I loaded up 10 rounds to fireform some brass the other day 4 out of the 10 didn't go off. I pulled the bullet dumped the poweder and punched out the primers. Loaded the rounds back up exactly as they was but with different primers and kaboom. I was telling my smith about the situation and he said he had recently gotten some that didn't go off. I've only been reloading for about 2 years but he said he has gotten more bad primers in the last 6-8 months than in 40 years of reloading. This is far fetch but do you think becuase of the shortage awhile ago that they "cranked" up the plant and let some QC stuff go unnoticed. Mine and his primers were both bought after the shortage. OR at least after I could find them again. Really got me worried now as I use these rifles to hunt with, 1 bad primer could cost me the animal of a lifetime. Any suggestions.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
What's the deal with bad primers
- Thread starter summitsitter
- Start date
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
One thing to keep in mind with primers:
The shipping containers are not air or water tight.
(This is presumably to minimize damage in case of ignition.)
The down side is that whatever package of primers you get has been subjected to unknown environmental conditions prior to you receiving them.
That is why I typically purchase at least a case of 5K at a time.
Whatever I receive has been subjected to the same conditions and should perform identically.
Primers are very resilient and will not be rendered inoperable by high humidity, but that does not mean that they won't be affected.
One thing to keep in mind with primers:
The shipping containers are not air or water tight.
(This is presumably to minimize damage in case of ignition.)
The down side is that whatever package of primers you get has been subjected to unknown environmental conditions prior to you receiving them.
That is why I typically purchase at least a case of 5K at a time.
Whatever I receive has been subjected to the same conditions and should perform identically.
Primers are very resilient and will not be rendered inoperable by high humidity, but that does not mean that they won't be affected.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
I have been reloading since 1983. I could not even begin to count the number of large pistol, small rifle, large rifle, and large rifle magnum primers I have loaded and shot. In that time I have had one round that I loaded that did not fire--and on that one I put the primer in backwards.
I readily admit, I am no rocket scientist.
I have NEVER encountered a bad primer.
What brand are you using?
I have been reloading since 1983. I could not even begin to count the number of large pistol, small rifle, large rifle, and large rifle magnum primers I have loaded and shot. In that time I have had one round that I loaded that did not fire--and on that one I put the primer in backwards.
I readily admit, I am no rocket scientist.
I have NEVER encountered a bad primer.
What brand are you using?
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
Dr. Phil is right on the money. Primer storage is CRITICAL to ignition reliability. Primers and humidity do not go together.
The allowable misfire rate in the primer industry is one in a million and that is a high number.
There have been incidences where oil got in primer mix at factory. Several LC lots were destroyed because of this.
The other thing that causes misfires is insufficient striker energy or velocity. The only ways to check this are with copper holders designed for such. It is expensive to buy the holders and the coppers and the inspection gage but in the long run it pays for itself. Luckily I am set up for 5.56, 7.62 and 30.06 to check striker energy.
The other requires disassembly of the bolt and removing the striker spring and measuring the free length against a new spring. If spring has become shorter it has lost available energy.
If you have a new rifle you can pull bolt down, measure and record the free length of the striker and periodically pull it down and remeasure. Spring engineers will tell you a properly made spring will never take a set. Only way to know if one is properly made is to compress it/use it and check occasionally for the set condition.
Make sure the striker itself is clean and there is no crud in the striker tunnel to slow it down.
I have seen another wierd thing. A round is fired and the primer blanks (cuts a nice round little hole out where striker hit) and it goes back into striker opening and thus binds the striker from full pass through. This is hard to diagnose. I had it happen to me once and have seen it happen to others a couple more times.
On one bolt gun I pulled down the striker spring was broken in two places ! ! !
Normally striker protrusion on 30 cal is min .040" and max of .060". In other words min protrusion coupled with max headspace and marginal striker energy do not play well together.
Next thing that tends to produce misfires is off center striker hits. Add this to the above mix and things get iffy real fast. Don't forget crud in striker tunnel.
Frankford Arsenal did a several million round study on ignition reliability back in late 50s?. The result was a .020" offset of the actual indent measured from the exact center of the striker nose to the center of the primer which had no effect on ignition reliability. Once it goes past .020" offset misfires went up. You can't look at a indent crater to determine this. It takes a measuring microscope to identify the dead center of the striker indent. I was lucky and found one on ebay.
Last I heard the industry standard is .030" offset or half the diameter of the striker so when I look at a used rifle first thing I do is pull bolt and look for striker indent centrality. If it is way out it depends on what it is. Some rifles this can be "corrected" on, others you are screwed.
A number of long range shooters change out striker springs at beginning of every season because a marginal energy striker is known to give marginal ignition. It generally shows up as vertical stringing at long range and may present itself as reverse primer flow when the primer material is trying to go into the striker opening on the bolt face.
I had this problem on a Rem 7615. I checked striker energy and got I think it was .015 indent on copper. NOTE THE INDENT ON A FIRED PRIMER IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS FOR DETERMINING STRIKER ENERGY. On the M16 the spec calls for .022" indent on copper.
When I sent the rifle back I told them it was showing indications of reverse flow and they did not fix it. Thusly I got hold of Wolf springs, got new striker spring, changed it out and the problem immediatley went away. There were also other problems with 7615 I had to "fix".
If anyone wants to see the details on this whole series check out
http://www.eotacforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=50302
Dr. Phil is right on the money. Primer storage is CRITICAL to ignition reliability. Primers and humidity do not go together.
The allowable misfire rate in the primer industry is one in a million and that is a high number.
There have been incidences where oil got in primer mix at factory. Several LC lots were destroyed because of this.
The other thing that causes misfires is insufficient striker energy or velocity. The only ways to check this are with copper holders designed for such. It is expensive to buy the holders and the coppers and the inspection gage but in the long run it pays for itself. Luckily I am set up for 5.56, 7.62 and 30.06 to check striker energy.
The other requires disassembly of the bolt and removing the striker spring and measuring the free length against a new spring. If spring has become shorter it has lost available energy.
If you have a new rifle you can pull bolt down, measure and record the free length of the striker and periodically pull it down and remeasure. Spring engineers will tell you a properly made spring will never take a set. Only way to know if one is properly made is to compress it/use it and check occasionally for the set condition.
Make sure the striker itself is clean and there is no crud in the striker tunnel to slow it down.
I have seen another wierd thing. A round is fired and the primer blanks (cuts a nice round little hole out where striker hit) and it goes back into striker opening and thus binds the striker from full pass through. This is hard to diagnose. I had it happen to me once and have seen it happen to others a couple more times.
On one bolt gun I pulled down the striker spring was broken in two places ! ! !
Normally striker protrusion on 30 cal is min .040" and max of .060". In other words min protrusion coupled with max headspace and marginal striker energy do not play well together.
Next thing that tends to produce misfires is off center striker hits. Add this to the above mix and things get iffy real fast. Don't forget crud in striker tunnel.
Frankford Arsenal did a several million round study on ignition reliability back in late 50s?. The result was a .020" offset of the actual indent measured from the exact center of the striker nose to the center of the primer which had no effect on ignition reliability. Once it goes past .020" offset misfires went up. You can't look at a indent crater to determine this. It takes a measuring microscope to identify the dead center of the striker indent. I was lucky and found one on ebay.
Last I heard the industry standard is .030" offset or half the diameter of the striker so when I look at a used rifle first thing I do is pull bolt and look for striker indent centrality. If it is way out it depends on what it is. Some rifles this can be "corrected" on, others you are screwed.
A number of long range shooters change out striker springs at beginning of every season because a marginal energy striker is known to give marginal ignition. It generally shows up as vertical stringing at long range and may present itself as reverse primer flow when the primer material is trying to go into the striker opening on the bolt face.
I had this problem on a Rem 7615. I checked striker energy and got I think it was .015 indent on copper. NOTE THE INDENT ON A FIRED PRIMER IS ABSOLUTELY USELESS FOR DETERMINING STRIKER ENERGY. On the M16 the spec calls for .022" indent on copper.
When I sent the rifle back I told them it was showing indications of reverse flow and they did not fix it. Thusly I got hold of Wolf springs, got new striker spring, changed it out and the problem immediatley went away. There were also other problems with 7615 I had to "fix".
If anyone wants to see the details on this whole series check out
http://www.eotacforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=50302
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
That does pose the question of what rifle are you using and caliber Summit? Hummer makes a good point about the striker. If you are having ignition problems I would take it to a qualified smith for diagnostics. On occassion Ive heard of people getting some bad primers but I personally have never experienced this issue. Give us all the info from your reloads plus components and equipment and rifle and maybe we can figure something out without you having to spend money at a smith.
That does pose the question of what rifle are you using and caliber Summit? Hummer makes a good point about the striker. If you are having ignition problems I would take it to a qualified smith for diagnostics. On occassion Ive heard of people getting some bad primers but I personally have never experienced this issue. Give us all the info from your reloads plus components and equipment and rifle and maybe we can figure something out without you having to spend money at a smith.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
The problem will be finding a smith with the equipment and knowledge to do it as it is not taught in gunsmith schools.
The copper holders were 165.00 15 years ago and I think coppers are a buck each now.
I have known three other smiths who knew this, two are dead one is in Wheatland Wyoming.
The problem will be finding a smith with the equipment and knowledge to do it as it is not taught in gunsmith schools.
The copper holders were 165.00 15 years ago and I think coppers are a buck each now.
I have known three other smiths who knew this, two are dead one is in Wheatland Wyoming.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have known three other smiths who knew this, two are dead one is in Wheatland Wyoming.</div></div>
DON'T befriend Hummer!! You'll DIE!!!
Seriously, great post, sir. It has been a pleasure gaining your acquaintance on these Boards and in our coupla phone calls last year. We need more people like him with specific, test-based tech knowledge.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have known three other smiths who knew this, two are dead one is in Wheatland Wyoming.</div></div>
DON'T befriend Hummer!! You'll DIE!!!
Seriously, great post, sir. It has been a pleasure gaining your acquaintance on these Boards and in our coupla phone calls last year. We need more people like him with specific, test-based tech knowledge.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
Okay I don't think it's my rifle I pretty sure it's the primers. I loaded up 10rd for my neighbor to shoot in his 308. 2 didn't go off. I used the same primers.
Now for my setup
WW virgin brass
CCI LR primers
144 gr bullet (something cheap I got from CowboyBart to fireform with)
51 gr. of RL22
Gun is chambered in 6.5-05AI
Rifle is a remington action, Shilen Select match barrel, Speed lock firing pin assembly, with the action trued.
Maybe this info will help but I'm pretty sure it's the primers since it did it on my buddy gun also.
Okay I don't think it's my rifle I pretty sure it's the primers. I loaded up 10rd for my neighbor to shoot in his 308. 2 didn't go off. I used the same primers.
Now for my setup
WW virgin brass
CCI LR primers
144 gr bullet (something cheap I got from CowboyBart to fireform with)
51 gr. of RL22
Gun is chambered in 6.5-05AI
Rifle is a remington action, Shilen Select match barrel, Speed lock firing pin assembly, with the action trued.
Maybe this info will help but I'm pretty sure it's the primers since it did it on my buddy gun also.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
When I first started loading in the early 1970s no one ever told me how to store primers. I left them in the paper bag I had brought them home in. The paper bag was sitting on the back of the work bench. Before I got them all loaded and shot... (10 or 20 at a time) they lost something. That was before I learned the the compound in the primers is hygroscopic. It draws moisture. Now I store them in a sealed ammo can with several desi-packs thrown in. I haven't had a miss-fire in years.
When I first started loading in the early 1970s no one ever told me how to store primers. I left them in the paper bag I had brought them home in. The paper bag was sitting on the back of the work bench. Before I got them all loaded and shot... (10 or 20 at a time) they lost something. That was before I learned the the compound in the primers is hygroscopic. It draws moisture. Now I store them in a sealed ammo can with several desi-packs thrown in. I haven't had a miss-fire in years.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
I have seen several 210M's recently not ignite after a good strike from the firing pin. A few were missing the anvil, and the others were unknown why they didn't go off. But I have seen a lot more factory match ammo not go off than any reloads.
I have seen several 210M's recently not ignite after a good strike from the firing pin. A few were missing the anvil, and the others were unknown why they didn't go off. But I have seen a lot more factory match ammo not go off than any reloads.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
Yeah a hell of a lot of very good guys are gone I associated with in the gov't gun business who were extremely knowledgeable are gone and I owe them big time for what they passed on to me.
Most of us were hired as a direct result of Larry Moore either hiring directly or recommending us. I got in under his recommendation.
There is a copper holder for M1 Carbine floating around Denver as Ray Steele (former chief armorer US Secret Service and formerly test section at Frankford Arsenal) said he had a copper holder for a 30 cal carbine and he sold it at a Denver Gun show.
Ray I found out died about a year ago. Hell of a fine guy and a great shooter as well. He used to call me every three months or so and when I didn't hear from him I started asking and found out he had been dead for five months.
I suspect Homer Powley had a holder for at least a 30.06 and maybe 7.62 but I understand he left all his stuff to a friend. I think I have the last letter Homer wrote as he died like a week after writing it. Larry Moore told me Homer was the first one to let the cat out of the bag so to speak about striker energy. Then again Homer was at FA when they did the primer testing for indent offset testing thusly he "had the data".
With the increased demand for everything I suspect QA has taken a hit. Glad all my stash is pre crash for lack of better term.
I remember when the ammo surveilance boys ordered lots burned because of oil in the primer mix I couldn't figure out how oil got in and after asking I found out the mix machine was tired and had to be lubed occasionally and oil would drip out of mixmaster into the mix. Makes sense, then again folks hired for the ammo plants are necessarily to be considered "one of us". Most of them are there for the job.
Primer mixing has always been considered what we termed "black art" which means there were specific directions written down for mixing but the folks that did it for years could tell my the look of the mix when it was "ready". At FA all the primer mix was done by a man and his wife. Management tried to split them up as if there was a accident both would be killed. They said they discussed it and decided if it happened they wanted to be together forever thusly they would be vaporized together.
One interesting story from my boss who worked FA told me the primers ignition reliability went all to hell and gone and that sparked an investigation. They went down and interviewed this couple and they said it was done exactly like they always did it with the only change was previously they used blank helmet liners for mixing but they wore out all the unfinished helmet liners they had and somebody had done an analysis and determined rubber was "the way to go for safety etc etc etc" and the mix was done in the rubber. They went and got the old helmet liners, did the mix and QA came right back. Thusly they stayed with the liners till FA closed down and got a helmet manufacturer to make up several hundred blank liners. Obviously there was something in the rubber that reacted with the primer mix.
With the ammo plants going 24/7 they have to hire extra/new people and the learning curve is years. The boss told me they absolutely hated to close down a ammo plant because they knew if a big war hit the quality of ammo from a new construction plant was going to be poor until the folks got the feel of what it took to "make it right". Most of the ammo plant workers are women as they can take the stress where a guy gets burned out in a few days. Women can take it for years. Then again we know they can dish it out for years (bitch bitch bitch bitch) haha.
Yeah a hell of a lot of very good guys are gone I associated with in the gov't gun business who were extremely knowledgeable are gone and I owe them big time for what they passed on to me.
Most of us were hired as a direct result of Larry Moore either hiring directly or recommending us. I got in under his recommendation.
There is a copper holder for M1 Carbine floating around Denver as Ray Steele (former chief armorer US Secret Service and formerly test section at Frankford Arsenal) said he had a copper holder for a 30 cal carbine and he sold it at a Denver Gun show.
Ray I found out died about a year ago. Hell of a fine guy and a great shooter as well. He used to call me every three months or so and when I didn't hear from him I started asking and found out he had been dead for five months.
I suspect Homer Powley had a holder for at least a 30.06 and maybe 7.62 but I understand he left all his stuff to a friend. I think I have the last letter Homer wrote as he died like a week after writing it. Larry Moore told me Homer was the first one to let the cat out of the bag so to speak about striker energy. Then again Homer was at FA when they did the primer testing for indent offset testing thusly he "had the data".
With the increased demand for everything I suspect QA has taken a hit. Glad all my stash is pre crash for lack of better term.
I remember when the ammo surveilance boys ordered lots burned because of oil in the primer mix I couldn't figure out how oil got in and after asking I found out the mix machine was tired and had to be lubed occasionally and oil would drip out of mixmaster into the mix. Makes sense, then again folks hired for the ammo plants are necessarily to be considered "one of us". Most of them are there for the job.
Primer mixing has always been considered what we termed "black art" which means there were specific directions written down for mixing but the folks that did it for years could tell my the look of the mix when it was "ready". At FA all the primer mix was done by a man and his wife. Management tried to split them up as if there was a accident both would be killed. They said they discussed it and decided if it happened they wanted to be together forever thusly they would be vaporized together.
One interesting story from my boss who worked FA told me the primers ignition reliability went all to hell and gone and that sparked an investigation. They went down and interviewed this couple and they said it was done exactly like they always did it with the only change was previously they used blank helmet liners for mixing but they wore out all the unfinished helmet liners they had and somebody had done an analysis and determined rubber was "the way to go for safety etc etc etc" and the mix was done in the rubber. They went and got the old helmet liners, did the mix and QA came right back. Thusly they stayed with the liners till FA closed down and got a helmet manufacturer to make up several hundred blank liners. Obviously there was something in the rubber that reacted with the primer mix.
With the ammo plants going 24/7 they have to hire extra/new people and the learning curve is years. The boss told me they absolutely hated to close down a ammo plant because they knew if a big war hit the quality of ammo from a new construction plant was going to be poor until the folks got the feel of what it took to "make it right". Most of the ammo plant workers are women as they can take the stress where a guy gets burned out in a few days. Women can take it for years. Then again we know they can dish it out for years (bitch bitch bitch bitch) haha.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
War Production is termed 386 for three eight hour shifts per day six days a week. I have a friend in the business that says they are working 387 now to meet the backorders and ammo/componants order in 2009 might be delivered in 2010.
The bad part of the deal is apparently folks are hoarding ammo (don't blame them) and not shooting that much which means there is going to be lots of iffy stuff floating around for years.
One would think we could post brand and lot numbers of suspect primers but then again unless you have done as original poster has and run them in several rifles you never know.
The ammo boys in malfunction investigation would get reports in of say X number of misfires in a given lot or some kind of other problem written up by someone who most likely doesn't know what he is looking at and first thing they do is issue world wide ammo querry to report the number of rounds of that lot number in storage in the world wide system.
When the numbers come back they add them all together and if the number of rounds left in the lot cost of production is less than the amount of money that will be spent on malfunction investigation then the number crunchers will just issue a world wide destruct order on the remaining rounds in that lot number.
Now if a death is involved things will get escalated. For instance there was a MG infiltration course where the kids crawl under MG fire from fixed position guns.
A basic company was putting kids through the course back in 60s and as they trucked up ready to leave there was one kid missing. They found him on the course with a 7.62 round having gone in top of his head and exited the body to land with millions more down range.
The kid's senator got hold of info and demanded to know how it happened.
All the remaining rounds of that lot were shipped in from the ASPs situated around the world and every last round was fired through witness screens and they never found another wild round.
A witness screen consists of a target board approximately 12 feet square covered in target cloth or paper. Gun is set up and all remaining rounds were fired from a fixture at a given range so if there is another wild round it will show up outside the group and be captured in a soft retrieval fixture for examination.
Without another round showing up in lot only thing that could be surmised was a bullet with a mishaped core got loaded and it loop de looped when it came out.
You would be surprised to learn how many kids get killed in "training accidents" every year. It is far more than one would realize and from things you would never dream of.
War Production is termed 386 for three eight hour shifts per day six days a week. I have a friend in the business that says they are working 387 now to meet the backorders and ammo/componants order in 2009 might be delivered in 2010.
The bad part of the deal is apparently folks are hoarding ammo (don't blame them) and not shooting that much which means there is going to be lots of iffy stuff floating around for years.
One would think we could post brand and lot numbers of suspect primers but then again unless you have done as original poster has and run them in several rifles you never know.
The ammo boys in malfunction investigation would get reports in of say X number of misfires in a given lot or some kind of other problem written up by someone who most likely doesn't know what he is looking at and first thing they do is issue world wide ammo querry to report the number of rounds of that lot number in storage in the world wide system.
When the numbers come back they add them all together and if the number of rounds left in the lot cost of production is less than the amount of money that will be spent on malfunction investigation then the number crunchers will just issue a world wide destruct order on the remaining rounds in that lot number.
Now if a death is involved things will get escalated. For instance there was a MG infiltration course where the kids crawl under MG fire from fixed position guns.
A basic company was putting kids through the course back in 60s and as they trucked up ready to leave there was one kid missing. They found him on the course with a 7.62 round having gone in top of his head and exited the body to land with millions more down range.
The kid's senator got hold of info and demanded to know how it happened.
All the remaining rounds of that lot were shipped in from the ASPs situated around the world and every last round was fired through witness screens and they never found another wild round.
A witness screen consists of a target board approximately 12 feet square covered in target cloth or paper. Gun is set up and all remaining rounds were fired from a fixture at a given range so if there is another wild round it will show up outside the group and be captured in a soft retrieval fixture for examination.
Without another round showing up in lot only thing that could be surmised was a bullet with a mishaped core got loaded and it loop de looped when it came out.
You would be surprised to learn how many kids get killed in "training accidents" every year. It is far more than one would realize and from things you would never dream of.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
Most would be surprised by the list of suspended and restricted ammo items (not just small arms). The last time I saw a copy of the AF version, 11A-1-1, it was at least three inches thick. We received supplements at least weekly.
In all my years dealing with munitions, I never spoke directly with anyone who worked at an arsenal. Keep it coming, Hummer.
Most would be surprised by the list of suspended and restricted ammo items (not just small arms). The last time I saw a copy of the AF version, 11A-1-1, it was at least three inches thick. We received supplements at least weekly.
In all my years dealing with munitions, I never spoke directly with anyone who worked at an arsenal. Keep it coming, Hummer.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
I was talking with a ex SF type who when he was enlisted back in 90s was at Ft. Jackson he was a range medic and a M16 blew up and really f----d up this black kid. He heard one of the range NCOs say,
"another one". Kid got a medical discharge on it.
He says unless a kid dies, the SOP now is to declare such a training accident that is not documented. He said the only time such was documented was when there was a death. This was not the procedure when I was working. At that time when there was a failure we investigated everything. Apparently the greensuiters have decided the kids are expendable and don't want to report anything that would spot their careers. It should not be this way.
I did malfunction investigation on M16s along with others. We got in one about every eight months.
I suspect the experience level has deteriorated tremendously with the early outs causing lots of guys with lots of years to bail early without training others before they left.
There were lots of guys with thousands of years of real experience dumped during Clinton admin. Five guys left my office after I did and 135 years or so of experience walked out the door the same day.
You cannot replace that.
I was talking with a ex SF type who when he was enlisted back in 90s was at Ft. Jackson he was a range medic and a M16 blew up and really f----d up this black kid. He heard one of the range NCOs say,
"another one". Kid got a medical discharge on it.
He says unless a kid dies, the SOP now is to declare such a training accident that is not documented. He said the only time such was documented was when there was a death. This was not the procedure when I was working. At that time when there was a failure we investigated everything. Apparently the greensuiters have decided the kids are expendable and don't want to report anything that would spot their careers. It should not be this way.
I did malfunction investigation on M16s along with others. We got in one about every eight months.
I suspect the experience level has deteriorated tremendously with the early outs causing lots of guys with lots of years to bail early without training others before they left.
There were lots of guys with thousands of years of real experience dumped during Clinton admin. Five guys left my office after I did and 135 years or so of experience walked out the door the same day.
You cannot replace that.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
I have a brick of CCI-BR2 that's having a 2-4% FTF rate. I keep them vacuum sealed and open them when I need them, and have a dehumidifier in my reloading room. I do not see this with Win primers.
I have a brick of CCI-BR2 that's having a 2-4% FTF rate. I keep them vacuum sealed and open them when I need them, and have a dehumidifier in my reloading room. I do not see this with Win primers.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
About fifteen years ago i purchased two sleeves of 'old' primers. One sleeve was Remington one was Winchester. The primers were in wooden trays. I had a couple of misfires but did not attribute it to faulty primers but to faulty reloading.
A few years ago i puchased a sleeve of CCI large pistol primers. They smelled moldy but all fired.
About fifteen years ago i purchased two sleeves of 'old' primers. One sleeve was Remington one was Winchester. The primers were in wooden trays. I had a couple of misfires but did not attribute it to faulty primers but to faulty reloading.
A few years ago i puchased a sleeve of CCI large pistol primers. They smelled moldy but all fired.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
wooden trays would be from 40s50s timeframe.
I get mine new production and immediately slap them in 20MM can. When I need a thou I open it, remove one sleeve, reseal can immediately and place those in a 30 cal can.
wooden trays would be from 40s50s timeframe.
I get mine new production and immediately slap them in 20MM can. When I need a thou I open it, remove one sleeve, reseal can immediately and place those in a 30 cal can.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
Wish I had 50 of them. I have some 25MM experimental cans, same height and length as 20MM but several inches wider. They were on the PDO sale at Picatinny Arsenal and apparently were experimental as they were not stenciled at all. I have used them to move several times. I loaded all my dies in one of them. There was like 20 of them and me and Roscoe split them. Wish I had kept them all.
I suspect they were way to heavy as they would probably hold 70 25MM rounds.
Wish I had 50 of them. I have some 25MM experimental cans, same height and length as 20MM but several inches wider. They were on the PDO sale at Picatinny Arsenal and apparently were experimental as they were not stenciled at all. I have used them to move several times. I loaded all my dies in one of them. There was like 20 of them and me and Roscoe split them. Wish I had kept them all.
I suspect they were way to heavy as they would probably hold 70 25MM rounds.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
Lately I've seen some old primers showing up in shops. I know this because I recognize the old CCI boxes from decades ago. It's impossible to know how these have been stored.
On the other hand a 'discovered' a couple of bricks of CCI's that I had salted away (OK read misplaced and forgotten about.) over 30 years ago with no special care taken. They've been hauled from AZ to TX to OR and finally WA and I haven't had a problem with them.
Did you try and second strike them? If they go bang then, I've found it's usually the firearm.
Lately I've seen some old primers showing up in shops. I know this because I recognize the old CCI boxes from decades ago. It's impossible to know how these have been stored.
On the other hand a 'discovered' a couple of bricks of CCI's that I had salted away (OK read misplaced and forgotten about.) over 30 years ago with no special care taken. They've been hauled from AZ to TX to OR and finally WA and I haven't had a problem with them.
Did you try and second strike them? If they go bang then, I've found it's usually the firearm.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wish I had 50 of them. I have some 25MM experimental cans, same height and length as 20MM but several inches wider. They were on the PDO sale at Picatinny Arsenal and apparently were experimental as they were not stenciled at all. I have used them to move several times. I loaded all my dies in one of them. There was like 20 of them and me and Roscoe split them. Wish I had kept them all.
I suspect they were way to heavy as they would probably hold 70 25MM rounds. </div></div>
I have maybe ten, all full of brass. Probably have three or four dozen .50 cal cans, mostly holding brass. I wish I had more .30 cals. Just the right size for .45 and 5.56 ammo without being too heavy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hummer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wish I had 50 of them. I have some 25MM experimental cans, same height and length as 20MM but several inches wider. They were on the PDO sale at Picatinny Arsenal and apparently were experimental as they were not stenciled at all. I have used them to move several times. I loaded all my dies in one of them. There was like 20 of them and me and Roscoe split them. Wish I had kept them all.
I suspect they were way to heavy as they would probably hold 70 25MM rounds. </div></div>
I have maybe ten, all full of brass. Probably have three or four dozen .50 cal cans, mostly holding brass. I wish I had more .30 cals. Just the right size for .45 and 5.56 ammo without being too heavy.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
You and I think exactly the same. Best storage stuff going.
You and I think exactly the same. Best storage stuff going.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pogo57</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you try and second strike them? If they go bang then, I've found it's usually the firearm. </div></div>
Usually it's not seated deep enough if that actually works.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pogo57</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Did you try and second strike them? If they go bang then, I've found it's usually the firearm. </div></div>
Usually it's not seated deep enough if that actually works.
Re: What's the deal with bad primers
In the testing business we never second struck anything as it ruins the evidence. We wanted to measure the actual striker indent on the primer (which has no relation to copper indent) and we wanted to see if the primer was properly seated.
They were next chucked up in lathe and the case turned away until the primer falls out in hand and then it is inspected for pellet integrity, anvil condition etc.
In the testing business we never second struck anything as it ruins the evidence. We wanted to measure the actual striker indent on the primer (which has no relation to copper indent) and we wanted to see if the primer was properly seated.
They were next chucked up in lathe and the case turned away until the primer falls out in hand and then it is inspected for pellet integrity, anvil condition etc.
