Gunsmithing What is the longest time a gunsmith took?
- Thread starter kimberyote
- Start date
What the hell is wrong with you folks??? I guess me being fromt he South makes me a little hot tempered but if I gave somebody a couple grand and it took over a few month's (being we wern't waiting on a barrel or parts), I'd be on the first plane out to see his ass, face to face. I searched around and found a smith within driving distance with a excellent rep(hall of fame benchrest shooter). Sent him the parts 3 weeks ago, he did the smithing work, sent the parts to kampfeld for fluting, did stock work and bedded it yesterday so I can pick it up Thursday and he can go over it with me. F all that, I like to shoot not wait.
Once I ordered a custom rifle from an unnamed CO smith...almost 2 1/2 years..no rifle no communication..finally I paid a lawyer to write a letter threatening suit in federal court..
then I got my money... deposit back...not a pleasant experience.
then I got my money... deposit back...not a pleasant experience.
I sent every single part ready for the lathe on a simple bolt action rebarrel to a smith. I paid 100% upfront. 3 month delivery date stated. 18 months after I sent it, he returned my phone call. He ignored certified letters, emails, phone calls, etc.
I decided I was done with that mess. I don't do business with people who can't make any effort to communicate.
I thought paying only deposit would help that. I have a handgun smith working on three for me now. 3.5 years and counting. I owe him 2/3 of the last handgun's cost still.
I'm done with that. I have buddies on here that take great care of me. I'm saving for a lathe and mill so I can do it in my free time at home.
I decided I was done with that mess. I don't do business with people who can't make any effort to communicate.
I thought paying only deposit would help that. I have a handgun smith working on three for me now. 3.5 years and counting. I owe him 2/3 of the last handgun's cost still.
I'm done with that. I have buddies on here that take great care of me. I'm saving for a lathe and mill so I can do it in my free time at home.
Has anyone sought legal recourse to get a gun back from a smith? I have one that I cannot get back. I have sent a shipping label, told him I don't even care about the money... He has said he would ship it back twice now and he hasn't.
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I have 3+yrs with a smith on wait.
sent 50% up front in Dec. 09. ordered 12k total in 3 rifles.
changed order up last year cause I was finally at the WTF stage. sent him some parts and got one back. tikka in krg chassis, he didn't have to do anything other than put the action and barrel in chassis. I sent him all parts.
finally, literally, last week, was able to get refund and other parts I had sent him: optics, etc. even have 2 XLR's now with nothing in them.
He, I think, is now retired due to medical reasons, but basically I feel like I was strung along for a few years, but had the patience to deal with it. I will not go with something built again though. Off the Shelf, or nothing.
I will say that when I reach that magic 100 posts I will sell what parts I have laying around and fund a DTA lefty when they come out.
so 3+ years for some custom work that never happened. I was able to finally get a refund though.
good luck to everyone else going through something similar
sent 50% up front in Dec. 09. ordered 12k total in 3 rifles.
changed order up last year cause I was finally at the WTF stage. sent him some parts and got one back. tikka in krg chassis, he didn't have to do anything other than put the action and barrel in chassis. I sent him all parts.
finally, literally, last week, was able to get refund and other parts I had sent him: optics, etc. even have 2 XLR's now with nothing in them.
He, I think, is now retired due to medical reasons, but basically I feel like I was strung along for a few years, but had the patience to deal with it. I will not go with something built again though. Off the Shelf, or nothing.
I will say that when I reach that magic 100 posts I will sell what parts I have laying around and fund a DTA lefty when they come out.
so 3+ years for some custom work that never happened. I was able to finally get a refund though.
good luck to everyone else going through something similar
Man, I tell ya.... some of the stories that I've read here are incredible. I'm not sure why, but I keep getting these recurring thoughts of 'cordless drill' and 'patella'.
(It's a joke, folks... but the whole situation is NOT funny)
Especially when there are so many GREAT smiths here, on THIS SITE.
(It's a joke, folks... but the whole situation is NOT funny)
Especially when there are so many GREAT smiths here, on THIS SITE.
Had a barrel threaded a few months ago by Ed Harren here in Maryland. He said a week, I expected three, he called me in ten days. Made a really trick thread protector too. Price was right.
Couple years ago I sent a barreled action out to Mike Stannard at Tornado Technologies, turnaround was a couple weeks, great price including FEDEX there and back.
I liked Mike's work so much I sent him another gun, same turnaround, then another one that sat. And sat some more. And weeks turned into months. It was a suppressed 10/22 with a bad threading/crowning job from the guy who sold me the barrel (and wouldn't reply to email or phone calls) and Mike didn't have time to take to the range. No problem. More time passed. I finally got the gun back from him, shot PERFECTLY. No charge. I was floored.
I would have sent the gun to him in January but he's so busy he's not taking new work.
Locally, I've heard of people waiting upwards of a year to eighteen months or more for Fulton Armory jobs.
Couple years ago I sent a barreled action out to Mike Stannard at Tornado Technologies, turnaround was a couple weeks, great price including FEDEX there and back.
I liked Mike's work so much I sent him another gun, same turnaround, then another one that sat. And sat some more. And weeks turned into months. It was a suppressed 10/22 with a bad threading/crowning job from the guy who sold me the barrel (and wouldn't reply to email or phone calls) and Mike didn't have time to take to the range. No problem. More time passed. I finally got the gun back from him, shot PERFECTLY. No charge. I was floored.
I would have sent the gun to him in January but he's so busy he's not taking new work.
Locally, I've heard of people waiting upwards of a year to eighteen months or more for Fulton Armory jobs.
I don't claim to know the federal gun laws to a tee, but if you sent a rifle reciever to a gunsmith he is in possesion of your gun. That, to me at least, is theft. By deception if nothing else. Like I said earlier, I don't think that this course of action is appropriate for all situations, but after years of waiting and no response to certified letters I'd call the ATF. I simply called my local office and spoke with a agent. Explained that I had paid for the reciever, but that it had yet to be legally transferred to me, and that the smith wasn't responding to calls, emails, or cert. letters. He said that although the ATF did not consider the gun to belong to me, since it was never legally transferred, he would call the smith to see what the holdup was. A week later I had my gun.
For you guys that actually have proof of ownership of a receiver(gun for the ATF's purposes) I'd see what they can do for you. If smithing is their primamry income I think a call from the ATF would be very motivating. Sorry to hear that you guys are being jerked around so much, that just isn't right.
For you guys that actually have proof of ownership of a receiver(gun for the ATF's purposes) I'd see what they can do for you. If smithing is their primamry income I think a call from the ATF would be very motivating. Sorry to hear that you guys are being jerked around so much, that just isn't right.
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I don't know what it is about gunsmiths, but I have NEVER had a full custom job come in at, or below, the price and wait they quoted me. But I have found that if you get buddy-buddy with a 'smith and have a gun problem they will turn it around ultra-fast for you.
Also, I really prefer dealing with a 'smith that is only a state or two away in case I have an issue and want to go pick the gun up. And sadly, as I type this, I have a gun in AZ being built...
Also, I really prefer dealing with a 'smith that is only a state or two away in case I have an issue and want to go pick the gun up. And sadly, as I type this, I have a gun in AZ being built...
I've read the entire thread and I think I'm holding the record so far. Placed order, sent action 12/2007. Received finished rifle 11/2013. That's right, almost 6 yrs.
Learned my lesson. Purchased a lathe and mill. I would much rather spend the next six yrs fucking my own projects up, but learning nonetheless. That being said, I have a new found respect for gunsmiths, especially some of the talent featured here on the Hide. You make it look so damn easy.
Learned my lesson. Purchased a lathe and mill. I would much rather spend the next six yrs fucking my own projects up, but learning nonetheless. That being said, I have a new found respect for gunsmiths, especially some of the talent featured here on the Hide. You make it look so damn easy.
Amen molonlave, I waited 5 years for a rifle once. After that I bought my own lathe and mill and started spraying cerakote. Now I dont wait on anyone except me & if its not what I want its my fault.
Casey
There are exceptions to this rule thou. We have a local smith Sid Goodling. Considered to be one of the best in the country. He tell you up front for a complete build he is 3 years out,,,,,! But just rebarreling still he turns around in a mouth or so!
I am at 17 months right now on a gradous build, but based on his reputation I'm not worried, and have every confidence I will love it when it is done. The guys that are good and well known are busy. I guess if you need it fast you better buy off the shelf like an AI or find an up and coming smith that is good but not as well known.
I dropped a TNW 9mm barrel off at my local "gunsmith" 9 days ago to get threaded. He has the lathe right there in his store, I watched him test the barrel and say it's an easy day to do. I emailed him today and he may get to it this weekend. I loathe people who waste my time. Loathe.
These horror stories make me feel better about my small problems. Ordered a rifle from GAP last year. Was told 6 months, it was done in 6 months, but they didn't let me know. Called them at 6-1/2 months and found out and Ken shipped it the same day. Currently have a build being done by a well-respected Hide gunsmith. Was quoted 3-6 weeks, a little over 3 months later and it 'should' be done in the next week or so. My anxiousness has been unjustified after reading this thread. GAP is definitely at the top of my list after hear hearing about the alternatives.
Just my opinion but there has to be some serious federal legal issues pertaining to firearms if the smith is unwilling to communicate with you about your firearm. I would think that you could easily make a quick phone call to the local authorities or the ATF and get them involved. If I sent someone a rifle and was told a 9 months I would expect the shop to be communicating with me at least a couple of times a month on progress, as soon as communication stopped I would start to get worried. I can't believe that people have sent certified letters and not had any response from them. I would go through the F'ing roof! That is theft in my eyes.
+1...waited 15 months for Robert to finish mine. Fortuanately I was very pleased with the work he did and the accuracy it produces.
I have only sent a deposit once and won't do it again, the way I see it if you want my money you got to do the work.
This is all nonsense, a reputable smith builds a rifle in a couple of days or so............................the wait is time in line because of work scheduled before you. If they tell you "so many months out, etc." it should be pretty darn close. If there is an unexpected delay you should be informed accordingly, none of this failure to return calls, e-mails, etc. Look what Marc did on the recent Hide Build...........way ahead of schedule (THANKS FRANK FOR PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER!!) and provided lots of timely feedback. Chad Dixon appears to crank out the work from his shop, at least the members here communicate so (if he didn't, they'd be bitching) I've had exceptional results from Alan Warner and Jon Beanland too. Now, if we're talking you are told it will take 18 months and you think you're special and start whining in 6 months then....................... How can there be so many overdue, non-communicating smiths still in business? Look at recent events, news travels fast!
I'm not saying who yet, maybe later if it takes more than another month. Was told 2 months, been almost 4. What I don't buy and dislike is the statements from some here like, be patient, you'll be glad, blah blah blah. Quoted time should be pretty accurate, they should know how long this stuff takes. Poster above is correct, most of these guys/co's are just stacking work.
Of course they are stacking work...they take your order in turn how else could they run a business? When your build is number 50 in line how could anyone possibly give an accurate timeline? It is an estimate and doesn't account for inevitable delays, problems with other customers, family stuff, and life in general. If you need it fast or are squeezing it in before a certain comp or deployment then you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Small work, or stuff like a bolt knob is different, but an entire build is another matter with the top smiths these guys are busy and usually have long lines. It doesn't help when people call for updates on a build 9 months out every week, or the spec changes over and over. When my estimate approached, I called and got another one. Never communicating is another issue, but respect works both ways and frankly most of these guys have plenty of people to take your place if your are pestering the $&!! out of them. Frankly, I am more comfortable with thousands of dollars of parts tied up with a top smith that has a busy schedule than I would be a "fast guy" of unknown reputation. If you take a chance on an more unknown guy, that's a good thing to, but might justify a little more oversight. To each his own, but we need to be realistic. Paying people for a service doesn't make them a slave or a servant. Not trying to defend the few bad actors out there, they need to be called out, but there are bad customers too.
month and a half to drill and tap a mauser for a scope base. went back every week or so to check on it. figured it would be a quick deal but i guess not. when i finally got it back i took off the base to check everything and everything was covered with cutting oil and something that looked like white grease. one of the threads was pretty well gummed up, seemed like it was the wrong size for the screws i gave him. good amount of shavings under the base and in all of the threads too. had the nerve to charge me $70 for it too when the quote for it was $40. not much you can do when the guy has already done the work and won't give you the gun back without paying him. he was the only smith in the city and one of a small handful in the county. shame.
Some of these stories are sad for sure.i once bought a rifle from a local gun smith that the owner died waiting for him to complete.i didn't think much of it until reading this post, I wonder how long he had the rifle because he is very very slow.i don't use him anymore because he is very slow .Once took him 6 months to remove my barrel from my lapua, funny thing is he said it only took him 30 minutes to do it, good thing is he didn't charge me.as a custom car builder I know sometimes there can be unforseen delays and they should be accompanied by comunications, usually that's all I ask.
I had to wait 9 months for a muzzle brake once. I was told a few weeks but one excuse led to another until I finally got it back 9 months later. They decided to "coat" the barrel in some Teflon like crap for my troubles without consulting me first. Not only does the barrel heat up 10 times faster, I figured my barrel was probably so rusted up from sitting in a shop unattended for so long they just covered it up and sent it back. Good thing it was just a factory Remington barrel off a 700P but still.......
He's had my rifle for 15 months right now. Its about time for another call to see when he's going to get to it.
THIS.
This thread, and other repair scams I've been dealing with lately, have motivated me to make a new rule. Trust no one. Do it myself or it won't get done.
If I knew a gunsmith personally AND they had demonstrated trustworthiness on countless occasions AND I were impressed with their skill, then I MIGHT let them work on my gun. If I would trust them to do a vasectomy on me, MAYBE I'd let them work on my gun. But I don't know any gunsmiths.
Industries like this, involving personal craftsmanship, need to be above reproach to exist. It amazes me that self-employed craftsmen (& women) can survive with questionable (or no) morals.
This thread, and other repair scams I've been dealing with lately, have motivated me to make a new rule. Trust no one. Do it myself or it won't get done.
If I knew a gunsmith personally AND they had demonstrated trustworthiness on countless occasions AND I were impressed with their skill, then I MIGHT let them work on my gun. If I would trust them to do a vasectomy on me, MAYBE I'd let them work on my gun. But I don't know any gunsmiths.
Industries like this, involving personal craftsmanship, need to be above reproach to exist. It amazes me that self-employed craftsmen (& women) can survive with questionable (or no) morals.
I find it funny that every body says that the smith they called on to do there work or had build there rifle is "one of the best in the country". What exactly makes them one of the best and what do you use to determine this? Is it because they talk a good line to you or maybe they were recommended to you as one of the best in the country? I have dealt with a few rifle smiths and tons of pistol smiths and I have seen good ones and complete hacks. I would never wait yrs to have any firearm built and if I sent thousands of dollars and my gun to a smith and he hadn't returned my phone calls after a month you can damn well bet I would spend a few hundred dollars on a plane ticket to talk to him face to face. I still wonder though what makes them the "BEST" ? Is it fast turn around time? Beautiful craftsmanship? A rifle that shoots incredibly well? There are some real nightmare stories on here and it makes me really wonder who to trust in this business.
My sentiments Exactly!
On the other hand. What about the guys that call and call about their gun and when you finally get it done, they never pick it up? I have some that were finished 10 yrs ago.
Generally in my shop the main wait time for a rebarrel is dependent on whether you are custom ordering a barrel or just buying whatever may be in stock, but I dont know of any barrel wait times that would set you back 19+ months. I always give an estimated wait time once we discuss our project. I would surely get on his case over this one.
ruhlandrifles.com
ruhlandrifles.com
This thread is one of the main reasons I bought an AI. The only shops I have done business with are AO & Tooley. I would use either in a heartbeat, but I like being able to buy off the shelf like you can with AI.
What you said. My AI/AE was just as accurate and much more reliable than a custom rifle I had to wait for. I would not have the patience to wait the times some have mentioned here, life is way too short. I had to wait 3 months from the time I preordered my AT until I got it a couple of weeks ago and that was hard enough.
Dropped all parts off at my smith on the 17th of March for a rebarrel with the barrel in hand. Quote time was 4 weeks which surprised me. Gave him 8 weeks and sent an email with No response. On the 9th week I sent a text message with no response. And last week I called him 3 times and left 3 Messages with still no response. I'm approaching 10 weeks now I guess we'll see what happens.
What is the longest time a gunsmith took?
Gave Heinie deposits for his waiting list in 1998. Asked for the deposits back in 2008, and sent copies of the receipts. Haven't received either the deposits or any build slot yet.
It's (probably) not worth suing him for $75, so I'll just have to be content with getting ripped-off.
Gave Heinie deposits for his waiting list in 1998. Asked for the deposits back in 2008, and sent copies of the receipts. Haven't received either the deposits or any build slot yet.
It's (probably) not worth suing him for $75, so I'll just have to be content with getting ripped-off.
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This topic always seems to come up from time to time. In my opinion, the various companies stack work and the larger names seems to have the longest wait since more people feel comfortable with their work---and actually getting their rifles back one day. It's one thing going in knowing the waiting time, but it's another when you are told a time and it goes well over that time frame. When I say over, I'm talking month or more. The other thing is if taking in work and the builder is supplying the parts--THEN HAVE THE FUCKING BARREL IN STOCK! especially when giving a time frame for the build.
The one thing that does irritate me is when the nut jugglers post "be patient", blah, blah, blah---
I'm in the middle of a build and if it wasn't for wanting a particular set up, I would just get another AI as well. I really wish they would get into hunting type guns, for those who do more than set up a hide on a field.
The one thing that does irritate me is when the nut jugglers post "be patient", blah, blah, blah---
I'm in the middle of a build and if it wasn't for wanting a particular set up, I would just get another AI as well. I really wish they would get into hunting type guns, for those who do more than set up a hide on a field.
I'm at about 6 months with my current build but I knew going into it that it would be a long wait since I wanted the barrel spiral fluted. I ended up making it a switch barrel rifle about a month ago by asking the smith to chamber another barrel in .260. I'm sure I added several months to the build but I am not concerned about it. I've had several rifles built by him and know that it can take a while to get barrels depending on the configuration.
