What is the minimum Max magnification you are using and Mil or MOA turrets?

[GrumpyOleFart]

When someone pushes the flawed belief of MOA being superior to Milliradian.....

 

[Leland T]

Magnification I watch all of the NRL videos and the interviews with the top competitors and the equipment they use. One competitor stated he only shoots between 14-18 power but was looking forward to getting a scope with 30+ magnification. His reasoning was 30-35 power will have optimal clarity in the mid magnification range.

 

[StLPro2A]

I edited that. I stay in 15-20 for general shooting. The way out there ELR guys can add their suggestions. Mostly my magnification use comes down to,

1) Mirage- I’ll crank the power to read mirage but shoot on lower power for better clarity

2) With the recoil of the rifle I like to keep the scope backed off slightly to have a larger field of view to spot misses so I can correct for follow up shots

I’ve shot out past a mile a few times which I consider decent range. But in today’s world ELR is well beyond that now. I’m assuming the field of view wouldn’t be so much an issue as seeing impacts through the scope at very long distances can be a challenge anyways.

So the mirage on that particular day would have an effect on what magnification I can run

For fclass (1,000 yard) we start off the morning on 45-55 power. By noon your shooting sometimes (same target/distance) on 15 power due to heavy mirage

A little lower power aids in picking up vapor trails when spotting own shot.

 

[Runnineh]

Hi,

Mirage is more of a pain to deal with in MOA scopes or MIL scopes?

Sincerely,
Theis

Gold

 

[Greg Langelius *]

"Cheap" or "Inexpensive" there is a difference.

I have lots of fun with a Remington varmint wearing an inexpensive 3-9X Leupold with capped turrets.

With torso sized targets and holding mil dots I don't worry about the internals not returning to zero because I don't move anything.....just hold.

This is my strategy, too; to eliminate changing knob settings.

I have 8 of the Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC scopes, several with the 223 designation, several with the 308 designation, and one with the 6.5CM designation. They are mounted on my serious AR's and Bolt Rifles.

They all share a common methodology. They are all zeroed at 100yd and the elevation and windage knobs are left there. The reticle has additional distance tik marks serving as predesignated aiming points, formulated to correspond to regular 100yd intervals going outward. They are on at 100, then have ticks for additional hundreds of yards going on out to 600yd. One exception; the 6.5CM reticle has marks for out to 850yd. Aiming is done at maximum magnification, to sync the reticles with the actual distances.

They work, and nicely too. With the 223 and 308 bolt guns, shots have been tested on steel at 100, 200, and 300yd, hitting all three targets within a total of 30 seconds on a KD range. My available KD range is limited to 300yd. Faster is possible, but I hate to rush my shots. No knobs get touched in the process, the reticle handles all the range issues. It helps greatly to partner the scope with a laser range finder, and a range card can also be helpful. For the AR's, the process can be faster.

Now comes the interesting part. The 223's are on my 223's. The 308's are on my 308s and my 6.5 Grendels (the trajectories are so close that they are within 5" at 500yd). The 6.5CM scope is on my 260, which tends to shoot in direct parallel with the 6.5CM. There's another factor with all BDC scopes, they do not factor in the effects of altitude. In essence; they're all off to some varying degree.

It is perfect? Nope; it limits the max range to the highest distance with an aiming point, typically 600yd, and in the one case, 850yd. It's not super precise, but I'm not looking for perfection, just enough precision to put fire into, or close to, the target. But in many cases, mine included, it imposes a KYL (Know Your Limits) restriction that probably increases hit probability. At these distances, the rounds are all well into the supersonic regime. For many of us, that's a plus. Another plus; it's not Chinese made, it comes out of So. Korea. The optics could be better, but for what it costs, they're quite good enough for me.

There's a bit more but it's rapidly becoming academic. You see, Bushnell has discontinued many of the line of scopes, including the ones I use. Some remain in retailer inventory; but they are few, and going fast.

I noted about a year ago that they were not so much available, and I contacted the firm. I got back a boilerplate line about how they were no longer selling. I immediately and repeatedly warned shooters on this site that these scopes were being eliminated. I also saw to it that my own needs were met.

Maybe the explanation holds water, but the only remaining BDC solution I can find that they will be carrying requires changing elevation knobs for different chamberings, and also involves knob manipulation to marked distances when changing distances. Oh, and it costs between 3 and 4 times as much.

I've done what I can to warn this site about this unique and affordable product's demise, and the situation simply doesn't pass my personal sniff test. I'd rather not say more on the matter.

Do as you see fit.

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Magnification I watch all of the NRL videos and the interviews with the top competitors and the equipment they use. One competitor stated he only shoots between 14-18 power but was looking forward to getting a scope with 30+ magnification. His reasoning was 30-35 power will have optimal clarity in the mid magnification range.

He's probably right, but I doubt that the difference will be substantial, or maybe even noticeable. The one thing I can say for sure is that it will be more expensive.

I own a (three actually) scope that reaches to 32X, and I use it as described above. I find that (with many scopes, not just the one), mirage limits me to about 16x-18x at the greater distances, but that the higher magnifications have very real value at closer distances, where they allow one to split the hair better. Having 1/8MOA clicks can also help.

When one uses the higher mags at the longer distances, one plays the mirage crap shoot. Very simply, the target is stationary; but thermals are constantly varying air density and refraction, so its image is dodging all over the place. One must make a probability judgement about where to place the crosshair, and just how close that image is to the true POA.

Some of us play craps better than others, but in the end, random chance rules. It's not magic, but it's close...

Greg

 

[Greg Langelius *]

It occurs to me that I never answered your original question, what knobs/reticles do I use?

Mil-Dots have their best use in UKD (Unknown Distance) shooting where they are used as a means to determine a range estimation. They have limitations, but are used by the military, and by many competitors who favor the 'games' format for their comps.

I don't shoot much, if any, UKD; and render UKD's to KD's by use of a laser rangefinder. This fits in with my equipment and methodology mentioned above.

Consequently, I use MOA/MOA wherever possible and use a conversion factor (Mils to MOA) when equipment makes this necessary, I can't really say I'm very good at that.

I learned my LR shooting using MOA exclusively. I don't carry calculators (by the time a wind calc is done, it's already obsolete), and really hate doing arithmetic in my head, so Mil's lose out in my preferences.

The factor I use (some others exist) is one Mil being equal to 3.6 MOA.

Greg

 

[rottenruger]

I'm told I need to know both to be proficient.

But one's enough for me out to 1000.

So I'm a happy shooter without twin scopes.

 

[rottenruger]

My professional opinion is that everything is more of a pain to deal with in MOA, unless it’s both MOA and SFP at known distance

So does that mean I need to replace 13 scopes and one brain?

 

[demolitionman]

When someone pushes the flawed belief of MOA being superior to Milliradian.....View attachment 7584022

Pretty sure we all know, that the smaller the adjustment the better for precise shots. That’s why I heard ZCO is coming out with the smaller graduated turret adjustments ever put forth on a scope; MOF turrets. I emailed and asked them how much their new scope is going to cost; they replied: “everything”.

 

[Texasflyer]

I have a FFP in MRAD. Its a 3x15 mag because i also hunt with it and where im at in Texas its hard to shoot past 1000 yds. Its perfect for the 350 to 600 yd coyote and hog shots though.

 

[Rob01]

Super high magnification for ELR is not really needed. I have shot 408s to 2500 yards on 17x and that was on MOA sized targets so larger would be easy as well. Shot 12" steel at a mile with my Razor 4.5-27x on about 25x without a problem also. No need for 35x or more for ELR in my experience.

Also something to look at and think about is the elevation available as you will need elevation for ELR. Most of the high 35+ powered scopes have limited internal elevation so would make getting to the longer ranges harder.