What to look for

[09cs]

Hi folks,

I'm going to look at a Mauser one of my dad's friends has for sale. I have no info on it, never had one before either. So what should I look for when looking at a used rifle, besides rust, smooth(ish) action (depending on age I guess) and the bore?

I believe the Mausers wer 8mm Mauser correct? No idea what year it is etc, will post pics when I see it. I think he said its some kind of collector one? Not sure if he means rare because of age etc. or some collector edition model

 

[Badgerord]

All the numbers on all the parts should match.

German issue Mauser's are 8 mm Mauser, BUT Mauser's come in all kinds of calibers.

Look for all the usual and cracked stocks.

Every Mauser is Rare and special and is more unique than Unicorn poop, just ask a Mauser collector, but remember it is the ONLY GUN TO LOOSE 2 WORLD WARS!!!

 

[VJJPunisher]

hate stamps are betterer

 

[09cs]

All the numbers on all the parts should match.

German issue Mauser's are 8 mm Mauser, BUT Mauser's come in all kinds of calibers.

Look for all the usual and cracked stocks.

Every Mauser is Rare and special and is more unique than Unicorn poop, just ask a Mauser collector, but remember it it the ONLY GUN TO LOOSE 2 WORLD WARS!!!

Will check for matching numbers, where will they all be located??

How will I know if it is German or a different one by looking at it?

 

[Diablo]

IMO, stick with 98's, preferably K98 (no 1866 french, no 1891 argentine, no 1895 chilean, no 93's..........).

Suggest avoiding mausers from country of mfg. & issue except for Germany/Deutschland......i.e., Waffenfabrik 98 would be good to find, or the Mauser Werke Berlin Borgsigwalde for a K98.

I've had two Oberndorf mausers (98's) that were very good.

Also had a 22-250 built on a 93, but I would not do that again.

And there was some mauser production at Fabrique Nationale, seems like everything made there over the years has been good quality.

The Brevex actions have been used for many heavy hunting rifles.

Lacking other sources, try doing some research on the NRA museum website (search for mausers, should be a few things there to read about).

 

[VJJPunisher]

Mauser 98K Unofficial Web Site.

 

[Diablo]

VJ --- that is a great link....always better to see the pictures of the proof marks too.

THANK YOU.

 

[09cs]

Mauser 98K Unofficial Web Site.

Thank you for the site!

 

[itwillis]

Post pics and I'll gladly help you out. I buy and sell them with alarming frequency.

 

[n64atlas]

All matching will have the last two numbers of the serial number on all major parts. All markings will be intact. Early WWII rifles will
be code marked as to who made it. There were several manufactures during WWII. Some late war "last ditch" rifles are suspect to shoot.
They were made in concentration camps where the slave labor sabotaged the rifles. A good collectible rifle will not be cheap. A Russian capture
will not cost as much as GI bring back.

 

[Dan M]

To the OP... the term Mauser can refer to any number of Mauser pattern bolt action rifles.

The total number of rifles manufactured is unknown, but the number has to be north of 90 Million. Calibers can run the gamut from common military chamberings- 6.5X55, 7x57, 7.65x53, 8x57 as well as any other commercial chambering you could imagine. Condition can run from new to beat to death. As far as manufacturers go, German, Belgian (FN) or Czech made military rifles were fine arms. Condition is everything.

Some photos would really allow someone to assist you. Matching numbers are a consideration, but be careful as they can be counterfeited (and often can be on really rare models in an attempt to increase their value)... make sure the font is the same for the numbers and the block code. You could go broke just buying the better reference books on the subject.

I personally prefer the Gewehr 98 rifle... they are a pleasure to shoot, and are fairly easy to identify if it is an original or arsenal rebuild (arsenal rebuilds had a number code for the arsenal stamped in the middle of the butt plate (see: Storz's Rifle and Carbine 98)

 

[Toast]

Ask him if he has any ammo!!!!

 

[09cs]

Post pics and I'll gladly help you out. I buy and sell them with alarming frequency.

I will PM pics, looking at it Thursday afternoon! Thank you

All matching will have the last two numbers of the serial number on all major parts. All markings will be intact. Early WWII rifles will
be code marked as to who made it. There were several manufactures during WWII. Some late war "last ditch" rifles are suspect to shoot.
They were made in concentration camps where the slave labor sabotaged the rifles. A good collectible rifle will not be cheap. A Russian capture
will not cost as much as GI bring back.

I believe he is asking 1K for it

Ask him if he has any ammo!!!!

Plan on it! lol

 

[itwillis]

Sounds good... take lots of hood pics.

 

[09cs]

What is a ball park price for mausers say in excellent condition and one in fair?

 

[sandwarrior]

What is a ball park price for mausers say in excellent condition and one in fair?

As noted above, condition and where it's from/who it was for. You will have to see what it is then ask again what it would be worth with pics of it. You can hit a rare gem, a run of the mill good one, or one to completely stay away from.


Looking forward to the pics.

 

[JGaynor]

The Swedish M1896's are some of the best.
Many of the "between the wars" rifles with foreign crests were made in Germany and are of extremely high quality. Aslo many of those were sold surplus without ever being used when countries began rearming to various assault rifles.

 

[Rookie]

Forgive the intrusion for a question but I think its on point, and may even by asked by the OP once he sees the gun. The last post by JGaynor reminded me that one of my Mausers was made in Yugoslavia. The story I've always heard was that WW2 ended before those guns were issued which resulted in mint condition Mausers like the one I have. Whats the concensus here on the quality of those guns? Mine has no dings or rust anywhere and shoot great.

 

[Dan M]

Which Yugo? M24, M24/47, M24/52, M48 or M48a? Or does the receiver rail have MOD 98 on it?

The devil is in the details.

 

[Dan M]

Rookie- To clarify... Yugoslavia was occupied after the April 1941 invasion until the Battle of Poljana in 14-15 May 1945 (last Battle in Europe in WW2). Pre-war M24s were ridden pretty hard, and large scale manufacture of arms by the Yugos didn't happen during the war years. Finding a M24 Yugo with a Royal Crest of the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes or after 1929 the crest of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia is relatively rare in any condition.

It is quite likely that your rifle is in superior condition because it is of post-war manufacture or underwent rebuild in the late 40's through the 50's.

Again, the markings on the rifle should clarify the matter... unless it is one of the sanitized M48BO rifles allegedly manufactured for the Egyptians... they are sans markings except for a serial number.

 

[Rookie]

Thanks for the help Dan M. I purchased it off Gunbroker, not expensive but looks literally new in every way, inside and out. Its numbers matching, has a large M48A on the top of the receiver, just below a crest which is circular with wings, flames in the middle, and what looks like 25X11943 just below the flames. Seller said it appeared to be a M48B even though it was stamped M48A. The floor plate is stamped sheet metal as is the trigger guard, which makes it an M48B, based on my research. Wiki says M48B manufactured 1956-1965.

 

[asbestosglove]

M48 had milled trigger guard and floor plate. M48A was stamped. The crest on the receiver ring is commonly known as the "Tito" crest. Cal was 8mm and the M48's are a little shorter than M98's in action length. All IIRC.

 

[Dan M]

The date on the crest is 29 November 1943, signifying the date of the second meeting of the Anti-Fascist Council of National Liberation of Yugoslavia, the body which determined the post-war organisation of the country, establishing a federal republic.

The M48 has an intermediate length action, the bolt and other action/magazine parts will not interchange with the Karbiner 98. Most of them were put in storage after manufacture.

They were developed in 1948 and were manufactured until the mid 1960s.

 

[Rookie]

Yep, M48 action is shorter than my old M98/22,

 

[09cs]

Looking forward to seeing it tomorrow, where are all the proof markings I should look for and numbers located, I'm guessing receiver and barrel but not sure where else to look.

 

[Dan M]

Brother, that is a loaded question.

Let's say the rifle is a German Karabiner 98K, the information you would be looking for is as follows:

Ordnance Codes K98k Mauser Page

Waffenamt Codes K98k Mauser Page

Manufacturer's Codes for the rifle: K98k Mauser Page

Just about every part should carry the same serial number, except springs...for example, you should be able to pull the bolt down and see the correct serial number on the firing pin. There will be stamped markings on all the parts, see the attached charts for further info.

The data above only applied to the Kar 98k. Other Mausers will have markings in similar locations, for example a Czech VZ 24 will have an "E -Lion stamp- followed by two digits (eg-38)" on the left receiver ring, up forward, indicating the year the rifle was accepted.

You could burn a lot of bandwidth trying to explain every nuance of the Mauser system rifles.

 

[sandwarrior]

A couple notes here. The M48A/B difference is the magazine floorplate and how some of the parts are stamped. They cut down on size on some. On the M48A floorplate is smooth and has some internal machining to the stamped piece. Unlike the M48 which is all machined. You will see a huge difference in a M48B floorplate as it looks at first like it was stamped with a screwdriver. Literally. It has a smaller smooth central piece. But, around that looks like a slotted head screwdriver stamped it down into position. The trigger guard is thinner than the M48A. All three of them have excellent machining on the action and barrels on them.

The BO version can be from the time period of the std M48, or M48A and M48B I have one from an M48A time period and one from the M48B time period. And neither has any markings other than the serial number. These were mostly intended for the Egyptians. But those crafty Egyptians went to the Swedes and bought their Ljungman equipment and built Hakims with it. (6.5x55 Mauser to 7.92mm Mauser). The Egyptians didn't need them anymore so most M48 versions went into cold-cave storage. Some though went to other entities/countries and were used extensively. My M48BO had firecracking half an inch down the barrel.

As Dan M pointed out, just the variations in Yugo Mausers will spin your mind, let alone ALL the variations (and who built them) out there.

 

[Rookie]

Thanks Sandwarrior. While we are waiting on the rifle's specifics from the OP, allow me to ask some questions of the assembled Mauser experts. I have a Czech BRNO factory rifle that I'm trying to gather more info on. It is a M98/22 so it has the 30 inch barrel. Serial number E445, not numbers matching on the bolt which is numbered 2851. The rear sight is graduated to 2000 yards with numbers in Arabic which tells me two things. First, it was exported to Turkey, and second, it was exported prior to 1928 when the Turks switched to western numbers on the sights. The barrel measures .318 diameter. From my research, it seems that in 1905, Germany switched their military rifles from .318 to .323 diameter, went to a lighter bullet, and increased pressure. My question is, did other Mauser manufacturers switch from .318 to .323 at or around the same time Germany did? The reason I ask is because I'm trying to date this rifle. What other date indicators can I look for?

I removed the stock today and the barrel has the same serial number as the receiver so I assume its the original barrel. On the bottom of the barrel is the number 1 in an opening in the rear sight band. Other than the serial number and the 1, there are no other marks on the barrel.

On the bottom of the receiver is a circled Z, the numbers 1 and 9, (but not together as in 19. Spaced apart but appear to be on the same line.), and something that resembles "&" or a circle with ears.

There are no external cartouches or serial numbers on the stock but on the inside are a couple of numbers. Under the receiver, behind the recoil lug is the number 2. In the barrel channel is the number 8, further is 592, further is the number 20 but not stamped into the wood. More like typed in black ink.

Anything you guys can tell me would be great.

 

[Rookie]

Well guys, after my last post I started worrying that the OP may feel that I hijacked his thread so I will start my own. My apologies to 09cs.

 

[09cs]

Very disappointed, this rifle has been heavily sporterized for hunting it seems, no definite proof marks. The guy only knew it was made in Europe. Here are a couple of pics. The only numbers and what looked like markings were on the barrel and side of the receiver, but very hard to see the markings

 

[Rookie]

I'm sure there are some guys here than can comment on those proof marks. I will say one thing, that's an especially nice sporterizing job done on it. Never seen one with a double set trigger. Most seem to involve chopping off the barrel, and whittling down the military stock. What caliber is it? The replacement stock is super nice. Did you buy it?

 

[09cs]

I'm sure there are some guys here than can comment on those proof marks. I will say one thing, that's an especially nice sporterizing job done on it. Never seen one with a double set trigger. Most seem to involve chopping off the barrel, and whittling down the military stock. What caliber is it? The replacement stock is super nice. Did you buy it?

It is a 30-06, the guy said it has been a safe queen and never shot (by him)

He wouldn't let me take it apart or anything, was looking forward to a some what original Mauser, not a sporterized one. I too have never seen the double trigger set up, and the stock was very nice. I did not yet, I'm just the middle man for my father who was interested but out of town at the moment.

 

[09cs]

What would you guys offer/pay for it? He was asking 1K

 

[09cs]

The bolt had a similar finish to this

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/9_3x62_Mauser_042608_1.jpg

 

[Dan M]

Can't give you a value... sporters are outside my main interests.

It does appear that the rifle went through the proof house in Vienna, Austria... the nitro powder proof mark with the V, indicating Vienna. The other proof might be Austrian as well, but the photo really doesn't show up the detail... I believe it looks similar to an Austrian Bundesadler (Federal Eagle).

That rifle deserves to be shot.

 

[09cs]

Can't give you a value... sporters are outside my main interests.

It does appear that the rifle went through the proof house in Vienna, Austria... the nitro powder proof mark with the V, indicating Vienna. The other proof might be Austrian as well, but the photo really doesn't show up the detail... I believe it looks similar to an Austrian Bundesadler (Federal Eagle).

That rifle deserves to be shot.

Sorry that is the best I could get, this place was poorly lit but thank you.

I agree deserves to be shot, I think my dad is going to pass on that, as he was hoping for an original Mauser, unless we can find similar ones priced way lower than what the guy is asking then maybe he'll pick it up.

 

[pmclaine]

Very disappointed, this rifle has been heavily sporterized for hunting it seems, no definite proof marks. The guy only knew it was made in Europe. Here are a couple of pics. The only numbers and what looked like markings were on the barrel and side of the receiver, but very hard to see the markings

View attachment 46399View attachment 46400View attachment 46401View attachment 46402

Yes disappointing. Tell me where it is please.

 

[09cs]

Yes disappointing. Tell me where it is please.

Lol, don't get me wrong, it was a beautiful gun, but we were under the impression that it was an original mauser, not a sporterized one. What would any of you price/suggest this at, is it worth the 1k asking price?

 

[pmclaine]

Lol, don't get me wrong, it was a beautiful gun, but we were under the impression that it was an original mauser, not a sporterized one. What would any of you price/suggest this at, is it worth the 1k asking price?

I'm no Mauser fan/specialist, my opinion is that the Mauser was brought to its ultimate in the 1903. That said after the war many GI's had 98k's built into fine hunting guns by some skilled German smiths. I don't have an eye for the guns but the engraving, double set triggers, wood strikes me as European old school. It is an interesting rifle.

What's it worth? That's for you to determine. If you had your heart set on a mil spec gun it's worth less to you than it may be. To someone that collects hunting rifles.

West caliber is it? If 30-06 that leans toward a GI conversion some.

 

[09cs]

I'm no Mauser fan/specialist, my opinion is that the Mauser was brought to its ultimate in the 1903. That said after the war many GI's had 98k's built into fine hunting guns by some skilled German smiths. I don't have an eye for the guns but the engraving, double set triggers, wood strikes me as European old school. It is an interesting rifle.

What's it worth? That's for you to determine. If you had your heart set on a mil spec gun it's worth less to you than it may be. To someone that collects hunting rifles.

West caliber is it? If 30-06 that leans toward a GI conversion some.

Yes 30-06. The gentlemen said that he believed it was 60's made in Europe. Maybe this is one of those its worth ehat ever someone will pay for it?

 

[VJJPunisher]

I wouldnt give 1K for it, 700 maybe.......

 

[09cs]

I wouldnt give 1K for it, 700 maybe.......

I was thinking 500 maybe..

From what I've been seeing on line, they're around there or cheaper (without engravings)

 

[VJJPunisher]

agree, but that one is really nice, i too have never seen a double set trigger done on one, was just saying for me personally 700 would be my max and would try cheaper

 

[itwillis]

That actually looks like a postwar commercial action to me, FN maybe or even one of the others. Anyways not enough in the pictures to tell but I not going to say its a sportered-mil action. If its an actual commercial from Germany, 7-800 wouldn't be too bad, but they were not made in .30-06 very often so its hard to say.

 

[pmclaine]

Though it probably took a lot more labor than Im willing to pay for $5-600 would be tops for me. There may be history that makes it worth more but it would have to have good provenance.

Id be more attracted to a pieced together Russian return though its a lesser rifle.

 

[sandwarrior]

Very disappointed, this rifle has been heavily sporterized for hunting it seems, no definite proof marks. The guy only knew it was made in Europe. Here are a couple of pics. The only numbers and what looked like markings were on the barrel and side of the receiver, but very hard to see the markings

View attachment 46399View attachment 46400View attachment 46401View attachment 46402

You might want to re-think "disappointed". That is a pretty nice sporterizing job. As to the origin, it really doesn't matter at this point except to know whether it was good quality or not.

Could you get a pic of the left side of the receiver and if possible, take it out of the stock? Thyen take some pics of the bottom of the receiver?

 

[09cs]

You might want to re-think "disappointed". That is a pretty nice sporterizing job. As to the origin, it really doesn't matter at this point except to know whether it was good quality or not.

Could you get a pic of the left side of the receiver and if possible, take it out of the stock? Thyen take some pics of the bottom of the receiver?

Seller wouldn't let me take it out of the stock, and didn't seem happy to me taking pics for some reason

 

[09cs]

Just talked to my dad (who is the one interested) he is going to try offering around 300, because he doesn't know who built it or much information on it, hopefully the buyer says yes so we can get some better pics!

 

[sandwarrior]

If you get that for $300 you'll be getting a bargain I'm sure. If he needs to sell it and has a little time he'd more likely get around $500 for that one. If he had who sporterized it, and he was a guild member, that could go for as high as $2500. Remember, that's based on a "well" known gunsmith. It means a lot in that world.

Added: A lot of my best deals were Mausers that someone sporterized most of the way, and I finished. The ones I sporterized, I put all the money into them and will never get it out. They've all given me a lot of good service. Even if some of them weren't entirely the way I wanted them when I got them back.

 

[09cs]

If you get that for $300 you'll be getting a bargain I'm sure. If he needs to sell it and has a little time he'd more likely get around $500 for that one. If he had who sporterized it, and he was a guild member, that could go for as high as $2500. Remember, that's based on a "well" known gunsmith. It means a lot in that world.

Added: A lot of my best deals were Mausers that someone sporterized most of the way, and I finished. The ones I sporterized, I put all the money into them and will never get it out. They've all given me a lot of good service. Even if some of them weren't entirely the way I wanted them when I got them back.

Yeah I thought that a lot of the price dependeed on who built it. He had no idea who built it so gonna just make an offer