Whats the best of the cheaper ammunition? Eley Target example

[justin amateur]

But Milo, the internet says you just have to find the brand y'er rifle likes.
It has nothing to do with the velocity caused vertical spread or the signs
of rough handling or sloppy assembly on the factory production line, right?
Claims of rifle preference have nothing to do with small sample size or random acts of accuracy, hmmm?
It's all about those rifles being capable of magically fixing cartridge defects, eh?

 

[flatland1]

I get tired enough after 10 or so 5-shot groups that - unless I'm well-rested by a really good night's sleep the night before - I start to get a little looser in my holds and find I'll settle for less than perfect hold & shot break. It's just fatigue, and taking a break between series of groups to put up fresh targets helps.
When it comes to quality/consistency between SK Rifle Match & Lapua Center-X, last time I lot tested here at home (5-6yrs ago, when I could still buy lot samples to test), I went through at least a dozen lots of each of these brands/grades of ammo before finding something that shot good enough to make me feel good about buying case quantities of each. Unless there's been a significant overall improvement in quality/consistency of both, I'd expect to need to test as many lots as before to find an exceptional lot of either. I've had the same experience with SK Std+. However, in the last couple of months, after putting my name on the list for Std+ & Rifle Match at a couple of different places, I've gotten two cases of Std+ & one of Rifle Match that have been performing pretty well - maybe not quite up to the level of what I used to get by lot testing here at home, but good enough to that I'm not that disappointed with any of it. Granted, it took over 11 months after I put my name on the list for ammo at Good Shooting, but since I was still shooting out of what was left of five cases of SK & Lapua purchased back in 2019, I wasn't hurting for ammo - but neither was I shooting as much & as often as I'd have liked. It's somewhat reassuring to me that I've been able to buy blind (untested) and still get ammo good enough to keep me happy, especially with the shortages. Either SK/Lapua has tightened their QC, or I've just been lucky...and I'd much rather think that it's the first....

 

[Milo 2.5]

But Milo, the internet says you just have to find the brand y'er rifle likes.
It has nothing to do with the velocity caused vertical spread or the signs
of rough handling or sloppy assembly on the factory production line, right?
Claims of rifle preference have nothing to do with small sample size or random acts of accuracy, hmmm?
It's all about those rifles being capable of magically fixing cartridge defects, eh?

Lol, I don't know anymore, I just know I hate testing ammo for rifles I really do not expect pinpoint accuracy from. But if you take the time and expense to go shoot, hitting what you aim at seems to be more rewarding so testing mandatory.
I take a lot of kids shooting, cannot hand them guns that don't shoot or function. I can and do regulate target size for the situation.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Hey....hang on there a second....I recognize that target!

That's the jbell special. 50 and 100 yard moa rings.

I probably found it here. I print one off at the house and photocopy a few at work.

 

[SanPatHogger]

2 groups at 200 yards with the Eley outlaw. both 10 shotgroups. The dropped shot on the left sounded different.
This groups well enough that I should be able to hit almost all the targets at the small match I go to that goes out to just under 200 yards.
"If I do my part" My part is the hard part.
This was dialed at 6.2 mil. Maybe could come up .1 based on the right target and I was hitting slightly low on a 6 inch steel plate.
Now what to do next month? Do I just buy a pile of this or do I try Eley club or some SK next?

 

[MajorD]

I am a graybeard now, and back in the old days (1980’s) anyone who was serious about accuracy shot eley. I started with mid to low price bracket eley and it does the job for the most part, and seems to be more available these days than SK. I think quality and consistency is slightly better with SK in the same price range. as has been mentioned with 22’s so many times, you just never know until you do some testing. Some guns like German ammo, others prefer English. Even two seemingly identical guns of the same model might show a preference for one brand over the other, there is just no way to predict it

 

[justin amateur]

I've never had a rifle show a preference simply by brand.

Truth, never by brand. Poor results always have a cause.
I can see through the scope when it's me. Too much movement of the crosshairs.
Visible wobble around the center of bull. Wind effects match the wind-i-cators,
whether shown by flags, vegetation or felt on skin/hair. Vertical spread is
usually bullet velocity variations or atmospheric turbulence. With the chrony out front
I can compare point of impact relative to point of aim and the measured velocity variations.

If the cartridges aren't uniform in assembly, components, muzzle velocities,
no rifle can fix the problems...brand name is no guarantee of cartridge quality.
Claims of rifle "likes" is usually based on a memory of a particularly good box of cartridges.
That same rifle will spit strays and fliers from the next brick purchased, of the same brand,
due to differences in manufacture. No rifle can fix cartridge defects, as they ain't magic.

My rifles "like" consistent muzzle velocities and well made cartridges with few factory defects.
Doesn't matter Eley, RWS, Lapua/SK or Fiocchi Italia, if the cartridges were made correctly,
they produce consistent accuracy. If they don't, it ain't rifle preference, it's something else.

Assuming that all cartridges are identical as they roll off the assembly line, is an error in judgement.

With any ammunition, garbage in = garbage out.

 

[Greedus]

Hey....hang on there a second....I recognize that target!

That's the jbell special. 50 and 100 yard moa rings.

Hey there, were can we find the file to print this target? I like the dual range purpose of it.

pete

 

[SanPatHogger]

Hey there, were can we find the file to print this target? I like the dual range purpose of it.

pete

I'm looking and I can't find it now. I may have been looking for the "Green Monster" target and stumbled on it. Thats the thing I like about it too, both 50 and 100 yard moa rings.

 

[justin amateur]

Actual Accuracy of 22lr Premium Rifles

That sucks 🥺 Maybe I'll do like most people and put a sticker over it 🤣 "Oh what's that you say?...that's what's called a "sighter", I shoot 4 shot groups and a sighter for elevation and windage..."

www.snipershide.com

 

[CharlieBSer]

So I want to upgrade my ammunition, but I do not want to spend $18 a box for Tenex.​

"I think Eley is having QC problems and have been for some time now...here's why."

I am retired & 73, I don't compete & never have...I shoot here at home and devise targets and distances for testing, tuning and entertainment...also to get better at precision shooting & doping the wind...I suppose you could say shooting is my hobby.
My choice ammo has been Eley Match for years, my rifle is a CZ452.

In the past couple years I have noticed FTF's increasing in numbers where I used to rarely see one. When they became alarming, I thought that FTF's were from a weak firing pin spring and replaced it with one that (supposedly) was 10% stronger. I inspected the striker face for wear or damage then cleaned & dry lubed the firing pin race with dry lube and went about shooting, thinking the problem would be solved. Looking at the cases, I was getting good strikes and the strikes were not out beyond the rim of the case where it would be trying to crush the radius of the rim...all seemed mechanically sound.
Still, more and more FTF's occurred to the point where I had 9 or 10 within 1/2 a brick. That was the time I stopped to find out if the CZ was doing it's part and it was not the problem.
A friend in Pennsylvania was having the same problems with his Eley Contact and Benchrest ammo...we started looking deeper. Harry suggests cutting the cases of these FTF strikes on the strike imprint to find out whether or not the firing pin was actually crushing the rim with adequate force to close the rim gap inside and ignite the priming compound. I did this to several cases...

The striker is clearly crushing the rim and closing the channel around the inside the rim where the priming compound is 'supposed' to be. This leads me to think there is a QC problem in the Eley plant across possibly all their production lines.
Inadequate priming compound not only causes FTF's but also promotes inconsistent ignition which in turn creates out of group POI's...this condition is unacceptable regardless of $'s spent per box.

My latest quest has been shooting at 3/4" spots @ 100 yards, the objective is to 'first' - hit the spot with all the 5 shots of each group and 'second' - to make the smallest group sizes possible.
My latest card...

I suspect two things primarily for these open groupings, inadequate & inconsistent ignition and of course the wind, it is a great destroyer of bughole groups too...the wind I am learning to deal with.
I have been posting progress at Rimfire Central on this game I shoot, I posted about my FTF concerns mentioned above and I received a PM from another member who advised me of something I had no knowledge about at all...

So...my conclusion to this long winded posting is this...
"Be wary of Eley Anything. Ammo is way too expensive today to accept such QC problems as normal. I have 6 more bricks of Eley Match to shoot and then I'll be back looking for a replacement. Not a good situation to face in today's shortages."

 

[NotMOA]

I have not found any $8.00 ammo that was substantially better the CCI- SV. My personal take is that CCI- SV is very good for the money. From there you need to spend $10 to $12 a box. My experience has been that SK Long Range and SK Biathlon Sport have been worth the money to me. Jury is still out on SK Rifle Match and Pistol Match Special. I have decided to not purchase anything over $15 a box that I can't lot test first.

 

[CharlieBSer]

I have not found any $8.00 ammo that was substantially better the CCI- SV. My personal take is that CCI- SV is very good for the money. From there you need to spend $10 to $12 a box. My experience has been that SK Long Range and SK Biathlon Sport have been worth the money to me. Jury is still out on SK Rifle Match and Pistol Match Special. I have decided to not purchase anything over $15 a box that I can't lot test first.

I think that the best way to compare cost and performance of various brands is to include the Chrony numbers from your testing for the lots & Brands you speak of. At least provide ES & SD's.
Unless we see some empirical data to go along with your conjecture, it's all just about personal preference.

 

[Cowpokey]

I think that the best way to compare cost and performance of various brands is to include the Chrony numbers from your testing for the lots & Brands you speak of. At least provide ES & SD's.
Unless we see some empirical data to go along with your conjecture, it's all just about personal preference.

Here's some data, Vudoo Three 60, 20" non-threaded MTU barrel, MagnetoSpeed V3, environmental on the sheet(s).

Edit add: each "string" is ten rounds.

 

[NotMOA]

I think that the best way to compare cost and performance of various brands is to include the Chrony numbers from your testing for the lots & Brands you speak of. At least provide ES & SD's.
Unless we see some empirical data to go along with your conjecture, it's all just about personal preference.

You are of course correct. I do not have a chronograph so I can't provide what you ask. I do keep track of my group sizes at 50 and 100 as well as IBS target scores and I have not found $8.00 ammo that is substantially better. My group sizes and scores have suggested to me that if you want good ammo (accurate in terms of group size and target scores) that you have to spend $12 or more a box. Do not get me wrong. CCI-SV is only good ammo FOR THE PRICE. It mostly goes in my handguns now. What $8.00 ammo do you recommend? Has your experience been that multiple lots have performed consistently?

 

[NotMOA]

Here's some data, Vudoo Three 60, 20" non-threaded MTU barrel, MagnetoSpeed V3, environmental on the sheet(s).

Edit add: each "string" is ten rounds.

What is L-LR? Lapua Long Range?

 

[Cowpokey]

What is L-LR?

Lapua Long Range

 

[Lightning8]

I think that the best way to compare cost and performance of various brands is to include the Chrony numbers from your testing for the lots & Brands you speak of. At least provide ES & SD's.
Unless we see some empirical data to go along with your conjecture, it's all just about personal preference.

What is frustrating is the sample sizes and the data swings in same box. In one box of 50 of SK Biathlon, first 10 round sample had SD 7 then the next 10 round sample had SD 17. You could see the difference in the groups at 100, the sample with SD 17 had noticeable flyers high and low with a tight group of 6 in center. Such is rimfire

 

[CharlieBSer]

Here's some data, Vudoo Three 60, 20" non-threaded MTU barrel, MagnetoSpeed V3, environmental on the sheet(s).

Edit add: each "string" is ten rounds.

That my friend is enviable empiracle data, you have done your homework well.

You are of course correct. I do not have a chronograph so I can't provide what you ask. I do keep track of my group sizes at 50 and 100 as well as IBS target scores and I have not found $8.00 ammo that is substantially better. My group sizes and scores have suggested to me that if you want good ammo (accurate in terms of group size and target scores) that you have to spend $12 or more a box. Do not get me wrong. CCI-SV is only good ammo FOR THE PRICE. It mostly goes in my handguns now. What $8.00 ammo do you recommend? Has your experience been that multiple lots have performed consistently?

I have been using Eley Match for years now exclusively, I haven't the foggiest idea about mid-level fodder. In my old vintage rifles I favor the CCI-SV, they are irons or peep & post sighted so I don't expect the precision that I do in the CZ. Those are brought out when the grand kids are here.
Whatever data you can accumulate helps to understand the quality of whatever ammo your testing. If you always shoot outside like I do, you have to also keep notes on the wind you had on a card to help explain anomalies caused by a sudden change of direction or gust of wind. Learning to cope with the wind is a major learning curve for me. No two ranges react the same to the wind charts, I think we need to concentrate on the home range we shoot at to get an edge doping the wind.

What is frustrating is the sample sizes and the data swings in same box. In one box of 50 of SK Biathlon, first 10 round sample had SD 7 then the next 10 round sample had SD 17. You could see the difference in the groups at 100, the sample with SD 17 had noticeable flyers high and low with a tight group of 6 in center. Such is rimfire

Agreed...small sample size will forever change, I see that in the Eley Match also. I try to get the Chrony numbers on new lots by Chronoing a full box of 50 first thing when I am checking my tuner settings but still the numbers will move around a little bit, just not as bad as the small sample size.

 

[mikeshaw2]

I can't verify chrono data, but I can tell that my 457s shoot CCI std velocity 'OK' but like TAC22 and SK Rifle Match better.

Group sizes are smaller with TAC22 and SK Rifle Match.

That's my addition to the thread. Back to lurking while y'all more experienced shooters tell me my eyes are lying

M

 

[BILL7532]

I can't verify chrono data, but I can tell that my 457s shoot CCI std velocity 'OK' but like TAC22 and SK Rifle Match better.

Group sizes are smaller with TAC22 and SK Rifle Match.

That's my addition to the thread. Back to lurking while y'all more experienced shooters tell me my eyes are lying

M

Regardless of the tier of the ammo whether it be the top level match or the budget level of a brand I still would say that some rifles like and shoot brand A better than brand B or C.

Where one rifle may shoot budget SK better another rifle may shoot the CCI sv better, that does not change just because the cost of the ammo lessens.

 

[justin amateur]

Okay, let's discuss how a rifle can like a particular brand.

First, some questions....

1) Can any rifle fix variations in muzzle velocity?
Not talking about minor variations of a few fps that can be compensated for with a tuner,
but hefty differences of 40 plus fps or more? Not that I've ever seen.

2) Can any rifle fix asymmetric bullets? Those that are visibly distorted
due to issues during manufacture or damaged by rough handling on the assembly line.

3) Can any rifle repair unevenly seated bullets or sloppy crimps? Nope, not happening.

4) Can any rifle resize out of spec cartridges due to over/undersized brass or bullets? Nope.

5) Is any rifle capable of repairing a bullet heel damaged on the production line, before seating? Nope.

So if a brand has any of those issues, is a rifle going to like those cartridges? Highly unlikely.
In order to produce predictable and consistent trajectories, you have to start with uniformly well made cartridges.
Brand is not a guarantee of results. Even Tenex, X-Act, R50 will deliver crappy results
when the lot testing doesn't catch the problems and the run is mislabeled.
Finding well made rimfire ammunition is a problem.

A brick purchased last month produces spectacular results.
The same brand purchased this month throws strays and shows hefty vertical spread.
It's not brand, but cartridge quality that determines results.

The youngsters at the local range have stopped saying "My rifle likes CCI SV".
Why? I have a brick and a half left of what may be the worst CCI SV ever sold.
Someone tells me "all day long" with CCI SV, I have them show me, with a box of my substandard cartridges.

Garbage in = garbage out.

 

[BILL7532]

Okay, let's discuss how a rifle can like a particular brand.

Certain chamber designs are tailored to better optimize certain projectile shapes over others for one!

 

[justin amateur]

I can see that, so you have an EPS cut chamber.
Will that fix mv spread? Cartridge defects?
Or will that same EPS chamber also produce predictable results with RWS, Lapua or Fiocchi Italia match ammo?

I have a Lilja and a Shilen with the EPS chambers.
Both produce similar results with any of the top brands of ammo
as long as they aren't the cartridges that slipped past factory quality control/batch labeling.

In bench rest use, with the absolute best ammunition, how much difference will chamber type make?
I don't know, other than a sporter cut chamber isn't as consistent as a match chamber.
Or is that due to cheap ammo being used in a sporter chamber?

 

[BILL7532]

In bench rest use, with the absolute best ammunition, how much difference will chamber type make?

I do not have that answer but there must be reasons that certain well-known Gunsmiths prefer barrels with one chamber over the other or one competitor prefers to shoot barrels with a certain chamber.

 

[justin amateur]

I've read that also Bill. Seems like most of the rimfire smiths have a favored reamer.
I can't offer any information other than it seems to be a personal preference based on their experiences.

The local benchrest competitors will swap brands depending on the results.
Send the rifle off to the Lapua or Eley facilities and purchase cases by tunnel testing.
I've also seen them use RWS when a particularly good batch is bragged on.
They will swap brands any time that a particular lot shows better results, tight mv's.

 

[BILL7532]

I've read that also Bill. Seems like most of the rimfire smiths have a favored reamer.

I have read certain chamber designs favor the Lapua designed projectiles.
But honestly unless every rifle was precision built for the exact same bolt headspace and every varience was removed between the rifles except the chamber then it is speculation alone what the difference may be.

That type of precision is above my paygrade and pocketbook and really needs as well.
Same goes for having a rifle lot tested at one of the ammo factories.
For shooting having fun I am not going to pay $20-$25 a box of 50 to shoot a .22 at paper targets.

My limit is usually $10-$12 and I will shoot a fair amount of TAC 22 and/or CCI sv as well.

But I do have rifles that seem to shoot some brands of ammo better or more accurate than others and that could be firing rounds out of the same boxes.
Still does not eliminate ammo variance itself as a possible cause but when I see the pattern clearly emerge regardless of the cause rather than try to scientifically explain it I will just feed it what it appears to prefer for a diet.

 

[CharlieBSer]

("Whether or not a rifle 'likes' a particular manufacturers box-o-.22lr-bullits...'or not' can be attributed to a number of factors all relating to the rifle 'and or' ammo.")

I am going to assume that when the term 'likes' is used, that 'likes' means that the rifle 'performs better' or 'worse'. I have trouble with that 'likes' descriptive but I am not going to make something out of it's use.
I am also going to assume that we all are using sound functional rifles when making these ammo comparisons.

I am going to assume that we all agree that the barrel physically responds to harmonics (the pressure wave)...it's definitely a lesser degree of harmonics/vibrations/barrel swing etc. due to the low pressure of the .22lr cartridge but that barrel moves. Bull barrel to pencil barrel, barrels move. I am not saying they all move the same way, whether they make a vertical narrow oval, a figure 8 or they swing straight up and down, I want to keep that part simple for this example.

Last assumption is that we all realize that 'projectile barrel time' (timed from ignition to the point where the projectile leaves the muzzle) is a function of 'fps' projectile speed.
Since all barrels move, the trajectory will vary as a function of barrel time.
I think these are the primary reasons our rifles 'like & dislike' various ammo, regardless of it's cost.

Varmint Al's website explains everything ... http://varmintal.com/aeste.htm

Here is their explanation that explains what I am talking about...

 

[Williwaw]

I think these are the primary reasons our rifles 'like & dislike' various ammo, regardless of it's cost.

I have wondered about how much of a factor this might be but have not come to the same conclusion. A factor certainly but I'm not sure the effect is of sufficient magnitude to be the primary factor. It is also worth noting that many of these ammo finicky rifles have barrels that are thick, short, and without taper. The magnitude of their rise and fall is so small as to make finding a convincing tuner position a challenge.

There is an even more egregious position on the curve and that is the zone between good and bad. In that case high velocity round are launched at a higher trajectory and slower round launched on the down swing.

I believe many of the conclusions regarding our rifles likes and dislikes are based on sample sizes which are not statistically significant. Of course I have nothing statistically significant to base that opinion on.

 

[justin amateur]

I believe many of the conclusions regarding our rifles likes and dislikes
are based on sample sizes which are not statistically significant.

That's the truth. My rifle "likes" is usually based on a memory of a particularly good box of ammo.
Not documented results obtained from a substantial run of targets/scores.
All too many times I've purchased a brick of 22lr that was capable of consistent sub-moa at 100 yards.
The next brick of the same brand/type could not match the results due to mv spread and cartridge differences.
Welcome to the rimfire assembly line lottery. Some bricks we get lucky, others not so much.

 

[CharlieBSer]

I believe many of the conclusions regarding our rifles likes and dislikes
are based on sample sizes which are not statistically significant.

That's the truth. My rifle "likes" is usually based on a memory of a particularly good box of ammo.
Not documented results obtained from a substantial run of targets/scores.
All too many times I've purchased a brick of 22lr that was capable of consistent sub-moa at 100 yards.
The next brick of the same brand/type could not match the results due to mv spread and cartridge differences.
Welcome to the rimfire assembly line lottery. Some bricks we get lucky, others not so much.

I know about the extra effort involved in collecting 'data'...and how valuable it is to us shooters in many ways...BUT...collecting DATA is a ROYAL PAIN IN THE BUTT!
Many of you don't have the opportunity because of rules & regs at public ranges regarding the use of a Chronograph. Sad & unfortunate...the Chrony gives us a 'FINGERPRINT' of the 'ammo your tool likes'.
Small sample sizes are erroneous, larger samples are closer to the truth about a particular lot. Folks who have only small samples can average them and get a little more accurate fingerprint of that particular lot just for the sake of having a more clear picture of their 'tool liked' ammo performance.

I came from a centerfire handloaders perspective, I was the NEWEST NOOBY in the .22lr BR discipline (I had little to no-respect for the lowly 22, the cartridge you don't have any control over regarding speed & it's QA)...so...back in the day when my tool was a Sav. MKII FVT fitted with peep & globe I went through all the NOOB's gyrations of measuring rim thickness, weight sorting, 'COAL/fdb' (cartridge overall length/to front drive band) & combinations of the three.
Attempts at weight sorting...

Home built jig for measuring COAL/fdb...

Eley higher end products were very consistent but lesser quality ammo measures up and down the caliper...
Again, all pain in the butt data but it gives us a better idea of how they fit our chambers.

Prepping for a MKII test to attain more data...

Here I am sorting rim thickness from COAL/fdb sortings...discriminating a little deeper into the fingerprint...

Making these measurements, I did see physical problems with excessive lube and the projectile and/or the crimp quality but examples of these problems were few and far in-between.

YOU CAN SEE THAT THE ABOVE DATA IS A GREAT DEAL OF WORK & TIME EXPENDED...BUT...I got a clearer picture of the actual problems that can be found in a typical box of .22lr and in honest disclosure I have to say ... "In the quest for tighter groups where POA & POI 'only' come together as well as your 'ability' dope the wind ... this DATA is pretty much USELESS!" ...It is FORENSICS, THAT'S ABOUT IT.
I can make that statement with a bit more authority than the next armchair expert who comes to stir the pot because, 'I've been there & done that'!
As crude as some home-spun data can be, it is still data...it is not 'Parroted information' that carries little to no weight.

So...back to limited data collections...I believe the best data you can collect is the chronograph numbers of 'larger samples' and/or 'averaged smaller samples'...this is the easiest way to develop a 'fingerprint' of 'what ammo your tool likes & dislikes'.

Rabbit Holes can be entertaining & enlightening for the curious...but...

 

[Milo 2.5]

I have read certain chamber designs favor the Lapua designed projectiles.
But honestly unless every rifle was precision built for the exact same bolt headspace and every varience was removed between the rifles except the chamber then it is speculation alone what the difference may be.

That type of precision is above my paygrade and pocketbook and really needs as well.
Same goes for having a rifle lot tested at one of the ammo factories.
For shooting having fun I am not going to pay $20-$25 a box of 50 to shoot a .22 at paper targets.

My limit is usually $10-$12 and I will shoot a fair amount of TAC 22 and/or CCI sv as well.

But I do have rifles that seem to shoot some brands of ammo better or more accurate than others and that could be firing rounds out of the same boxes.
Still does not eliminate ammo variance itself as a possible cause but when I see the pattern clearly emerge regardless of the cause rather than try to scientifically explain it I will just feed it what it appears to prefer for a diet.

You are far from wrong here. I have had a couple rifles shoot SV remarkably well, would I shoot for score with it, NO.
We all have our own accuracy standards. I buy a lot of Lapua Center X, and now Lapua Long Range, it is 2-3 rds from every box that wrecks your groups, or chrono numbers. If you kick out your fliers, or delete the high and lows, we are shooting satisfactory ammo.
It's 22LR ammo, we don't shoot indoors, and most days it is a fight to actually figure out what works.
I tried to tune a new 13tw barrel at 300 yards on Wednesday with a EC 2 tuner, between wind and mirage, I was glad to quit. My goal was to remove the vertical aspect, which I think I did, but when I picked up my target, I found out I walked right past a setting I could not pick up because of heat waves.

 

[Tomiboy]

TAC 22 shoots sub MOA in my CZ 457 MTR at $4.30 a box

 

[bucsfan69]

SK Standard + deserves a look

This is what shoots lights out in my 457

 

[flatland1]

Over the past 10 years, I've had some SK Std+ that was pretty mediocre when it came to shooting 50yd groups, but I've also had some lots of it that shot really well for the most part - maybe a few flyers, but plenty good enough to practice with, and in some cases, to shoot groups with. I'll freely admit to being too cheap to buy Lapua Center-X blind, without lot testing, but most recently, have bought a couple of cases of Std+ & one of Rifle Match that turned out to be good enough so that I have no regrets in spending the $$$ to have a decent supply of ammo for use in my Vudoo & Shilen-barreled 457s.

 

[JG26_Irish]

SK Yellow or Red are great budget target ammo. I have had amazing results with it in some lots and certain rifles but... Lot to lot it varies and cannot be counted on to shoot in the same rifles with a new lot quite as well. So, it is not as consistent as real match ammo. I mainly use Lapua match ammo and that allows me to use SK for sight in and warm ups if I so choose. I generally practice with my match ammo since confidence in what my rifle and ammo combo is capable of is is half the battle. I always keep a few bricks of SK on hand though.

 

[SanPatHogger]

In the past couple weeks I have pushed pretty far with the Eley Outlaw. The heavier bullet also extends the range I can shoot. Last Sunday I shot 50, 100, 200, 300 and 400 yards and my dope was perfect. Groups were pretty good. My dope at 600 was 35mil. Well I can dial just over 25 and have 10 in my reticle... So I skipped 500 and went to 600 yards just because... I did not hit steel at 600, had a big piece of cardboard probably 6 feet across and the steel is either a 22 or 24 inch circle. At 600 I can't see holes in cardboard so I had to drive back and forth. At 600 I had a few bullets turn sideways and the fliers go pretty far out. But... I shot a 20 rounds and ended up with a 10 or so shot group just a little low and right on the cardboard.
My wife just ordered 2,000 rounds for me. That should get me through the rest of this year. I want to shoot a few more matches, an ELR match in September and I really want to go to the Rifles Only rimfire academy in September. Cross my fingers I have enough.
You guys are awesome. Thank you.

 

[Williwaw]

My wife just ordered 2,000 rounds for me.

Don't thank us, thank her.

 

[SanPatHogger]

Don't thank us, thank her.

I did, and do. She's awesome

 

[Csafisher]

Looking forward to that sept match. I wish the prisms weren’t so expensive lol. Going to be hard to shoot farther that 700 without one. Hopefully the wind won’t be bad. Need to find a place to check my dope at 500+

 

[Johnerz]

I use Ely Match in my Anschutz for Benchrest, SK match is good to 100, SKLong Rang Match for 300 possibly beyond, I’v never shoot 22lr past 300. SK pistol match is good for 25 as is their standard. YMMV

 

[TmisterE]

This morning I shot a couple hundred rounds of Wolf match target, about 150 Norma tac 22 a box each of Eley Team and Eley match, for me the Wolf and Norma are marginal at best, ok I guess for just slinging lead downrange. Both of the Eley shoot pretty good but I really don't like the wax they use for lube, that shit just gums up everything it comes into contact with and is a real pain in the ass to clean. after shooting a bit of the waxy shit my rifle started having issues ejecting fired rounds, never had this issue before so all the Eley made ammo is off my list. The most consistent lot to lot 22 ammo for me has been SK standard + rifle match and long range match. Never really shot enough Lapua ammo to form an opinion but I'm sure it shoots as good or better than the SK.

 

[Litzner]

For dirt cheap bulk ammo, Federal Automatch does OK in my CZ 457, but it's not great. TAC-22 for its price preforms very well in both my CZ 457 and 10/22. CCI SV is a little behind the TAC-22 for me. Moving up in cost from there Eley Club and SK anything preform very well for me, both being more consistent than TAC-22 or CCI usually but costing 50-100% more. So I usually practice with TAC-22 or CCI, then do my matches with SK. I have been shying away from buy any ammo that is more than $10 a box on principle, but eventually I may break down.

One thing to note that I found on SK though. SK powder seems to be more temperature sensitive then most others I have tried. Even +10 degrees F difference can cause a shot to be 2" high at 150+ yards. I haven't tested it in the cold yet, but my guess is that it may be shooting pretty soft at that point, which also lines up with what one of the PRS veterans I shoot with was telling me about SK.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

 

[doninreno]

Well, I have to agree that a couple of years ago, the SK pistol match shot in rifles was really hard to beat, especially at that price point. Having run out of that ammo a while back after winning a lot of matches (and apparently they have changed their production a bunch), we've been trying a lot of different stuff and I can NOT say either way that the top ELEY stuff is superior to the top LAPUA stuff. I've had my rifles tested at the LAPUA facility (and, yes, I was there to watch) and did purchase some ammo, but to no real end! I've found that different rifles have different opinions on all this....SOOO I'm gonna have to say SHOOT SOME and see how it works in YOUR individual rifles! Then, if you can, if it shoots well buy some more of that ammo and THAT PARTICULAR lot number if you can. I believe this because years ago I tested about 15 kinds of ammo (remember when you could buy ammo at, say, Ace Hardware?) and found that (SURPRISE!!) the bulk boxes of Federal stuff that I bought at WALMART shot best in my gun!! Needless to say, I went back and bought all of that lot number I could get my hands on and commenced to win many state matches and placed quite well in national matches (as in the top three). Sadly, I eventually ran out of that stuff and could never find anything that could compare.

 

[HPIguy]

grab some Center X and have a suitable ammo in 10 minutes.

Eh, I had two fliers in a match on Saturday with Center X. Damn rimfire, even good ammo isn't a guarantee.

 

[sirhrmechanic]

My 52 and my old Soviet Biathlon rifle both love this stuff.

It’s off the shelf CCI standard and is consistent as all get up. And a brick is not spendy if you want to try it out.

The most expensive .22 ammo is not always the best .22 ammo! Interestingly.

Sirhr

 

[Milo 2.5]

Eh, I had two fliers in a match on Saturday with Center X. Damn rimfire, even good ammo isn't a guarantee.

Maybe I should have said find the right Center X
I seem to spend a lot of money on ammo, and too much time validating it. Being there is nothing on the line when I shoot, a flier or miss just costs the actual price of that rd.

 

[HPIguy]

Maybe I should have said find the right Center X
I seem to spend a lot of money on ammo, and too much time validating it. Being there is nothing on the line when I shoot, a flier or miss just costs the actual price of that rd.

Yep, wish I had more time to do just that. And a damn range that was closer. And more guns, and....