammo's loaded with
• The muzzle velocity (if you can't borrow a chrono, enter the one from the box)
• Enter 10 ft for distance to chronograph
• Sight height (vertical distance between bore (or action) centerline and scope centerline
• Min, Max, and Zero ranges
• Range increment (this can be any value)
• Temp, atmospheric pressure, relative humidity, and altitude of where you zeroed the rifle. You can get the altitude of that location from the internet. If you don't know the other three, enter 29.92 for pressure, 50% for humidity, and 59 deg for temperature
• Set the units for column 1 to whatever units your scope's turrets adjust in (MOA or milliradians)
• Set the units for column 2 to the opposite of column 1. You may as well start learning both systems

Leave all other boxes to whatever default value they're in and press the go button.

 

[juice900]

Also, here is a baseline:

Marc's Weaponized Math

Here is the link to the article on the Math we discussed in the Podcast from Alaska https://www.snipershide.com/predictable-weaponized-math-and-x-factor-voodoo/ Weaponized Math Article Take my 6.5, for instance, at my home range: 8.7 at 1,000 minus 5.8 at 800 equals 2.9 Mils of drop in that...

www.snipershide.com

thank you

 

[juice900]

Good for you for being brave enough to come back and admit what you did and didn’t know.

Shit happens.

You will however, be ridiculed now. Enjoy!!

ha ha! its ok, Im the type of person who believes fat shaming works and there is no dumb question unless you already know the answer.

 

[juice900]

Ok......

While your interpretation of the trajectory on the box is correct, I want you to listen REAL GOOD: NEVER. I repeat NEVER ever again use inches/centimeter/any linear measurement to describe bullet drop or trajectory in any way.

Always, always, always, describe the bullet's trajectory in angular units. Use minutes of arc (MOA) or use milliradians, I don't care. But do not ever use inches, feet, meters, centimeters, or anything else like that to describe bullet drop.

Since you don't have any dope and you don't have a chronograph, the only information from the ammo box that you can use is the bullet type and the muzzle velocity. You're going to use those two bits of info to create an approximate dope (trajectory) card that you're going to then verify and adjust at the range. I say approximate because the muzzle velocity listed on the ammo box is most likely not the same as what that ammo does in your rifle.

Go here: http://jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmtraj-5.1.cgi and enter the following information:

• The exact bullet your ammo's loaded with
• The muzzle velocity (if you can't borrow a chrono, enter the one from the box)
• Enter 10 ft for distance to chronograph
• Sight height (vertical distance between bore (or action) centerline and scope centerline
• Min, Max, and Zero ranges
• Range increment (this can be any value)
• Temp, atmospheric pressure, relative humidity, and altitude of where you zeroed the rifle. You can get the altitude of that location from the internet. If you don't know the other three, enter 29.92 for pressure, 50% for humidity, and 59 deg for temperature
• Set the units for column 1 to whatever units your scope's turrets adjust in (MOA or milliradians)
• Set the units for column 2 to the opposite of column 1. You may as well start learning both systems

Leave all other boxes to whatever default value they're in and press the go button.

so I found a video on moa from ryan cleckner that explained a lot...everything you said reflects what i saw. thanks for the link and im going to get a bunch of my questions answered from what you took the time to tell me. thank you very much. I'll report back once I get some results so I can show Im not trying to waste anybody's time with these newby questions.

EDIT: this website is awesome! I had no idea this stuff even existed

 

[juice900]

Also, here is a baseline:

Marc's Weaponized Math

Here is the link to the article on the Math we discussed in the Podcast from Alaska https://www.snipershide.com/predictable-weaponized-math-and-x-factor-voodoo/ Weaponized Math Article Take my 6.5, for instance, at my home range: 8.7 at 1,000 minus 5.8 at 800 equals 2.9 Mils of drop in that...

www.snipershide.com

thanks brother

 

[juice900]

You are correct according to the box a 200 yard zero will drop 7.2 inches at 300 yards, only you are zeroed at 100 yards. You need to learn how to use a ballistic calculator, that will give you a reasonable prediction of where your impacts will be.

Why are you doing this with a 338?
You should be learning with a smaller easier to shoot caliber where you can shoot more frequently not once every six months.
After you get some shooting time under your belt understanding elevation and wind calls you can use your newly acquired skills to play with the bigger bullets.

Until then you just have no Juice.

well, I don't have a good answer for that. I get obsessive with hobbies and cant help myself but to go all in. I used to race dirtbikes then got older and into sportbikes. After a few real bad accidents my body couldn't take it anymore (or my bank account). After I had 2 kids I figured the bike was to dangerous and basically had nothing to do for about 2 years. Long story short I took up firearms and eventually got hooked on the idea of long range shooting because of the difficulty I learned it to be. .338 is a kick ass round and did quite a bit of research beforehand so I knew it wouldn't be cheap but its still cheaper than my previous hospital bills I had yearly, so Im just trading expenses. But youre right, I could have learned all my lessons on a cheaper level, but fuck it, this is more fun. And thanks to folks like you helping me..I'll eventually get my juice. Cheers mate.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Your dope should look something like this.
338LM using Hornady 285gr match ammo.

 

[juice900]

Your dope should look something like this.
338LM using Hornady 285gr match ammo.

View attachment 7284622

where did you get that? does in only show mils? no moa?

 

[seansmd]

A dozen apps can shoot that out with MV,BC, twist rate and direction,site over bore and environemt. All of those can be box or measured to start with.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

where did you get that? does in only show mils? no moa?

It's a phone app called Ballistic Arc. It does have MOA and you can set the distance increments you want or enter in custom distances.

It's free to download. And there a few like it.

 

[kenzup]

I just skimmed through this, has anyone brought up checking bore height? If he has the standard 1.5 inches that could be a possible issue.

 

[lht645]

Do you learn well from reading? If so "Applied Ballistics" by Brian Litz is a must read to gather an understanding of long range shooting, Frank's videos are also a great source if you are a visual learner. If you need to do to learn take a class, at the cost of 338 ammo it will save you a fortune. And keep at it , nothing better than knowing you can hit at range and why.