What Short Action Elk Caliber for Youth Rifle

[HogsLife]

Alright fellas, figure this “what caliber” thing has been covered a bunch but this situation is a little different.

Built my 12 y/o Daughter a rifle a couple years ago with the idea that being she’s a lefty, I didn’t wanna have to build her multiple rifles depending on what she was doing. So I built her a rifle that she could do it all with, with nothing more than a Bolt Head and barrel swap, and a stock she wouldnt grow out of. Build specs below.

-LH SA Bighorn Origin w/ all the bolt heads from 223 to Mag.
-Manner MCS-CS
-16.5” 6.5CM Proof Sendero
-Trigger Tech Special
-Area 419 Hellfire
-NF NXS F1 3.5-15x50

Well, that was a couple years ago and now she’s ready to do some elk hunting and is in need of something with some more ass behind it. I was originally thinking a 22” 6.5PRC but it’s still on the light end for elk. Kicking around either a 7WSM or a 300WSM. Want to make sure factory ammo is available and it doesn’t hit her so hard she develops a flinch she can’t shake. She’s about 105lbs. I know a 6.5PRC will drag and elk DRT with good sh
Placement but none the less, 140gn bullet is on the light end and elk are tough animals. I’m running a 7mag and my dads running the good ol 300wm.

curious your thoughts

Thanks guys .

 

[Matt_3479]

My thoughts are primarily this. Don’t get her a rifle she’s afraid of. 300 wsm has some serious recoil. Too much recoil and if she gains a flinch, doesn’t matter how big the bullet is, it can’t kill an elks if she misses or puts a terrible shot on it. I’d opt more for the 6.5 prc, 6.5 creed, 6.5 saum, 6.8 western (main choice due to factory ammo, short action and much lower recoil). I am also a firm believer of the 30 cal on big game, but a .277 has always worked wonders on moose for my dad I’d have 0 issues with it.

Reduce caliber, reduce recoil, reduce range. Start getting her to shoot larger guns, step her up, see where she’s comfortable and go based on that!! Then make sure you post pics when she bags her first elk!!!

 

[HogsLife]

My thoughts are primarily this. Don’t get her a rifle she’s afraid of. 300 wsm has some serious recoil. Too much recoil and if she gains a flinch, doesn’t matter how big the bullet is, it can’t kill an elks if she misses or puts a terrible shot on it. I’d opt more for the 6.5 prc, 6.5 creed, 6.5 saum, 6.8 western (main choice due to factory ammo, short action and much lower recoil). I am also a firm believer of the 30 cal on big game, but a .277 has always worked wonders on moose for my dad I’d have 0 issues with it.

Reduce caliber, reduce recoil, reduce range. Start getting her to shoot larger guns, step her up, see where she’s comfortable and go based on that!! Then make sure you post pics when she bags her first elk!!!

I agree with that 100%. Which is why I put a call in for a 22” 6.5PRC barrel for her, but you know how it goes. Start 2nd guessing if that enough bullet for elk. Nothing worse than hitting an animal just to have him run off and die somewhere you can’t get to him.

You have any thoughts on the 7wsm? More recoil than that 6.5PRC but quite a bit less than the 300wsm. I don’t have any experience with the Short Mags apart from the 6.5.

 

[Dm6]

I would personally do a 300 wsm if factory ammo is a must. Most of it is loaded with a 170-190 grain bullet which would fit in the sa magazine better than a similar weight bullet out of a 7wsm. I find that with the short mags the recoil is very mild. This is especially true when a good break is fitted. My personal favorite is the muscle break by piercision rifles. I have one on my 300 Norma improved and would not hesitate to let a clild shoot it even though it only weighs 10lbs

 

[tbeckstrand]

I’d be tempted to build her a 6.8 Western. I had great luck with the 165 accubond on elk and so did everyone using it in camp.

 

[HogsLife]

I’d be tempted to build her a 6.8 Western. I had great luck with the 165 accubond on elk and so did everyone using it in camp.

That 6.8 Western is pretty impressive. I’ve never looked into it, but after reading up on it a litte, that looks like it’s the perfect round for the job.

 

[Schw15]

Growing up i shot a 6.5-06 ackley improve 140 sst. I killed deer and elk with that rifle from 100 yards to over 500 yards. Now i have changed my thoughts for elk bigger is better but elk are not un-killable like some say. Recoil is everything in this situation so 6.5 prc 270 wsm but can always throw a brake on. Get a radial brake there not as bad

 

[Slides]

If you run an aggressive brake like the existing one on the 223 I'd say 300wsm for both knock down/wound cavity and factory ammunition availability. I have been shooting my 6.5cm unbraked as I have been shooting with F class guys, I shot a lighter Bargara owned by a mate with a decent brake, 147gr hand loads, it felt like shooting 22LR, Likewise even with the basic factory brake my BA110 338lm came with felt recoil isn't any more than an unbraked 308, just a lot more muzzle blast.

 

[4thandbleek]

A 7mm-08!
mild recoil that still delivers a nice punch. IMO its exactly what you need.

 

[WeiserBucks]

7-08. No way I'd give a 100 lb youngster a magnum.

 

[Franko]

Is she capable of shooting 500+ yards? If she isn't I'd go with a 7mm-08 or 308 as they will get the job done without the added recoil of a magnum. If she needs to shoot further I'd use the 300WSM and just load it down if you need to.

 

[Smokin7s]

7-08. No way I'd give a 100 lb youngster a magnum.

Took me a long time to recover from my long action enthusiast grandpas flinch he gifted me I agree don’t reinvent the wheel 7-08

 

[WeiserBucks]

If she needs to shoot further I'd use the 300WSM and just load it down if you need to.

Load it down to what? A 308? Just start with the right tool for the job.

 

[BurnOut]

A 7mm-08!
mild recoil that still delivers a nice punch. IMO its exactly what you need.

^^This^^

 

[3rdfocal]

7-08 and 308 are good options but I'm not sure the terminal gain over your 6.5 will be that significant with the 7-08. 7-08 typically runs lighter bullets- 140's 162 maybe. The 308 with a 180 class bullet is probably a good choice. I ran a 20" 308 with a 180 berger elite at about 2550fps and it was fantastic, I wouldnt have hesitated to shoot an elk at 7-800 yards. Check the combo out with a ballistics calc.

7wsm is out unless you already have a stockpile of brass. 7saum would be the ticket if you go magnum. I have a saum, carbon barrel and stock, about 11lbs ready to hunt. Recoil isn't bad considering the rounds capability but I can't imagine a 105lb 12yr old doing very well behind it.

7 saum with some heavier barrel + light bullet + tuned down load combination might be your best bet. That gives you something that's hopefully manageable now but that she can grow into and maximize the cartridge later. If it's too much now I'd just run the 6.5 you have until she's ready for the saum.

 

[2c1fr]

I say stick with the 6.5 prc it’ll get the job done!

 

[Wyfox]

The 6.5 PRC would be perfect.
My daughter shot a nice bull at age 12 with her 6.5cm, at 250yds the bullet went through both front shoulders and dumped him.
I've witnessed no less than a dozen elk taken with a 6.5 creed(mostly young kids), and probably 1/2 dozen with the 6.5 PRC/Saum. It works if that's what you have, put the bullet where it's supposed to go.

 

[Matt_3479]

I agree with that 100%. Which is why I put a call in for a 22” 6.5PRC barrel for her, but you know how it goes. Start 2nd guessing if that enough bullet for elk. Nothing worse than hitting an animal just to have him run off and die somewhere you can’t get to him.

You have any thoughts on the 7wsm? More recoil than that 6.5PRC but quite a bit less than the 300wsm. I don’t have any experience with the Short Mags apart from the 6.5.

Something about the short mags but tbere recoil is harsh. Fast and snappy. I owned a 300 wsm for years and loved it. It was in a light weight browning a-bolt, and boy did it boot!! I sold it to my brother to build my first custom, and he developed a flinch from it. It took quite a bit of practice and different calibers before he grew out of it. I like recoil, not something I want all the time but it does give me that sense of awesomeness too lol. I’ve shot the 270 wsm, 7 wsm and 300 wsm and found them all to be snappier then there counterpartner (300 win mag, 7mm mag, 270 rem which isn’t fair as the 270 rem is smaller).

I honestly think the 6.8 western might just be the ticket for newer shooters. 270 wsm isn’t horrible but the 6.8 western has better factory options making it a better option. I haven’t shot one yet, but my buddy has and he said it was surprisingly mild and recoiled very similar to his prc which he doesn’t like the prc recoil. Not that it’s a lot or bothersome but I think the way his rifle is built it recoils funny and makes for very difficult follow ups.

 

[Hawk in WY]

7-08 would be a good choice as would the .308. The 7-08 catches the .308 in terms of energy on target beyond where she probably should be shooting not because of marksmanship skills but bullet performance.

This discussion is not complete without consideration of terminal performance.

I recommend pick the bullet first and then pick the caliber.

My recommendation is to start with the Barnes LRX series of bullets in 6.5, 270, 7 mm, and .308, then spend some time comparing bullet velocity with various cartridges and bullet expansion minimum velocity at the maximum distance she is likely to shoot and your answer will appear.

The answers to your question is very different inside 100 yards versus beyond 600.

Elk are not bullet proof but can absorb a lot of energy and not fall over even with good shot placement. My son is moving up from .308 to 300 WM. He has killed trophy bull elk every year for five years with the .308 but appreciates what more energy can do. Our ranch in Idaho makes this possible. We are truly blessed.

Families hunting together make families stronger and our nation stronger. Well done. If you are looking for a place to hunt, send me a pm.

 

[Skg_Mre_Lght]

My wife stacked elk like cord wood for years with a 243 until I got her a 308. Shot placement is key. I have witnessed many elk run for miles after a bad hit from magnum cartridges because the people using them were scared to death of their rifles.

My two sons have killed several elk with their rifles chambered in 260 and 7-08. The worse thing you can do is let them develop a flinch because they "need" a magnum for an elk.

 

[waspocrew]

Honestly, I feel the PRC is totally fine. We've killed a handful of elk with it and it's hasn't been an issue.

 

[GONE BAD]

I gave my grandson a 260 lite weight hunter when he was 12. At 13 he killed a 5x7 bull at 400 yards. One shot! 140 vldh.
Now at 16 he won't hunt with anything else.
6.5's kill stuff just fine.

A flinch will set a young person back for a long, long time

 

[Hawk in WY]

My wife stacked elk like cord wood for years with a 243 until I got her a 308. Shot placement is key. I have witnessed many elk run for miles after a bad hit from magnum cartridges because the people using them were scared to death of their rifles.

My two sons have killed several elk with their rifles chambered in 260 and 7-08. The worse thing you can do is let them develop a flinch because they "need" a magnum for an elk.

This is correct in many respects, but I have one thought. A .243 will kill elk, but all elk are not equal. A Rocky Mountain elk and a Thule elk are not the same challenge. What does the job on a 200 pound calf may not be up to the job on an 850 pound bull. An elk at 100 yards is not the same as the same elk at 600 yards.

I am reminded the world record polar bear at one time was killed by an Eskimo woman using a .22. Six shots behind the ear. Will a .22 kill a very large polar bear? Obviously. Is it the right tool for the purpose? Not really.

Use the biggest gun you shoot accurately is closer to the truth.

 

[Skg_Mre_Lght]

This is correct in many respects, but I have one thought. A .243 will kill elk, but all elk are not equal. A Rocky Mountain elk and a Thule elk are not the same challenge. What does the job on a 200 pound calf may not be up to the job on an 850 pound bull. An elk at 100 yards is not the same as the same elk at 600 yards.

I am reminded the world record polar bear at one time was killed by an Eskimo woman using a .22. Six shots behind the ear. Will a .22 kill a very large polar bear? Obviously. Is it the right tool for the purpose? Not really.

Use the biggest gun you shoot accurately is closer to the truth.

I live in Wyoming also, and understand the minute differences in the elk subspecies.

People take elk every year with Bows, so I find the caliber discussion for elk kind of funny. Know your gun and it's limitations, practice, and use a good bullet. Any short action in 24 caliber or bigger, with a good bullet, is much deadlier than any bow that take thousands of elk a year.

I have a sfae full of magnum hunting rifles, and they have their place, but realistically they only extend your effective range over conventional cartridges.

 

[Schw15]

I think the main issues with calibers with elk is when long range shooting is involved 500 plus. I feel better with a bigger 7 or 30 cal at longer ranges. But under that any cal will work fine shot placement is key and then bullet.

 

[FCS]

127 LRX
130 Swift Scirocco
Either from a 6.5 Creed will do just fine on elk.
Need more velocity, step up to a 6.5 PRC or SAUM

How long of a shot are you expecting?

Knowing your DOPE, ability to put bullet where it needs to go is going to be more helpful in long run than extra fps and recoil.

 

[skl1]

7-08 or .308. I'd cheat to .308. With the muzzle brake and the weight of that rifle, recoil won't be too bad. But I wouldn't do the .300 WSM. 6.5 CM will likely be fine, though I might want more diameter and bullet weight on an elk at over 300 yards.

 

[HogsLife]

127 LRX
130 Swift Scirocco
Either from a 6.5 Creed will do just fine on elk.
Need more velocity, step up to a 6.5 PRC or SAUM

How long of a shot are you expecting?

Knowing your DOPE, ability to put bullet where it needs to go is going to be more helpful in long run than extra fps and recoil.

10-4. As far as range I think 500’and in is a good baseline. Locally here in North Idaho, 500 and in would be average I would say.
By the looks of all the recommendations it sounds like I was on the right track with a the 6.5 PRC route. Should do her just fine .

 

[FCS]

I've had several customers take elk with 6.5 Creed and 140 VLD.
Hunting has the thinner jacket, target still fragments plenty quick.
136 / 139 Scenar has dropped plenty of game also.

Finding bullets might be the hard part unless you already have an assortment of different 6.5mm bullets on hand.

 

[fdkay]

What's wrong with the 6.5?
Before my Dad passed, he had the opportunity to go on a couple of elk hunts with my brother.
He used a 6.5x55.
Shot placement trumps horsepower.
He killed an elk on each trip.
Folks have taken elk with the 6.8 spc and the .243.
Elk don't wear body armor.
A 6.5 loaded with the 140 GMX will penetrate deep and kill the fuck out of shit.
A 7-08 loaded with the 162 eld x over a max charge of 65 staball will net you about 2800 fps.

 

[XLR308]

I've had several customers take elk with 6.5 Creed and 140 VLD.
Hunting has the thinner jacket, target still fragments plenty quick.
136 / 139 Scenar has dropped plenty of game also.

Finding bullets might be the hard part unless you already have an assortment of different 6.5mm bullets on hand.

Agreed, most of the deer and hogs i killed as a kid was with a 6.5x55 SM and it only took me half a lifetime to make my way back around and build a 6.5CM.
Wish i wasnt so hard headed somtimes but lessons are hard won i guess.
I think the 6.5CM is plenty of caliber for Elk but i have a T3 lite in 270win running 150 Partitions and 150 ABLR if i need it.

 

[davsco]

hellfire brake really KILLS any recoil from my tikka t3x in 300 wsm, amazing. of course, must wear earpro, which i do.

a while before this i had a tikka t3 in 300win, no brake, and it kicked like a friggin mule, absolutely painful.

 

[HogsLife]

a while before this i had a tikka t3 in 300win, no brake, and it kicked like a friggin mule, absolutely painful.

Lol no joke. Hellfire is named appropriately. She a loud bitch. Especially out of they 16” 6.5CM.

 

[6mmRemM600]

I'm in the 7mm-08 club with a ~22 in. barrel. Plenty of bullet (enough for a moose, maybe even a bison), flat shooting, manageable recoil, adequate range. Won't burn out a barrel in 1500 rounds like 6.5 CM. One buddy's daughter kills elk with her 7-08 which he says is a "great caliber". He's still shooting a 300 Win Mag, go figure.

My Great Uncle and my Dad were both 270 Win guys. Most kills were around 70 yards, a few closer in, a few further out. My Buddy switched to 308 Win after using a '06 for many years. First year with the new rifle he took an elk at 70 yards, one shot through the neck.

They will all kill an elk. Shot placement counts! Choose one that she will be comfortable with and shoots well.

 

[acudaowner]

was going to say 6.5 creedmoor or 6.5 saum saum for the extra punch both are timid to fire for a kids please send back pics of hunt if you all can ..

 

[Ankeny]

I have killed six elk with my 7mm-08 during the late cow/calf season. I have used 120 TTSX and 140 Accubond bullets.

 

[nexusfire]

Tres Oh Eight and keep it under 500 yards. I am a fan of 30 cal bullets on larger game.

 

[swampbuck]

I agree with 7mm-08 but if you don't think it is enough of a jump up then 308. If you aren't anticipating long shots then 338 federal my be just the ticket. Great to 250 yds or so which is well above where most Elk are shot.

 

[archangel485]

Looks like she already has a rifle to me. 6.5cm will do it, just keep the range reasonable. IMO she'll be super confident with it since she's been shooting it for 2 years. But if you are super worried about the energy the PRC will certainly give a little more.

 

[HogsLife]

I’m having a LA 7mm Sherman Max built for my Elk rifle and after reading about the 7 Sherman Short, I’m curious as to how she’d handle a braked 7 Sherman Short Mag loaded with 150 class bullets.

 

[LR1845]

@HogsLife i am not a hunter but i can tell you this about the sherman short tactical in both 6mm and 6.5mm because ive been playing with both.

with RL26 in the 6SST i ran 109 hybrids up to 3485FPS with ZERO pressure and recoil was VERY mild but again not being a hunter this was a heavy 28" barrel in an MDT chassis with a insite arms 4 port brake which does not reduce recoil quite as well as the 419 BUT the insite does not give you that back blast like most brakes but is still VERY effective.

with RL26 in the 65SST 26" MTU ive ran 130 hybrids up to 3350fps with ZERO pressure pretty much the same combo as above...both of these cartridges are ridiculously accurate...im stil playing with the 65 and have some 144g hybrids to try next when i get time.

also ive ran H1000 in both and 4831SC in the 65...4831sc works but a little to fast...H1000 works very well and what i settled on in the 6mm.

 

[LR1845]

This is 5 109s at 3225ish at 850yds…first round low up 1/10th and 4 more.

 

[HogsLife]

This is 5 109s at 3225ish at 850yds…first round low up 1/10th and 4 more.

Yeah I’m sold on it man. Pulled the trigger on the 7Max for me, and the 7SS for the kiddo.

 

[Spock]

A 7mm-08!
mild recoil that still delivers a nice punch. IMO its exactly what you need.

Total agreement. My son has taken 4 elk with his. Perfect for smaller folks and will not cause long term flinching issues.

 

[st1650]

I second a braked 7mm-08 in the 22" length if you had to start from scratch
although you'd probably be more than fine with 6.5 creed with sako/norma onyx 156 bonded bullets as long as you're not stretching it too far.
Some of the heavier 130s 6.5 in the Barnes, Swift and 140s Accubond/Partition offerings would probably also be very reliable as long as you're realistic with the range. I probably wouldn't go with the 143 ELD-X though.

 

[LR1845]

Yeah I’m sold on it man. Pulled the trigger on the 7Max for me, and the 7SS for the kiddo.

Rich is a super nice guy too and easy to get ahold of

 

[HogsLife]

Rich is a super nice guy too and easy to get ahold of

yeah he really seems to be. I
Just found out he’s actually local to me up in Idaho. Right down the street

 

[LR1845]

yeah he really seems to be. I
Just found out he’s actually local to me up in Idaho. Right down the street

That’s awesome save on shipping lol

 

[Schw15]

yeah he really seems to be. I
Just found out he’s actually local to me up in Idaho. Right down the street

Do be aware his 7 max brass come way way to big have to resize them alot to fit in chamber.

 

[Long Range 338]

I've actually found that bullet choice is a critical component when dealing with dispatching animals quickly. Many are of the mindset that you need full penetration to follow blood trails and use lightweight bonded or homogenous bullets pushed very fast (thinking Barnes bullets here). Others like to use the thin jacketed Bergers that are heavy for caliber and don't mind if the bullet separates. With a hard bonded bullet you can have good shot placement behind the shoulder and negligible effect on the animal. Depending on bullet type I would shoot for a high shoulder shot with a bonded bullet so as to break bone and put the animal down, whereas I would take a lung/heart shot with a Berger style bullet. My $0.02