what would it cost to get you to drop test ur kit?

[W54/XM-388]

Considering how picky folks are in the PX about wanting all the used stuff they buy, to look brand spanking new and wanting huge discounts for any marks or scratches, what would be the point of devaluing your gear just to make some unknown keyboard warriors on the internet happy?

 

[W54/XM-388]

That being said, I have some experience with dropping stuff.
When I first got my AI AW and the S&B 5-25 scope to go on it, I was at a range with concrete benches and concrete shooting areas. During one of the cease fires there was a pretty big gust of wind which was just enough to push one leg of the bipod off the edge of the bench and the whole rifle went over and onto the concrete below.

I was annoyed because the scope got a nice long cosmetic scratch on the outside of the objective tube from the concrete table it bounced around against on the way down, which means I'll never be able to sell it for anything close to what it would be worth.

I picked it back up and the next rounds went exactly where they were supposed to. I didn't re-zero and haven't re zeroed that rifle in 10 years.

It's not something I'd ever do willingly, as that devalued my scope at least $500 or so.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

There's a sweet spot on torque. When I was into mountain bikes in my younger years you wanted things (your brake levers, shifters, etc) snugged good but not gorilla tight.

The wisdom being if you wrecked out they would move rather than snap. Then you could loosen them up, move em back, tighten down again.

Had something similar happen recently. Was digging around in the safe. Leaned the match rifle (~24lbs) against my bench while digging. Have a puppy in the house, heard her whining upstairs at the front door.

Went running up to let her out. Heard a loud babboom crash when I got up there and was like "fuckkkkk that was my rifle"

Went back down and sure as shit it had tipped over and went down. Picked it up, took a peek, reticle canted. So now I'm like well shit... did I just bork a $3k scope or did it just move in the rings?

Re-leveled it, and it's fine...it hit and twisted in the rings. Much better than bending, breaking, etc. 21inlbs on the cap screws.

Little luck doesn't hurt either. Would I drop it from shoulder height on purpose? Fuck that. Abuse your own shit I paid good money for mine.

Maybe it would break maybe not, I don't plan to find out. I've seen a lot of the scope testing manufacturers do and the scope should be able to take the fall just fine.

The problem is when 15-20+ lbs of rifle comes down on top of it, that's asking for more than any scope is designed to handle.

I've purchased dirt bike clutch levers w/ bushings built in to the clamp for this exact reason. The bushing allows for very tight fit but will move effortlessly once it hits that point of force. You'd be able to muscle them back into your preferred location after they moved.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Did you find some stocks took the impact better than others? I think aluminum would hold up better than carbon or fiberglass, but I've been wrong before...

For fuck sake man..
Now that ding dong on Rokslide is gonna start a stock dropping movement

This appears to be the Formid drop test over at Rokslide, where they slam on guys for not abusing their kit. His drop test on a TT315 raised some eyebrows.

Ha ha
I've got this picture in my head of all these clumsy fat boys stumbling around in the woods dropping their shit all day

 

[Thorbeast]

My drop was an accidental one. However, I'd rather find a weak point at home as opposed to finding out on the weekend after I've found a babysitter for the kids.

For the amount of money spent on rifles and scopes, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to function after a drop (accidental or intentional).

I sure hope these custom rifles hold up better than a stock Remington 700 or savage.

If this doesn't interest you, it's easy to stay out of the thread.

 

[Nik H]

i'd like to propose a drop test challenge.

5 shot 100 yard zero, picture of you dropping scope from waist height.. then reconfirming zero with 5shots.

1 entry for every submittal with pics.. 2 for a video. pretty ez to scam this but it what it is. my 5 year old will put your screen names in a bowl and pick one out.

if i donate a 50$ gift certificate to a snipershide vendor would you to participate??

 

[cas6969]

Man I keep screwing this test up. Dropped a brand new Trijicon Tenmile yesterday, but it wasn't mounted on anything. So in that respect, it still shoots as well as it did before I dropped it.

 

[Jefe's Dope]

You're asking guys who brag about their brass never touching dirt.

 

[hlee]

Drop tests are stupid. Internet bets are stupid. This thread is full retard.

 

[Dobermann]

This appears to be the Formid drop test over at Rokslide, where they slam on guys for not abusing their kit.

Ah ... not sure I've seen any "slamming on guys for not abusing their kit".

People drop-testing gear, with a repeatable test, and dispassionate documenting of the outcome? Yes.

Encouraging people to test their own gear to explicitly know that it works? Sure.

Abuse? That's in the eye of the beholder. The test is onto a padded mat. The height of the drops is not unlike spills and falls you'd see in the kind of hunting many on the 'Slide do - backcountry backpack hunting, often in rough terrain and/or at high elevation.

Some scopes repeatedly pass - whether across different units of the same make and model, or the same scope dropped multiple times. Other scopes have failed.

Nothing more, nothing less to see here.

 

[Rob01]

Hey maybe we should start hitting ourselves in the head with a hammer to see what kind of abuse our bodies can take. Start with a smaller one and work up. You know a repeatable test, and dispassionate documenting of the outcome. Never know when a limb will fall on you on a hunt. LOL

 

[hlee]

Hey maybe we should start hitting ourselves in the head with a hammer to see what kind of abuse our bodies can take. Start with a smaller one and work up. You know a repeatable test, and dispassionate documenting of the outcome. Never know when a limb will fall on you on a hunt. LOL

Yeah, you never know when you will get into a fight. You gotta punch yourself in the face until you black out, so you know how many punches you can take. And then, have a buddy kick you in the ribs until you are choking on blood. You gotta know how long you can survive an attack while unconscious- just in case.

 

[SRPowah]

My drop was an accidental one. However, I'd rather find a weak point at home as opposed to finding out on the weekend after I've found a babysitter for the kids.

For the amount of money spent on rifles and scopes, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect it to function after a drop (accidental or intentional).

No, it is unreasonable. Why? Because anyone that actually uses their gear knows that EVERYTHING can and will break under the right circumstances. NF, ZCO, TT, S&B, Burris, Bushnell, Steiner, and even the mighty Quigley Ford. Unless you are going to test every possible impact angle on every component, and then use that exact tested and proven optic, this stuff is just dumb. If someone finds that sweet spot when they wipe out on their hunt, they will just run back here complaining saying "IT PASSED YOUR TEST SO WHY DID MINE LOSE ZERO!?! REEEEEEE!"

I cart wheeled a rifle off a quad at 10mph, and it didn't lose zero. I had a rifle fall out of a pickup onto concrete and not lose zero. Does that mean I would trust my kit to pass a drop test and retain zero? Absolutely not, unless you and OP want to cover the cost of the gear brand new up front in the event it hits that sweet spot.

 

[Dobermann]

Hey maybe we should start hitting ourselves in the head with a hammer to see what kind of abuse our bodies can take. Start with a smaller one and work up. You know a repeatable test, and dispassionate documenting of the outcome. Never know when a limb will fall on you on a hunt. LOL

C'mon Rob, you know that's a false equivalence, for multiple reasons.

I've never seen anyone hit their head seriously on a backpack hunt, or have a limb fall on them. Even if it did happen, that's a straight-up accident, and not something one would expect.

However, backpack hunters do test their bodies to do what they need to on extreme hunts - they train to do what is reasonable to be expected in that situation - such as gaining and losing elevation, long-distance endurance, agility over scree and boulders, ability to handle cold, and so on. Put most people (including people from other hunting and shooting disciplines) through that training, and they'd possibly call it abuse. But it's not to the people who are choosing to do it - it's just getting fit for the task.

Similarly, it's not uncommon for rifles to fall in this context, So this testing is just to see if the scopes "fit" for purpose too - no-one's saying to do something unexpected or unreasonable (like pounding nails like in an NF ad); they're just quietly testing their own gear to see how it would fare if it took a spill - again, not uncommon in mountain hunts.

If others don't need to, or want to, test their scopes, no problem.

 

[hlee]

C'mon Rob, you know that's a false equivalence, for multiple reasons.

I've never seen anyone hit their head seriously on a backpack hunt, or have a limb fall on them. Even if it did happen, that's a straight-up accident, and not something one would expect.

However, backpack hunters do test their bodies to do what they need to on extreme hunts - they train to do what is reasonable to be expected in that situation - such as gaining and losing elevation, long-distance endurance, agility over scree and boulders, ability to handle cold, and so on. Put most people (including people from other hunting and shooting disciplines) through that training, and they'd possibly call it abuse. But it's not to the people who are choosing to do it - it's just getting fit for the task.

Similarly, it's not uncommon for rifles to fall in this context, So this testing is just to see if the scopes "fit" for purpose too - no-one's saying to do something unexpected or unreasonable (like pounding nails like in an NF ad); they're just quietly testing their own gear to see how it would fare if it took a spill - again, not uncommon in mountain hunts.

If others don't need to, or want to, test their scopes, no problem.

They should train to hold onto their rifles, and not fall down.

And, as a backpack hunter, I have never intentionally dropped my rifle. I have had one fall out of a pickup -not on a back pack hunt. The fall scratched up the wooden stock pretty good. I can't say if the optic held zero as I did not have a chance to shoot on that trip.

Here is what I DO know. If I don't drop my rifle, the optic will hold zero. If I do drop my rifle, the optic might hold zero.

It is kind of like; if I don't touch the stove burner, I won't get burned by it. If I do touch the stove burner, I might get burned by it. Only a child needs to perform that test to understand the results. An adult would understand that the results don't tell you anything, because the critical component (was the stove burner lit?) is not controlled in the test proposed above.

Likewise, if you drop your rifle and it holds zero, all you know is that it held zero. It tells you nothing about whether it will hold zero again, because you cannot control for how the rifle is dropped- especially in a dynamic scenario.

 

[Thorbeast]

No, it is unreasonable. Why? Because anyone that actually uses their gear knows that EVERYTHING can and will break under the right circumstances. NF, ZCO, TT, S&B, Burris, Bushnell, Steiner, and even the mighty Quigley Ford. Unless you are going to test every possible impact angle on every component, and then use that exact tested and proven optic, this stuff is just dumb. If someone finds that sweet spot when they wipe out on their hunt, they will just run back here complaining saying "IT PASSED YOUR TEST SO WHY DID MINE LOSE ZERO!?! REEEEEEE!"

I cart wheeled a rifle off a quad at 10mph, and it didn't lose zero. I had a rifle fall out of a pickup onto concrete and not lose zero. Does that mean I would trust my kit to pass a drop test and retain zero? Absolutely not, unless you and OP want to cover the cost of the gear brand new up front in the event it hits that sweet spot.

I haven't asked any one to drop test anything on my behalf, not sure where you've come up with the idea that I did ask that and I should be reimbursing people for damage as a result... that's quite a leap you've made. All I've posted is my experience when my rifle accidentally fell from a height of about about 3 feet. Then I asked if some materials hold up to impacts better than others. That might not be important to you, but it is to me. I don't think there is a stock/chassis on earth that couldn't be broken, that's not the point. I'm asking if there is a material difference in relative strength/durability between products. It's possible that a MPA or MDT or AI chassis would have handled the impact differently than my manners stock when it fell. I'd like to learn more so I can include that information in my next buying decision. I have an early model TL3 (serial 11XX), sounds like the early TL3s were prone to bolt handle breakage, Big Horn/Zermatt addressed the problem via a revised bolt design and they are replacing my bolt with a current production bolt. That's what this is about, improved consumer products via feedback. Is anyone still shooting push feed, plunger ejector savages with gen 1 PSTs? Thankfully we have (mostly) moved on.

I think the concept of stress testing is valuable, virtually everything we use is stress tested. Doesn't have to be a drop test. Maybe a drop test is stupid... but that doesn't mean that stress testing is stupid. Refine the testing parameters. Figure out what works better than the status quo and implement it (the TL3 bolt design referenced above is a great example). I'm not making the argument that nothing can break. I'm also not making the assertion that just because one sample passes a stress test, the testing implies that ALL samples will behave the same way. All consumer products are a roll of the dice, nothing wrong with trying to stack the odds in your favor.

Sounds like we have different expectations regarding gear (and that's okay - maybe we occupy different markets), I expect rifles to hold zero and function after being dropped a couple of feet.

Lots of straw men being knocked down.

For what it's worth, I also wouldn't drop my scope (or rifle) intentionally for a chance at $50, but that also doesn't mean that I think stress testing gear is stupid.

 

[Buckhead]

I drop test my kit all the time. Not on purpose, but it happens.
Dropped my rifle near the top of the stairs about a month ago.
It bounced off the stairs and then crashed onto the concrete floor of the basement. Bent the objective bell of the scope.
Back to the range the next day. Nothing moved a hair.

 

[Rob01]

C'mon Rob, you know that's a false equivalence, for multiple reasons.

I've never seen anyone hit their head seriously on a backpack hunt, or have a limb fall on them. Even if it did happen, that's a straight-up accident, and not something one would expect.

However, backpack hunters do test their bodies to do what they need to on extreme hunts - they train to do what is reasonable to be expected in that situation - such as gaining and losing elevation, long-distance endurance, agility over scree and boulders, ability to handle cold, and so on. Put most people (including people from other hunting and shooting disciplines) through that training, and they'd possibly call it abuse. But it's not to the people who are choosing to do it - it's just getting fit for the task.

Similarly, it's not uncommon for rifles to fall in this context, So this testing is just to see if the scopes "fit" for purpose too - no-one's saying to do something unexpected or unreasonable (like pounding nails like in an NF ad); they're just quietly testing their own gear to see how it would fare if it took a spill - again, not uncommon in mountain hunts.

If others don't need to, or want to, test their scopes, no problem.

Now who is making false equivalences with comparing physical conditioning where the body is broken down to grow stronger with purposely damaging your own gear. LOL Maybe those backpack hunters should take a little more time to learn to not drop their gear? They sound like a pretty clumsy group.

I wonder if they run their trucks into trees in case they slide off the road on the way to their hunt to see how the truck handles it? Hey got to be ready for anything right? LOL

Sorry but some might not think purposely damaging your gear is stupid but I think it's moronic. Have fun doing it though if it floats your boat. Your money.

 

[SRPowah]

Sounds like we have different expectations regarding gear (and that's okay - maybe we occupy different markets), I expect rifles to hold zero and function after being dropped a couple of feet.

That is where we differ: I expect my rifle to hold zero and function after being dropped a couple feet, but I also have the experience to know that equipment that should pass whatever test every single time can fail, and will fail some day. My rifles bounce around in trucks, tractors, and quads. They take spills and wear their scratches proud. I expect them to function after that daily abuse, but I still check my zero if the spill involved the scope because the reality is nothing is indestructible or perfect.

If you want to limit your failures, buy quality gear and attempt to take care of it. When you buy quality, the manufactures will take care of the lemons. If you buy the toughest gear you possibly can, a spill hitting the right spot can still ruin your plans with the babysitter. That is why I think you are being unreasonable, which is what you originally asked and what I responded to. Stress test are good. But stress test =/= guaranteed failure free weekend.

 

[Simonsza1]

I’m just shocked this thread is still going

 

[TheGerman]

We have reached peak diabolical thread.

 

[Tokay444]

Haven't read the whole thread. Probably won't.
Does the scope need to be on the rifle for the drop?
What type of ground do we need to drop on?

 

[gopherslayer]

Haven't read the whole thread. Probably won't.
Does the scope need to be on the rifle for the drop?
What type of ground do we need to drop on?

If you do it like Form at Rokslide you’ll drop it from waist height onto a shooting mat in the snow with the scope mounted to the rifle.

These other guys that have responded must think you’re throwing it down on concrete and over boulder fields because they’re talking about scratches, gouges, abuse, broken stocks and resale value.

None of this mattters in SHTF scenario anyway. You’ll have your $10,000 setup and get clapped by an Antifag with a Monstrum scope from Amazon and a Savage Axis and he‘ll teabag you while saying “JuSt As GoOd” as you fade away.

 

[Tokay444]

I mean, I’d probably be pissed of dropping my rig from waist high in the snow shifted my zero.

 

[gopherslayer]

I mean, I’d probably be pissed of dropping my rig from waist high in the snow shifted my zero.

That is what’s happened and has panties in a wad.

 

[Tokay444]

Now I have to read this fucking thread.
God fuck.

 

[gopherslayer]

There’s a different thread complaining about it.

 

[gopherslayer]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/vortex-lht-4-5-22-durability-test.7105709/

 

[SB545]

Is anyone still shooting push feed, plunger ejector savages with gen 1 PSTs? Thankfully we have (mostly) moved on.

I still have a couple gen 1's mounted up. haven't heard of any issues there. is the brass wrecking the scope?

 

[Dobermann]

Now I have to read this fucking thread.
God fuck.

You don't have to read this thread; the original premise is silly, and the noise-to-signal ratio is high.

The threads in question are all here on the 'Slide: https://www.rokslide.com/forums/forums/rifle-scope-field-evaluations.133/

 

[supercorndogs]

Fuck yea for 50 bucks i will power bomb my rifle off the top ropes. Throw another 75 on there and i will drive my car in the ditch......

 

[Rob01]

Fuck yea for 50 bucks i will power bomb my rifle off the top ropes. Throw another 75 on there and i will drive my car in the ditch......

Actually only a chance to win $50 with your name picked from a bowl with names of other idiots. LOL

 

[hlee]

Fuck yea for 50 bucks i will power bomb my rifle off the top ropes. Throw another 75 on there and i will drive my car in the ditch......

Shoots a savage. Drives a Hyundai...

 

[RobbinsHGray]

Shoots a savage. Drives a Hyundai...

Shoots a range loaner drives a rental car