What would you build/buy?

[Mauser06]

I have a growing desire for a intermediate type range gas gun.

Something to gap my carbine and bolt gun.


Low-mid magnification glass. 100yds out to 1k. I'm OK if 1k is a little struggle.

Fast shooting light recoiling. Accurate and precise but able to lay down some rounds.

Mostly for fun ringing steel. But as always, they could serve a real purpose.


Cartridge/gas length/buffer system/barrel length/muzzle brake are the questions...I'm not looking to clone or start a pissin match between brands of this and that.


Something I keep thinking I need to have. Figured I better do homework before I burn myself with a stupid impulse buy. I want something pretty specific.

 

[nn8734]

Without telling us a budget, I always assume those that start these type of threads are not poors so SR25 APC or ECC should fit your needs. Alternatively LMT MWS (MLOK) would give you quick change barrel capability to go between 308 and 6.5 CMoor.

If it were me, I’d pick one of those two.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I've built an imaginary rifle in my head for exactly the same purpose. It always ends up being a 6mm Grendel variant, which I'm already set up for, 6mm ARC if I was starting from scratch.
17" rifle gas barrel, 7.5 twist, straight .750 contour or just a little lighter. Heavy buffer/spring, probably a APA gen 3 little bastard for the cherry on top.
It'd be a good platform to try out the Timney DH3 trigger.
A scope in the 3-18x or 4-20x range.

This would slot in nicely between my 22" 6mm Grendel that weighs 16lbs and the 12.8" 6.5 Grendel pistol I'll finally finish soon.

 

[Mauser06]

Thanx! I don't have a budget in mind...not a poor. Not a rich.



Guess I should specified...was thinking of the ar15 platform...224V, 6 arc something like that.

 

[theLBC]

scar 20s.
sub moa with a chf cl barrel that should be able to handle mag dumps a bit better than some similar options.
light recoil, easy to keep on target with a clean running piston system.

if you wanted an AR pattern DI rifle, probably the JP LRP-07.

 

[charnicus]

I too would steer your towards the large frame side of the fence. KAC, LMT, Seekins. This is my mind is between the carbine and the bolt. I also think you’re less likely to run into some speed bump as the .308 and 6.5 gassers are pretty well figured out by now.

 

[Mauser06]

Thanx guys!


Good thing I posted...I was figuring a 224v/6 arc/Grendel flavor gasser would fit the bill.

But it's easy to completely overlook other potentially better options because the AR15 platform is so popular.


Guess I maybe need to really decide on what I want from the rig...and if weight/size is more important or if distance/shootability is more important.

 

[bigjake83]

I'll echo what @TonyTheTiger said.

Honestly a 20" 6.5 Grendel will do all you need, quality ammo when available is usually under $20/box during normal times, there are surplus options from PPU and others for plinking.

Reloading is stupid easy, XBR, RamShot Tac, R15 and several others all work well in the Grendel, also due to the smaller case capacity you're usually getting anywhere from 240-250 loads per pound of powder.

I'd recommend getting a Quality SS Barrel in a 1-8 twist, it will shoot the 123SMK or 123 ELD's very well. Best Barrel for the money is a 20" Proof Research SS Barrel, also barrel life is very impressive 5,000rds easy before accuracy starts to drop off just as long as you take care of the barrel and don't treat it like a bullet hose.

Since you're clearly new to this is the only reason I DON'T recommend the 6MM ARC is because it's a new rifle cartridge and can be a bit more finicky. Compared to the Grendel that has endless online data to help with build/buy options more store bought ammo choices and greater parts availability.

 

[bigjake83]

I forget to mention Compass Lake is now Spinning up Grendel Barrels, and Proof Research SS are probably pretty scarce at the moment so I'd recommend giving Compass lake a call for the barrel they make them in Douglas $380 or with Bartlein or Krieger $500-ish.

 

[theLBC]

just me, but if i already had a tack driver for long range and carbine for short range, i'd want something that can rain fire down on targets with cheap m80 ball that costs <$0.50 a round. maybe that just because i am a poor.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Guess I should specified...was thinking of the ar15 platform...224V, 6 arc something like that.

Definitely nail down platform size before going any further. In my mind, large frame always wins any pure ballistics argument, small frame wins if you prioritize weight, size, shootability, barrel life and easy parts compatibility.
Be honest with yourself too about max range expectations. Every time I think I need a 6/6.5CM because I "can occasionally" shoot out to 1200 yards, I remember that 99% of my shots taken are inside of 600yds and dropping critters isn't a consideration for me, which always leads me back to small frames.

 

[Mauser06]

I'll echo what @TonyTheTiger said.

Honestly a 20" 6.5 Grendel will do all you need, quality ammo when available is usually under $20/box during normal times, there are surplus options from PPU and others for plinking.

Reloading is stupid easy, XBR, RamShot Tac, R15 and several others all work well in the Grendel, also due to the smaller case capacity you're usually getting anywhere from 240-250 loads per pound of powder.

I'd recommend getting a Quality SS Barrel in a 1-8 twist, it will shoot the 123SMK or 123 ELD's very well. Best Barrel for the money is a 20" Proof Research SS Barrel, also barrel life is very impressive 5,000rds easy before accuracy starts to drop off just as long as you take care of the barrel and don't treat it like a bullet hose.

Since you're clearly new to this is the only reason I DON'T recommend the 6MM ARC is because it's a new rifle cartridge and can be a bit more finicky. Compared to the Grendel that has endless online data to help with build/buy options more store bought ammo choices and greater parts availability.

I'm not new to shooting or handloading...so not really afraid of the arc. Just waiting till components ease up and more guys really get to see if it's legit or a flop.

Only caveat would be I don't have any desire to mess with fire forming or anything for it.


Not opposed to any of these recommendations though. Really hadn't considered a 308 gasser. Good rounds can be had at decent price like said. (During normal times)...handloading is easy.

Like I said, I think I just need to prioritize....in my head I had an ar15 platform in mind.


Maybe I need both...lol

 

[theLBC]

I'm not new to shooting or handloading...so not really afraid of the arc. Just waiting till components ease up and more guys really get to see if it's legit or a flop.

Only caveat would be I don't have any desire to mess with fire forming or anything for it.


Not opposed to any of these recommendations though. Really hadn't considered a 308 gasser. Good rounds can be had at decent price like said. (During normal times)...handloading is easy.

Like I said, I think I just need to prioritize....in my head I had an ar15 platform in mind.


Maybe I need both...lol

both is always the right answer.
if you got zombies at 600 yards, what are you gonna want?

 

[HogsLife]

For small frames I’m partial to Mk12’s in 223 wyldes 1:7’s. Mod H with the 16” barrel and Mod 1 in an 18”.

Large frame I dig the LMT MWS. KAC is too rich for my blood and with LMT monolithic upper, quick change Rock barrels I don’t see the justification in price difference in regards to performance.

 

[Odysseus1911]

To fill the gap between carbine and bolt gun, 100-1000 yds, a large frame AR is just so. . . extra. Extra weight, extra size, extra expense, when a small frame AR with the right chambering will get you there.

My choice for this purpose would be:
JP Enterprises SCI-20 side charging receiver set,
Proof carbon fiber 6 ARC, 16",
Leupold Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44

 

[HogsLife]

Mk12 Mod 1 18” Douglas Barrel on top

Mk 12 Mod H 16” Douglas 2nd from Bottom

 

[HogsLife]

I'm not new to shooting or handloading...so not really afraid of the arc. Just waiting till components ease up and more guys really get to see if it's legit or a flop.

Only caveat would be I don't have any desire to mess with fire forming or anything for it.


Not opposed to any of these recommendations though. Really hadn't considered a 308 gasser. Good rounds can be had at decent price like said. (During normal times)...handloading is easy.

Like I said, I think I just need to prioritize....in my head I had an ar15 platform in mind.


Maybe I need both...lol

Do an LMT MWS in a 6.5CM 16-18” barrel

 

[LRRPF52]

Low-mid magnification glass. 100yds out to 1k. I'm OK if 1k is a little struggle.

Fast shooting light recoiling. Accurate and precise but able to lay down some rounds.

Mostly for fun ringing steel. But as always, they could serve a real purpose.


Cartridge/gas length/buffer system/barrel length/muzzle brake are the questions...I'm not looking to clone or start a pissin match between brands of this and that.

For NW Penn in all the thick woods, hills, and relatively tight terrain, I would immediately lean to the AR-15 frame and LPVO or 2-10 compact, 2-12 max.

Fast-shooting/light recoiling rules out the AR-10 large frames for the most part.

Fun ringing steel/practical application = AR-15 in something that will reach and has more projectile mass for medium game as well.

Cartridge recommendations-

# 1: 6.5 Grendel
#2: 6mm ARC or 6mm AR (For the current market, I would recommend being a hand-loader.)

Barrel length: I wouldn’t go over 18” as it will be easier to carry in the woods, but if you’re really tall, you could do 20” or longer depending on what you and family are comfortable with.

For an 18”, Intermediate Length Gas is good for Grendel.

For 16”, MLGS, but it will struggle out at 1000yds at/close to sea level.


RET type/buffer combo:
Rifle RET, Rifle buffer or JP SCS
A5 RET (“buffer tube”) with one of the A5 buffers
Carbine RET with anywhere from carbine to H2 buffer

Muzzle brake would be ok for range work/steel, but is gonna suck for hunting unless you wear muffs while hunting.

Do you have access to any 1000yd ranges out there or farm property where you can put steel out that far?

 

[cokb]

I have an inexpensive PSA 224V that i am actually quite happy with for plinking. 1000 yards and more is very doable. Little to no recoil. Ammo is still very similarly priced than before the shortage. I'm guessing because there isn't much demand for it.
That being said I am considering a Seekins SP10 in the 6.5 Creedmoor flavor. Not because I am unhappy with my 224, but every once in a while i just feel like I want more knockdown power. Call it impact envy?

 

[drewthebrave]

I went through a similar decision several years back and settled on a fluted Alexander Arms 18" 6.5 Grendel barrel. It's a midlength gas system and it runs great, but I would have liked a rifle-length system if it was available. It has a standard carbine receiver extension & buffer, and it is 100% reliable with all ammo. Paired with an SWFA 3-15x scope & piggybacked Holosun red dot, it's a versatile & capable rig (~9lbs) that makes ringing steel at 600 yards boringly easy, even with unpredictable wind. I'm looking forward to stretching it to ~900 yards when I get a chance.

For what it's worth, if I was building this again today I would definitely consider the 6mm ARC as well.

 

[Eric_F]

I went through a similar decision several years back and settled on a fluted Alexander Arms 18" 6.5 Grendel barrel. It's a midlength gas system and it runs great, but I would have liked a rifle-length system if it was available. It has a standard carbine receiver extension & buffer, and it is 100% reliable with all ammo. Paired with an SWFA 3-15x scope & piggybacked Holosun red dot, it's a versatile & capable rig (~9lbs) that makes ringing steel at 600 yards boringly easy, even with unpredictable wind. I'm looking forward to stretching it to ~900 yards when I get a chance.

I've got largely the same setup for my deer hunting / long range plinking rifle. 18" AA fluted 6.5G barrel, 2-10x Weaver Tactical. Weighs a bit over 9 lb, and maybe 1.5 MOA out to 600 with American Gunner. Not super happy with the accuracy but it's fun and my 129 ABLR loads have been great in deer.

I'd go with something like that, but 3-15 if you're in more open country and 6mm ARC if you're not worried about hunting or factory ammo.

 

[Ledzep]

18" 6mm ARC or a 20" Compass Lake Engineering .223. Might really struggle past 700-800 if there's wind with the .223.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

M1a (M14) SOCOM

 

[Greedmoor]

I've built an imaginary rifle in my head for exactly the same purpose. It always ends up being a 6mm Grendel variant, which I'm already set up for, 6mm ARC if I was starting from scratch.
17" rifle gas barrel, 7.5 twist, straight .750 contour or just a little lighter. Heavy buffer/spring, probably a APA gen 3 little bastard for the cherry on top.
It'd be a good platform to try out the Timney DH3 trigger.
A scope in the 3-18x or 4-20x range.

This would slot in nicely between my 22" 6mm Grendel that weighs 16lbs and the 12.8" 6.5 Grendel pistol I'll finally finish soon.

Slot nicely or be 90% identical to the 22"?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Slot nicely or be 90% identical to the 22"?

I don't know, at least 6lbs lighter, 6" shorter, 2/3rds the max magnification. How about 75% identical?

 

[DangerRanger]

I did this buy just doing an aero m5 reciever set and had compass lake cut a nice barrel. I’m very happy with it so far. 24” 6.5 creed, +2 gas, adjustable block. It’s heavy and recoils like a kitten. Very pleasant to shoot. Makes me giggle tossing rounds at steel that fast with such little recoil

 

[Highbrass]

I have been Jones'n for a 224 Val...
Relatively inexpensive plinking and I have actually seen boxes on the shelf @ Academy. ( I purchased a few in anticipation ..Not Hoarding)
Haven't seen much as far as components for a build...I do however have a short action Savage 111 in .223 that I could convert. I think Northland has barrels in stock.. I can always do a gas gun later....

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I don't need to build anything, I already have; seven of them.

Four are .223/5.56, two are 6.5 Grendel, one is a .308. Of the seven, five are bag riders, which I consider most appropriate for bench use.

Two are Stag 24" Bull Barrel .5.56 rifles with A2 stocks, and EGW Bag riders. The Hogue rubber coated forends have broad vinyl tale applied to their bottoms.

The M4gery uses a PSA AR15 Lower, and an AR Stoner 16" Upper with a 15" handguard, and collapsible stock. Clearly, it rides no bag.

Two 6.5 Grendels use PSA AR15 Lowers, and AR Stoner Heavy Uppers with 20" and 24" Bull Barrels and Choate E3 bag rider stocks.

The .308 is the same configuration with a heavy 20" Barrel.

All of the non-Stag rifles use PSA Nickel-Boron Two-Stage triggers, and extended bolt releases. All grips have been replaced by Luth-AR Chubby Grips. The identical controls/ergonomics is an advantage, I think. My bench rifles use ten round magazines.

All of the rifles mount Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC scopes with the caliber appropriate reticles. The Grendels use 308 reticles, which are within 2-3" of each other out to 500yd, which is about as far as the Grendels will probably be used in their lifetimes. A similar scope, with a 6.5CM reticle rides my 28" 260 Rem Custom, built on Savage 10FP action back in 2001. These scopes have maximum distance markings on them that are significantly shorter than the rifles' effective ranges. They all require the use of an LRF in unison, and the distance cutoff ensures that the rifles are given a better chance of attaining a hit. For shots beyond cutoff, I have other chamberings ready which are fully adequate as far out as 850yd.

There's also a 20" Mossberg MVP Predator .223 which shares magazines with the AR's, and has another of the Bushnell BDC scopes mounted.

To ensure smooth shooting with the .308, A JP 308 Silent Captured Spring Buffer setup is installed.

There are a pair of 16" 5.56 Uppers standing by for use in replacing the Grendel uppers should any such need arise. One is a 16" CMMG Bull WASP, and the other is a 16" homebuilt using a Stag 3-gun Competition Barrel.

 

[Lurp06x]

MK12 spr type rifle in 556 or Lmt mws in 308.

stick with rounds that are always available.

I would lean more towards the 308. AR.
30 cal is just more satisfying in my mind.

 

[MarkLeupold]

It sounds quite a bit like what I'm currently trying to do with my first build.

15.1" CLE Recon barrel, 223 Wylde, 1-7.7" twist, mid gas, A2 birdcage flash hider. Will start with a carbine H2 buffer, possibly an A5 in the future. It's going to get a 3-15x T5xi to start because that's what I've currently got laying around. It'll probably be overkill, but it'll all work.

In my mind, this is a pretty bone-stock AR-15 with a good barrel in it. I want it to do whatever I ask it to, but it's not gonna be the best at any of it.

 

[sheepdog697]

6mm arc might be a good fit, if it’s for ringing steel.

 

[hypno02]

16” 7.62 lmt Mws and be done with it. 800-1000yd capability with 175’s. The ability to shoot wolf or xm80 in a battle rifle role. Not an overly long setup. The most rigid forend money can bu

Likely the most rugged 7.62 in the world.

if you shoot it for a year and decide 7.62 is big ghey then snag a 6.5/.260/6creed barrel for it. Easy swap.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

In my humble opinion I always ask this question prior to picking a caliber : does the ammo choice feed 100% from common magazines without failure or puking when the mag gets dirty ? All quality ammo can produce groups, but some may not be suitable for "duty/serious" usage especially if the gun and mag get dirty/wet or sees elevated strings of fire. After that - caliber/ammo availability from multiple sources is my next criteria.

That being said if it were my choice I'd side towards KAC, LMT in large frame for usable energy with known-reliable gas systems

 

[Jsp556]

16” 7.62 lmt Mws and be done with it. 800-1000yd capability with 175’s. The ability to shoot wolf or xm80 in a battle rifle role. Not an overly long setup. The most rigid forend money can bu

Likely the most rugged 7.62 in the world.

if you shoot it for a year and decide 7.62 is big ghey then snag a 6.5/.260/6creed barrel for it. Easy swap.

The MWS is the easy button.

 

[RUTGERS95]

16” 7.62 lmt Mws and be done with it. 800-1000yd capability with 175’s. The ability to shoot wolf or xm80 in a battle rifle role. Not an overly long setup. The most rigid forend money can bu

Likely the most rugged 7.62 in the world.

if you shoot it for a year and decide 7.62 is big ghey then snag a 6.5/.260/6creed barrel for it. Easy swap.

end thread

 

[Mister Ridge]

Mark 12 Mod 0 in 6.5 Grendel. Personal choice, not based on all out effectiveness/efficiency.