I recently posted on another forum about some experimental stuff im working on and was told repeatedly by the moderator that what I was doin was silly and dangerous. Im an engineer and happen to know my way around lathes, precision machinery, and so on. My best friend is a 20 year gunsmith and a marine sniper. We have been messing with the capabilities of the 300 wsm and pressure capabilities. We made modifications to a surgeon long action and kreiger heavy palma barrel. Long story short, we long throated it for 220s. The coal was 3.15". The gain in capacity allowed for a charge of 68gr of h4350 or similar. I say 68 cause that's when we got extremely high pressure signs like a smashed rim and severe blowback. I know this is not something that a novice should even mess with but the guy just wanted to come come off like a dick about something that I just mentioned. I had already mentioned that the pressures were unsafe and he just continued to try and inform me of his "expertise". I finally sent him a pm with my town and phone number that states if he would like to meet up and settle this like men, we could. Otherwise shut the fuck up and have a nice day. Like there's not a builder out there who hasn't pushed the 75k pressure limit in some form or another. Just because he read in a book that its unsafe with factory equipment (and its not) doesn't give him the right to preach on someone's ideas like he's even on the same playing field. The worst part is that I think he's a marine and I don't know any who would act out of character like that to a complete stranger. Anyway, that's my peeve today. I think I could've handled it better, but some people's belligerence gets to me sometime. Everyone with the ability should be able to experiment to the upper limits as long as they have some clue as to what they're doing and should be able to gather constructive advice when telling folks what they're up to. I've never belittled a stranger and will never. Y'all be good.
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What the hell?!
- Thread starter outlaw81
- Start date
Re: What the hell?!
Sorry to hear about your experience on another forum and I completely understand your need to vent, just last night I had a post attacked on a different forum by a moderator, he was bold enough to pick my post apart and point out my unsafe actions and lack of training before knowing anything about me. Unfortunately it seems that this may be the price of admission on other forums if you try to share something that is outside of the conventional thinking or way of doing things.
Anyway stay safe and good luck with your experimental work.
P.S. I have to add one caveat, whether we want it or not and whether we like or not by posting on a public forum we are in a way asking for others opinions and criticisms on what we are posting and we should always take that with a grain of salt.
Sorry to hear about your experience on another forum and I completely understand your need to vent, just last night I had a post attacked on a different forum by a moderator, he was bold enough to pick my post apart and point out my unsafe actions and lack of training before knowing anything about me. Unfortunately it seems that this may be the price of admission on other forums if you try to share something that is outside of the conventional thinking or way of doing things.
Anyway stay safe and good luck with your experimental work.
P.S. I have to add one caveat, whether we want it or not and whether we like or not by posting on a public forum we are in a way asking for others opinions and criticisms on what we are posting and we should always take that with a grain of salt.
Re: What the hell?!
Let me see if I can spell it out for you. Some people just stick their noses in other peoples business. Sometimes it is well founded.I listened to your story now let me tell you one.
I also have a friend who is a gunsmith, a damn good one. He tells me all the good "mad gun scientist" stories. Many times and I mean MANY, when an experiement goes wrong the action will still be quite intact....to the naked eye. The mad scientist will often decide to "offload" this action or possibly the entire test gun on some easily duped rube. Now we have a ticking time bomb coming to a range near you.
Bob goes to my friend and wants him to rebarrel a gun. He looks at the action and points out a few concerns and Bob fesses up that this gun has been "blown" but it has a new bolt and will be fine in the cartridge he has chosen. When pressed Bob admits he had it Magnafluxed and they found a couple shallow cracks in the action ring but it has held together fine. If I remember correctly he had it welded. Of course he refuses the work. The kicker is I realize that I have shared the line with this gun side by side. Bob keeps being told to keep it at home and it keeps showing up in a new stock, new paint, etc.
That is one of several stories I have but the rest will have to stay in my pocket because if I say too much some here will know exactly who, where and what no matter how much I change the name and the scenario. Suffice it to say I know of 3 blown up guns that were simply given a new bolt and had the lug abatements cleaned up and they were built and sold.
If you are doing tests that cause head brass to flow you are playing one hell of a dangerous game. You can damage an action and it may not show up for a while. The guy that attacked you may know what I know, it is a very small world and guns move around. I don't want to be on the line the day the guy that got a great deal on a used rifle tests his new toy and it opens up like a tuna can.
When you are young you tend to do pretty risky things that seem like a good idea at the time, I did my share of those things. Also inviting someone you have never seen to a fight is pretty telling of your lack of good judgement, unless you are a part time UFC fighter when you aren't engineering. It sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. No need to put yourself at risk over something that has already been done. You aren't invincible no matter how young you are, what doesn't kill you can screw you up for life.
Let me see if I can spell it out for you. Some people just stick their noses in other peoples business. Sometimes it is well founded.I listened to your story now let me tell you one.
I also have a friend who is a gunsmith, a damn good one. He tells me all the good "mad gun scientist" stories. Many times and I mean MANY, when an experiement goes wrong the action will still be quite intact....to the naked eye. The mad scientist will often decide to "offload" this action or possibly the entire test gun on some easily duped rube. Now we have a ticking time bomb coming to a range near you.
Bob goes to my friend and wants him to rebarrel a gun. He looks at the action and points out a few concerns and Bob fesses up that this gun has been "blown" but it has a new bolt and will be fine in the cartridge he has chosen. When pressed Bob admits he had it Magnafluxed and they found a couple shallow cracks in the action ring but it has held together fine. If I remember correctly he had it welded. Of course he refuses the work. The kicker is I realize that I have shared the line with this gun side by side. Bob keeps being told to keep it at home and it keeps showing up in a new stock, new paint, etc.
That is one of several stories I have but the rest will have to stay in my pocket because if I say too much some here will know exactly who, where and what no matter how much I change the name and the scenario. Suffice it to say I know of 3 blown up guns that were simply given a new bolt and had the lug abatements cleaned up and they were built and sold.
If you are doing tests that cause head brass to flow you are playing one hell of a dangerous game. You can damage an action and it may not show up for a while. The guy that attacked you may know what I know, it is a very small world and guns move around. I don't want to be on the line the day the guy that got a great deal on a used rifle tests his new toy and it opens up like a tuna can.
When you are young you tend to do pretty risky things that seem like a good idea at the time, I did my share of those things. Also inviting someone you have never seen to a fight is pretty telling of your lack of good judgement, unless you are a part time UFC fighter when you aren't engineering. It sounds to me like you are trying to reinvent the wheel. No need to put yourself at risk over something that has already been done. You aren't invincible no matter how young you are, what doesn't kill you can screw you up for life.
Re: What the hell?!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twigglenutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I finally sent him a pm with my town and phone number that states if he would like to meet up and settle this like men, we could. Otherwise shut the fuck up and have a nice day. </div></div>
I stopped reading here. This is something 14 year old internet commandos do. I've had to scrap with a few people because of my job and I will tell you something I've learned, you never know what you are getting into till you're in it. I've tossed big guys around like a rag doll and I've had tiny people put up a fight like a silverback gorilla. Its a different game when you aren't in a show fight over some girl at a bar and the other guy is really trying to hurt you.
I'm sure you did it because you were pissed, but its pretty juvenile and no part of it has any good judgment involved. You can't please everyone and not everybody will like you or agree with you. So don't get yourself wound up over what some fool on the internet thinks about you when you've never met them, don't respect them, and their opinion doesn't matter.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twigglenutz</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I finally sent him a pm with my town and phone number that states if he would like to meet up and settle this like men, we could. Otherwise shut the fuck up and have a nice day. </div></div>
I stopped reading here. This is something 14 year old internet commandos do. I've had to scrap with a few people because of my job and I will tell you something I've learned, you never know what you are getting into till you're in it. I've tossed big guys around like a rag doll and I've had tiny people put up a fight like a silverback gorilla. Its a different game when you aren't in a show fight over some girl at a bar and the other guy is really trying to hurt you.
I'm sure you did it because you were pissed, but its pretty juvenile and no part of it has any good judgment involved. You can't please everyone and not everybody will like you or agree with you. So don't get yourself wound up over what some fool on the internet thinks about you when you've never met them, don't respect them, and their opinion doesn't matter.
Re: What the hell?!
None of us and none of the Moderators here are referees. So don't come over to here and start raggin on what happened somewhere else.
Genuinely sorry to read about your feelings getting hurt on the Internet. I have had some similar experience.
Until you recognize that this is not our problem, and there's probably no good solution ever going to become available for such things, it will continue to happen.
I don't enjoy being blunt, but this is the long and the short of it.
Move on.
Greg
None of us and none of the Moderators here are referees. So don't come over to here and start raggin on what happened somewhere else.
Genuinely sorry to read about your feelings getting hurt on the Internet. I have had some similar experience.
Until you recognize that this is not our problem, and there's probably no good solution ever going to become available for such things, it will continue to happen.
I don't enjoy being blunt, but this is the long and the short of it.
Move on.
Greg
Re: What the hell?!
Oh I've moved on. I pretty much forgot about it after the guy sent me a reply apology. The only reason I brought it up over here is to bounce it off someone else. Its all good now. I never try putting people in there place, but something about the guy Just rubbed me wrong. It was a learning experience on my part. I tend to do more shooting than typing and just need to learn to ignore folks who probably have that reversed. I lmao about that post where someone mentioned that unless ur a ufc fighter on the side u should get into stuff like that. I've trained with my childhood friend Cortez for the past 5 years and he's a pride fighter!! LOL! Thought that was ironic. I did the STUPID thing and gave that guy my # and home town. Im just glad he's not a nut and had the courage to apologize. We both acted like children. Anyways its almost OU football time and I got beers to drink n Hooters to enjoy. Y'all have a good weekend! !
Oh I've moved on. I pretty much forgot about it after the guy sent me a reply apology. The only reason I brought it up over here is to bounce it off someone else. Its all good now. I never try putting people in there place, but something about the guy Just rubbed me wrong. It was a learning experience on my part. I tend to do more shooting than typing and just need to learn to ignore folks who probably have that reversed. I lmao about that post where someone mentioned that unless ur a ufc fighter on the side u should get into stuff like that. I've trained with my childhood friend Cortez for the past 5 years and he's a pride fighter!! LOL! Thought that was ironic. I did the STUPID thing and gave that guy my # and home town. Im just glad he's not a nut and had the courage to apologize. We both acted like children. Anyways its almost OU football time and I got beers to drink n Hooters to enjoy. Y'all have a good weekend! !
Re: What the hell?!
You have a long action and you are trying to push the pressure limits to see what the short 300 mag cartridge will do...
A simple fix to this so-called problem is to use the 300 Ultra mag at average pressure and you will out-do the short mag at insane and very dangerous pressures.
As far as the unseen damage to the action, that's been covered.
I just don't get it
You have a long action and you are trying to push the pressure limits to see what the short 300 mag cartridge will do...
A simple fix to this so-called problem is to use the 300 Ultra mag at average pressure and you will out-do the short mag at insane and very dangerous pressures.
As far as the unseen damage to the action, that's been covered.
I just don't get it
Re: What the hell?!
I get the experimental thing. I hope you don't think I'm bagging on what you're doing.
I love experimenting too, but my budget just does not allow for testing with the possibility of destroying actions/barrels, nor do I have a place to play like that.
I hope you find wht you're looking for, just be safe doing it and don't pass that action along to another after all is said and done.
Good luck
I get the experimental thing. I hope you don't think I'm bagging on what you're doing.
I love experimenting too, but my budget just does not allow for testing with the possibility of destroying actions/barrels, nor do I have a place to play like that.
I hope you find wht you're looking for, just be safe doing it and don't pass that action along to another after all is said and done.
Good luck
Re: What the hell?!
Surprise!
You mean this one or did you post the same info somewhere else and get called unsafe there too?
You never sent me a PM, so you must be talking about another forum, then.
You also said you were shooting 210's at 3100 fps from a .300WSM with 75 grains of H4350, not 220's with 68 gr like you posted here.
Guess what, people are calling that unsafe here too.
Surprise!
You mean this one or did you post the same info somewhere else and get called unsafe there too?
You never sent me a PM, so you must be talking about another forum, then.
You also said you were shooting 210's at 3100 fps from a .300WSM with 75 grains of H4350, not 220's with 68 gr like you posted here.
Guess what, people are calling that unsafe here too.
Re: What the hell?!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkless</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any time someone starts a statement with "I'm an engineer" I cringe. </div></div>
Thats funny!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkless</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any time someone starts a statement with "I'm an engineer" I cringe. </div></div>
Thats funny!
Re: What the hell?!
This thread took a funny turn with "Surprise!"
Sometimes it is good to sit quietly and chew with your mouth closed.
This thread took a funny turn with "Surprise!"
Sometimes it is good to sit quietly and chew with your mouth closed.
Re: What the hell?!
It is as I suspected. Mr. Nutz is a kid, as I suspected from the picture he posted of himself when he frist signed up on this site. He has been Engineering for 15 years on stuff like this which means he has been doing these experiments since he was around 10 or 12 at the outside, judging by those smooth arms and upper lip I would say 5 or 6. If he is an engineer why is his occupation private security.....oh I know it sounds really cool. Sorry but most people don't have patience for bullshit.
Trashing the action when it gets a stress crack is a great idea, not very feasible but a great idea. Most stress fractures in steel are microscopic and cannot be detected until it is too late. A visible stress crack is not a stress crack at all, but actual failure. What am I telling you this for you are the engineer.
I work with engineers every day. I work with some that designed a 6 story building with an 18" industrial water line feeding all 3 floors. This was a building that would handle all the sludge from an entire county. They designed the building with NO floor drains, absolutely none. Floor drains had to be put in as an afterthought and they have never worked correctly and most are higher than the floor level. If an engineer tells me he is developing something new and exciting for me to hold inches from my face and fire please excuse me if I view the ideas with great trepidation.
It is as I suspected. Mr. Nutz is a kid, as I suspected from the picture he posted of himself when he frist signed up on this site. He has been Engineering for 15 years on stuff like this which means he has been doing these experiments since he was around 10 or 12 at the outside, judging by those smooth arms and upper lip I would say 5 or 6. If he is an engineer why is his occupation private security.....oh I know it sounds really cool. Sorry but most people don't have patience for bullshit.
Trashing the action when it gets a stress crack is a great idea, not very feasible but a great idea. Most stress fractures in steel are microscopic and cannot be detected until it is too late. A visible stress crack is not a stress crack at all, but actual failure. What am I telling you this for you are the engineer.
I work with engineers every day. I work with some that designed a 6 story building with an 18" industrial water line feeding all 3 floors. This was a building that would handle all the sludge from an entire county. They designed the building with NO floor drains, absolutely none. Floor drains had to be put in as an afterthought and they have never worked correctly and most are higher than the floor level. If an engineer tells me he is developing something new and exciting for me to hold inches from my face and fire please excuse me if I view the ideas with great trepidation.
Re: What the hell?!
My Gosh, between earning an engineering degree and shooting ragheads as a counter-sniper in the sandbox. However do you do it?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7659654#post7659654
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've taken whitetail at 1050, elk at 600, grizzly at 300, and rag heads up to 1500. The preparation in long shots is very very important, as is the cartridge and its design. </div></div>
The thread gets very rich . . . put on some high boots before you venture into it.
My Gosh, between earning an engineering degree and shooting ragheads as a counter-sniper in the sandbox. However do you do it?
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7659654#post7659654
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've taken whitetail at 1050, elk at 600, grizzly at 300, and rag heads up to 1500. The preparation in long shots is very very important, as is the cartridge and its design. </div></div>
The thread gets very rich . . . put on some high boots before you venture into it.
Re: What the hell?!
armorpl8chikn,
He claims to be 29.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4534852#post4534852
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm Jacob from SE OK. 29 years old and been hunting solo for about 21 years. I've had the luxury of inheriting a fine collection of Belgium Brownings, Win 70's, Mannlicher's, Rem 700's, Savages, & Kimber Rifles. I started reloading when I was eleven (with Dad & Grandpa of course!), and by no means do I know it all, but I may have a good piece of advice or two!!! </div></div>
But between all the rest of the bullcrap, who knows what true. His claims of "building guns, improving actions and making bullets" have him starting at 10 years old according to that math. And managed to cut hundreds of chambers, to boot.
But of course I'm not an engineer, so my math might be off.
armorpl8chikn,
He claims to be 29.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4534852#post4534852
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm Jacob from SE OK. 29 years old and been hunting solo for about 21 years. I've had the luxury of inheriting a fine collection of Belgium Brownings, Win 70's, Mannlicher's, Rem 700's, Savages, & Kimber Rifles. I started reloading when I was eleven (with Dad & Grandpa of course!), and by no means do I know it all, but I may have a good piece of advice or two!!! </div></div>
But between all the rest of the bullcrap, who knows what true. His claims of "building guns, improving actions and making bullets" have him starting at 10 years old according to that math. And managed to cut hundreds of chambers, to boot.
But of course I'm not an engineer, so my math might be off.
Re: What the hell?!
68 grains of H4350 with a 220 grain bullet? That's a full 10 grains (17% more by weight) over the max load listed by Hodgdon. Even considering that powder manufacturer load data is conservative, the "long throated" barrel, and the OP's engineering expertise, that load sounds absolutely nuclear.
68 grains of H4350 with a 220 grain bullet? That's a full 10 grains (17% more by weight) over the max load listed by Hodgdon. Even considering that powder manufacturer load data is conservative, the "long throated" barrel, and the OP's engineering expertise, that load sounds absolutely nuclear.
