What rifles lie between a Rem 700 5R and a GAP Crusader?

[Nomad0001]

Have the 5R. Shoots great for the money at $1K.

Salivating about the GAP, but $4K is a bit steep for me.

Worthy contenders in between these two?

Thanks!

 

[Captain Kirk]

Worthy contenders in between these two?

Not in my opinion. Most full blown custom rifles will have a price tag very close to what the GAP demands. You may find companies that will do a custom a little cheaper, but you gotta pay to play. Your not just paying for a name when you purchase a GAP, they are works of art that shoot as good as they are put together.

Kirk Roberts

 

[Lrdchaos]

I would keep a look out for actions, barrels and stock on here. You could build your own if your not in a hurry.

 

[Dirty D]

A Stiller action $950, Timney Trigger $115, Criterion pre fit that you install yourself $300 and a AICS 1.5 $750.

 

[nashlaw]

Tough spot to be in......lol! You have a rifle that will do sub-moa and probably much better. The GAP will do .5-moa, but at the expense of $3000. You have to decide how much that 1/2" is worth to you. When I joined this site and started spending my grocery money on firearms (to be fair, I have always spent lots of money on firearms), I was bug eyed over the GAPs and other highend builds. I still get shivers when I see some of these rifles and now have several myself, albeit mine are on Remington and Winchester actions. You have an excellent rifle. Spend time behind it and when you can't stand it any more, send it to GAP. In the meantime, look around the for sale forums and start picking up a McMillan or Manners stock at a bargain. When start tiring of the HS Precision stock on your rifle, putting it in a new stock might change the whole feel of it.

You have to decide how much that extra .25" of accuracy is worth. I will admit that there is some pride of ownership in a fine custom rifle.

 

[JB02]

Have the 5R. Shoots great for the money at $1K.

Salivating about the GAP, but $4K is a bit steep for me.

Worthy contenders in between these two?

Thanks!

Check out RW Snyder Gunsmithing; he does good work. He has a "base custom rifle" option that is ~ $1600 for a barreled action (w/ trigger) only. Get that and drop it into an XLR element chassis and you have something for a little less than $2.5K.

Don't forget to set aside another $1K for an optic.

 

[Chance]

Look for a local smith who does his work at the house. All you really need to have a rifle that shoots is a quality barrel installed by someone who knows what they're doing. You can use your same stock or upgrade to any of the many chassis on the market today. You may not get the finished product that GA will give you, but if your local guy knows what he's doing, I guarantee that it will shoot just as good.

Go to your local range, try and find local small matches, maybe f class, ask around, and you'll find the local machinist who works on all the local guys stuff. These guys are usually very knowledgable and affordable. They just love to shoot. Good luck.

 

[Smooth_87]

I've got a tikka I've went and added all the goodies to and it's it a fantastic rifle. Sub .5moa

However for the price of a custom check out an AI AT.

My next big rifle purchase will be an AI.

 

[RobertB]

A custom rifle is a rifle that you spec out to be exactly what you want. I have several gaps and they are the guys I go to when I want to start a build (just got one from em again). You also get an accuracy guarantee that you won't get from a factory rifle. Saying that I have a few custom rifles that seem ti be almost as accurate. The things I believe are, usually more speed and less fouling from custom bbl makers, resale value, gap or someone probably has less than 1% of the rifles they make not shooting what they should where remingtin , savage, howa have much higher than that. And custom rigs can be much tougher too. In my mind there are places for both type rifles. Someone starting out I think should start out with something like a Remington 700 sps tac or varmit and add a few things or maybe a savage
If they buy a top tier scope then it can go on the custom.

As far as what lies between, i thjbk you already have it. Maybe another stick or something if that one doest fit the best. Really, I guess a used custom does. Lol. Good luck.

 

[Lrdchaos]

When you say very good, .75 or .5? If it's .7 or less I would get a new stock, whatever brand you like and put a trigger in it and shoot it until the barrel wears out. You could always have it cerakoted to match the stock or just give it a new look. You are paying a lot of money for .2. If you are going to compete that's a different story, but a stock and trigger would give you a good foundation to work from.


Ps- this coming from the guy who has never shot a competition but had 2 custom rifles being built as I type.

 

[strike33]

For Factory Guns.. used or left over AI MKIII, TRG, SIG 3000 (although caliber swaps will be an issue)
There are plenty of fine customs that show up for sale a some decent prices. Especially with so mant great rifles/ optics being released this year.
Is there anything specific that you're looking for..caliber? action? stock availability?

 

[diego-ted]

Look for a local smith who does his work at the house. You may not get the finished product that GA will give you, but if your local guy knows what he's doing, I guarantee that it will shoot just as good.

Mighty big words there! I don't thing GAP would agree! LOL

Diego

 

[ss7]

I would say the TRG would be a worthy candidate to consider between these options.

 

[Sig Marine]

There are certain costs associated with higher end rifles that are common across the board. More specifically; stock, bedding, bottom metal and cerakoting. Differences in actions and their associated enhancements, bolt fluting, tactical knob, side bolt release, also increase their price along with the fact that they are built TRUE.
So, how do you get a quality rifle for less? You have to do away with some of the luxury items and eliminate "smithing" costs as best you can. Getting a Stiller action and setting it up with a barrel nut system will allow you to get barrels and install them yourself with just a barrel vise, barrel nut wrench and head space gauges. Benchmark and Criterion make very good barrels for this application. Get a Timney trigger and a chassis (like the XLR, McCree or AICS) and you'll have a very decent shooting rifle for less money than a totally custom build with the capabilities to change barrels/calibers yourself in the future. If the AR type chassis aren't for you, a Manners T4 or T2 with a mini-chassis are very good stocks.

Stiller w/ 20MOA rail - $975
Timney 510U - $125
Barrel - $375 - $500
XLR, McCree, AICS or Manners mini-chassis - $1000 or less

This type of build would run you about $2600 on the high end but leaves you with a raw metal finish on the barreled action so...throw in the cost of a couple cans of Krylon to make it look pretty.

 

[Bradu]

Check out RW Snyder Gunsmithing; he does good work. He has a "base custom rifle" option that is ~ $1600 for a barreled action (w/ trigger) only. Get that and drop it into an XLR element chassis and you have something for a little less than $2.5K.

Don't forget to set aside another $1K for an optic.

Couldn't be happier with my base custom rifle from Robert, I'm saving up to buy another in .223 for a cheap plinker.

 

[skeetlee]

GAP sets the standard around here for sure, but they aren't doing anything any other competent smith cant or wont do. There is only so much you can do. A good chamber job is a good chamber job no matter who cuts it. A good stock bedding job, is a good bedding job no matter who beds it. I will say the process long rifles uses with there computer controlled mill, would be my first choice. Im not sure if GAP does that or not??
As far as barrels, we are at the mercy of the barrel maker there. Completely out of our control. However a good smith will slug a barrel before chambering it. I wonder if GAP slugs there barrels? I bet they do. Lets see what else is there. The action, trued rem or custom, I vote custom, but that doesn't mean it will be straight and true. I know of a few that are not. They shoot well though! makes a guy wonder how important that really is?? Trigger work, I polish all my own triggers, so I wouldn't need anyone doing that for me. Then there is cerakote, lots of guys doing quality cerakote work out there. I guess my point is, there are lots of good rifle builders out there who care about their work, and I will guarantee there rifles will shoot just as well as a GAP rifle. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own a GAP rifle. Once I got tired of shooting it, I would get all my money back out of it. That would be one reason for sure to have GAP build you one. Not to sure any other builder has that going on for themselves?? My first choice in a tactical build would be a Jon Beanland built rifle. Jon cares about his work and his customers. thats were the rubber meets the road in my opinion. before I did all my own work, I had Jon do everything for me. He would call me up out of the blue just to check in on me and see how his work was performing. Does GAP do that? I bet they do. GAP also gives back a lot to the shooting community, so that in itself might be another reason to go with a GAP built rifle. Lots of choices, and lots of quality smiths out there. I hate to see that small shop guy not getting the credit they deserve sometimes, simply because there rifles will and can shoot with the big boys, ill guarantee it!! Lee

 

[RobertB]

Mighty big words there! I don't thing GAP would agree! LOL

Diego

That's BS, He said " if he knows what hes doing", I mostly use GAP but have a 2 rifles built from my local smith that are absolute hammers. I have won some BR matches with them so........

 

[Bradu]

GAP sets the standard around here for sure, but they aren't doing anything any other competent smith cant or wont do. There is only so much you can do. A good chamber job is a good chamber job no matter who cuts it. A good stock bedding job, is a good bedding job no matter who beds it. I will say the process long rifles uses with there computer controlled mill, would be my first choice. Im not sure if GAP does that or not??
As far as barrels, we are at the mercy of the barrel maker there. Completely out of our control. However a good smith will slug a barrel before chambering it. I wonder if GAP slugs there barrels? I bet they do. Lets see what else is there. The action, trued rem or custom, I vote custom, but that doesn't mean it will be straight and true. I know of a few that are not. They shoot well though! makes a guy wonder how important that really is?? Trigger work, I polish all my own triggers, so I wouldn't need anyone doing that for me. Then there is cerakote, lots of guys doing quality cerakote work out there. I guess my point is, there are lots of good rifle builders out there who care about their work, and I will guarantee there rifles will shoot just as well as a GAP rifle. Don't get me wrong, I would love to own a GAP rifle. Once I got tired of shooting it, I would get all my money back out of it. That would be one reason for sure to have GAP build you one. Not to sure any other builder has that going on for themselves?? My first choice in a tactical build would be a Jon Beanland built rifle. Jon cares about his work and his customers. thats were the rubber meets the road in my opinion. before I did all my own work, I had Jon do everything for me. He would call me up out of the blue just to check in on me and see how his work was performing. Does GAP do that? I bet they do. GAP also gives back a lot to the shooting community, so that in itself might be another reason to go with a GAP built rifle. Lots of choices, and lots of quality smiths out there. I hate to see that small shop guy not getting the credit they deserve sometimes, simply because there rifles will and can shoot with the big boys, ill guarantee it!! Lee

Well said! There are plenty of gunsmiths that do great work and not as expensive as GAP.

 

[Chance]

GAP is a great company ran by a man who loves shooting and gives back to this community. GA offers a finished product that not only looks good, but performs good. Those are facts.

The question was, what rifles lye in between? I've shot many Remington 700's with AICS stocks, fitted custom barrels, mainly Hart, and some Kreigers, by one of the best local gunsmiths around. He did the truing of the action, the barrel threading and fitting. I would place a jewel trigger in and throw a little dura coat and BAM! You've got yourself a in between rifle that will perform. With these rifles, I've shot against a many of GAP, Terry Cross, AI, patriot arms, etc... Rifles and have bested all on a given day. I'm not saying my locally built rifles are finer and more accurate than the likes of a GA, but I definately don't feel outgunned.

 

[battlestick]

I went the "in-between" route. One option not mentioned is that the roll your own allows you to do it as you get funding. If you can budget the 5K in 5 or 6 months, then full blown custom is a reality. If you can only budget the 5K over as many years, then piecing it together is probably most feasible.

I had a rem 700 30-06. Started reloading for it to pull out accuracy. The next year I put it in a Bell & Carlson stock. The year after, had a Bartlein chambered in 6.5x55 installed. It is MOA, and better than that most times. Is it a sub half gun? Rarely. Am I consistently a sub half shooter, hell no. I am hopeful this will improve when I upgrade my glass next year. (Glass was this year, but I went back to college and used the fund.) After that, it will be appearance. When the barrel needs to be set back, Cerakote and maybe flute the barrel should round it out. If I upgrade my stock again, it will likely be the last thing. She is all kinds of ugly now, but it shoots better than I do, and I love it.

Once my glass and cerakote are done, I don't know what I will have in it, but it will be much less than a full custom rifle. Even if at it's best it will only do .8, I still will not be able to justify the money for a full blown custom.

I am early 40's and finishing college myself, my last 4 kids will go through college in the next 8 years. Maybe a GAP, or whatever is around when I get of age, will be fitting for retirement.

 

[jonthomps]

A Steyr SSG 3000. Excellent .5 moa rifle for the money.

 

[Nomad0001]

Thank you for the responses so far.

A lot of good advice to think about!

 

[Lowlight]

George Gardner of GAP when no one is looking @ the Mercy of his Barrel Supplier

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[mrbig]

the TRG 22 is a shooter that would come in between those in price,,the TRG 42 is an awesome rifle also but not sure how much difference in cost would be,,

 

[malsa82]

Tikka T3 or Sako TRG for a factory rifle. Otherwise, just rebarrel and true your 700 and put it into a decent chassis/stock.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Either another custom with less options or FN SPR.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I would like to suggest the LRI group buy option, can get a good shooter for 1500 or so.

 

[swampbuck]

I agree that the FN SPR series is a great in between.

 

[STLSteve86]

Gap all the way!!!!!

 

[WVshooter]

Have the 5R. Shoots great for the money at $1K.

Salivating about the GAP, but $4K is a bit steep for me.

Worthy contenders in between these two?

Thanks!

What are you looking for that the 5R isn't giving you?

I ask because I have a 5R and have invested some extra money in some minor gun smithing and a new stock. This gun has been a fantastic shooter for me but I too dream of a GAP or SAC some day. Mine will consistently shoot .5" or better with FGMM 175 if I do my part.

I always wonder what other people are getting out of theirs since Remington quality control can be hit or miss.

I have a friend with a crusader and it is certainly a fine weapon but there is a significant cost difference. I have yet to shoot them side by side and see how the accuracy compares. For what I do now the 5R is a perfectly adequate rifle.
A manners stock with DBM and a bolt handle make a big difference.

 

[Jethro3898]

How about a nice used AI AE? I've seen some awesome mkiii and mkii deals in the for sale forum over the last few months. Unless you are just a stickler for traditional stocks, I'm sure you would be pleased with a used AE.

 

[HOGTOOTH5R]

For Quality and Accuracy without the custom Waite time. Look in AI/SAKO TRG/FN SPR. All well do you Just Fine!

 

[-Nick-]

Look for a local smith who does his work at the house. All you really need to have a rifle that shoots is a quality barrel installed by someone who knows what they're doing. You can use your same stock or upgrade to any of the many chassis on the market today. You may not get the finished product that GA will give you, but if your local guy knows what he's doing, I guarantee that it will shoot just as good.

Go to your local range, try and find local small matches, maybe f class, ask around, and you'll find the local machinist who works on all the local guys stuff. These guys are usually very knowledgable and affordable. They just love to shoot. Good luck.

After all the jacked up rifles I've seen from "local garage gunsmiths" who have been in the business for awhile and are allegedly competent I'll politely disagree. Being a machinist doesn't mean they have the first clue either about gunsmithing although they all like to believe they do. And when they screw up they never seem to want to make it right or replace the damage they've done. I live in an area where one of the best 1911 smiths in the US recently retired, and he worked out of his garage, but he had a waiting list longer than GAP and it was for a reason.

OP... You're paying for craftsmanship, customer service, and guarantee's when you use someone like GAP, SAC, etc. and maybe it's just me but if you're serious about long range shooting and performance there is a noticeable difference between a .5-.7 and .25-.5 MOA especially at distance. There are very few off the shelf rifles also that have high quality barrels and triggers and don't cost at least $3K+ which if I'm going to spend that kind of money why would I not want something built to my personal specs....

 

[diego-ted]

You get what you pay for, GAPs prices are inline with anyother "Quality builder" Can you get it done cheaper? Sure, will it be a hummer, maybe, maybe not. Buy once cry once! You can get good deals in the for sale section every now and then! I have Savages, Tikkas and shot boatloads of Remintons, but except for the Sako the others were not close to a GAP, even the Sako had short comings so for the extra grand You get from GAP what you want!



Diego

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Buy a spare action or a base-model custom action and get GAP to put in a new barrel and tune everything up. You can come out MUCH cheaper than a full GAP custom, but you get all the critical parts tuned up by GAP.

 

[Night Eagle]

i had a 5r for a couple of years and really learned to shoot on it...that thing would shoot about 3/4 - 1 moa on average. i ended up changing the stock, trigger and the bolt knob after awhile...thing is, when you can out shoot that rifle, its time to get another rifle. so i went with a gap and am so glad i did. now i can average about .25-.5 moa...usually my rounds touch each other. and out to 1k yrds it really made the difference for positional shooting. for me it was worth the transition. i sold the 5R parts to help fund that gap and it was totally worth it for me...thing is, is that extra .5moa worth the extra 2-3k you will have to spend? only you can decide.

 

[fdkay]

The 5R is a very good factory rifle that comes in a good stock.
You can order a quality barrel for it, have the action trued and the barrel installed. The smith can relieve the stock for the slightly fatter barrel if you go with a larger contour (I like the SR60 contour).
Total cost, between 700-750 dollars.
You can upgrade the trigger for 135 bucks yourself.

 

[onethousandmeters]

Glad someone mentioned the FN SPR series rifles. The ones I've owned have all been solid performers, and dollar-for-dollar, I feel they are a great value. In addition, they are usually found for much less than a TRG-22, AI, etc... Just my $0.02.