What is "long range"?

[Zigjib]

Hell yeah, lets argue!

I've been having this discussion a lot lately through professional channels and I've been trying to come up with a solid definition for what "long range" actually is.

Most people will typically reply "it depends on the cartridge", but I just HATE that because it's not a definition and it feels like a throw away line.

I don't believe "Long range", is cartridge specific - you can have a range that is considered long for the cartridge, but that doesn't make the distance "long range".

This is what i've put forward to define Long Range, or more accurately, this is how I want to break down distance brackets based on the equipment and skill level required to impact the target.

"Range brackets are determined by the rifle, optic and ammunition combination required to reliably impact the target and for the projectile to cause the desired effect on target, at the distance the target is from the shooter, and within the capabilities expected of the shooter at their level of training"

People always use the example of a 22lr. 200m or 300m is long range for a 22lr. Whilst it's true that 300m is a long shot for a 22, the more accurate statement is; a 22 is a shit cartridge for 300m+ shooting.

0 -50m CQC
Average PCC, Rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
No magnification required (reflex shooting)
Low level training (exempting tactics)

0 - 300m Close combat;
Average rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
Magnification not required
Low level training

300 - 600m Extended range;
Average rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
Magnification/subtensions/spotter required
Intermediate level training

600m - 1000m Long Range;
Average Rifle
Specific Ammunition Type
Specific Optic type
Ancilliary Equipment, range finder/weather meter useful
High level training

1000m - 1500m+ - Extreme Long Range;
Specific Rifle
Precision accuracy required
Specific Cartridge and Bullet type
Specific Optic type
Ancilliary Equipment, range finder/weather meter required
Advanced level training

So there you go. Pick it apart dudes.

 

[7.62willdo]

The opposite of short range?

 

[Ronws]

Well, I am the obligatory village idiot but I think your definitions are kind of close. For example, a straight wall like 450 Bush Master has dropped 5 feet at 300 yards. Any reliable scope would account for that. Vortex Crossfire II Straight Wall has lines to 300 yards. The Leupold scope is also similar.
However, I would not say that 300 yards is long range for the straight walls. Long range is long range and you pick the cartridge and rifle for the job.

Hunting elk to 600 yards? One of the 7s in an 8 lb rifle before scope and mag. My choice is my 7 PRC in my chassis.

PRS or some other competition? You can use a chassis that allows added weight and more stability.

Hunting whitetail deer in Georgia? Nothing more than a .308 is needed because, like many parts of the southeast, it is so heavily wooded that you are lucky to range a shot to even 225 yards. Most 308 factory hunting ammo is good at less than 400 yards.

I once heard someone define long range as 300 yards and that mostly works for me. Anything past that is increasing the nomenclature. I might go as far as to call anything past 600 yards as ELR. Again, reminding everyone here I am the stupidest one here, the requisite village idiot.

It is said that it is best, and I agree, to choose the job, then the cartridge, and then the rifle. So, then, decide that the job is long range or ELR and build the rifle around the cartridge that is going to work best.

People talk about ELR with .300 PRC. But there can be significant muzzle flip and might loose sight of trace. Save the .300 PRC for moose and bear hunting and get either a 7 or a screeching 6.5 CM. After all, you are only clanging steel or punching paper and you need less recoil to operate that effectively.

 

[Makinchips208]

0 -50m CQC
Average PCC, Rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
No magnification required (reflex shooting)
Low level training (exempting tactics)

More like 0-100 for what you specify. Drop at 100 is negligible with most pcc.

 

[Zigjib]

The opposite of short range?

Touche

 

[Govt Mule]

Your application for the rifle and equipment you choose matters. If you are trying to take out a man sized target at 600 yards, your equipment will be sufficient. If you are trying to put 20 shots into a 3" circle... not good enough. Cheers

 

[PusherX11]

1000+

 

[ColinW]

Long range is the horizontal distance at which point a supersonic bullet slows down to transonic velocities and likely becomes unstable and cartwheels into the dirt or target. Entirely dependent on the bullets stability and velocity. Or....something scientificky like that

 

[TheHorta]

We old folk are content to let you young’uns argue about things like this while we go out and shoot.

 

[45-90]

Today, long range begins "over" 1000 yds to over 2000 yds, maybe 2400 yds, extreme long range is over 2500 yds.
Comperition, like The king of 2 Miles Competition, has extend the range for what is expected to be called extreme LR shooting, with very specialized cartridges, turned solid bullets in 375 and 416 calibers.
Where the competition can start at a fairly close 1900 yds, and moves out from there.

 

[Franko]

Long range is wherever my knife won't reach.

 

[OREGUN]

Beyond 1000 yards to whatever is no longer possible with shoulder fired weapons.
You can’t shoot “long range” with .22 and there is no such thing as “extreme long range” beyond being a way to tell people that they best not bring their poorly performing cartridge to the game because the targets are going to be a long ways past 1000.

 

[Daddyusmaximus]

Well, for me... (and that's all that counts in my book) CQC is just the newest term for Close Combat, so being one and the same, that covers 0-50 M.

Out to say 300 M is "normal" combat range. (Even though almost all the "normal" combat I ever saw was inside 50 M.)

Here's where things start to take on a life of their own.
Way back when... out to 300 M would be "medium" range, and beyond that "long" range.

However, I'm getting older, and the old Mark 1 eyeball sighting system isn't what it used to be. Now I answer differently.
Now I say, If I need a magnified optic to engage... it's long range.
Yeah, there's still a difference between "precision" shooting, and "long range" shooting, as sometimes I'll use a scope at 80 M...
but if I NEED that scope... it's long range.

I need it more these days...

Long has gotten shorter. I blame the Biden economy.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Hell yeah, lets argue!

I've been having this discussion a lot lately through professional channels and I've been trying to come up with a solid definition for what "long range" actually is.

Most people will typically reply "it depends on the cartridge", but I just HATE that because it's not a definition and it feels like a throw away line.

I don't believe "Long range", is cartridge specific - you can have a range that is considered long for the cartridge, but that doesn't make the distance "long range".

This is what i've put forward to define Long Range, or more accurately, this is how I want to break down distance brackets based on the equipment and skill level required to impact the target.

"Range brackets are determined by the rifle, optic and ammunition combination required to reliably impact the target and for the projectile to cause the desired effect on target, at the distance the target is from the shooter, and within the capabilities expected of the shooter at their level of training"

People always use the example of a 22lr. 200m or 300m is long range for a 22lr. Whilst it's true that 300m is a long shot for a 22, the more accurate statement is; a 22 is a shit cartridge for 300m+ shooting.

0 -50m CQC
Average PCC, Rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
No magnification required (reflex shooting)
Low level training (exempting tactics)

0 - 300m Close combat;
Average rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
Magnification not required
Low level training

300 - 600m Extended range;
Average rifle
Non-specific application ammunition
Magnification/subtensions/spotter required
Intermediate level training

600m - 1000m Long Range;
Average Rifle
Specific Ammunition Type
Specific Optic type
Ancilliary Equipment, range finder/weather meter useful
High level training

1000m - 1500m+ - Extreme Long Range;
Specific Rifle
Precision accuracy required
Specific Cartridge and Bullet type
Specific Optic type
Ancilliary Equipment, range finder/weather meter required
Advanced level training

So there you go. Pick it apart dudes.

To me the weapons chamber, dictates what constitutes long range.

 

[lonegunman762x51]

For a 3 gun or action shooter, "long range" is about 15 yards. Tactical shooter " long range" is 40 yards or so. Rifle shooter? 600 yards or more. Competitive long range rifle 1200 yards. Fucking liars on the internet? One or two miles with 6.5 Creedmoor.

Most people cannot shoot a 22 rimfire at 100yds with any degree of accuracy in spite of what they post online. Hell 40% of the people posting here do not actually own a gun and it shows.

 

[45-90]

To me the weapons chamber, dictates what constitutes long range.

Not necessarily, in 1879, at Sandy Hook government military shoot out, they took the 45-70 Springfield to 2500 yds and hit the target with 7 different rifles.
Even went to 3200 yds, with hits....in the end the government declared the open sighted Springfield to be good for 1900 yds for the average trooper engagements.
They old military rifles had iron ladder sights with noted military engagement at 2000 yds/ meters in battle, Even the frontier 44-40 lever action came with ladder sights for longer engagements.
Had an old mauser 7 mm that was graduated to 2000 meters, on the ladder with military ammo.

 

[kenny1773]

absolutely caliber dependent

 

[Zigjib]

absolutely caliber dependent

View attachment 8426127

I'm going to steal this meme and not give you any credit when I use it lol

 

[Hippy_Steve]

I can pee long range

 

[nockhunter]

Long range is "long", short range is "short", nuff said. To each his own, who is to say what long is. .Is 2 miles long? is 100y long? Stupid question. Just get out and shoot, long range, short range, rifle, pistol, shotgun, just shoot and have some fun lighten up life is short, enjoy it, no one gets out alive.

 

[Zigjib]

Long range is "long", short range is "short", nuff said. To each his own, who is to say what long is. .Is 2 miles long? is 100y long? Stupid question. Just get out and shoot, long range, short range, rifle, pistol, shotgun, just shoot and have some fun lighten up life is short, enjoy it, no one gets out alive.

You can just say you don't know.

 

[akmike47]

absolutely caliber dependent

View attachment 8426127

Oddly enough my .308 is great out to 800, then I’m hit and miss

I think it’s a combo of mental games and my loads are on the low side, which is fine for the normal 600yd I have to use.

 

[Aftermath]

I can pee long range

Only in the early morning, though.

 

[Conaso]

Long Range is a distance greater than 5,685 AR15 clips. Now, this is about long range, let's not get into an argument about magazine vs clips.

 

[ggmanning]

Depends on the audience. All the deer hunters around here think anything past about 300 yards is God territory and a long shot is more in the 200-300 range. They have no concept of anything but "sighted in an inch high at 100". It makes sense though because practice is a few rounds in September to check zero and then a few rounds shooting deer a year.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Long range to some must be 100 yds, as the grouping on the 25-50yd targets they are posting as 100yds are telling.

 

[M4orturnate]

Long range is any distance/target you need to read wind to hit imo. Id say past 2 mils for most cartridges/conditions. Elr starts where most turrets max out imo

 

[Bullfrog08]

If someone says they shoot 400-600 yards....ok. Dont care, dont even ask what caliber. When someone starts talking about hitting targets out past 1000 yards consistently, im ready to listen and start asking questions.

My opinion, but anything past 1000 yards is long range. You need some equipment, you need glass, you need to understand a little math, you need to know what the dials do, and a little idea of something about wind.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Might bit off the subject, but true long range is the maximum range where the shooter can keep all his shots in a 6 inch circle, in actual field conditions.

For me, hunting, i limit myself to 250 yards. I want a clean kill, not a long night looking for broken twigs, deer tracks and possibly the occasional drop of blood.

For General shooting, 700 to a 1000 yards from a decent rest, (mod prone)
For shooting from an unsteady rest, hard to go past 400 yards, maybe 600 yards when the stars align right and I have plenty of rest.

In 70 years of shooting, I believe that long range is a personal matter and it’s very important that each individual should know his limits by practical application. Read, actually going to a range and honestly demonstrating to himself that he can do this Repeatedly.

(And yes it does change with age and injury) (practice never hurts)

Mod Prone at 600 yards on a very good day. First shot hit, six inches.

 

[Taylorbok]

People talk about ELR with .300 PRC. But there can be significant muzzle flip and might loose sight of trace. Save the .300 PRC for moose and bear hunting and get either a 7 or a screeching 6.5 CM. After all, you are only clanging steel or punching paper and you need less recoil to operate that effectively.

If you show up to an ELR event with a 7 or 6.5 you are gonna have a bad day. If you wanna shoot something smaller at an event like KRG or Nightforce you can do decent but the big 30's are the dominant cartridges. Personally I don't watch for trace I watch for the splash on or off target.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

I don’t know… you guys tell me?

Sirhr

 

[The D]

This says 60ft

 

[Emerson0311]

Consider that the bottom 30% at all local matches are often the expert best shooters in their “crews”. A full size IPSC past 350 is not a 8/10 deal for 90% of shooters without some type of barricade BR situation, bench, or prone. Lots of talk, but very few shooters will put $$$ on it.

 

[FredHammer]

Cutting through the pride and ego bullshit. "Long Range" to me is beyond 300. Or that point where drop and wind need to be calculated to hit an IPSC. Pretty much all cartridges begin to experience significant drop at 350yds. I shoot ELR to 1 mile and 1000yds regularly, so it's not as if I can't shoot past 300, it's just what I would consider a proper technical definition.

 

[LuckyLuke80]

Honestly it’s a very subjective idea. I have shot deer out beyond 400 yards with my 270. Only used Kentucky windage to get a one shot kill shot through the chest. In that regards it’s long range considering the circumstances ie very steep wide open hillside. On a bench or tripod or bipod on a flat range 400 is a hit all day long on a deer/human size target. But if we start talking bullseye and “sub moa” 400+ yards can be proof of good competence. Still can’t really consider that long range. Yesterday I used the gravity ballistics app for the first time and confirmed the numbers out to 700 yards. Is that long range? Not likely since me as a pretty new guy to prs was able to do that with around 10-12 rounds. So in the end I still say long range is subjective to the circumstances, experience, and equipment.

 

[Redheeler]

I can pee long range

So could I, when I was younger.

 

[bpd459]

In NRA highpower, Long Range begins at 800yds and ends at 1000yds. 100-200-300 is short range, 500-600yds is mid range.

 

[Dead Eye Dick]

Consider that the bottom 30% at all local matches are often the expert best shooters in their “crews”. A full size IPSC past 350 is not a 8/10 deal for 90% of shooters without some type of barricade BR situation, bench, or prone. Lots of talk, but very few shooters will put $$$ on it.

That‘s the point, When the pressure is off, the rest is solid, shots are easy.

Easy when sitting at a bench. Had a turkey walk out into the middle of the range at Altus. I was checking sight settings, sitting at a bench, with the 6.5 Creedmoor propped using its bipod and a good rear bag.

At 17 power, the turkey looked as big as a horse at 350 yards or so. As he was dusting himself off, that shot would have a given, just dial the distance, put the crosshairs on his center mass, squeeze the trigger and watch 20 pounds of good eating vanish in a cloud of feathers and blood. The turkey had nothing to fear, sensed no danger, so he wasn’t going anyplace in a hurry. No Pressure.

But put me in competition, same rifle (well it’s a 6GT now) and I hit 50% of my shots and at my age and condition, I am happy. Yep, I’ve hit them a long ways off in competition, but hardly always. I don’t even hit them all when practicing and pushing myself. But when I have no worries, the targets are big, and the only folks watching are people I know who I don’t have any reason to impress, the groups are shockingly small.

Past a well marked 250 yards, those deer can walk. Closer than 250 yards and they‘re still walking, they can keep walking, I am waiting till they stand still and be pretty much broadside. My idea of fun, as I said earlier, is not spending a cold night, searching for broken twigs, deer hoof prints and drops of blood.