PRS Talk What is the fate of the PRS Gas Gun Series?

[simpy16]

Curious what peoples thoughts are on the future of the PRS Gas Gun series. I think there have been 2 so far this year and it sounds like they have been ran really well. I know there were a few others that were suppose to happen in the NW but they have been cancelled and I am not sure why. I think the MGM Ironman is still planning to happen but it looks like there is still a lot of open spaces for that match as well.

Is this a case of just being new and needing to wait for people to catch on to it?
Has the field become over saturated with matches and it is just too much to expect people to have match bolt and gas gun rifles?
Cost? Especially with consideration to round counts at these matches?

It seems like a fun change of pace type of match and one that I am interested in participating in the future but just curious if it will be around or dropped to just focus on bolt gun series.

 

[LRShooter101]

Something for Gas Gun Match Directors to consider!

I have noticed that a lot of them are adding some form of pistol shooting to the stages.

Not sure why they feel the need to add pistol shooting to an event that is part of the Precision RIFLE Series?

Personally, I am not looking to enter a Precision RIFLE Match, where I am going to be forced to shoot a pistol. That is going to be a whole new demand for equipment/resources, time, and money, that I am not looking to expend.

If shooters wanted to do that, they could start shooting some form of a 3 gun match.

I am not trying to say this is going to make or brake the series, but I have talked to a number of shooters who are NOT shooting those matches for that reason.

I think you hit the high points, a lot of shooters can't swing the extra equipment/resources, time, and money that it takes to shoot both a bolt gun and gas gun.

It would be interesting if there were some team based matches, where one shooter would run a bolt gun and the other a gas gun. This would allow both to shoot simultaneously, and would allow shooters to run whatever platform they prefer. There have been matches like the Mammoth Sniper Challenge where this format has been used.

Time will tell!

 

[JLR]

Currently we're still having 2 matches in the NW area. MGM Ironman and the RBros Gas match, which I am running. I'm not sure why the low turnout so far, but if I need to drop the pistol portion to get more shooters I have no problem doing that and just adding more rifle rounds or more movement.

 

[lash]

I find it hard to believe that guys shooting a gas gun match have a problem bringing their pistols along for the ride. I've done it for LR matches before and it's not a big deal. Grab your carry pistol and a couple boxes of cheap ammo and your holster. Unless you don't own a pistol, in which case I suggest that you get one.

I've never found the pistol portions of a long gun match to be too challenging and it adds a nice change of pace to a match. Obviously I differ in opinion on the matter.

Give it time and I think that there will be plenty of people signing up for these matches in the future. No need to throw out the baby with the bath water.

 

[atomic41]

The pistol sections are a big part of what got me excited about it. I just put together a rifle for this and plan to do some. Having a Tac Light class, and pistol would even things out quite a bit which is very appealing. I like the pistol idea so much, I want to pitch it to some of our local match directors to add a stage or two with a pistol. I hope the idea grows.

 

[simpy16]

Currently we're still having 2 matches in the NW area. MGM Ironman and the RBros Gas match, which I am running. I'm not sure why the low turnout so far, but if I need to drop the pistol portion to get more shooters I have no problem doing that and just adding more rifle rounds or more movement.

I doubt it is the pistol part that is really keeping people from taking part. This is my first year of competing but I feel like several of my local club matches have had a mix of either pistol or carbine with a precision rifle. Yes it does make for more "stuff" to bring and carry but not a whole lot more than the average person carries during a competition anyways.

I wonder if in peoples eyes it feels too much like 3 gun and they are not interested in style of competition. Do people have a hard time believing that gas gun can equal precision gun?

I know the MGM Ironman has been a really well attended 3 gun event in the past but it seems like registration has been really slow for that event with this format, just hard to explain what the root of the disconnect between the desire to have the series from PRS officials and competitors alike and what is playing out in registrations.

 

[JLR]

I can't quite figure out the disconnect either. The series has a lot to offer and I'm just not sure the 3gun crowd thinks they have the right equipment to play in the PRS game as they believe the match will be structured. Little do many of them know, all they have to do is put a decent 10x optic on and go kick some ass. The pistol shooting part they should clean up on, and up to 50% of the stages are unlimited round count with a max range of 800 yds. Travis, as well as myself, know how to put on a fun match so any shooters that come to our matches are going to be in for a good time! What will help is if anyone that wants to see it succeed pushes shooters to sign up.

 

[rymart]

I wonder if in peoples eyes it feels too much like 3 gun and they are not interested in that style of competition.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ For me it's this. Up until a couple months ago I competed in regular PRS matches with a gas gun. I sometimes wished they would add a gas gun division, so I was understandably excited when I saw news of the gas gun series.... Until I read the fine print and saw that; scoring will be time based, maximum shot distance shall not exceed 800 yards, unlimited round stages, etc. What drew me to PRS was the precision and long range part of it. I get time limits as a stressor but have no interest in a sole/primarily time-based scoring criteria. Too much like 3-gun for me. I'm not the young, sleek, high speed type and the new gas gun series doesn't sound like my kind of game. Don't get me wrong, if a match lands in my backyard, I'll go out and give it a try, but I'm not travelling far out of my way for one when there are closer regular PRS matches.

Do people have a hard time believing that gas gun can equal precision gun?

In accuracy? I've had at least one barrel on a gas gun that made me a believer. That said, a bolt gun is more forgiving to shoot, especially from compromised positions. My scores have gone up since switching to a bolt gun.

 

[BigCountree]

I am competing in the Gas Gun Match at K&M on Memorial Day weekend. Most comfortable with my .308, so I will be competing in the tactical heavy division. This will be my first PRS match of any sort, so I'm really looking forward to it!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The Gas Gun series sounds awesome. As an avid 3 Gunner that's primarily a rifleman at heart I've been waiting for something like this to come along. The pistol aspect is just a bonus and won't hurt my scores at all, most long gunners I know have atrocious pistol skills. I've talked guys into trying 3 gun and they all liked the rifle and pistol shooting but have no desire to practice shotgun so it eats their lunch every time. They would all prefer the Gas Gun series to 3 gun.

 

[JLR]

The Gas Gun series sounds awesome. As an avid 3 Gunner that's primarily a rifleman at heart I've been waiting for something like this to come along. The pistol aspect is just a bonus and won't hurt my scores at all, most long gunners I know have atrocious pistol skills. I've talked guys into trying 3 gun and they all liked the rifle and pistol shooting but have no desire to practice shotgun so it eats their lunch every time. They would all prefer the Gas Gun series to 3 gun.

Then by all means get out and sign up for some matches with all your buddies. Not sure where you're located, but there's two great matches happening in the NW. MGM Ironman and the RBros Gasser match.
https://practiscore.com/mgm-targets-ironman-long-range-challenge/register

https://practiscore.com/r-bros-rifles-gas-gun-challenge/register

 

[bab029]

In the couple matches I've shot that a pistol was required, the handgun and ammo was provided for the stage. The targets were softballs and the whole deal was more to challenge your time management skills than to assess your pistol skills. Typically it has required the shooter to shoot a few pistl targets and then move to another location with or without gear to set up the rifle shot, all under time. I think the PRS should remain rifle-focused so this type of stage keeps the gaming to a minimum and doesn't detract from the rifle portion. I suppose what I really don't want to see is a significant blurring of the line between 3-gun and PRS.

 

[ponchair]

I'd like everyone to shoot a PRS gas gun match before they post to this topic with a conjecture ridden answer. If you want to have an opinion on the direction and longevity of this series, shoot a match or few and then decide if the PRS has a good thing going. Judging from the sidelines does nothing good for the sport.

 

[lash]

ponchair , while I applaud your sentiment, reality dictates that when approaching something very new with no or little experience base, conjecture (and therefore active discussion and interest) rules the discussion. I posit that it is too new for there to be a broad based discussion of only those that have participated in the gas gun series.

For now, I propose that any discussion that brings attention to the series is good for it. If you are involved or otherwise interested in it, then post your opinion and experience instead of trying to limit discussion.

FWIW...

 

[ponchair]

ponchair , while I applaud your sentiment, reality dictates that when approaching something very new with no or little experience base, conjecture (and therefore active discussion and interest) rules the discussion. I posit that it is too new for there to be a broad based discussion of only those that have participated in the gas gun series.

For now, I propose that any discussion that brings attention to the series is good for it. If you are involved or otherwise interested in it, then post your opinion and experience instead of trying to limit discussion.

FWIW...

lash I stand firm with my original post, but I will bite. After shooting both matches, accuracy and time management is key. Expecting to blow through a stage and missing targets, yields high penalties. You must be fast and you must be accurate. The pistol portion is every bit as important as the rifle, if the MD allows pistol into the match. If you don't like pistol, stick to bolt gun. The Outback match was brutal, with winds in excess of 30 mph. Toughest match to date. The direction of the matches is right on par for success. I expect great things to come. So again, sign up, shoot a match and then make a judgement.

I was fortunate to pick up one of these awesome trophies. [IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/7nFoRMF.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[lash]

Great post! Exactly as it should be, but you have to admit that it's a very new series and as such will fuel discussion and speculation. Your post helps throw some perspective on it for those that have yet to try it.

 

[ponchair]

My fear has always been this, people over analyze and spin wheels thinking instead of doing. I just want more people to compete, and decide for themselves. I agree, its newness does warrant speculation. It's a lot of fun, but the ultimate prize is the comradery.

 

[simpy16]

ponchair Thanks for the first person account of what the matches are like and the perspective you need to have when doing one. I started the discussion because I have a genuine question on why so many of the early matches have had to be cancelled. I am in my first year of competing and so far have participated in local monthly 'PRS" style matches, a local field practical series, Rifleman Team Challenge 2 man events, as well as the Idaho NRL match in March. I am just trying to get a feel for the different competitions and structures that are out there to see what I like best and might want to focus more on in the future. The Gas Gun series interests me because I learned to shoot long range on a 6.5 creed gas gun I built and even used that in the local PRS matches for a few months until I could build a bolt gun. I would really like to participate in one of the matches but I am not sure if time or funds will allow it this year, so my hope is that it will see a Year 2 so that I can plan my schedule around making one. Congrats on the 1st place!

 

[ddavis]

The Outback match was a blast. It was the first gas gun match I shot but hopefully not the last. The equipment demands are low. My AR shoots 1-1.5 moa on any given day and I'm shooting Hornady 75 BTHP at 2750ish. I'm using a Primary Arms scope. I've probably got $1500 in the whole setup. While the scoring is time based, you absolutely cannot afford to miss targets. Adding 30 seconds to your time for every miss will kill your score. It is very much precision based, even on the unlimited round count stages which I really enjoyed. It was neat seeing your impact 3 feet off the target and taking a couple quick followup shots to walk it in without having to worry about how many rounds you burned. Pistol in this type of match is generally very easy and just meant to trip you up and get you flustered before you move to the rifle. It's nothing you can't do with any standard pistol.

My squad was great and we all had a good time. Honestly this match seemed more laid back than the average bolt gun match for whatever reason. People were just there to burn a bunch of ammo and have a good time.

Also, that Pirtle, so hot right now.

 

[_shawn_]

i was a wandering ro at the outback match and i wouldn't expect to see many 3 gunners in the gas gun series. i never heard any complaints from the bolt guys except for the 30 mph winds but every 3 gunner i ran into cried, whined, and bitched about almost every aspect of the match. a lot of the 3 gunners were trying to game the rifle parts or just not shoot the long range rifle stages until the ro's told them about the penalties, then they cried and whined but eventually shot the stage. there were quite a few 3 gunners who didn't show up for day 2

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Those pussies. Well to hell with them, this 3 gunner actually likes practicing long range rifle from awkward positions. Sometimes I'll go really crazy and not empty a 40 round mag at 2 targets!

 

[BattleAxe]

I've shot 2 gas gun matches, both at Core. Both matches had a great turnout. One interesting note is that I've talked to a few bolt competitors and you'd be surprised at how many don't know a thing about gas guns, and they're not ashamed to admit it. That said, the low turn-out at some of these likely has a combination of factors. To use the "pistol" analogy...

I'm one of those guys that doesn't like to run pistol at a PRS match. I own LOTS of pistols and can handle them quite well but the thing is...I don't take 4 days away from my business and spend LOTS of money to shoot pistol. I can do that at home for virtually free. I go to these events (when I can) to be able to shoot long range at a world class facility which is something I simply cannot do at home. In my mind, every stage wasted on pistol is a stage I don't get to shoot long range rifle, which is the primary reason I attend these events. Maybe there are some that look at gassers the same way, who knows but it was definitely a slightly different crowd at the gasser matches.

 

[Shoots 700's]

I shot my first prs match in May. I have been a long time 3 gunner, and would not like shooting pistol in a prs match.

 

[HuntinBuddy80]

Just wondering why the drop off/change in some matches. I noticed there was a match in Alabama at the end of July that is no longer out there. Also noticed the change of the finale from Rockcastle in KY to TX in October. I shot the match at K&M in May and really enjoyed the change of pace the gas guns just for something different. Just curious if maybe the turnout wasnt good enough to continue?

 

[Lowlight]

Part of the change was Ryan Castle moving to 3GUN Precision and leaving the PRS.

Also for the record, we always had Pistol stages in our Precision RIfle matches prior to the PRS. The reason they stopped was a guy shooting himself in the leg at K&M / CORE early on. The PRS decided no pistol stages after that. At Rifles Only we used the Pistol Stages for a lot of fun events, it was common places to have several pistol stages. The pistol hits are usually 2 shots on target per 1 point. It's not a game changer points wise.

The pistol should be part of it as it's your defensive weapon vs the bolt gun.

 

[branson1369]

Part of the change was Ryan Castle moving to 3GUN Precision and leaving the PRS.

Also for the record, we always had Pistol stages in our Precision RIfle matches prior to the PRS. The reason they stopped was a guy shooting himself in the leg at K&M / CORE early on. The PRS decided no pistol stages after that. At Rifles Only we used the Pistol Stages for a lot of fun events, it was common places to have several pistol stages. The pistol hits are usually 2 shots on target per 1 point. It's not a game changer points wise.

The pistol should be part of it as it's your defensive weapon vs the bolt gun.

Woody and I found adding pistol to our long range matches to include the PRS events we hosted to be one of the best shooter stressors even with generous size targets that only burned time on the clock while Being neutralized. We saw shooter continually to get better with pistol as well