Running a Leica PRS and Leupold Mark 5 5-25. Prior to that Mk 4. My biggest complaint is the limited elevation of the Leupold due to the revolution counting caps. If only Leupold would make caps without the cam track that limits elevation range. Shooting targets out to a mile so far with a 260 rem.
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What scope is everyone running for elr
- Thread starter Schw15
- Start date
I haven't looked thru or shot with my Razor much past about 1500 yds. But it's really good at that range. I think the further out you go, the optical quality requirements get much more demanding. I have no experience with the newer scopes that are all the rage now like Khales, ZCo and such. But the S&Bs I have would get out there no problem. I'm betting the 4.5-27 razor would not be a slouch at that range either, but might fall a bit behind the big names. I'm super happy with it for what I do (out to a mile), but I'm not shooting any calibers that would do well much beyond that, so the need for those high $$ scopes is not as critical. I'm tempted to sell one of my S&B PMIIs as I just don't need it and I like the Razor's EBR-7C reticle better than the P4F. But it's amazing glass, so it would be hard to part with it.
Great write up. Excellent info here!I have a PST (not used any more) and a Razor (not used for ELR).
I stopped using my PST because at anything past roughly 1k, I started getting eye strain. Since I want to be able to shoot past 1k with everything I've got, the scope now is sitting atop a friend's hunting rifle.
The Razor is a marked improvement over the PST. You will immediately notice the difference. However...
- It still is below other scopes that are maybe 1/2 a price class above it in terms of optical quality. If you can spend up here, spend up.
- While I love the EBR reticles on the Vortex scopes for closer-in work, I do not like a xmas tree reticle for mile+ stuff as the lines can partially obscure splash on low misses, making it harder to self-spot for correction.
- Internal elevation max = 28.5 mil
So... let's talk all things in:
- If you're talking about really stretching things, you want to have as much internal travel on the scope as possible - definitely north of 30 mil. That rules out things like the Razor (and my much beloved Steiner) without having to get some form of external adjustment.
- If you get something like a 300 PRC, you'd need somewhere in the neighborhood of 34+ mils at 2400 yards, and while someone with a 338 LM can give you specifics, you're not too far below that - this is why I shake my head somewhat at people who want to get a 338 LM for ELR. The slower muzzle velocity means it slightly underperforms against big 300s at medium ranges, and performs only marginally better farther out - and it's much more expensive to load/shoot. And I don't get too many ugly looks when I take my 300 to a local range for zeroing, trigger work, etc. but my friend sure does with his 338. You pick up some ability to spot splash, and some wind benefits, but I don't consider those worth the negatives. This is why 338 has never been a consideration for me - go one of the magnum .30 cals, or go bigger - 338 AI (at the minimum), 33XC, any number of 375s - talk about expense! Now I'll duck out of the way as all the 338 LM owners come to their caliber's defense
- At 34ish mils, even the higher end scopes with more travel (Atacr, ZCO), you're right on the edge without having to hold over, which means you're looking well off center of the glass. This impacts clarity. AND you need to match rail/mount elevation to get the max. A 20 moa rail is roughly 6 mil. If you pair it with a 9 mil Spuhr, you're still only at 15 mil total, so you're leaving 2.5 mils on the table. With a 13 mil Spuhr, you'd be unable to zero at 100 (barely).
- This is why people get adjustable mounts (like the Eratac or Ivey) or an optical adjuster like a Charlie Tarac (there's that expense thing again).
So, what scope:
If I had to pick one scope for my 300, it would the NF Atacr 5-25 with the Mil C reticle. 35 mils internal elevation, 5-25 is perfect for a 30 (and more), clean, floating dot reticle, good hold over, very good optical quality, expensive, but it won't break the bank. Note that the 7-35 Atacr has only 29 mils. No need pair it with an Ivey or Eratac adjustable mount if I wanted to go past ~2200 yards because it's a good hold over reticle - easy choice.
For my new 37XC build, I decided on a March Genesis. I haven't mounted it yet, though tempted to put it on my 300 as I wait for all my 37XC parts. We'll see how that plays out.
Next time I'm at the range (maybe tomorrow), I'll put my S&B 5-25 PMII side by side against my Vortex 4.5-27 at something distinct about 2000 yds away. At our LR steel range at my club - there is a rocky ridgeline the steel targets are mounted on that goes at least 2500 yds out. The steel itself only goes to 1350, but the slope goes well beyond. So I'll try to get some objective comparisons on detail if I can at various ranges.
I wish there were more SFP scopes in the ELR market space. We don't need to dial up and down for multiple targets and ranging via the reticle - we just want to shoot 1000 or 1760 yards and beyond without much time pressure. And we don't want a c$^%- hair width reticle when we dial down to find the target. The market will catch up, but it may be a while - since all the forums have effectively convinced folks that FFP is the way to go. So, long live the SFP ATACR.
In ELR competition.... FFP is the way to go...also my version of ELR starts at 1 mile. You need an accurate grid reticle that you can trust to dial your course adjustments to when you are more than a mil off.....you need an accurate reticle to make the wind holds your spotter just gave you. 0.2 up - 0.4 right......send it.....how do you even know what that is on a SFP scoped dialed to something that isn't calibrated to the reticle?
I have to say that I love looking through SFP scopes. The reticle is always perfect and clean. I don't like shooting them, especially at distance.
I like to dial elevation and hold wind (to a point). With SFP, while you can adjust based on target width (sort of), it's not all that effective, especially if you're shooting at different sized targets.
I have a Cronus Gen 2, a sightron SV, Bushnell LRTSi 4.5-18, XTR II 4-20 along with some lower end stuff.
My favorite, by far, is the Sightron, followed by the Bushnell.
I would not buy the Cronus again. The glass is quite good, the reticle is good, the adjustments are very firm and tactile.
It is the eyebox at higher mags that I can not stand. It is VERY difficult to get behind at high mag, whereas the Sightron is very forgiving. Sadly, they no longer make the 4.5-24.
I also have used a Sightmark Pinnacle 5-30, way more forgiving at high mag than the Cronus, sadly, they quit importing that one as well.
I am not bashing Athlon, it is a well made scope, but I can't get past the eyebox.
And that's why "how's the glass" questions are almost meaningless.
I spent, for me, a good chunk of money on the scope. I wish I liked it better.
We do a full resolution test on all of our optics and any scope we can lay our hands on- new, old and really old. The test is set at 50yds in order to allow many scopes to arrive within the "center" of the scale presented by the resolution target. It is also in a shaded area, with a "bright" zone in front of it in order to look at "glare". The resolution target is standard Air Force with one major twist- our bars, which are at specified widths, have three color bars within each individual bar. In other words each bar is subdivided into Red, Blue, and Green. Blue and Green are adjacent to each other as they quickly become "brown" as the scope looses color resolution. We track the last target set in which separation of each line can be detected in both vertical and horizontal planes. We find that their is often a slight discrepancy. We then repeat the test for the color separation both horizontally and vertically. I promise you the 4 tests don't all line up. One of the scopes noted as a "top" unit is our standard "go to" when testing auxiliary optics. We can test in real conditions to 5miles (at assembly), but the subjectivity, atmosphere and light conditions are just not reliable. Looking at small lines at a known distance with specific color content lines things up pretty quick.
At a resolution level... yes. Upper middle of the pack. Dollar for dollar ... very good. Optics start to become insanely expensive as you start trying to pull out the last few 1/10's of a percent.
That's very interesting, thank you for that. Takes all (or most) of the user subjectivity out of the equation. As it should.
I’ve got
S@b pmii
Zco
Steiner m7xi
Atacr
Mark 5
Ziess lrp
All of them are more capable than I am
Would rate
Zco-1
S@b-2
Atacr-3
But actually all really close in quality
S@b pmii
Zco
Steiner m7xi
Atacr
Mark 5
Ziess lrp
All of them are more capable than I am
Would rate
Zco-1
S@b-2
Atacr-3
But actually all really close in quality
I am currently running the maven sr4 I am extremely pleased with it. I purchased the new Zeiss. But chose to maven over the Zeiss
I am using a Zcomp 5x27 on my 375ct and a S&B 3x27 on the 338lm. I like both scopes and I am able to zero at 100 yards with both scopes even with a total of 60 MOA in the rail and scope mounts. So I have over 31 mils of travel left in both scopes.
To my eyes it was as good or better than the higher end night Force. Maven is 100% Japanese made scope. Don't get me wrong I do like the Zeiss however the maven was a better fit for my build. I still have the Zeiss it will use it on another build Zeiss has a little more Moa travel with the maven still has 120 from top to bottom. First focal plane zero stop Etc. All the bells and whistles. I chose the maven because I like the radical design and the length and weight. The tall Target test on the maven was flawless
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I own a March scope but I can tell you this much. It's not worth the difference in price. Yes it's good but not double the price good the Scopes I use for ELR must be first focal plane and a 4 to 42 power is worthless on first focal plane . I never use anything below 15 power or anything above 24 power
