What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

[Patton63]

I am looking to pick up a Springfield 1903a3 and/or a Lee Enfield. I know the common advice is not to buy one of these rifles without reading a couple excellent books. However, I'm heading to a gun show this weekend and would be willing to pick up the right rifle if I could find it. Can someone help me construct a list of specific things to look for and questions to ask when evaluating one of these rifles? (Note - I searched posts from the last 2 years and didn't find anything that helped).

I appreciate your thoughts and insights into these two rifles and am grateful for your assistance.

- Chris

 

[crowsnest2002]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

Look for Remington Manufacture.. They are the collectors..

 

[1917]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Patton63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Can someone help me construct a list of specific things to look for and questions to ask when evaluating one of these rifles?
- Chris </div></div>

For the 03A3 and any other 30 cal rifle a set of throat and barrel gauges
will give you an idea of the amount of use it has and has to go. The military considered a "3" IIRC gtg for service

gauges

 

[Parallax]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

Information here is based on looking for one in "correct" as issued condition. The most collectable M1903A3 are those manufactured by Smith Corona... not Remington. They bring a small premium because SC made comparatively fewer then Remington. In fact, Remington made 3 times as many.

Most of the gun show M1903A3 you will find are mixmasters. Expect to pay ~$750-$900 for a nice correct Smith Corona 03A3 and $650-$750 for a nice correct Remington. Prices seem to fluctuate lately as collector interest in these is increasing.

Basic things to watch....

1. Smith Corona rifles have Smith Corona barrels and Remington rifles have Remington barrels... steer clear of mixmasters.

2. Most components of a Remington rifle are stamped R while SC rifle components are either not stamped or stamped G

3. SC rifles have SC made stocks and Remington rifles have Remington made stocks. You can tell the mfg easiest by the shape of the routed band retainer cutout towards the muzzle. If it's square it's a Remington.... if round it's Smith Corona. There should be an Ordance Dept mark and inspection stamp FJA on the left side... later Remingtons will also be stamped RA on the left side. There should be a circle P behind the trigger guard on the palm swell. Any other markings besides these on the stock butt or sides means either import or rebuild.

4. Both rifles will be a mix of blued and parkerized parts. If all parkerized generally they are arsenal rebuilds and not as originally made.

5. Remington bolts handles are marked with an R while Smith Corona original bolts are marked with a lightly struck X on the top of the bolt handle.

Like most military weapons, these were made so as to interchange parts easily for field repair. It's not uncommon to see a mix of parts and it doesn't mean a hill of beans if it's put together right and the bolt/bbl is properly headspaced. Only matters to a collector. This is a big subject and simply too long to go into on this forum.... if you want a collectable piece dont buy without research and a good book as a guide. Look at all the pics on this page and it will help in finding the "most correct" first rifle.

If you want a shooter... check throat wear, headspace and muzzle wear and don't worry about the rest.

 

[Patton63]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Parallax</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Information here is based on looking for one in "correct" as issued condition. The most collectable M1903A3 are those manufactured by Smith Corona... not Remington. They bring a small premium because SC made comparatively fewer then Remington. In fact, Remington made 3 times as many.

Most of the gun show M1903A3 you will find are mixmasters. Expect to pay ~$750-$900 for a nice correct Smith Corona 03A3 and $650-$750 for a nice correct Remington. Prices seem to fluctuate lately as collector interest in these is increasing.

Basic things to watch....

1. Smith Corona rifles have Smith Corona barrels and Remington rifles have Remington barrels... steer clear of mixmasters.

2. Most components of a Remington rifle are stamped R while SC rifle components are either not stamped or stamped G

3. SC rifles have SC made stocks and Remington rifles have Remington made stocks. You can tell the mfg easiest by the shape of the routed band retainer cutout towards the muzzle. If it's square it's a Remington.... if round it's Smith Corona. There should be an Ordance Dept mark and inspection stamp FJA on the left side... later Remingtons will also be stamped RA on the left side. There should be a circle P behind the trigger guard on the palm swell. Any other markings besides these on the stock butt or sides means either import or rebuild.

4. Both rifles will be a mix of blued and parkerized parts. If all parkerized generally they are arsenal rebuilds and not as originally made.

5. Remington bolts handles are marked with an R while Smith Corona original bolts are marked with a lightly struck X on the top of the bolt handle.

Like most military weapons, these were made so as to interchange parts easily for field repair. It's not uncommon to see a mix of parts and it doesn't mean a hill of beans if it's put together right and the bolt/bbl is properly headspaced. Only matters to a collector. This is a big subject and simply too long to go into on this forum.... if you want a collectable piece dont buy without research and a good book as a guide. Look at all the pics on this page and it will help in finding the "most correct" first rifle.

If you want a shooter... check throat wear, headspace and muzzle wear and don't worry about the rest.



</div></div>

Thanks a lot.

 

[TonyTRG]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

For sure I'm not over quailified in this department - so the real experts please chime in.

If you're after an Enfield what are you looking for? An SMLE or a No4? Something with history or a rifle in 'as new' condition?

There are No4 s out there that were put into storage virtually straight after manufacture. These have recently been released (ie at least in the last couple of years) for export from the UK MOD . Strangely they cannot be sold direct in the UK. So my own was exported to the US then re imported and reproofed before it was available to buy.

As with the Springfields I would advise getting a rifle with all matching numbers and with no wear evident from guaging. Mine came with matching numbered bayonet and sheath and was post war production (53) . No History but it was cheap and I bought it to shoot, not to look at.

Now if you want an SMLE that's a different story - gonna cost more for a good one- but in some ways better to shoot.....It really is a big subject!

 

[Sniff]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

Many of the WWII manufacture No.4 MkI* Enfields, particularly those made in Canada by Longbranch had only a two groove barrel.

Canadian rifles have an 'L' in the serial numbers.

Many only had flip over battle sights set for 300 or 600 yards.

If you want one for an accurate shooter, keep looking for a five groove barrel and the ladder type rear sights.

The best ones are the No.4 MkIIs that are known as the Irish Contract rifles. Made in the early 1950s and kept in the grease since then.

Enfields are great rifles.

Sniff

 

[Metalhead0483]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you want one for an accurate shooter, keep looking for a five groove barrel and the ladder type rear sights. </div></div>

You know Sniff, I've owned many enfields of different models nationalities over the years and normally I'd agree with you 100%, but I have to say my most recent No4 Mk1 is a pakistani (yeah, I know, I got it for like $75) with a two groove bbl, and the 300/600 battle sight and it's one of the most accurate enfields I've ever owned. I guess even the blind monkeys will sometimes find bananas...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sniff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Enfields are great rifles. </div></div>

Can't argue that point. Fast, reliable, and accurate. What's not to love?

 

[xarmor]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

For the 1903a3, is this going to be a shooter or a collector?

If it is a shooter then I always "buy the bore." Look for the rifles that have been rebuilt after the war, all of their parts are mostly new and they were never really put in service again. These will usually be the "mixmasters" but they shoot great. You will find these to be about $200-$500 cheaper than a collector 03a3.

If it is a collector and occasional shooter you are after then you will want a rifle that is as close to original as possible. This means the bayonet band, stacking swivel, sling swivels, cutoff switch, rear sight bolt, trigger guard and butt plate will all be blued. Only the barrel and receiver will be parkerized. See details here.

1903 details fro Vi shooters page

The finish condition and originality is important. The parkerization will have a greenish tint that is very hard to replicate, if is grey then it is probably refinished.
Check the barrel date vs. the receiver SN to see if it is original to the rifle. All original barrels were made in 1942/43. It is contended that some may have been made in early 44 but most of these that I have seen have been re arsenaled. You can compare SN and BBL dates here.

http://vishooter.home.att.net/RA3.txt

The stock will have an "S" stock with no finger grooves. This means the stock is straight with no pistol grip of any kind. If it has a pistol grip or a half pistol grip "scant" stock then it is a replacement stock. The stock should appeear to be 60+ years old! Look for honest wear, there are a bunch of fakes out there!! On the left side of the stock there will be some cartouches. Look for an FJA and crossed cannons on early rifles and the same plus an RA on mid to late production rifles. The RA was added when Smith Corona started building these. In front of the trigger guard there should be a series of inspection stamps in the wood. Some stocks will have a flaming bomb at the very end under the barrel. There will also be a Circl P on the pistol grip. If there is a 2nd P with no circle then the rifle was proof fired at an arsenal after the war, usually indicates a rebarrel. Look for any of these markings (listed below) on the stock, they indicate the rifle at least passed through an arsenal, doesn't neccesarily mean it was rebuilt.

Arsenal overhaul and inspection stamps:
AA = Augusta Arsenal
AN/ANAD = Anniston Army Depot (Anniston, Alabama) observed with a date stamp following it (MM YY) in 1975 and 1977
BA = Benecia Arsenal
MR = Mt Rainer Ordnance Depot
OG = Ogden Arsenal
RA = Raritan Arsenal
RIA = Rock Island Arsenal
RRA = Red River Arsenal
SA = Springfield Arsenal
SAA = San Antonio Arsenal

On Remingtons all of the small parts will be stamped with an "R."

Sorry this was so long, hope it adds to the info above. You will love these rifles but be prepared to Man up when you pull the trigger on one of these ol girls, they kick like a mule. Average soldier in WW2 was 5'7" and 140 lbs, I am sure a coule ended up on their ass!!!

 

[Patton63]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

No need to apologize for the long post - the information was great. I ended up getting a Smith-Corona, with a barrel date of 11-42. It has the following markings:

Left side of the stock: FJA (in a square); crossed barrels; RIA EB (in a square)

Bottom of stock: P (in a circle right behind the trigger guard); four numbers in a square, triangle, circle, and diamond right in front of the trigger guard.

The bore looks great, and the wood and finish are in nice shape.

I saw a lot of samples and this one just seemed like the "right" one.

Thanks again for all of the information.

- Chris

 

[xarmor]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

Excellent, sounds like that one will be a 6 groove barrel also. Nice score.

 

[masterg]

Re: What to look for - Springfield 1903A3/Lee Enfield

What a great post! Patton63 is looking for help. The Hide members provide some help. Patton63 gets a rifle and provides the members with the specs on his new purchase.
The only problem is the pictures are missing!!

Congrats on the new rifle. I have been contemplating a 1903 purchase recently. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

Tim