Advanced Marksmanship What technique do you use engaging moving targets?

[Hootiewho]

I am curious what the more popular method of engaging movers is here, tracking or ambush? This is for a scoped precision rifle at distance.

Does the distance to the target reflect in your decision of the method used? Meaning, when laying prone and shooting a mover at 500, the amount of traverse you have to physically move is less than a target at 100, so does that factor into your decision?

Also, does your shooting position make a difference in how you engage movers?

I've shot a good bit on movers with pistol/carbine under 100 yards and feel I have a good grasp on that, but with a scoped rifle at distance I need to improve, so any tips would be appreciated.

 

[djskit]

When I started, I used to track, but now I ambush. I haven't had much experience with movers inside 200. The one at our range is set at 420 - As soon as I see 2 mils centered on the targert, I press the trigger.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Started with Ambush long ago then went to tracking but quickly found ambushing is much easier for me.

 

[DamnYuppie]

I too prefer to ambush then track. It just has always been easier.

 

[Lowlight]

Most inexperienced shooters use either Track or Ambush, as you get experienced you find a hybrid of the two starts to form. Tracking through and stopping a 1/2 mil in front of your release point then firing and tracking through again.

The issue with people and movers is going too fast and trying to focus on quantity and not quality of the shots. You'll get them missing really fast with a high rate of fire. They feel the need to shoot more in hopes the volume of lead will equal success.

Another tip, is moving your hips while engaging, this keeps your NPA in line and does not create a muscling factor. The longer the distance the easier it is to engage a mover, you traverse less, movers inside 200, especially at 100 with a bolt gun are much harder than a mover at 400 yards.

I just set up the In Motion Mover at my Training Range after using it during the 2014 Sniper's Hide Cup and will be doing a series of lessons with it on engaging a moving target.

 

[varmint slayer]

I've only shot 1 mover at 450 and trapping just makes more sense to me. Worked pretty good for me and everybody in my squad who shot movers way more than me.

 

[Thebelly]

I track inside of 300 or so, but ambush for farther out.

For me, there are two factors that lead me to this: my reaction time (between ID'ing the target, touching the round off, and the required lead time of the target) and how long the target will be in my field of view.

At closer ranges, if you're at 15x mag., a target that is moving parallel to your position probably won't be in your FOV for very long. I'll track that target. To do so, I put my bipod on an inverted frisbee (seriously). This allows me to have a pivot point that's up by the muzzle, and not me shifting my fat butt inches at a time. basically, just slide the front of the rifle to track it.

At the farther distances, a similar situation (same target size, speed, and parallel direction of travel) the target will be in your FOV for a long period of time, so it's easier for me to ambush that type of target.

 

[Thebelly]

The issue with people and movers is going too fast and trying to focus on quantity and not quality of the shots. You'll get them missing really fast with a high rate of fire. They feel the need to shoot more in hopes the volume of lead will equal success.

Jake Bynum corrected my initial tendency to do this. I don't want to owe him any more cases.

 

[Hootiewho]

Good info guys.Your feedback will be great help to me and I am sure others on here as well. I had been tracking and honestly I sucked. I am going to start using the ambush technique, as that is what my gut told me to do all along, but when I was taught to shoot the moving targets at BW/UTAC/Academi with pistol/carbine, I was taught to track. This works fine up close, but for myself I cannot make it work at distance.

I am hoping to make something similar to the In Motion target system for myself, just finding the time is all that is holding me back.

 

[shovelstrokeed]

If I may offer a suggestion to make tracking easier. It won't work in every case but hard crossers at skeet or international trap are best dealt with by catching the target from behind, swinging through it and, without stopping the gun, press the trigger when the appropriate lead is obtained. Granted, there are a few differences. The skeet is going 55 mph at a distance of 15 yards and I doubt you could keep up with or catch the same target at 100 yards. Just no way to move the gun that quick and stay on elevation. A 20 mph mover would be a lot easier though and the swing through technique should work pretty well.

 

[Lowlight]

Most movers are going 2 to 6 MPH, nobody engages a 20MPH mover... shotguns are apples and oranges for several reasons.

 

[flounderv2]

The other thing I learned when shooting movers and figuring out your technique is determining your hold point. Example

Say the all the calculations work out to be that its a 2mil hold for the mover. (Im obviously not going into lock time etc which is shooter dependent). See if you like holding 2mil with crosshairs dead center of the target or maybe you prefer holding 1.5mil with your shot break at the leading edge of the target. A lot of times people will ask someone on the line what their hold is for the mover and they will give you an honest answer but the thing they forget is people have different aiming points which could mean the difference between a hit or miss. (i.e. Edge of target / Center of target)

 

[djskit]

The other thing I learned when shooting movers and figuring out your technique is determining your hold point. Example

Say the all the calculations work out to be that its a 2mil hold for the mover. (Im obviously not going into lock time etc which is shooter dependent). See if you like holding 2mil with crosshairs dead center of the target or maybe you prefer holding 1.5mil with your shot break at the leading edge of the target. A lot of times people will ask someone on the line what their hold is for the mover and they will give you an honest answer but the thing they forget is people have different aiming points which could mean the difference between a hit or miss. (i.e. Edge of target / Center of target)

This is a good point. I find it a cleaner picture to look for my 2.0 hash right in the center before I hit the trigger. Others look for the leading edge of the target to hit their mark.

 

[Hootiewho]

This is a good point. I find it a cleaner picture to look for my 2.0 hash right in the center before I hit the trigger. Others look for the leading edge of the target to hit their mark.

The center makes the most sense to me. I have never understood why most shoot at full value, face on targets for movers. Like any potential adversary will be walking or running sideways. Seems to me atleast a half value or target dimensions equal to a side view should be the norm. If one gets use to holding leading edge on an 18" wide target to hit center, doing that on something half that wide or smaller could end up a miss all together.

 

[M40_A1]

The center makes the most sense to me. I have never understood why most shoot at full value, face on targets for movers. Like any potential adversary will be walking or running sideways. Seems to me atleast a half value or target dimensions equal to a side view should be the norm. If one gets use to holding leading edge on an 18" wide target to hit center, doing that on something half that wide or smaller could end up a miss all together.

I had to edit my post because I intitially misunderstood you. I agree with what you are saying 100%. Figure your lead to center of target, whether that lead is exactly 2 mils, or 2 1/4 mils, whatever. I'm sure some mover targets are made in profile though for that very reason.

As an aside, remember, a mover heading almost toward or away from you is half value. A quartering (45-degree) mover is 3/4 value, just like wind values.

 

[Chanonry]

I am curious what the more popular method of engaging movers is here, tracking or ambush? This is for a scoped precision rifle at distance.

Does the distance to the target reflect in your decision of the method used? Meaning, when laying prone and shooting a mover at 500, the amount of traverse you have to physically move is less than a target at 100, so does that factor into your decision?

Also, does your shooting position make a difference in how you engage movers?

I've shot a good bit on movers with pistol/carbine under 100 yards and feel I have a good grasp on that, but with a scoped rifle at distance I need to improve, so any tips would be appreciated.

Can't say I have tried this but...

Sporting clays would suggest that you should probably use two different techniques for close and long crossers. The issue is the angular rotation required to give you a sensible time synched with the target.

So because of the greater angular rotation of a close target a brief period of maintaining a lead should give best results. Not pure ambush, but it is ambush with a very short period of synch with the target.

You can do the same thing on a longer target however you have the time to track bit longer/pull in front to your lead within the same sort of angular rotation as the closer target but with better control. Again a brief synch before firing with increase the hit probabilities markedly.

Key issues are being smooth and getting the balance of minimum gun movement while not shooting with a dead gun.

All techniques will work it is just a matter of probabilities.

 

[Strykervet]

Training shooters, SDM's, it was determined that ambush be taught first, with tracking introduced later. For some folks, they pick up on one or the other quickly. For ones that pick up tracking right away, kudos to them, it is the more difficult of the methods. Ambush is easier, but you have limited time and opportunity to engage --you depend on guessing where the target will be and hoping he'll be there. Tracking you have the ability to make moment changes and it's much more flexible in the hands of an accomplished shooter.

Tracking is generally considered a method honed by practice and utilized by many snipers I knew as a matter of practice. SDM's seem to prefer ambush, as an overall observation. So depending on what you want to do, IMO it would be wise to master ambush, then work on tracking as it involves more variables you'll need to control in order to get satisfactory results.

Having mastery of both tracking and ambush is highly beneficial as one works better than the other given certain conditions, and given other conditions, it could be one is faster or more efficient than the other. Again, all depending on the shooter and his/her skills.

Good luck!

 

[steve123]

IMO, tracking introduces too much vertical error due to the natural wobble that comes with moving the rifle to do so. With trapping/ambushing you can hold steady while waiting for the perfect shot. Just use the horizontal crosshair which has already been aligned with the path of the mover till the intersect arrives. I've found that using the edge of the steel for POA as it comes in gives me a more specific aim point. I cheat though because I use those .2 mils lines in the H-59 as my aimpoint in the reticle for hold off. If time and circumstance allows I try my best to make most of my shots on the downwind side that the target is moving so that the bullet is blown in the same direction that the target is moving, doing so permits me to ambush closer to the target.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

it helps to have shot a lot of skeet, 5-stand and sporting clays,in the wind......movers don't always move consistent, pigs on the hoof will tune you up quick also.

 

[TorF]

Here is a video of the old Olympic event "Running Deer Doubles"

Range 100m, 5 points X-ring app 6", 4 point app 10". Tracking target with app 6mil/20moa lead.

Program is 40 shots/20 runs. Norwegian official record is 198 points = 38 x and two "4" out of 200 points max.

No thumbhole rifles here..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1Xp__8k038&feature=youtu.be

 

[40xs]

I use distance of travel in 1.5 seconds. an average .308 will take 1.5 seconds to reach 1k yds. Observe subject moving at whatever distance and how far it travels based on how far away it is. ie; 250 yds. and has moved roughly 5ft. in 1.5 seconds. I would hold about 2ft. in front, no more.

 

[KevinU]

Most inexperienced shooters use either Track or Ambush, as you get experienced you find a hybrid of the two starts to form. Tracking through and stopping a 1/2 mil in front of your release point then firing and tracking through again.

The issue with people and movers is going too fast and trying to focus on quantity and not quality of the shots. You'll get them missing really fast with a high rate of fire. They feel the need to shoot more in hopes the volume of lead will equal success.

Another tip, is moving your hips while engaging, this keeps your NPA in line and does not create a muscling factor. The longer the distance the easier it is to engage a mover, you traverse less, movers inside 200, especially at 100 with a bolt gun are much harder than a mover at 400 yards.

I just set up the In Motion Mover at my Training Range after using it during the 2014 Sniper's Hide Cup and will be doing a series of lessons with it on engaging a moving target.

I shot at a the above In Motion Mover at this past weekends T3 match, first time shooting a mover, 531 yds, 3 mph target speed, 12-15mph cross wind. Distance between start/stop? We had 4 passes of the mover, 10 shots.

My plan was the hybrid approach, aim/break point center of target. I shot way too fast, ten shots in three passes, only 5 hits.

Next match, will slow down, stay with the hybrid approach, leading edge the aim/break point.

Question, hold wind or dial? I held.

 

[MTETM]

Dial Wind
Trap
Leading edge...Focus on the reticle!

 

[TheGerman]

Dial Wind
Trap
Leading edge...Focus on the reticle!

The most important piece that people don't remember - the wind.

There can be conditions where you actually aim behind someone if holding for a mover plus the wind.

 

[walt willis]

That is easy...

Hold a round up to drop it and count the time it took to hit the ground adjusted for the elevation difference and then use Kentucky windage to off set your lead time to target.

 

[M40_A1]

Rofl!

 

[TheGerman]

That is easy...

Hold a round up to drop it and count the time it took to hit the ground adjusted for the elevation difference and then use Kentucky windage to off set your lead time to target.

what?