What sniper rifle is this?

[ArmedGinger]

I'm definitely seeing an MST-100 scope. Had no idea the FBI Snipers used them so I'm wondering what the scope is mounted on.

FYI this is an FBI sniper posing with the remains of the house from the Waco Standoff.

UPDATE: Ok with some digging it seems they used Remington 700 in 308 with the Unertl 10x scopes.

 

[RTH1800]

Bad topic choice.

 

[ArmedGinger]

Bad topic choice.

Just wondering what rifle he was holding?

I was sent the picture by one of my subscribers asking what the rifle was so I figured I'd ask the experts. Not sure why that is a bad topic....

 

[TheGerman]

Pure guess, but from the barrel and the stock, a Remington 700P.

From a report I read on it, the rifle wouldn't be an HRT rifle of whatever flavor they were using at the time because the FBI had zero sniper units there at the time as they were extremely overconfidant in their planning and assessment of the situation.

 

[USMCSGT0331]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/gundigest.com/military-firearms/fbi-sniper-rifles-through-the-years/amp

 

[RTH1800]

King,
That is exactly what I thought but did not post. Thanks

 

[Just Macca]

Cults... Not even once.

 

[pmclaine]

Cults... Not even once.

What does this mean?

Whatever crazy Koresh may have been, no govt has the right to toast some 80 odd people.

That isn't a picture of a guy standing in front of random debris that charcoal looking log in the background is a body.

They all took pictures there because hey killing Americans is good fun.

Celebrate it with your Harley shirt - "Merica......

 

[Just Macca]

I believe the version of events supported by the evidence is that the Branch Davidians started the fire which led to their demise.

Why they were in that position comes down to perspective I guess.

 

[pmclaine]

I believe the version of events supported by the evidence is that the Branch Davidians started the fire which led to their demise.

Why they were in that position comes down to perspective I guess.

Vietnam was escalated by NVA PT boats attacking the Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin.......wait what?

 

[Just Macca]

Regardless of differing opinions on the bounds of law, and the incidents origins; its conclusion was more than likely an avoidable tragedy.

At least we got a better picture of the rifles out of all this. All the best.

 

[pmclaine]

Yep, they got pictures from there.....

text book example of how not to do law enforcement.


Being from Australia you may not realize that over here there is a little sensitivity to this especially in light of what is occurring in VA.

People are concerned Waco might happen on smaller scale in multiple residential homes all in the name of enforcing "gun laws".

Neither Canada nor Australia understand "Shall not be infringed" nor the idea or understanding that the people need to be armed against the biggest threat to their freedom and way of life - the govt.

Believe me I am not anti govt what I am though is fully aware that lust for power attracts bad people and our Constitution provides us a last best resort in order to save ourselves from abuse.

We can not afford to give that away.

 

[308pirate]

Regardless of differing opinions on the bounds of law, and the incidents origins; its conclusion was more than likely an avoidable tragedy.

At least we got a better picture of the rifles out of all this. All the best.

Don't you have some fires of your own to go tend to?

 

[ArmedGinger]

Neither Canada nor Australia understand "Shall not be infringed" nor the idea or understanding that the people need to be armed against the biggest threat to their freedom and way of life - the govt.

Many of my subscribers do know that and will outright refuse to give up their firearms. I will be one of them. In fact I know of a couple police officers who stated that if the Government tries to send them to start collecting firearms after a full ban, they will refuse to do so and will barricade themselves in their homes to protect their own firearms.

The problem is countries like Canada never had a revolutionary war. They don't realize what it takes to be "free" of a Government they won't want. At the same time Canada never had a Civil War which did the same sort of thing. People do need to realize that your Government isn't a "God" that has to blindly followed.

But Canadians in general are a "peaceful bunch". Half the gun owners in this country will lay down and turn in whatever firearms our Government demands because they don't understand that you can stand up to a Government, even if you're not a Native.

 

[RTH1800]

Canada is peopled by folks who “who declined to participate in the revolution last time. ?

 

[pmclaine]

When the Acadians realized that not having a Second Amendment lead to their being burned in their churches they came here to becomes 'Cajuns.

And we are glad to have them.

You got our tories and draft dodgers in exchange.

 

[308pirate]

Everyone now agrees Waco was a horrible example of supposed law enforcement. The animosity it in gendered resulted in the federal courthouse being destroyed by domestic terrorists, killing all sorts of innocent people including the children at the daycare center there.

Were they domestic terrorists?

Take a look at a photo of the Murragh building after McVeigh got done with it and take a look at any German city between 1943 - 1945 after the US (Army) Air Force got done with it...…..let me know if they look any different.

 

[pmclaine]

Were they domestic terrorists?

Take a look at a photo of the Murragh building after McVeigh got done with it and take a look at any German city between 1943 - 1945 after the US (Army) Air Force got done with it...…..let me know if they look any different.

Yeah McVey was a domestic terrorist, no doubt.

Glad he is dead.

His tactics were a strategic blunder in that fight.

 

[Steel head]

It’s a bit like posting a picture of Auschwitz and asking a forum full of Jews “what brand oven is that?”

 

[ArmedGinger]

It’s a bit like posting a picture of Auschwitz and asking a forum full of Jews “what brand oven is that?”

Topf and Sons made the ovens and the gas chambers if you really want to know.

Like I said, the picture was sent to me and they asked me a question, I didn't know the answer so I forwarded here where I figure people would know. If I had know there was delicate sensibilities here or the full context of the picture then I would have put a warning in the title first.

I've dealt with crap like that in real life and seen enough pictures of that stuff I don't look at the real context. Doesn't faze me one bit.

 

[Son of Dorn]

Don’t get me wrong - I want to know who made the ovens my Romanian family members went into. Because I’m that guy.

I might be able to tell you. PM me.

 

[pmclaine]

I might be able to tell you. PM me.

No secrets. Us historically minded people want to know.

I always heard it was Topf

 

[Son of Dorn]

No secrets. Us historically minded people want to know.

I always heard it was Tops

In that case:

J.A. Topf & Soehne made the crematoria for Auschwitz, Auschwitz II–Birkenau, Buchenwald, Dachau, Mauthausen-Gusen, Mogilev ghetto, and Gross-Rosen.

H. Kori GmbH made the crematoria for Stutthof, Neuengamme, Ravensbrueck, Herzogenbusch, Bergen-Belsen, Sachsenhausen, Mittelbrau-Dora, Majdanek, Gross-Rosen, Flossenbuerg, Hersbruck, Blechhammer, Natzweiler-Struthof, Dachau, Mauthausen-Gusen, Melk, and Ebensee.

In the case of Dachau, H. Kori made four of the ovens and Topf & Soehne made the fifth. The ventilation systems for the Auschwitz gas chambers were also made by Topf & Soehne.

 

[Blutroop]

Yeah McVey was a domestic terrorist, no doubt.

Glad he is dead.

His tactics were a strategic blunder in that fight.

And you think he acted alone?

 

[pmclaine]

And you think he acted alone?

Nah, he had some help mixing up his brew getting the truck and all else.

 

[Reverie Ranges]

Back to the topic, Looks to be a Savage model 70 with a heavy barrel and Unertl scope. Second choice for opinion would be Rem 700, but more likely Savage. Lucky guess if I'm right...

 

[Downtown]

Ever miss a thread the first time around, then click on it first thing in the morning and think "Damn, wish I hadn't clicked on that! What a lousy way to start the day" I have.

 

[bigwatchpilot]

Just because you are desensitized to this, and amazingly it does not phase you doesn't mean that the community on the Hide is. it's the context of the photo and not just a photo of a dude with a rifle.

So someone sent you an email inquiring what kind of rife and FBI agent is using...I guess my response is who the F*ck would want to know. Next time consider sending an email to the FBI and ask them, I think they are the experts and would know, not necessarily this community.

Your judgement in posting the pictures is just as questionable as the guys that would want their picture taken at the scene. Not how I thought my Friday morning over coffee was going to start either....

 

[pmclaine]

Armed Ginger is a good dude.

I think there is just a cultural divide and lack of awareness regards the whole episode.

Example of why being against assimilating new immigrants to this country is so dangerous.

Even our friends in Canada need to be brought up to speed on the history of the USA should they come south of the border......not that Armed Ginger is intending to.

@Armed Ginger does a dozen donuts really cost over $40 Canadian?

Im betting Justin bought cruellers only as he likes the shape and challenges himself to eat them whole.

 

[ebd10]

Waco was what happens when the desire for a larger budget overrides common sense. The ATF went on their raid (after they had been compromised) in order to make a big, splashy, headline in the hopes that it would provide credibility to their requests for more money. Instead, what it did was get people killed.

Enter the FBI. There are conflicting accounts of what happened, but this is what we know: there was a fire, a whole bunch of people died, and the evidence was lost and destroyed before a full investigation could be made.

If nothing else, it gave America a glimpse into what happens when a group is demonized, isolated, and eliminated by an out of control government entity.

 

[sandwarrior]

Pure guess, but from the barrel and the stock, a Remington 700P.

From a report I read on it, the rifle wouldn't be an HRT rifle of whatever flavor they were using at the time because the FBI had zero sniper units there at the time as they were extremely overconfidant in their planning and assessment of the situation.

No, Lon Horiuchi, the man who shot Sara Weaver, was there. I can't say he was part of a unit or not, though.

Correction: Vicki Weaver, Sara is the daughter who was a young girl at the time.

 

[sandwarrior]

Regardless of differing opinions on the bounds of law, and the incidents origins; its conclusion was more than likely an avoidable tragedy.

At least we got a better picture of the rifles out of all this. All the best.

So, I guess it was okay to shoot an unarmed woman holding a baby?

 

[sandwarrior]

View attachment 7232934

I hate to say it, but it might mean a little more if it wasn't under Reagan's administration that the whole Randy Weaver investigation/blackmail hadn't started. In 1986, the justice department under Reagan pursued him to inform on the "white supremecists" in north Idaho. It was under Reagan that Randy was blackmailed back into informing because of the shortened shotgun. Not that the barrel was less that 18", but that the shotgun was under length overall. When Randy decided he had had enough of the whole charade was under the Bush Sr. administration. Charges for the shotgun, the siege and murder of his wife all took place under the Bush Sr. administration. Then to throw salt in his wounds, Clinton, with Janet Reno as his AG, held him in jail and charged him.

Two Republican administrations and one Democrat administration all conspired to take the rights away of an individual "for the good of the country." Also, note that it was under Reagan that you lost the right to purchase a new full auto weapon. So, before you hold him up as righteous again, you might want to think about that.

 

[Corprin]

Sometimes I feel that clicking on some threads in this forum gets me on one or more watch lists. Typically when the bear pit oozes beyond its perimeter.

Le sigh.

 

[sandwarrior]

Sometimes I feel that clicking on some threads in this forum gets me on one or more watch lists. Typically when the bear pit oozes beyond its perimeter.

Le sigh.

Clicking on it doesn't get you there. Responding does. You should see the little black helicopters that fly around up here. No one says they saw them before I got here.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Also, note that it was under Reagan that you lost the right to purchase a new full auto weapon.

To be fair, that whole situation is a lot more complex than your statement makes it sound.

 

[Fig]

Also, the problem isn't necessarily any one administration, though some make the problem worse, some arrest the decay, and at least one actually works to make it better. Today we call it, "The Deep State", but it didn't spring forth fully-formed from the head of Obama. All Obama did was mash the accelerator and make it clear that he had their back if they committed crimes (Lerner, Koskinen, Etc.) to advance his Marxist agenda. It has been growing and metastasizing and becoming more and more political for several generations and through several cycles of bureaucrats till where we arrive today. A totally unaccountable Federal Bureaucracy for whom laws do not apply, and who shield politicians who support their crimes by giving them the same cover.

I don't think anyone who admires Regan and thinks he was a good man think he was perfect. I also don't think any of that Federal Executive branch excess (allowing them, whatever) were among his worst mistakes. He made much bigger ones IMHO, but that does not mean he still wasn't a great President.

 

[Tylerm713]

Well this was a fun ride.

 

[sandwarrior]

To be fair, that whole situation is a lot more complex than your statement makes it sound.

No, it wasn’t really any more complex than that is exactly what he said when he signed off on it.

Yes, other people drafted the legislation. But he was all about nobody owning anything but a ‘cowboy’ or ‘hunting’ gun.

The Randy Weaver issue started under his administration. With his okay to take steps to recruit and, by whatever necessary means, to get an informant into the white supremacist faction so they could prosecute. It didn’t start under Carter. Stupid thing is there were two completely different groups up there. The Neo-Nazi’s in Rathdrum, and the Swedes in Bonners Ferry. The Neo-Nazi’s are pretty much gone. The Swedes are as strong as they ever were.

The point is, the justice departments of three administrations were left unchecked when they perpetrated crimes against an individual. But, it started with Reagan.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I see nothing wrong with this discussion. These are things that should be taught to our children and grand children.... Rather than allow Hollywood to educate them.

Hobo

 

[drum13]

There was a book published in 2001 titled Cold Zero by an FBI HRT sniper Chris Whitcomb.

I don't have it anymore but I remember he got very detailed about gear. It wouldn't surprise me if the rifles they were issued were described in it.

Also In the book, he wrote chapters about both Waco and Ruby Ridge incidents as he was deployed to both.

 

[Scwalker83]

Our constitution is chains upon a monster. Every concession and relinquishment of our rights and freedoms is weakening a link of those chains and granting the beast more strength. One day that beast will be upon us.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

No, it wasn’t really any more complex than that is exactly what he said when he signed off on it.

Yes, other people drafted the legislation. But he was all about nobody owning anything but a ‘cowboy’ or ‘hunting’ gun.

Huges was added into an otherwise pro-gun bill (FOPA) at an attempt to poison the legislation. Reagan signed it after the NRA told him they'd fight Hughes in court to get the ban overturned.... then never bothered. Meanwhile, FOPA means you can't be arrested and tried for driving across state lines with a firearm.

So, yeah, it is more complicated than your original statement.

Edit: I almost forgot - if you go watch the video (yes, it exists) of the Hughes amendment being brought up for vote on the Senate floor, you'll see that the amendment was rammed through by none other than Charlie Rangel after a voice vote failed, and he refused a roll call vote. If I remember right, Republicans claimed it would be stripped in reconciliation between the House (without Huges) and Senate (with it) versions, but it wasn't. Then came the failed promise by the NRA that they'd fight Huges in court.

 

[sandwarrior]

Huges was added into an otherwise pro-gun bill (FOPA) at an attempt to poison the legislation. Reagan signed it after the NRA told him they'd fight Hughes in court to get the ban overturned.... then never bothered. Meanwhile, FOPA means you can't be arrested and tried for driving across state lines with a firearm.

So, yeah, it is more complicated than your original statement.

Edit: I almost forgot - if you go watch the video (yes, it exists) of the Hughes amendment being brought up for vote on the Senate floor, you'll see that the amendment was rammed through by none other than Charlie Rangel after a voice vote failed, and he refused a roll call vote. If I remember right, Republicans claimed it would be stripped in reconciliation between the House (without Huges) and Senate (with it) versions, but it wasn't. Then came the failed promise by the NRA that they'd fight Huges in court.

You just made my point. Other people drafted the legislation and deals were made behind closed doors. But, Reagan happily signed off on that legislation while proclaiming we don't need machine guns. IMO, we don't really need machine guns, but that isn't the point. It's a restriction on our constitutional right. And you just posted the man who signed it.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

You just made my point. Other people drafted the legislation and deals were made behind closed doors. But, Reagan happily signed off on that legislation while proclaiming we don't need machine guns. IMO, we don't really need machine guns, but that isn't the point. It's a restriction on our constitutional right. And you just posted the man who signed it.

The only post I have made in this thread is refuting your broad generalization of how Hughes came to be.

 

[sandwarrior]

The only post I have made in this thread is refuting your broad generalization of how Hughes came to be.

I never generalized SHIT about hughs. You bought him up.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I never generalized SHIT about hughs. You bought him up.

Uhh..... The Hughes Amendment is the machine gun registration ban. The very ban you've been talking about from the beginning. The same amendment I explained earlier that was shoe-horned into an otherwise PRO-gun bill. The same bill Reagan signed after a promise from the NRA to fight the MG ban in court.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Uhh..... The Hughes Amendment is the machine gun registration ban.

Which was passed by an illegal vote, ramrodded thru by dingle.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

Which was passed by an illegal vote, ramrodded thru by dingle.

Correct-a-mundo!

Also, I stand corrected - it was rammed through in the House, not the Senate. I got it backwards.

Here's some info on the actual law. It's what gave us safe passage through states like NJ and IL, banned federal firearm databases/registration for non-NFA firearms, help curtail abuses by the ATF, and restricted FFL compliance inspections to once a year unless there were problems.

 

[Jackomason]

I'm a young (25) dual citizen, Canadain and American. I moved to Colorado 5 years ago. I first heard of Ruby ridge about 2 years ago and this is the first I've heard of Waco.

I think we need to give the OP a free pass on this one. This stuff isn't talked about regularly and unless you stumble on it you'd never know just by every day life. I wouldn't have thought anything of the picture initially either and it's an unrealistic expectation to put on someone.

Now, its sickening to learn about but as an American I'm glad I clicked here. I would not compare the OP to the man in the picture. There's no need for that...