Whatever Happened to Quality?

[Hobo Hilton]

Yes, this article is from March 7, 2008. Thirteen years ago the industry leaders were concerned enough to publish articles looking for solutions to this issue.

The last lines are words of wisdom:
Coburn stresses this point in no uncertain terms. "Morale is everything in quality," he says. "People want to do a good job, and we have to enable that."

Whatever Happened to Quality?

Quality is more than just a statistical analysis tool for manufacturing lines. When done right, quality should encompass the entire enterprise.

www.industryweek.com

 

[johnnyvw]

I remember reading an article about a GM plant that made connecting rods for the "Iron Duke" 4 cyl. motors. The only production criteria was how many tons of rods were made...nothing on quality. That explains why so many of those motors blew up

 

[Aries256]

Corporations now prioritize profit, they don’t care about quality. They also tend to treat their employees like shit, for shit pay, which tends to make the employees not give a shit. Especially is worse now that everything is made in China where the corporations are even worse.

 

[Dirty D]

Corporations now prioritize profit, they don’t care about quality. They also tend to treat their employees like shit, for shit pay, which tends to make the employees not give a shit. Especially is worse now that everything is made in China where the corporations are even worse.

I see this every day, I used to be in management before I went back to the trades and employees don’t give a fuck because they know that most companies don’t give a fuck about anything but the C-suite officers bonuses.

eta: If you treat your employees well they will treat you well, if you treat your employees like shit…

 

[Aries256]

I see this every day, I used to be in management before I went back to the trades and employees don’t give a fuck because they know that most companies don’t give a fuck about anything but the C-suite officers bonuses.

eta: If you treat your employees well they will treat you well, if you treat your employees like shit…

Exactly. Employees now are just a number. Individuality is frowned upon, and now they think they can control your body, speech, thought, beliefs, etc. corporate is terrible.

 

[Hobo Hilton]

I’d say this is tied directly to the lack of work ethic in todays society

I agree.... I see it as a world wide issue. Seems almost like the developed countries are having a race to the bottom.

 

[vinniedelpino]

China.

Keeping it short and sweet.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I think that worrying about the work ethics of others is a waste of time until one has done so with their own work ethics first. Those who don't are simply professional finger pointers.

"Nope..., not me, Boss..."

I suspect that the average Chinese worker simply cannot consider such terms. Such is the lot of the slave.

I bailed out of the corporate Culture in 1998.

 

[candyx]

Work Ethic is what the elites instilled into the have nots to keep them working and it lasted a long time till recently. You want quality then buy a Bentley the chosen product of the elites, otherwise buy products off a production line where quality is reduced to make it affordable.

 

[skl1]

I would say financialization is to blame. It leads to lots of short-term (quarterly) thinking, high turnover, lots of outsourcing. Executives are at a company for 6 quarters, and they are trying to make ridiculous bonuses by triggering certain (financial) ratios for a quarter's end to make the stock go up, even at long term expense or even disaster for the company. But that'll happen once they're gone (with their bonus). So you see things like Dell's outsourcing support to India (a disaster; they had to bring it back); lots of folks outsourcing profitable business lines like support or repair before they're only 6% margin instead of the target 68% margin. So they're diluting profitability (despite being profitable AND necessary to maintain customer loyalty and top line sales). But they get outsourced to make quarterly profitability number look better. Piecework and other metrics that drive high volume and low quality. Lack of any sort of loyalty to employees which is felt and leads to same from employees to the company. It goes on and on. I wish we had more private companies. Or forced longer tenures on execs. Or limited bonus/stock option compensation for execs.

 

[brianf]

you guys are looking at it from one direction

for every 1 employee who "thinks" they care there are 20 who only show up to do the minimum and get paid

no employer wants to have a heavy hand, its the employees over the years that cause iron clad procedures

in 1950, if a guy lost his finger in a press for because he wasnt using the guards he went to hospital and came back to work

over the last 20 years that person now has a multi million dollar lawsuit...that they will win

corporate then has to create SOP's and internal HR procedures to deal with every possibly outcome from every type of employee.

there are some companies that are scum bags, but then dont take the job..its on you if you stay the whipping boy

 

[Bullfrog08]

My wife and relatives call me a perfectionist all the time. I never feel like my stuff is even close to perfection. I know in our sport you have to be precise in everything we do, so a lot of us fit under the umbrella of perfectionist. My personal experience with that, is that nothing is really ever good enough for me. The only thing in my life that seems close to perfect is math.

The topic of quality with the people on this forum is a downward spiral. Too many perfectionist here.

 

[brianf]

My wife and relatives call me a perfectionist all the time. I never feel like my stuff is even close to perfection. I know in our sport you have to be precise in everything we do, so a lot of us fit under the umbrella of perfectionist. My personal experience with that, is that nothing is really ever good enough for me. The only thing in my life that seems close to perfect is math.

The topic of quality with the people on this forum is a downward spiral. Too many perfectionist here.

around here, too many people think they are perfectionists but arent

 

[diverdon]

Quality has been gone so long that none remember its grave. Quantity has now died also. Try buying a new car. The third sister affordability is on her death bed.

 

[brianf]

playing devils advocate

does anyone remember how crappy and cheaply build products were from 1970-80's, never mind the 50'-60's where cars lasted 4 years and the rotted out

 

[BLEE]

Many American companies competing with China, India and Indonesia. They figure, if you can't beat'em, join'em. It's how the com-block countries did it. Emphasis was on quantity, not quality. The days of an appliance with a 20-30 yr life span are over. Many American vehicles are nice, but I don't think the cars have kept up with the nice European and Japanese vehicles. American trucks are competitive, American cars, not so much.

 

[brianf]

Many American companies competing with China, India and Indonesia. They figure, if you can't beat'em, join'em. It's how the com-block countries did it. Emphasis was on quantity, not quality. The days of an appliance with a 20-30 yr life span are over. Many American vehicles are nice, but I don't think the cars have kept up with the nice European and Japanese vehicles. American trucks are competitive, American cars, not so much.

in theory i agree but most of the European and Japanese vehicles that are sold in the US are built in the US by American workers

and in reality if anyone thinks that running a 30 year old fridge is a smart idea they are confused.

the efficiency of a new fridge compared to running the older power hungry fridge pays for itself

 

[candyx]

in theory i agree but most of the European and Japanese vehicles that are sold in the US are built in the US by American workers

and in reality if anyone thinks that running a 30 year old fridge is a smart idea they are confused.

the efficiency of a new fridge compared to running the older power hungry fridge pays for itself

Even my Ice Box ?

 

[brianf]

Even my Ice Box ?

Sorry for the dumb question…I’ve box as in old school freezer or igloo cooler

 

[candyx]

Sorry for the dumb question…I’ve box as in old school freezer or igloo cooler

Summer months are hard locating natural ice so meats do get a little funky so we just grill them longer.

 

[skl1]

brianf,

I agree that American trade unions destroyed American vehicle quality in the 70's. Not sure how Europeans end up with different focus, but trade unions are about maintaining high level of craftsmanship and maintaining high price/value/wages vs more holidays (teachers) and keeping pedophiles or drunks or druggies employed and making them impossible to get rid of while killing any incentive pay for GOOD performance because it effectively punishes the idiots (gov't workers unions, auto unions, teachers unions). But Italians and Germans make great cars, welding machines, appliances and other products with labor unions and some protectionism. Here we pretend any protectionism not pitting Americans against Chinese workers making .30 cents an hour is against free market capitalism and pretend CEO pay, determined by 1,000 8th generation rich people who all serve on each others Boards of Directors and hire each other as CEO's at ridiculous salaries is "just free market economics". Obviously there are some exceptions.

BLEE--the designed obsolescence you're referencing, even introducing an ECU on appliances where the failure date can be dialed in pretty exactly to 7 years to maximize number of initial purchasers who've moved out of the house (so the new owners don't know how quickly the appliance failed) and making the repair cost 60% of new purchase to maximize new unit sale and landfill use) really pisses me off too. But look at how this has degraded a once great company like GE. They've sold off 100 years of engineering expertise in 15 years and now they basically do predatory money lending and make crap. They've sold off gear-making divisions that were unbelievable and took generations to develop. But GE capital will loan money and then destroy a new business if they get into trouble and can't make a payment. I think Oracle and analytics, with financialization, will end with ruining everything. Unless the drivers and metrics change, we'll keep a very short-term focus, realizing that the most extreme candidates will maximize fundraising and primary turnout. Poor products and outsourcing will maximize short term profit. Etc.

 

[Jaron3]

I’m sorry. My generation fucked up. Feel better?

 

[eca7891]

Quality is sitting right next to customer service….

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Only up north where road salt was king if the roads.
Come to a car show in the south. It's like every tri five ever built is still around. 60's mustangs, Camaro, Impala, GTO's and the rest are standard fare.

playing devils advocate

does anyone remember how crappy and cheaply build products were from 1970-80's, never mind the 50'-60's where cars lasted 4 years and the rotted out

Now the gas shortage crap of the 70's is a different story. Along with the 80's American stuff that was pumped out to compete against the Japanese.
Anyone remember the Chrysler bailout of the 80's? Govt Reliant K cars were the bomb!

 

[Jaron3]

I’m sorry. My generation fucked up. Feel better?

Jesus Christ get over it. I’m tired of taking the blame for how you raised your kids wrong. Show me how we fucked up and I’ll show you YOU fucked up. Fair?

 

[TxWelder35]

playing devils advocate

does anyone remember how crappy and cheaply build products were from 1970-80's, never mind the 50'-60's where cars lasted 4 years and the rotted out

Wasn’t alive wouldn’t know, but what I do know is that my grandfather had a pile of cars from that area and each one had new/rebuild/etc engines and transmissions put in them multiple times over the course of their lives.

those who say the quality isn’t there in new cars/trucks, idk what fantasy world you are living in. They make these cars/trucks so reliable now that someone that has zero clue about how a car operates/works can do nothing but put gas in it and might remember to change the oil in it and the thing will run and drive longer than most people care to keep them. They need next to no maintenance and just keep going.

buddy of mine, got a 2009 ram 1500 in high school, and still has it today, with 230k miles on it and the thing is just now needing attention. Front end work, suspension, etc. engine and trans are still just fine after surviving a high school kid driving it, pulling boats all around, and driven like a Polaris rzr at the deer lease it’s whole life.

 

[hlee]

The buying habits of the Americas consumer killed quality manufacturing.

 

[hlee]

playing devils advocate

does anyone remember how crappy and cheaply build products were from 1970-80's, never mind the 50'-60's where cars lasted 4 years and the rotted out

Anyone that waxes poetically about how good the old cars were in the presence of my dad- who was a garage mechanic in the 60's- will get a swift- though figurative- kick in the ass. He lived it and has no qualms about telling those with poor memories just how bad those old autos really were, as compared to today's autos.

 

[Im2bent]

Maybe the end users should be blamed? You guys seem to be forgetting the poors and/or cheapskates. When everyone wants to buy the cheapest pos they can find guess what you get? Cheap shit.

 

[TxWelder35]

Maybe the end users should be blamed? You guys seem to be forgetting the poors and/or cheapskates. When everyone wants to buy the cheapest pos they can find guess what you get? Cheap shit.

This. You can still buy stuff that will last a lifetime but it damn sure isn’t going to $19.99 at the ol Wally World.

Buying commercial/industrial grade products goes a long way also

 

[hlee]

This. You can still buy stuff that will last a lifetime but it damn sure isn’t going to $19.99 at the ol Wally World.

Buying commercial/industrial grade products goes a long way also

Just don't confuse "contractor grade" with commercial grade...

 

[JMGlasgow]

Jesus Christ get over it. I’m tired of taking the blame for how you raised your kids wrong. Show me how we fucked up and I’ll show you YOU fucked up. Fair?

Arguing with yourself?

 

[Jaron3]

Arguing with yourself?

Maybe. But at least I take blame.

 

[eca7891]

Arguing with yourself?

Lol…

I thought the same thing.

 

[BytorJr]

I remember reading an article about a GM plant that made connecting rods for the "Iron Duke" 4 cyl. motors. The only production criteria was how many tons of rods were made...nothing on quality. That explains why so many of those motors blew up

Or Bob Lutz's book when he asked why the body gaps were so large and what it would take to make them smaller - to be answered by the chief machinist...well, because nobody asked us to make them smaller. We have capability, but nobody spec'd it, so we built to spec!!

 

[Maggot]

Regarding the OP.
Quality got sold to China, where she floundered and died.

 

[candyx]

Pintos were fine automobiles until assholes started to drive into the back of them......

 

[Im2bent]

Pintos were fine automobiles until assholes started to drive into the back of them......

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!!!!!! AMC made the finest vehicles the planet has ever seen. How do you top the pacer , gremlin,hornet,matador and dare I mention the eagle.???

 

[candyx]

HOW DARE YOU SIR!!!!!!!! AMC made the finest vehicles the planet has ever seen. How do you top the pacer , gremlin,hornet,matador and dare I mention the eagle.???

I stand correct Sir, my memory is not as sharp as it once was. How can anyone forget AMC designers !!

 

[Im2bent]

Hey the Pacer was a chick magnet....

 

[Hobo Hilton]

Yeah we can blame this and blame that but it boils down in the end to the individual. Take responsibility. Take pride in what you do. Doesn’t matter if you’re building a car, mowing a lawn or working a drive through. If you’re gonna do it, do it right. People can’t even manage to make sure a straw goes in your bag but they want a $15 min wage.

That was how my Dad raised me. His saying "Son, you can be a garbage man if you want to... Just be a good garbage man"... That phrase stuck for life.

 

[akmike47]

I'm tired of hearing about that 996 whining.

I used to work 7 16s no days off. Boo fucking hoo

 

[Aries256]

playing devils advocate

does anyone remember how crappy and cheaply build products were from 1970-80's, never mind the 50'-60's where cars lasted 4 years and the rotted out

I have various things from the 60’s-90’s that are still working. Whereas things built today you’re lucky last 6 months to a year

 

[HogsLife]

That was how my Dad raised me. His saying "Son, you can be a garbage man if you want to... Just be a good garbage man"... That phrase stuck for life.

Amen to that

 

[Jscb1b]

Jesus Christ get over it. I’m tired of taking the blame for how you raised your kids wrong. Show me how we fucked up and I’ll show you YOU fucked up. Fair?

The fuck? He is arguing with himself.

 

[Jscb1b]

And I had a pinto wagon. Beat the shit out of it. It still came back for more.

 

[Bradu]

Corporations now prioritize profit, they don’t care about quality. They also tend to treat their employees like shit, for shit pay, which tends to make the employees not give a shit. Especially is worse now that everything is made in China where the corporations are even worse.

It is sad watching companies push production and happy with poor quality. They will tell you it is cheaper to deal with warranty claims instead of spending a little more time to do the job correctly. I quit a job after 6 years because it got out of control and I wasn’t willing to do a half ass job to satisfy management.

 

[brianf]

I have various things from the 60’s-90’s that are still working. Whereas things built today you’re lucky last 6 months to a year

You buying the wrong brand…shovels and hammers don’t count lol

 

[Average guy]

Everyday I experience mediocrity. It seems as it’s become the corporate expectation. It starts with mediocre managers who have sucked their way into the positions. They manage people poorly and plan production and maintenance the same. So surprise the execution of said plans is mediocre. It’s a viscous cycle. If you do anything more than average you are a superstar. I’ve experienced this with multiple companies. Collectively we all need to quit accepting mediocrity.

 

[HogsLife]

Everyday I experience mediocrity. It seems as it’s become the corporate expectation. It starts with mediocre managers who have sucked their way into the positions. They manage people poorly and plan production and maintenance the same. So surprise the execution of said plans is mediocre. It’s a viscous cycle. If you do anything more than average you are a superstar. I’ve experienced this with multiple companies. Collectively we all need to quit accepting mediocrity.

were gonna need to start by changing your screen name….