Gunsmithing What to do with barrel

[SavageSlayer]

Hey guys,

I have a Savage 10FP in .308 win that is a couple years old. I probably have about 400 rounds through her (factory barrel). I have always known the barrel was rough as it takes me a few hours to clean even if I only shoot as little as 4 rounds, plus accuracy goes to $#!+ after about 15-20 rounds. I can also see tooling marks on the lands and grooves. The thing is that this gun is capable of shooting sub .5 MOA groups but is more of a .5 - .75 MOA consistent shooter.

I have tried the traditional break in procedure (shoot one and clean x 5, shoot 3 and clean x 5, shoot 5 and clean x 5) three times. This thing is still a copper mine. I decided I wanted to try the Tubb's Final Finish to see if that would help.

I wanted to document the whole procedure so I broke out the camera to take a picure of the muzzle (I don't have a bore scope) to try to show the before and after as best I could.
After I took the pictures I was suprised by how bad this thing really looks. I have never looked at it this close before as I was able to zoom in with the camera and see things my eyes can't.

This pic shows it all.

I have no idea how the crown got damaged as I am always very careful when cleaning to not let things rub or drag and I use a bore guide. I don't let the crown touch anything ever, so I have no idea.

Here is another.

My questions are:

1) What is the process for recrowning the muzzle, should I, and how long does it take?

2) Is this barrel salvagable or should I just get a nice aftermarket barrel? Recommendations?

3) If I should go the aftermarket route, does anybody know about the drop in Savage barrels from Shilen?

4) Can anybody recommend a good gunsmith in southern California?

I appreciate all the help and advice you guys can give me.

Thank you.

 

[flyboy]

Re: What to do with barrel

Because its a Savage and you can do the rebarrel in your dinning room, I'd just get a new barrel.

 

[TitaniumBlue]

Re: What to do with barrel

I say just get a new barrel. Sharp Shooter Supply has some great prefit barrels as well as Sin Arms.

 

[captnmo]

Re: What to do with barrel

I feel your pain man! I have the exact same rifle with the same issues. Only about 100 rounds though. I was able to get a hold of a bore scope and the tooling marks were unreal. I haven't seen the pitting like yours though. I just used Wipe out to get the copper out and that worked pretty good. I'm gonna hope it smooths out here soon, but I'm already thinking like you are.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: What to do with barrel

a shilen SS select match from Jim at northland will get you going. buy a wrench and headspace gauge and you can make a vise or get wood blocks. super simple

 

[Longrange****]

Re: What to do with barrel

Yea just replace the barrel man, dont screw with it. All you will be doing is dumping money into that thing and in the long run you will still "just" have a factory barrel. Even if you do put the money into it the thing may not perform the way you want, hell it might make things worse. Replace it and see what its like to have a custom barrel!

Save the thing for future projects if you want.....

 

[Longrange****]

Re: What to do with barrel

Oh, also if you are going to buy an aftermarket barrel now is the time to consider if you really want to stay with the 308. I know you already have all the stuff but thats not to say that you cant size the brass you already have down to a 7mm-08, 260, 260AI, 243, 243AI.....you've got options man!! All those rounds will shoot circles around the 308.....

 

[SScott]

Re: What to do with barrel

With a barrel in that kind of shape I would have some fun with it, and cut it right behind the tight spot with a hack saw.
Get a flap wheel on a 4" grinder to smooth it out, then get a brass screw and lapping compound to re-do the crown. The gouges in the rifling would be my concern.
What's the worse thing that can happen? It might just shoot better.
Keep us informed with pics.
SScott

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: What to do with barrel

Thanks for the advise guys. I checked with Northland and he doesn't have what I want in stock. I checked with Shilen and they have a 25 month wait. I really am in no mood to wait 2 years for a replacement barrel. Can you guys recommend anything else?

I guess I can check with Kreiger, Schneider, Obermeyer, etc...

Any insight you guys can pass along would be much appreciated.

 

[TitaniumBlue]

Re: What to do with barrel

Sharp Shooter Supply and Sin Arms should have some Brux barrels in stock that are ready to install.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: What to do with barrel

How long is the barrel? and is it factory savage?
if the bore dimensions are tight enough, you could have some of the tooling lapped out and cut the barrel down to 20 inches and recrown. That would be cheaper for you. I had an after market barrel for a 308 that had really bad tool marks from e arthur brown for a thompson encore, and Ron at Benchmark was able to get most of them out. It shot great after that.

some of the worst tool marks are usually near the ends of barrels anyway.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: What to do with barrel

Recrown it and see how it shoot.

 

[kengel2]

Re: What to do with barrel

You could check with McGowen barrels also. They make some decent stuff.

 

[Austan]

Re: What to do with barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kengel2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could check with McGowen barrels also. They make some decent stuff.</div></div>

Do you know McGowans current wait time?

+1 for Jim at northland, he may not have a 308 but he has a 243AI right now listed. Just sayin'

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: What to do with barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: a-hull</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How long is the barrel? and is it factory savage?
if the bore dimensions are tight enough, you could have some of the tooling lapped out and cut the barrel down to 20 inches and recrown. </div></div>

It is a 24" factory barrel from Savage. The only thing I have done to it is put on a McMillan A5 and had it skim bedded.

 

[jasonahull]

Re: What to do with barrel

Alot of guys shoot 20 and 18 inchers on here, i would see about lapping and cutting it down to 20 and recrown for sure.
if it works you will still get alot of barrel life.

 

[pjparker]

Re: What to do with barrel

This looks like the perfect candidate for David Tubb's Final Finish bore lapping bullets.

Bullets in a kit with progressively finer compounds coated on them that you load and fire. Some claim remarkable results from factory barrels, I would not use them in a custom barrel at all.
Looks to me that your Savage bbl could only be helped, might also lap out the tight spot near the muzzle.

Check out Superior Shooting Systems, may be some posts here on the Hide.

Paul

 

[desertfox01]

Re: What to do with barrel

I have a 20" savage 308....Had plans on rebarreling it anyways, so I said what the hell. Had a set of fire lapping ammunition in back of a gun cabinet from about 8 or 9 years ago that had never been used. I did make a difference. Quite pleased with it. I'll probably still end up changing it out, but latter then sooner.

 

[Hummerdawg]

Re: What to do with barrel

Lothar Walther usually has Savage barrels in stock

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: What to do with barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pjparker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This looks like the perfect candidate for David Tubb's Final Finish bore lapping bullets. </div></div>

Hey Paul,

I am going to the range tomorrow to try out the Tubb's FF. I want to see and document everything they do. If the Tubb's works as good as advertised and as well as the reviews say it does, I will be happy. If I can get this thing to clean up in less than an hour and hold .5 MOA accuracy for more than 15-20 shots then I will be okay with that for now.

I will let you all know how it goes.

 

[Kyshooter]

Re: What to do with barrel

If you do end up choosing to rebarrel Lothar Walther is a good choice, great barrels, usually in stock and the price is about unbeatable, see for your self.

Link to Savage prefit page...

http://www.lothar-walther.de/339.php

 

[pjparker]

Re: What to do with barrel

T-Money

It will be interesting to see what your results are.

I used the Final Finish process to gain some more useful life from a .260 barrel. After 3100 rounds I had it cut back, rethreadded and rechambered and still didnt get all the rough throat out of it. FF smoothed the throat out enough to justify keeping it a little longer.

Paul

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: What to do with barrel

Have it cut down a bit, recrown and it should be fine for a few more rounds.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: What to do with barrel

First off, hold off before you do anything.

The only real problem with the bore itself is that it coppers up quite a bit. But it shoots good too. My view is, you're demanding too much in the way of a clean bore. Clean with foam, forget the brush entirely. When the patches show very little copper, stop cleaning and put a light, even layer of preservative oil in the bore. That's it. Forget about what the borescope shows. The only really important message is read from the target. Sure, it's not a honed L-W bore, but it works. Unless the borescope reveals a destroyed throat, keep shooting. Resist temptations to do anything more drastic, it's not time yet.

The crown is a different issue. Damage is not good. Ask a reputable smith about recrowning. Shouldn't be prohibitively expensive, and if it's all you do, you're ahead of the game financially.

The sky is not falling, not for awhile yet, anyway...

Greg

 

[armymedic.2]

Re: What to do with barrel

i have to agree with greg, if you would like to do anything to that barrel YOURSELF, now would be the time.

No better time to learn than when it is already crud. worse case scenario you lose some time and a few bucks learning on this barrel instead of a decent one. \

i only need to clean my barrel every 3-400 shots... just sayin'

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: What to do with barrel

Greg's on point, as usual.

Does it shoot? if so deal with the copper by good cleaning.

If not-rebarrel.


I've seen more great shooting barrels that all of a sudden had the shooter loose confidence in them because they took a close look for the first time.
If most guys saw their wive's the way a gynecologist does they'd become priests. Barrels are kind of the same thing, judge by effect, not what they look like under a microscope.

 

[Kyshooter]

Re: What to do with barrel

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If most guys saw their wive's the way a gynecologist does they'd become priests. Barrels are kind of the same thing, judge by effect, not what they look like under a microscope.</div></div>

That is some funny, funny stuff..... and accurate too.

 

[desertfox01]

Re: What to do with barrel

so what ended up happening with the barrel?

 

[SavageSlayer]

Re: What to do with barrel

Sorry for the delay guys.

Here it is:

Before

After...Sorry there is lint left in the barrel...new patches.

The Tubb's Final Finish made a huge difference. The thing cleans up in about 30-45 minutes now vs. 3-4 hours. he bore is smoother both visually and by feel. I took it to the range today to check out an OCW load work up. I shot 23 rounds total and accuracy did not suffer from fouling. It took me about 35 minutes to clean when I got home. I also measured the OAL before and after. Before, to the lands, it was 2.837" and after is 2.843" a lengthening of .006". I don't think that is too bad for doing the full 50 rounds, but what do I know?

Here is my OCW target, and I did the round robin method. All shots were from the bench with Harris bipod and rear bag. All shots were good, no fliers to call. Any help with this would be much appreciated.

 

[tatemarb]

Re: What to do with barrel

If you still want to try a barrel swap, try MidwayUSA (look under Savage 110). They have barrels in stock usually and they are not expensive. I just built a 308 with an ER Shaw barrel kit from them and it shoots just under 1/2 MOA with FGMM 175 grainers so far (I say "just" under but thats because I mess up sometimes and make it shoot 1/2). It cleans very easily and is smooth as butter. $199 for the 24" SS varmint contour barrel with 11 deg. crown, barrel nut wrench, butches' bore paste and a set of go/no go guages. So far I am happy but YMMV.

tater