Rifle Scopes What's the best power rating I need for 1000 yd distance accuracy?

[Fx51LP308]

Having begun the process of modifying my new RPR .308 win, I'm now in the market for a good scope. It will be MRAD with Mil reticle, FFP. But the question I have is, what is the minimum magnification power I need to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds? I know I probably should go 6.5CM or .338 Lapua as a load for that, but I want to try .308 first. If I choose to go farther than 1000 yards, I know I'll need to upgrade scopes for greater accuracy. Right now, I'm just trying to save a few $$$ and get a scope that's a bit more economical but still gives me the accuracy I need.

What power level (eg. 5x 25 etc.) should I have to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds?

Thanks much!

 

[SRPowah]

Thank god you didn't start with 338LM, as you have a lot to learn. lol Simply saying a certain magnification is best isn't that easy due to environmental conditions or tactical requirements. To an extent, some are actually more precise with less magnification.

Pick a price range so we can recommend optics within that range. Expect to get a 5-25ish just so you can play in the range and figure out what works best for you.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Thank god you didn't start with 338LM, as you have a lot to learn. lol Simply saying a certain magnification is best isn't that easy due to environmental conditions or tactical requirements. To an extent, some are actually more precise with less magnification.

Pick a price range so we can recommend optics within that range. Expect to get a 5-25ish just so you can play in the range and figure out what works best for you.

For price range, I'd say under $1000.00 for what I described earlier (MRAD, MIL ret, FFP etc.) + rings and flip cap covers.

 

[Denys]

That all depends on what you mean by being "as accurate as possible". For example, I shoot F-class, almost exclusively at 1000 yards. I do this with a .308 Winchester and a target where the X-ring is 5 inches in diameter and the 10-ring is 10 inches. The riflescope on my match F-TR rifle is a March-X 10-60X56 HM, which I run at 50X all the time The vast majority of F-class shooters will run scopes with at least mid-30x top ends, but usually more. Of course when the mirage gets bad, riflescopes with inferior optics need to be dialed back, but I keep going at 50X.

I should also mention that virtually all serious F-class shooters (and probably BR shooters also, but I do not know that for sure) run SFP scopes in MOA simply because of the accuracy requirements and the fast the target face is MOA-based.

So again, define "as accurate as possible"

 

[Fx51LP308]

So again, define "as accurate as possible"

I would say, "being able to score bullseye hits at 1000 yard targets consistantly in the 70-80% range. " I know I'll need to work up to that, and I'll use whatever targets are optimal for it.

I've been told I should go for MRAD and not MOA and FFP, not SFP. To quote Steven Crowder, "Change my mind!"

 

[pmclaine]

.308 at 1000 yards.....

10X works fine.

Ive done it with 4.5X

Ive used a 25X

Going forward if buying another variable it will be 3-15X. Plenty of magnification and you can save on the size/cost of higher mag.

 

[acudaowner]

need is in the eye of who ever is buying I love 40 x have shot with less I love seeing the details , but I am a mag whore I want as much as I can get and I don't wanna over pay for it . I went 5 x50 covering everything in between and still payed 1/2 the cost of my friends 5x25 .

 

[madcalfe]

i shoot out to 1100 yards regularly and use a 3-18x and only ever use it maybe on 14x

 

[SRPowah]

I've been told I should go for MRAD and not MOA and FFP, not SFP. To quote Steven Crowder, "Change my mind!"

The problem is MRAD and FFP rule tactical shooting, but the shooting you are describing is benchrest which is a completely different discipline ruled by MOA and SFP.

 

[fdkay]

As you can see, you are going to get a variety of responses.
If you are ringing steel, that is one thig, if you are shooting for groups that is another, if you are shooting for the X ring, that is, again, another matter.
If I were in your shoes I would look at the Midas tac 5-25, the Sightmark Latitude 6.5-25 (NOT the triple duty).
Another option is the Vortex Venom or Strike eagle 5-25 scopes.
These are all budget friendly optics that are well designed.
If you aren't in a tremendous hurry the Arken 6-24 is a good bet as well/

 

[Fx51LP308]

The problem is MRAD and FFP rule tactical shooting, but the shooting you are describing is benchrest which is a completely different discipline ruled by MOA and SFP.

Could you define "tactical shooting" for me, in your own words?

 

[Jefe's Dope]

Can be done w/ as low as an 8 or 10x but I'd suggest a minimum of 20x w/ 25-30x being preferred. Also, the quality of your glass will trump any magnification. IOW, go w/ good glass over high magnification. You don't want to go too high as you want a low end with enough field of view to find your target in the scope. It's an entirely different world behind the scope vs. binoculars.

I'd suggest a quality scope in the 5-25 range. Buy the best you can afford and if you stick with the right brand and model, you should be able to sell it quickly and for most of what you paid. It'll cost you up front but you'll get most of your money back when you sell it vs. a cheap scope that no one really wants to buy. ZCO, Kahles, Nightforce on the premium side. Athlon on the budget side. Vortex is generally a good bet as well.

 

[Denys]

I would say, "being able to score bullseye hits at 1000 yard targets consistantly in the 70-80% range. " I know I'll need to work up to that, and I'll use whatever targets are optimal for it.

I've been told I should go for MRAD and not MOA and FFP, not SFP. To quote Steven Crowder, "Change my mind!"

I have no intention of changing your mind. I think the parameters you are considering are correct for you. I'm sure the bullseye you are looking at is bigger than 5 inches. My point was that if you wanted to go for something really small, you need to be able to see it.

Now, I used to shoot with iron sights at 1000 yards but the sights were made to fit the aiming black, which is 44 inches in diameter. That's also what is used with the 4.5X scopes on Service Rifles and the other low power. They just center on the aiming black and pull the trigger and correct for wind when the shot is scored. This will not be the setup you will be using, I'm sure. So you need to be able to see the bullseye and that's why I was asking for "how accurate." It's all on the size of the target. You can't hit what you can't see, usually.

 

[SRPowah]

Could you define "tactical shooting" for me, in your own words?

Precisely engaging targets at any distance quickly and efficiently within your weapon system's capabilities.

 

[Fx51LP308]

Precisely engaging targets at any distance quickly and efficiently within your weapon system's capabilities.

In that case, then I may as well stick with MRAD/Mil ret. as what your're describing is the shorter term "end goal." Longer term goals will come later.

 

[Holliday]

I started with a fixed 10x swfa and had no problem making hits on steel 100+ yards with my then .308

 

[RayDBonz]

A scope has nothing to do with accuracy. It only helps you see what you are shooting better.

Look here for a used one. You will likely upgrade at some point anyway once you figure out what you need and what works for you.
A general rule is 1x per 100 yards, so you would want at least 10x at the top end. From there select a reticle you like.

 

[chzhd]

I have a 7-35 ATACR sitting on my AI and the only time I am over 15-18x is when I am spotting for a friend or looking for holes in paper. I just picked up a 3-12x to put on my R700 (6.5CM) that I am planning on shooting to 1k.

 

[fdkay]

I started with a fixed 10x swfa and had no problem making hits on steel 100+ yards with my then .308

You were able to make hits at 100???
Color me impressed

 

[Matches Malone]

I started with a fixed 10x swfa and had no problem making hits on steel 100+ yards

 

[Hutch_WV]

Best bang for buck is Vortex Strike Eagle5-25. Has all the features and pretty damn good glass. My $0.02

 

[smoothy8500]

I started with a fixed 10x swfa and had no problem making hits on steel 100+ yards with my then .308

Hehehe, you forgot a zero.

My first scope shooting 1K was that model too. I think a lot of people started with those SWFA's.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Just got back from Ridgway PA. My Vortex Viper worked just fine and I had no issue seeing / tagging iron coyotes at 1000 at less than 24x magnification. I shoot a local benchrest league and that extra magnification comes in handy.

 

[Holliday]

You must have eyes like mine, I have trouble with a Leupold VX-3i LRP 4.5-14x50mm hitting stuff at 350 yards.

Ha! Left a zero off. I was hitting steel out to 1160 yards with that 10x swfa. Seeing what I am typing on these e-devices is another matter......

 

[clcustom1911]

Having begun the process of modifying my new RPR .308 win, I'm now in the market for a good scope. It will be MRAD with Mil reticle, FFP. But the question I have is, what is the minimum magnification power I need to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds? I know I probably should go 6.5CM or .338 Lapua as a load for that, but I want to try .308 first. If I choose to go farther than 1000 yards, I know I'll need to upgrade scopes for greater accuracy. Right now, I'm just trying to save a few $$$ and get a scope that's a bit more economical but still gives me the accuracy I need.

What power level (eg. 5x 25 etc.) should I have to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds?

Thanks much!

For years I did 308 to 1100 with a fixed SWFA 10x42m mildot (MOA turrets... ohhhh the humanity!) on a 9"x30" plate on the regular. Then I got my 3.5-21x56 (Bushnell HDMR w/H59 Reticle) scope... found that I rarely went above 15-18x even when going out to 1500y. Same with my Vortex Viper PST 2 3-15x44, and Leopold Mk4 6.5-20.

Even for PRS type stuff, I typically never go above 8-10x so I can keep a decent field of view when transitioning between targets from 200 to 700-800. Higher power is kinda more for positive target ID when hunting (animals of the 4 legged or 2 legged varieties), spotting hits/calling corrections.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I see you're local to Tampa.
What range are you planning on shooting at? JTAC, Manatee or do you have access to private land?

Shooting paper at 1k for groups is pretty much F-class.
They mostly use very high magnification, SFP, MOA based optics. They zero for the range and rarely touch the dials.

If your intention is steel shooting, then you'll want FFP and MIL simply because that's the common language, and you'll be turning that elevation knob up and down.
Lots of guys come out to JTAC and have MOA optics, and there's nothing wrong with that.
The issue is when people begin talking windage and elevation holds, it's like talking English vs French.

If a group of shooters are all using MOA, then they are speaking the same language.
I've spotted for people shooting MOA and calling the shots requires conversion from my MIL to their MOA, unless they miss by exactly a half or whole MIL.



Let us know WHAT you are wanting to concentrate on and we can better steer you towards the correct optics.

 

[RRW]

To put it in perspective. when Rob Furlong made his 2430 metre record breaking shot in Afghanistan, the scope on his Tac 50 was a fixed 16 power Mark 4.

 

[Holliday]

For years I did 308 to 1100 with a fixed SWFA 10x42m mildot (MOA turrets... ohhhh the humanity!)

Yep mine was MOA turret will mil dot reticle or as I like call it satan’s handmaiden .... . That .308 did shoot though.

 

[Fx51LP308]

I see you're local to Tampa.
What range are you planning on shooting at? JTAC, Manatee or do you have access to private land?

More than likely, JTAC. But that may not come until September, when I can save up enough for the membership fee. I have to get the rifle built and customized first.

Shooting paper at 1k for groups is pretty much F-class.
They mostly use very high magnification, SFP, MOA based optics. They zero for the range and rarely touch the dials.

If your intention is steel shooting, then you'll want FFP and MIL simply because that's the common language, and you'll be turning that elevation knob up and down.

That is my intention.

Lots of guys come out to JTAC and have MOA optics, and there's nothing wrong with that.
The issue is when people begin talking windage and elevation holds, it's like talking English vs French.

If a group of shooters are all using MOA, then they are speaking the same language.
I've spotted for people shooting MOA and calling the shots requires conversion from my MIL to their MOA, unless they miss by exactly a half or whole MIL.



Let us know WHAT you are wanting to concentrate on and we can better steer you towards the correct optics.

My initial "interim" goal is the "tactical shooting" as described above. Therefore, MRAD/Mil reticle FFP. Probably a 5x-25. We'll see.

 

[Holliday]

You were able to make hits at 100???
Color me impressed

 

[Fx51LP308]

Having begun the process of modifying my new RPR .308 win, I'm now in the market for a good scope. It will be MRAD with Mil reticle, FFP. But the question I have is, what is the minimum magnification power I need to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds? I know I probably should go 6.5CM or .338 Lapua as a load for that, but I want to try .308 first. If I choose to go farther than 1000 yards, I know I'll need to upgrade scopes for greater accuracy. Right now, I'm just trying to save a few $$$ and get a scope that's a bit more economical but still gives me the accuracy I need.

What power level (eg. 5x 25 etc.) should I have to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds?

Thanks much!

Thanks all, for the great feedback! It looks like I'll be going for the 5x-25 MRAD/Mill ret. FFP scope, and saving up for that (currently evaluating glass for them).

Now, another question, and one that has bugged me about my marksmanship, in general. Due to a childhood injury to my rt. eye, there has been some paralysis in the upward movement of it (it can move side to side and down, but not up). My left eye is unaffected. If I am to look up, I'll see double of what is in front of me. Furthermore, over time, that rt. eye has developed a 1.25 diopter astigmatism, yielding me slightly nearsighted. This is easily corrected with glasses. I have a long distance pair as well as a "3-5ft" concentration pair for being in front of my computers. I simply don't do bi-focals (primarily because of the movement issue) or contacts.

Is this condition going to cause me any issues (in re: using scopes) that can't be corrected with glasses or should I not worry?

Thanks!

 

[fdkay]

Thanks all, for the great feedback! It looks like I'll be going for the 5x-25 MRAD/Mill ret. FFP scope, and saving up for that (currently evaluating glass for them).

Now, another question, and one that has bugged me about my marksmanship, in general. Due to a childhood injury to my rt. eye, there has been some paralysis in the upward movement of it (it can move side to side and down, but not up). My left eye is unaffected. If I am to look up, I'll see double of what is in front of me. Furthermore, over time, that rt. eye has developed a 1.25 diopter astigmatism, yielding me slightly nearsighted. This is easily corrected with glasses. I have a long distance pair as well as a "3-5ft" concentration pair for being in front of my computers. I simply don't do bi-focals (primarily because of the movement issue) or contacts.

Is this condition going to cause me any issues (in re: using scopes) that can't be corrected with glasses or should I not worry?

Thanks!

Since I've never heard of that condition, I can't answer for you, but I can tell you this, the natural position for shooting a rifle entails looking through the top edge of a pair of glasses.
Some of this can be mitigated with an adjustable cheek piece so your eye is aligned differently, but I think positional shooting would still be an isse.
Might be better off learning to shoot your rifle left handed.

 

[Holliday]

Thanks all, for the great feedback! It looks like I'll be going for the 5x-25 MRAD/Mill ret. FFP scope, and saving up for that (currently evaluating glass for them).

Now, another question, and one that has bugged me about my marksmanship, in general. Due to a childhood injury to my rt. eye, there has been some paralysis in the upward movement of it (it can move side to side and down, but not up). My left eye is unaffected. If I am to look up, I'll see double of what is in front of me. Furthermore, over time, that rt. eye has developed a 1.25 diopter astigmatism, yielding me slightly nearsighted. This is easily corrected with glasses. I have a long distance pair as well as a "3-5ft" concentration pair for being in front of my computers. I simply don't do bi-focals (primarily because of the movement issue) or contacts.

Is this condition going to cause me any issues (in re: using scopes) that can't be corrected with glasses or should I not worry?

Thanks!

I have glaucoma which has left me blind in one eye, vision issues in my good eye. I wear bifocals and struggle sometimes but do my best. The main reason I don’t do competitions. Reading the turrets can be a problem in certain conditions so I sometimes count clicks for short dial ups.

Though I have not been a fan of the tree reticle, it occured to me that utilizing this would help greatly when I am having issues seeing the fine etching on the knob. The whole white on black lettering really sucks. My PST 2 has the tree reticle.

On my hunting rifle I use a label that is black numbering on a white background from https://customturretsystems.com/

The difference in ability to see black on white is outstanding. The labels are great qualty and outstandingly accurate. You’ll forget its a label. I am planning on doing the same on my PST Gen 2 but just mimicking the mil graduation as apposed to yardage on my hunting scope.

So, in short you will adapt......Remember one key thing though, you “see” with your brain (visual cortex) not your eyes.

 

[Holliday]

Since I've never heard of that condition, I can't answer for you, but I can tell you this, the natural position for shooting a rifle entails looking through the top edge of a pair of glasses.
Some of this can be mitigated with an adjustable cheek piece so your eye is aligned differently, but I think positional shooting would still be an isse.
Might be better off learning to shoot your rifle left handed.

The other day I was shooting into the sun. Wearing a cap and bifocals, I would lift my head to see through the bottom of my glasses which would in turn lift my hat allowing the sun to blind me. Very frustrating. Again had I thought about my tree reticle at the time.....

 

[clcustom1911]

Yep mine was MOA turret will mil dot reticle or as I like call it satan’s handmaiden .... . That .308 did shoot though.

Mine was mounted on my "that gun shouldn't shoot that good".... super classy Sáváge 10FP, 26" in a Bell & Carlson Medalist Tactical stock. That rifle could do no wrong with 175 Matchkings just off the lands and IMR 4064.

 

[SeanP]

Most of the customer who buy from us go with a 5-25x but really a 3-15x is plenty. Last week I shot 1000yds with 5x just to see if I could do it. It wasn't pleasant, but it's doable.

 

[Mike Casselton]

What modifications are you having done to your RPR?
Most of them shoot pretty darn good right out of the box.

Also, JTAC has less than 80 membership slots left open.
If you're saving for the annual membership, you could just go monthly instead and it'll cost just a couple bucks more. It will allow you to ensure a membership slot and you could come out and try some different stuff before spending money on something you're unsure of.

BTW, there is a XRS-2 in the classifieds for $1100 shipped.
The price is a steal on a bullet proof optic.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Most of the customer who buy from us go with a 5-25x but really a 3-15x is plenty. Last week I shot 1000yds with 5x just to see if I could do it. It wasn't pleasant, but it's doable.

Sean,
While I mostly agree with what you wrote.
However, I really must point out that people with vision issues or just poor vision in general really need more magnification.

In my younger years, my vision was better than 20/15. In fact it was closer to 20/10.

At 59, I still have great vision, but one of my younger shooting partners has terrible vision and cannot see stuff at 30x that I can make out at 8-10×.


Like you, I can use 10x at 1k without issue.
15x is much better, yet I still find myself dialing up to 30x, even for 1k shooting.

I just like being able to see things up close. You probably do too.

Would I handicap myself at 1k with 15x?
No.

Does the 30x make it easier?
Not for me, but for Dan, it absolutely makes it doable instead of a near impossibility.

Age and visual acuity make a big difference when recommending optics.

 

[308pirate]

You must have eyes like mine, I have trouble with a Leupold VX-3i LRP 4.5-14x50mm hitting stuff at 350 yards.

Unless you're legally blind, It's not your eyes

Oldest excuse in the book

 

[...]

Having begun the process of modifying my new RPR .308 win, I'm now in the market for a good scope. It will be MRAD with Mil reticle, FFP. But the question I have is, what is the minimum magnification power I need to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds? I know I probably should go 6.5CM or .338 Lapua as a load for that, but I want to try .308 first. If I choose to go farther than 1000 yards, I know I'll need to upgrade scopes for greater accuracy. Right now, I'm just trying to save a few $$$ and get a scope that's a bit more economical but still gives me the accuracy I need.

What power level (eg. 5x 25 etc.) should I have to be as accurate as possible to 1000 yds?

Thanks much!

....what are you shooting at....?

your "minimum" is going to be different depending on whether you are shooting at jack rabbits or Volkswagens

 

[smoothy8500]

Oldest excuse in the book

Even my eye doctor says this.

If the scope's diopter and parallax/focus are fully correct, any visual issues as you get older are due to one's perception. It boils down to mental acuity and the aging process. The high magnification becomes a crutch that we think we need.

 

[308pirate]

Shooting paper at 1k for groups is pretty much F-class.
They mostly use very high magnification, SFP, MOA based optics. They zero for the range and rarely touch the dials.

This is somewhat off topic to the OP's question but I'm still going to say it because I want the OP (which appears to be a new shooter, at least to long range marksmanship) to not leave with incorrect information. Some of what is above in the quote is wrong. Some of it grossly incorrect.

Shooting paper for groups, at any distance, is most definitely not F Class. That's Benchrest competition.

F class is shot for score. Group size is irrelevant and not measured.

F class shooters do not "zero for range and rarely touch the dials". F class matches take place at the following regulation distances: 200, 300, 500, 600, 800, and 1000 yards. Some matches shoot all the strings of fire at one distance, others have multiple distances. F class shooters mostly zero at 100 or 200 yards and dial exact elevation to get center of target impact at whatever yard line they're shooting from. Most F class shooters hold for wind, but even then there are occasions where it is wise to dial for the prevailing wind and adjust hold for shifts.

Anyway, wanted to set the record straight for the new guy.

 

[Mike Casselton]

This is somewhat off topic to the OP's question but I'm still going to say it because I want the OP (which appears to be a new shooter, at least to long range marksmanship) to not leave with incorrect information. Some of what is above in the quote is wrong. Some of it grossly incorrect.

Shooting paper for groups, at any distance, is most definitely not F Class. That's Benchrest competition.

F class is shot for score. Group size is irrelevant and not measured.

F class shooters do not "zero for range and rarely touch the dials". F class matches take place at the following regulation distances: 200, 300, 500, 600, 800, and 1000 yards. Some matches shoot all the strings of fire at one distance, others have multiple distances. F class shooters mostly zero at 100 or 200 yards and dial exact elevation to get center of target impact at whatever yard line they're shooting from. Most F class shooters hold for wind, but even then there are occasions where it is wise to dial for the prevailing wind and adjust hold for shifts.

Anyway, wanted to set the record straight for the new guy.

Thanks for the correction.
I sometimes get caught up trying to finish my response and doing it by phone only adds to my ability to leave out the correct info.

I criss crossed two shooting disciplines.

 

[Fx51LP308]

What modifications are you having done to your RPR?
Most of them shoot pretty darn good right out of the box.

Nothing yet, so far... parts are on order and coming in. But I am looking at:

1) Magpul PRS Gen 3 stock;
2) Timney 2 stage trigger;
3) Catalyst Arms (Mag release extension and enhanced bolt knob);
4) Harris 9-13" Swiveling Bipod.
5) Catalyst Arms Fast Track Hand guard (for mounting the bipod and other things);

Other minor things things as I can afford them including:

1) Anarchy Outdoors TItanium Bolt shroud (the factory one is quite loose); their heat treated firing pin and (potentially) the bolt handle;
3) Apex bag Rider;
Magpul MOE Pistol Grip.

Also, JTAC has less than 80 membership slots left open.
If you're saving for the annual membership, you could just go monthly instead and it'll cost just a couple bucks more. It will allow you to ensure a membership slot and you could come out and try some different stuff before spending money on something you're unsure of.

I'll consider it. Do you think I'm safe over the next 30-60 days? If not, then it may be a while before I can get there.

 

[Holliday]

Mine was mounted on my "that gun shouldn't shoot that good".... super classy Sáváge 10FP, 26" in a Bell & Carlson Medalist Tactical stock. That rifle could do no wrong with 175 Matchkings just off the lands and IMR 4064.

Mine was a Savage 10fp 24” shooting 155 Lapua Scenars at 2902 fps. In the end it was in an AI chassis with a Razor Gen 2. Smoked the barrel around 5k rnds and went to 6.5 cm.

 

[SeanP]

Sean,
While I mostly agree with what you wrote.
However, I really must point out that people with vision issues or just poor vision in general really need more magnification.

In my younger years, my vision was better than 20/15. In fact it was closer to 20/10.

At 59, I still have great vision, but one of my younger shooting partners has terrible vision and cannot see stuff at 30x that I can make out at 8-10×.


Like you, I can use 10x at 1k without issue.
15x is much better, yet I still find myself dialing up to 30x, even for 1k shooting.

I just like being able to see things up close. You probably do too.

Would I handicap myself at 1k with 15x?
No.

Does the 30x make it easier?
Not for me, but for Dan, it absolutely makes it doable instead of a near impossibility.

Age and visual acuity make a big difference when recommending optics.

Very true. My eyes are good for now and many of my older/visually impaired customers prefer higher magnification. I should also note that having a wider field of view at lower power makes it easier to see your bullet impacts if you don't have someone spotting your shots.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Nothing yet, so far... parts are on order and coming in. But I am looking at:

1) Magpul PRS Gen 3 stock;
2) Timney 2 stage trigger;
3) Catalyst Arms (Mag release extension and enhanced bolt knob);
4) Harris 9-13" Swiveling Bipod.
5) Catalyst Arms Fast Track Hand guard (for mounting the bipod and other things);

Other minor things things as I can afford them including:

1) Anarchy Outdoors TItanium Bolt shroud (the factory one is quite loose); their heat treated firing pin and (potentially) the bolt handle;
3) Apex bag Rider;
Magpul MOE Pistol Grip.



I'll consider it. Do you think I'm safe over the next 30-60 days? If not, then it may be a while before I can get there.

I'd contact Ben or Eric and find out how many memberships remain open.
Either way, you'll have to go through the class before you can become a member

 

[Fx51LP308]

I'd contact Ben or Eric and find out how many memberships remain open.
Either way, you'll have to go through the class before you can become a member

Are either on the Hide, and if so, do you have their forum names? It's OK if not, I'll just call the number on the website.

 

[z71rat]

Working with a budget, but get you all the features you are needing, except FFP, I would highly recommend an Arken Optics 6-24x50mm MOA to you. They can be had for $449!!

My understanding, they have those in stock right now. I have the 4-16 version, and it is simply badass!!

DK

 

[Mike Casselton]

Are either on the Hide, and if so, do you have their forum names? It's OK if not, I'll just call the number on the website.

No, they aren't Hide members.