What M4 to buy?

Seuss

Seuss

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 22, 2001
388
5
62
York, PA USA mostly
#1
My son, known to many 'Hiders as Mini, is doubling down by turning 18 and graduating in a 11 day span.
Going to surprise him with his 1st officially owned firearm, looking for a good M4 , but not a $2k budget buster.
Any advice is both welcome and appreciated.
Thanks guys.
 
#5
Direct Assault said:
My first ar/m4 was an $800 bushmaster ORC. It was more than enough for a first ar and it left a lot of room for mods which is the best part
Click to expand...

something like this isn't a bad idea. leaves a little money for an optic as well. for a first gun and gift at that age I would be more than thrilled.

my first ar was a bushy xm15 by the way. it functioned flawlessly with the thousands of rounds I put through it until the day I sold it to build my custom sbr.
 
#8
Why not build one with your son? It would be much more memorable for him I'm sure. Otherwise if you want to blow the entire cash load on the gun I'd say Daniel Defense or a Colt. If you want to buy a gun and budget in a nice optic a Windham Weaponry ar15 will get the job done.
 
#11
I've owned a number of D.I. Colt AR-15's since the early 1970's and still own several. While they are all great rifles, the M-4 style rifle I have really come to like is the Sig 516 Piston rifle.

The only downside is it has a carbine length hand guard and I would have preferred a mid length one.

**EDIT** I just looked on Sig's site and they have 2 "Carbon" models that have slightly longer hand guards, but the retail is about $1800.00+.
 
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#19
For $1200, you won't beat a BCM Middy or Rifle.

Buy a lower and upper separate, and slap them together (to avoid the 11% FET)

a Colt 6920 from walmart/online (950-1050) is also a solid gun, just not a fan of carbine gas systems in 16" guns.

For a first gun, I would do the A2 Colt or A4 BCM. 20" gun will teach him how to shoot with irons much easier. Down the road he decide what he wants, but its hard to beat learning on a 20" gun with A2 stock.

BCM 20 A4 Rifle MOD 1 at G and R Tactical
Colt AR15A4 20 Rifle at G and R Tactical

Some other quality options:

16" Carbine
Colt 6721 (OUT OF STOCK) at G and R Tactical
Colt LE 6920 at G and R Tactical
Colt LE6920MP-B Magpul MOE Black (OUT OF STOCK) at G and R Tactical
M4 16 Carbine MOD 1 at G and R Tactical

16" Middy
BCM 16 Mid-Length MOD 0 (OUT OF STOCK) at G and R Tactical
BCM RECCE-16 KMR MK2 at G and R Tactical

Son will love you forever
KAC - SR15 E3 MOD1 16.1"
 
#23
Cobracutter said:
For $1200, you won't beat a BCM Middy or Rifle.

Buy a lower and upper separate, and slap them together (to avoid the 11% FET)

a Colt 6920 from walmart/online (950-1050) is also a solid gun, just not a fan of carbine gas systems in 16" guns.

For a first gun, I would do the A2 Colt or A4 BCM. 20" gun will teach him how to shoot with irons much easier. Down the road he decide what he wants, but its hard to beat learning on a 20" gun with A2 stock.

BCM 20 A4 Rifle MOD 1 at G and R Tactical
Colt AR15A4 20 Rifle at G and R Tactical

Some other quality options:

16" Carbine
Colt 6721 (OUT OF STOCK) at G and R Tactical
Colt LE 6920 at G and R Tactical
Colt LE6920MP-B Magpul MOE Black (OUT OF STOCK) at G and R Tactical
M4 16 Carbine MOD 1 at G and R Tactical

16" Middy
BCM 16 Mid-Length MOD 0 (OUT OF STOCK) at G and R Tactical
BCM RECCE-16 KMR MK2 at G and R Tactical

Son will love you forever
KAC - SR15 E3 MOD1 16.1"
Click to expand...

I too would recommend a commercial equivalent of an M16A4. It has a longer sight radius, which makes it easier to focus on the front sight, as well as understand when alignment has been perfected. For some, the target and front post will be more distinct too using the A4's small aperture. This means a more consistent hold from shot to shot. The A4's BDC will produce .5 MOA elevation and wind increments rather than the course .75 MOA increments as produced from an M4. The A4's front sight will adjust elevation 1.2 MOA units while the M4 yields 1.75 units. This means with A4 you can produce a better BSZ than with an M4. You also get more velocity from an A4, making good hits at greater distance more likely than when using an M4. In addition, the A4 is authorized for U. S. Service Rifle Competition which supports learning how to shoot. So, if accuracy at distance and learning how to shoot are more important than compactness, then the A4 is very well equipped to serve. In fact, with it you can learn everything there is to know about good shooting. On the other hand, if the rifle is just being purchased to fulfil a fantasy, like I want a SHTF rifle, then get whatever you see as floating your boat. I've come to learn most folks just want an M4 for general recreation. They are not interested in using it to learn anything or to promote their marksmanship. They're not interested in even properly zeroing the rifle for a BDC function. They are only interested in adding accessories to their rifle and other stuff that may undermine performance of the all stock gun but looks cool.
 
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#28
BCM, DD, Colt as mentioned above for an off-the-shelf solution. Cobra Cutter has the most detailed advice that I can't disagree with.

These companies follow the TDP. Alexander Arms also follows the TDP, but is not known for providing 5.56 rifles in addition to its flagship calibers, even though it does.

There is a lot more to an AR than just dropping in a bolt that says MPI on it, then spraying it with a coating, and throwing in a NiB carrier with a Gunfighter Charge Handle to make it quality.
 
#30
Colt AR15A4 20" Rifle NEW! : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com


Check this out on GB , i was just showing my wife this tonight for my Son's first AR for when he Graduates next year. It reminds me of what i used in the Army I have several nice AR's and AK's yes there are nice AK's i have Custom AR's and BCM SBR in the making i am thinking i am going to buy 2 of those Colts one for him and one for me =). It would be fun to just have a Iron Sight AR that my son and i could have fun shooting and learning more together. IF he gets into it down the line he can upgrade to more of a higher end AR.
 
#31
I am personally a big fan of Stag Arms I got my 5.56mm from them a few years ago and I have been very happy with it ever since. But you can go too wrong with Colt either. I would would go for one with a flat top receiver and a quad rail already on there. Although there is something to be said for free floating barrels, im not too sure percent wise how much more accurate that really makes the gun so it wasn't a huge consideration for me but you will definitely want to do some customization to really make it your own. I noticed you said you want an m4 not an ar15 so that means your looking for a brand that will produce a Mil spec AR so you will want to look at brand like Colt, Rock River Arms, DPMS, Stag, Bravo company, Neveski, Daniels Defense, im sure im leaving out afew but those are some good ones. As far as accessories go, don't get cheap scopes like the NC stars Go for high end optics like Leupold or the Trijicon ACOG 4x32 is a great optic for the m4 infact its what the marines primarily use on thier M4's after that you have a milion options for vertical for end grips, stocks flip up sight ect. I hope this was help full

2014-01-29 12.02.47.jpg
 
#32
One company I don't think I have heard mentioned yet is LMT.

A Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, or LMT would be a great first (and forever) rifle/carbine. Colt seems to have the lowest prices at the moment, but any of those that fit your budget and preferences would be an excellent choice.
 
#33
Mil.Dot said:
One company I don't think I have heard mentioned yet is LMT.

A Colt, BCM, Daniel Defense, or LMT would be a great first (and forever) rifle/carbine. Colt seems to have the lowest prices at the moment, but any of those that fit your budget and preferences would be an excellent choice.
Click to expand...

The problem with LMT is price... price vs value.

Years ago (10ish). It was pretty much Colt and LMT as the only two high quality, milspec uppers/guns out there.

LMT used to sell their stripped uppers sans handguards for like $450-$475. They were the driver behind the 10.5" upper, and the MK18 is based off the LMT 10.5" upper (which has since diversified).

Truth is, LMT offers nothing over Colt. They are just very similar guns built to similar tollerances with very similar (if not exact) parts sourcing/production/QC.

LMT now sells at a premium, while offering nothing over a Colt 6920 you can get at walmart for $950. You are looking at $1200-1300 for the same gun from LMT. For that cost difference, you can have a high quality FF rail installed or run a AP PRO.

The price for LMT 5.56 guns is just not worth it anymore. 10 years ago when they were the only game in town & their prices were much more competitive...........they were hands down the shit.

Today, with all the options we have and advancement in this industry, you can have a modern, FF, light, reliable gun built for the same price. There is no comparison.
 
#34
LVMED said:
Why not build one with your son? It would be much more memorable for him I'm sure. Otherwise if you want to blow the entire cash load on the gun I'd say Daniel Defense or a Colt. If you want to buy a gun and budget in a nice optic a Windham Weaponry ar15 will get the job done.
Click to expand...

RRA / DPMS / or any of a dozen others if you do not want to build.

But building is a great idea.

Don't get sucked into the premium AR15 hype. Its a gun.
 
#39
Cobracutter said:
The problem with LMT is price... price vs value.

Truth is, LMT offers nothing over Colt. They are just very similar guns built to similar tollerances with very similar (if not exact) parts sourcing/production/QC.
.
Click to expand...

No argument from me on your points. LMT can occasionally be found on sale for 10-20% of from some venders, but day to day, they are more expensive.

However, if someone prefers LMT for some reason, it's still a quality option.

(For the record, I don't own LMT and am not recommending them over the others.)
 
#42
LMT. You can buy the upper and lower separately for under $1k. Lowers are $350 everywhere with standard trigger and stock and the complete uppers can be had for $600ish on gunbroker. Aside from KAC, LMT makes hands down the highest quality AR's I've had. Plus the feel/quality of their lower parts (trigger and selector mainly) and their enhanced buffer tube is just awesome. KAC would obviously be my first choice because they come from the factory with everything you could ever ask for minus optics but they're more than you're looking to spend. Third choice would be a LMT lower with BCM mid length upper, fourth choice would be a DD rifle.
 
#43
Cobracutter said:
The problem with LMT is price... price vs value.

Years ago (10ish). It was pretty much Colt and LMT as the only two high quality, milspec uppers/guns out there.

LMT used to sell their stripped uppers sans handguards for like $450-$475. They were the driver behind the 10.5" upper, and the MK18 is based off the LMT 10.5" upper (which has since diversified).

Truth is, LMT offers nothing over Colt. They are just very similar guns built to similar tollerances with very similar (if not exact) parts sourcing/production/QC.

LMT now sells at a premium, while offering nothing over a Colt 6920 you can get at walmart for $950. You are looking at $1200-1300 for the same gun from LMT. For that cost difference, you can have a high quality FF rail installed or run a AP PRO.

The price for LMT 5.56 guns is just not worth it anymore. 10 years ago when they were the only game in town & their prices were much more competitive...........they were hands down the shit.

Today, with all the options we have and advancement in this industry, you can have a modern, FF, light, reliable gun built for the same price. There is no comparison.
Click to expand...

I slightly disagree with you on spending the extra money on an LMT. My reason is the superior trigger on the LMT over the Colt 6920. I own several Colt AR's including the 6920 and all except the 6724 Enhanced have gritty triggers. I ended up having to replace them with Geissele SSA's. That change put the out of pocket cost equal to my LMT which had a really nice stock trigger. I also have looked at quite a few newer production Colt AR's and it seems, to me at least, the fit and finish has slipped from what it was a few years back.Not so on any new LMT's I have handled.
 
#45
What M4 to buy?

ALG triggers are $35 or so. ACTs are like $65.

The colt triggers smooth up. But there's no reason to pay more for an inferior gun to get an LMT trigger. There are much better out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#46
samnev said:
I slightly disagree with you on spending the extra money on an LMT. My reason is the superior trigger on the LMT over the Colt 6920. I own several Colt AR's including the 6920 and all except the 6724 Enhanced have gritty triggers. I ended up having to replace them with Geissele SSA's. That change put the out of pocket cost equal to my LMT which had a really nice stock trigger. I also have looked at quite a few newer production Colt AR's and it seems, to me at least, the fit and finish has slipped from what it was a few years back.Not so on any new LMT's I have handled.
Click to expand...

A couple things. First, the Stock trigger on a Colt and LMT are for all intesnive purposes.... the same. Perfectly servicable for a carbine.

With that being said, LMT Defender 5.56 guns do not come with the LMT 2 stage (that is not that great of a trigger anyway). You could buy a Defender/Sopmod/2 stage lower with is $550-600 when in stock throw a LMT 16" upper for $538 and then add a LMT Auto BCG for $190...........and your at almost $1300 with no sites/mags. You could get a 6920 and it comes with sites, a few mags and you can spend the difference on a SSA or a Aimpoint Pro.


https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1040 for $1371 with rear sight but no Sopmod or https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2577 for $1600 with Sopmod and rear. As you can see you are much better off like redneck said buying componets and slapping them together yourself. You will save a good amount of cash, IF you need the LMT 2 stage and SOPMOD. Otherwise, there are better products out there for equal or less money (BCM KMR build for instance).
 
#47
Scottmilk9 said:
Have one built to your specifications, there is nothing worse than buying a gun and then replacing all the parts with aftermarket ones. Therefore you won't have a pile of parts just laying around.
Click to expand...

Most people don't know what they want , much less what they need. Everyone should start with a A2 or A4 clone and learn to shoot, maintain, diagnose and run the system before moving on. Its the single best foundation for understanding the m16/m4 platform and will yeild the best results down the road.

Building a gun is not rocket science, but the gun boards are littered with people who have zero experince (and some with) trying to roll their own and ending up with unreliable guns at best and dangerous at worst.



The one good thing about piles of parts is that they turn into franken guns.
 
#49
Cobracutter said:
A couple things. First, the Stock trigger on a Colt and LMT are for all intesnive purposes.... the same. Perfectly servicable for a carbine.

With that being said, LMT Defender 5.56 guns do not come with the LMT 2 stage (that is not that great of a trigger anyway). You could buy a Defender/Sopmod/2 stage lower with is $550-600 when in stock throw a LMT 16" upper for $538 and then add a LMT Auto BCG for $190...........and your at almost $1300 with no sites/mags. You could get a 6920 and it comes with sites, a few mags and you can spend the difference on a SSA or a Aimpoint Pro.


https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1040 for $1371 with rear sight but no Sopmod or https://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=2577 for $1600 with Sopmod and rear. As you can see you are much better off like redneck said buying componets and slapping them together yourself. You will save a good amount of cash, IF you need the LMT 2 stage and SOPMOD. Otherwise, there are better products out there for equal or less money (BCM KMR build for instance).
Click to expand...

LMT 16 in Upper Half Assembly Lewis Machine AR-15 : AR15 Parts at GunBroker.com

There's a brand new complete upper from a dealer getting ready to end for $600 + $30 shipping. Add a LMT lower for $350 and you have the rifle minus rear sight for $980. A DD fixed rear sight runs $70. That leaves $150 under his budgets which gets him 15 pmags.

I'm sorry but colt is not the same as LMT. The last 6920 I had wouldn't run with a can, I sent it in and they told me it was fine, still wouldn't run with a can when it came back. The finish sucked, the trigger sucked, the safety selector sucked, and the stock rattled around on the buffer tube. I'll take an LMT any day over a colt and they're pretty much the same price.
 
#50
Cobracutter said:
Most people don't know what they want , much less what they need. Everyone should start with a A2 or A4 clone and learn to shoot, maintain, diagnose and run the system before moving on. Its the single best foundation for understanding the m16/m4 platform and will yeild the best results down the road.
.
Click to expand...

That is the reason for research, going to a local shop, going to matches, shooting friends guns to see what they like and what they don't. The premise of asking who makes the best of anything on a board is blind faith in my opinion. Knowing what you want before you buy it similar in other purchases in our lives. Believing what others say on forums/boards will leave you with a less than desirable product most of the time.
 
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