What's the deal with Berger availability?

[Senor_Barney]

I am relatively new to reloading.

Began out of curiosity in Feb 2020 when (at that day) I ordered from Brownells a few boxes each of Sierra SMKs and Hornady ELDM to experiment with. I load 6.5cm. I was also able to get some powder with zero hassle from precision reloading. That lasted me a long while. Timing was aweful because withing two months reloading supplies were non existent.

I traded a buddy for some bullets he used >>> Berger >>> which I enjoyed shooting and have performed relatively well vs. the ELD and SMK (for me). But, when those ran out I come to discover Berger are virtually non-existent at retail.

For those in the game longer than I, please enlighten me....what's the deal with Berger?

1) Why do they seem multiple times less-available than any other brand? Is it really THAT much more demand or is Berger so small-time that is has SO MUCH less manufacturing capabilities? Hornady, Barnes, and Sierra pop up online often enough. And, it's not just Hybrids and not just 140gr. But also >200gr 30 cal and <110gr 6mm.

2) Was there ever a day where one could just go to a website, or walk into a store after work and grab 2 boxes of Berger bullets? Was there ever a day you didn't have to (seemingly) sit at your computer 24/7 scouring forums and Discords to "maybe" find some or trade three of something else to get 1 box of anything from Berger.

3) Would I be better served switching to another bullet where Im spending less time at the PC and more time at the range?

What are other's doing?

 

[Krob95]

I used to go into mile high and buy 105's buy the 500 no problem. Ive heard some things about bergers parent company but it should pick up again next year. I'm not happy about the lack of bullets either. no one is.


If it means shooting, buy what you can find. That's about where I am at now.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I noticed a steep drop off in availability when they started producing their own ammo, and when Federal (among others) started using their bullets in match and hunting ammo.

I used to be able to go into just about any store and pick up boxes of Berger 130 AR Hybrids, and find them online all day along. Same with the 155.5 Fullbore bullets. And the price wasn't bad.

 

[GenericBadGuy]

It is demand.

Berger projectiles are in higher demand because they are more consistent. Many PRS competitors prefer Berger for this reason.

Expect this to continue indefinitely. Word on the street was distributors were given a chance to preorder 6mm projos for delivery in Spring.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I can find 6mm and 22 cal Bergers on the shelf locally, and 6mm stuff has been popping up online regularly. I haven't seen 30cal or 6.5mm on the shelf in more than a year.

Hornady seems to be the only company catching up with demand, so I'm pretty much forced to buy them for now or not shoot. Or spend a ridiculous amount of money on Berger bullets from one of the price gouging websites.

 

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

I've found 6mm several times. 30 caliber bergers are tough to find. I have some on order still since March 2021.

 

[Darkside-Six]

The 105 and 109 hybrids are the most sought after and most used in competition. Up until about a year ago you could find them online fairly easily. Obviously now with supply and demand it has been scars. Actually I haven’t seen any vendors have any of the more popular Bergers in stock for several months now (105, 109, 140 hybrids). I have seen a lot of Hornady bullets start hitting the shelves market and keep thinking (and hoping) that Berger will be doing the same pretty soon. I’m sore when they do it’s gonna be much pricier than we’re use to and it’s gonna go very fast like every thing else has been.

 

[acudaowner]

don't blink or else they will disappear for another year and a half .

 

[phlegethon]

Berger bullets are no longer commercially available, in my view. Maybe they will come back someday. It's beyond our control. Use other bullets.

 

[Choid]

Brunos always has good availability.

 

[308pirate]

For those in the game longer than I, please enlighten me...

I shall

1) is Berger so small-time that is has SO MUCH less manufacturing capabilities?

Yes

2) Was there ever a day where one could just go to a website, or walk into a store after work and grab 2 boxes of Berger bullets? Was there ever a day you didn't have to (seemingly) sit at your computer 24/7 scouring forums and Discords to "maybe" find some or trade three of something else to get 1 box of anything from Berger.

Yes. Up until spring/summer 2019

3) Would I be better served switching to another bullet where Im spending less time at the PC and more time at the range?

Yes

What are other's [sic] doing?

Enjoying our stockpiles

 

[nn8734]

SOCOM ASR Ammo contract may be eating up a good fraction of the 215 hybrid production. General demand in excess of supply on the commercial market accounts for the shortage.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I hate to think it's been this long ago now, but three years ago, I was stockpiling 105's at an average of $155.00 per 500. And I built up a very nice pile. No, they are not for sale. I refuse to price gouge/take advantage of others, so my simple solution is to just keep them/use them.

Hopefully, we will get a good, conservative President and we will take Congress and the Senate back. If that happens, things should settle down. That's not going to alleviate much pain in the short term though. This is why AJ was right; Buy more ammo.

 

[Choid]

FWIW, it isn't reasonable to expect, with any product, that you can have the quality you want, the quantity you want at the price you want at all times. You have to give on something much of the time.

 

[Baron23]

FWIW, it isn't reasonable to expect, with any product, that you can have the quality you want, the quantity you want at the price you want at all times. You have to give on something much of the time.

But with that all said, when was the last time you saw .264 140 gr hybrid bullets or their loaded ammo w this projectile.

I have 2,500 of them or so that I bought before they became unobtanium but have not seen any for sale since.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I bought 4K 109 Long Range Target Hybrids in Jan/Feb of 2021 and that is the lat time I’ve seen any of those, the 105 hybrids or the 140 hybrids in stock or even come in stock anywhere except on gunbroker where they’re listed at 3x’s the normal amount.

I’d like to think we’ve gotta be due for a big dump in the next few months.

Everything that has been very hard to get sick as Varget, or CCI 450’s have been popping up more and more lately and on a more regular basis. I think it’s only a matter of time now that these bullets start popping up again.

 

[Choid]

But with that all said, when was the last time you saw .264 140 gr hybrid bullets or their loaded ammo w this projectile.

I have 2,500 of them or so that I bought before they became unobtanium but have not seen any for sale since.

I bought a couple thousand 144 grainers recently.

I don't disagree that supplies are tight, but a huge amount of the complaining about prices is over having to pay list price (OMG) for in demand products. We're so used to paying way below MSRP, but that isn't going to happen with tight supplies. But for the last few months, you could buy a lot of really good components, if you were willing to pay MSRP, especially if you were willing to buy larger quantities. Not Gunbroker crazy prices, but MSRP.

I don't like it any more than you do, but there is a reason that good, fast and cheap - pick two, has been a saying for a long time.

Sierra, Lapua, Vihtavuori have all been really good at getting products out to multiple places. Oddly enough, Lapua and Vihtavuori are under the same umbrella as Berger, who has been a bit less good. But buying components has definitely been a question of "what can I do with what is available" rather than can I get xyz right now.

 

[JMGlasgow]

I'm not paying 60+ cents per bullet. I'll shoot other brands if that's the new price. This hobby is expensive enough as it is. 50 cents per is pushing the envelope of affordable for me.

 

[Baron23]

I bought a couple thousand 144 grainers recently.

I don't disagree that supplies are tight, but a huge amount of the complaining about prices is over having to pay list price (OMG) for in demand products. We're so used to paying way below MSRP, but that isn't going to happen with tight supplies. But for the last few months, you could buy a lot of really good components, if you were willing to pay MSRP, especially if you were willing to buy larger quantities. Not Gunbroker crazy prices, but MSRP.

I don't like it any more than you do, but there is a reason that good, fast and cheap - pick two, has been a saying for a long time.

Sierra, Lapua, Vihtavuori have all been really good at getting products out to multiple places. Oddly enough, Lapua and Vihtavuori are under the same umbrella as Berger, who has been a bit less good. But buying components has definitely been a question of "what can I do with what is available" rather than can I get xyz right now.

I never said a thing about price.

My only point is that in times of shortage, Berger seems to often be the shortest.

Yeah, VLD…what are they?…156.5 or thereabouts…I guess somebody likes them…but 140 hybrids. Not at all.

 

[Senor_Barney]

I learned quite a bit from the responses here. Little to be optimistic about tho'

What's a consensus alternative 30 Cal bullet (over >200gr) to the Berger Hybrids?

I see a 220gr SMKs on several sites now....

 

[davsco]

i emailed them about their 205 eol hunters and they said they should starting getting back out in feb. prob just behind on everything like everyone else.

 

[Choid]

I never said a thing about price.

My only point is that in times of shortage, Berger seems to often be the shortest.

Yeah, VLD…what are they?…156.5 or thereabouts…I guess somebody likes them…but 140 hybrids. Not at all.

I don't know the answer. It doesn't seem to be the parent company, because Vihtavuori and Lapua have been the best at getting things out. So I would guess it is on the manufacturing side rather than distribution, but it could also be that the other two are dealing with more steady demand as opposed to Berger who has really come to dominate the market over the last few years and to add a lot of highly sought after products in that time. Could also be that Finland is dealing with manufacturing better than we are.

Interestingly, it seems Berger and Hornady have been really tight, and they mainly more obscure SKUs available, while Sierra has been pumping out their marquee SKUs, and their more obscure stuff is unobtanium, not that anybody is looking. I can't think of a time where you couldn't find 168, 77 and 175 smks.

 

[Choid]

I learned quite a bit from the responses here. Little to be optimistic about tho'

What's a consensus alternative 30 Cal bullet (over >200gr) to the Berger Hybrids?

I see a 220gr SMKs on several sites now....

Brunos has 200.20x Bergers for sale right now. They had 208s a month or so ago. SMKs are really easy to tune, and shoot great.

 

[semperfireloading]

Lets have Berger publish, by %, by caliber, how much of their components are for use ultimately, in Government contracts. Also, I would like for them to disclose the % of their income that comes from the government (local or federal, or state, any government). For example..why this company carry so much Berger? https://www.cmcgov.com/about-us/

 

[Huskydriver]

Lets have Berger publish, by %, by caliber, how much of their components are for use ultimately, in Government contracts. Also, I would like for them to disclose the % of their income that comes from the government (local or federal, or state, any government). For example..why this company carry so much Berger? https://www.cmcgov.com/about-us/

Yea I'm sure berger will get right on that

 

[Threadcutter308]

Lets have Berger publish, by %, by caliber, how much of their components are for use ultimately, in Government contracts. Also, I would like for them to disclose the % of their income that comes from the government (local or federal, or state, any government). For example..why this company carry so much Berger? https://www.cmcgov.com/about-us/

Ummmm, yeah. Privately held company.....

The old saying, something to do with "ice water" and "hell" comes to mind........

Oh, and I'm curious about "cmcgov"'s "inventory levels. They are also a privately held company. That kind of information is rarely, if ever, disclosed to the public. Why would they ? Please point me in the direction of their inventory statements, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Lets have Berger publish, by %, by caliber, how much of their components are for use ultimately, in Government contracts. Also, I would like for them to disclose the % of their income that comes from the government (local or federal, or state, any government). For example..why this company carry so much Berger? https://www.cmcgov.com/about-us/

Fortunately, that’s none of your business.

 

[Dstoenner]

Back in the beginning of 2021, I bought 300 105 Hybrids and 300 109 Hybrids. My buddy bought 500 140 Hybrids. And from what I hear Berger is supposed to be running the 6mm early next year. You just have to stay vigilant. We could say the same about Varget or Barnes 112 Match Burners. Both unobtanium, but I did get 500 112MB here this fall. They only lasted 1 day at Grafs.

David

 

[Senor_Barney]

I guess I'm curious to get the inside baseball on the production of bullets (and components in general).

Do they / Berger only have 1 production line / facility that restricts

a) XX amount at a time
b) Only XX types at a time
c) XX types at certain times per year

If so...that sounds incredibly inefficient to have to shut down production for days or weeks and switch over stuff (similar to refineries). I don't believe this industry is really optimised for efficiency so I do get it, but could they have one line for certain products and other lines (plural) for others?

 

[nn8734]

I guess I'm curious to get the inside baseball on the production of bullets (and components in general).

Do they / Berger only have 1 production line / facility that restricts

a) XX amount at a time
b) Only XX types at a time
c) XX types at certain times per year

If so...that sounds incredibly inefficient to have to shut down production for days or weeks and switch over stuff (similar to refineries). I don't believe this industry is really optimised for efficiency so I do get it, but could they have one line for certain products and other lines (plural) for others?

Contact Berger. Its more likely you will get answers doing that vs here unless a berger employee who is also a hide member chimes in.

Otherwise run different bullets in the near term until Bergers become more widely available again.

 

[MakeSawdust]

It is a frustrating time to be a new reloader. There are a few places that will backorder if you call. Save your money and buy a barrel's worth of components at a time. If you can afford it, buy ahead. I have had to pay a little extra, but I have been able to replace what I shoot since all of this started with the exception of primers and varget. I had a pretty good pile of those and have chosen to wait and see what happens.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Or you have have multiple calibers and spread the wealth. Nice to have choices

 

[semperfireloading]

Ummmm, yeah. Privately held company.....

The old saying, something to do with "ice water" and "hell" comes to mind........

Oh, and I'm curious about "cmcgov"'s "inventory levels. They are also a privately held company. That kind of information is rarely, if ever, disclosed to the public. Why would they ? Please point me in the direction of their inventory statements, I'm genuinely curious.

Berger is owned by Nammo. A "non" USA based company. Says berger is owned by them right on Bergers website. "Today, under Nammo Group ownership". its not a private company. Berger/Nammo are government listed contract companies. Oh look, Mesa AZ.. AKA BERGER.

NAMMO TACTICAL AMMUNITION CO. LLC, Mesa, ARIZONA, AZ 85215-1210 - governmentcontracts

government contracts, contract awards, government contractors, bid on government contracts, government contracts for bid, government bids, federal business opportunities, federal contracts, federal government contracts, bid opportunities, government RFP, fed biz opps, construction bids...

www.governmentcontracts.us

Just last week, Nammo was awarded 498M dollar contract with US Department of Defense (DOD) for non bullet related items, as example.

Contracts for December 20, 2021

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7.5 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.

www.defense.gov

Also, in fact, Berger denotes its yellow boxes products, that are target or tactical, BECAUSE of government agency requirements. Berger said this publicly. "As some of you are aware, there are agencies that require "packaging" to denote that the bullet is for tactical purposes. At the same time, if we find that the bullet is also a good product to bring to all of you for the attributes that you need in a good target bullet, we feel that this is something that we owe to all of you as well. This is why they will be in the yellow boxes as a target bullet. But most of you are aware that all Berger Bullets are made to the same match quality standard regardless of the intended application.

Bob Blaine
Berger Bullets
Technical Specialist"

Look how great the NRA is. Celebrating government contracts from Berger.

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | Berger Wins Sub-Contract For Advanced Sniper Rifle Program Ammunition

Capstone/Berger has been awarded the sub-contract by Ultra Defense Corp. to load the ammunition for the USSOCOM Advanced Sniper Rifle program.

www.ssusa.org

So it looks like what you said is not true, and what I asked for is reasonable, because Nammo/Berger is rich off the government.

Berger will not cut the Gov agencies off, and sell only to you. They will sell to Government, and you will get what is left. So lets get this Straight. Berger a NON USA owned company, with giant, huge sales to the US Government, who brands and labels their boxes directly because of these US Government agency sales...you want to defend.

because after all Berger going out of its way to support you my patriot friend. Except..they are not? They like government more than us.

And the list goes on and on. Hornady, Berger/Nammo, Remington, Ruger, Springfield Armory, Vista and on and on. Love the government and not us.

But don't worry. Republicans with the steel spines, going to come in and win back all the seats and take back over and fix all this right? Except. they are not. oops.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Berger is owned by Nammo. A "non" USA based company. Says berger is owned by them right on Bergers website. "Today, under Nammo Group ownership". its not a private company. Berger/Nammo are government listed contract companies. Oh look, Mesa AZ.. AKA BERGER.

NAMMO TACTICAL AMMUNITION CO. LLC, Mesa, ARIZONA, AZ 85215-1210 - governmentcontracts

government contracts, contract awards, government contractors, bid on government contracts, government contracts for bid, government bids, federal business opportunities, federal contracts, federal government contracts, bid opportunities, government RFP, fed biz opps, construction bids...

www.governmentcontracts.us

Just last week, Nammo was awarded 498M dollar contract with US Department of Defense (DOD) for non bullet related items, as example.

Contracts for December 20, 2021

Today's Defense Department contracts valued at $7.5 million or more are now live on Defense.gov.

www.defense.gov

Also, in fact, Berger denotes its yellow boxes products, that are target or tactical, BECAUSE of government agency requirements. Berger said this publicly. "As some of you are aware, there are agencies that require "packaging" to denote that the bullet is for tactical purposes. At the same time, if we find that the bullet is also a good product to bring to all of you for the attributes that you need in a good target bullet, we feel that this is something that we owe to all of you as well. This is why they will be in the yellow boxes as a target bullet. But most of you are aware that all Berger Bullets are made to the same match quality standard regardless of the intended application.

Bob Blaine
Berger Bullets
Technical Specialist"

Look how great the NRA is. Celebrating government contracts from Berger.

An NRA Shooting Sports Journal | Berger Wins Sub-Contract For Advanced Sniper Rifle Program Ammunition

Capstone/Berger has been awarded the sub-contract by Ultra Defense Corp. to load the ammunition for the USSOCOM Advanced Sniper Rifle program.

www.ssusa.org

So it looks like what you said is not true, and what I asked for is reasonable, because Nammo/Berger is rich off the government.

Berger will not cut the Gov agencies off, and sell only to you. They will sell to Government, and you will get what is left. So lets get this Straight. Berger a NON USA owned company, with giant, huge sales to the US Government, who brands and labels their boxes directly because of these US Government agency sales...you want to defend.

because after all Berger going out of its way to support you my patriot friend. Except..they are not? They like government more than us.

And the list goes on and on. Hornady, Berger/Nammo, Remington, Ruger, Springfield Armory, Vista and on and on. Love the government and not us.

But don't worry. Republicans with the steel spines, going to come in and win back all the seats and take back over and fix all this right? Except. they are not. oops.

OK, they're owned by Nammo. Whose headquarters reside where ? Yes, Finland. So, given that they are foreign owned (and not publicly held (as in NYSE)), for all intents and purposes, they are "privately held". You can choose to argue that point. You'd be half right and I'd be half wrong. But it's all academic. It doesn't matter. Have you ever contacted a US based, "Publicly held" company and asked them questions. The results are predictably very un-satisfying. They have no interest in answering questions where their answer(s) could be twisted around and used as ammunition against them. So, you (me and everyone else) get pablum for response.

Rather than waste a bunch of time typing more blather, I'll cut to the chase. Go ahead and contact Berger, Nammo, or whoever the hell you wish and ask your question(s). I would be surprised if you even got a response. And if you did, I'd be surprised if it was anything more than a form letter.

But hey, knock yourself out. Not really sure what your point is or what your end game is, other than yelling at clouds.

Oh, and I'm still curious about "cmcgov"'s "inventory levels. You are working on getting that info, right ?

 

[semperfireloading]

Berger is a bunch of sellouts who deserve zero respect. A long list of swamp dwellers.

You see the game yet? you think paying $100 a box of primers is just "supply and demand"? Well, it technically is, if you consider "Demand" the US government. They banned Russian stuff because they cant CONTRACT from Russians. Can't contact so they can control what you get and don't get? OK, banned.

I wish you a happy new year and a better year next year, always. Sorry this seems like argument but the govenment and all the companies that feed it, are not on your side. They love the government, and you will get the scraps.

 

[Choid]

Am I going to have to start swaging my own bullets now? I don't want to be part of selling out.

 

[308pirate]

its not a private company. Berger/Nammo are government listed contract companies.

You are an idiot with no idea how business works, if you think a company stops being privately owned because it wins a government contract.

I mean, serious industrial grade stupid.

You have zero credibility.

Signed,

A senior manager employed by a private company that does government contracts......

 

[308pirate]

Berger is a bunch of sellouts who deserve zero respect. A long list of swamp dwellers.

You see the game yet? you think paying $100 a box of primers is just "supply and demand"? Well, it technically is, if you consider "Demand" the US government. They banned Russian stuff because they cant CONTRACT from Russians. Can't contact so they can control what you get and don't get? OK, banned.

I wish you a happy new year and a better year next year, always. Sorry this seems like argument but the govenment and all the companies that feed it, are not on your side. They love the government, and you will get the scraps.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Berger is a bunch of sellouts who deserve zero respect. A long list of swamp dwellers.

You see the game yet? you think paying $100 a box of primers is just "supply and demand"? Well, it technically is, if you consider "Demand" the US government. They banned Russian stuff because they cant CONTRACT from Russians. Can't contact so they can control what you get and don't get? OK, banned.

I wish you a happy new year and a better year next year, always. Sorry this seems like argument but the govenment and all the companies that feed it, are not on your side. They love the government, and you will get the scraps.

With a few minor differences of opinion, I'm not in disagreement with you. Here's my thought(s), point by point;

1. "Berger is a bunch of sellouts who deserve zero respect. A long list of swamp dwellers".

I don't see them as being any different than any other company (public or private, firearms related or otherwise) that deals with the government. I'm not going to try and defend them or justify how they handle business with .gov. As far as "respect", that's not something I think about when I think of Berger or Lapua (I use their brass too). Or Remington, Lake City, Winchester, Barrett, Colt, SIG, FN, Sierra, Hornady, etc. I have made exceptions in the past, HS Precision being one of them. That was because of the owner (Houghton) cozying up to and adamantly defending Lon Horiuchi after Ruby Ridge. Haven't bought an HS product since probably 1990.

2. "You see the game yet? you think paying $100 a box of primers is just "supply and demand"? Well, it technically is, if you consider "Demand" the US government. They banned Russian stuff because they cant CONTRACT from Russians. Can't contact so they can control what you get and don't get? OK, banned".

Unless power cannot be wrested back from the democrats, I think we'll see prices come back down some and the supply situation ease up. Granted, we'll not likely ever see prices return to early Trump Admin levels, but I think we'll see some easing.
IIRC (?), the Russian ammo ban was a punitive action and was blamed on Russia's behavior toward Ukraine. Really, it was first and foremost an excuse to screw American gun owners. So to me, it doesn't really matter if the excuse was Russia/Ukraine, Foghorn Leghorn, Mickey Mouse or Tweetybird. I'm not convinced that it had anything to do with "contracts" or lack thereof. But that's based on the little bit of information that I saw. At the end of the day, it's the same shitty result, regardless of what lame, pathetic excuse that our .gov wants to throw out there.

3. "I wish you a happy new year and a better year next year, always. Sorry this seems like argument but the govenment and all the companies that feed it, are not on your side. They love the government, and you will get the scraps".

Yes, and Happy New Year to you too. No, I am completely aware of what you are saying and I don't think you are wrong. I don't trust .gov. It's beyond me how anyone could/can when you look at their conduct. It's fucking atrocious.
As far as the "companies that feed it", they are simply following the money. As employees of those individual companies (Public or Private), that is their responsibility first and foremost. Doesn't mean I'm defending it, just identifying it. Yes, based on that business model, we go to the back of the bus and are left with scraps in many cases. Not a hell of a lot any of us can do about it.

My suggestion is that once things ease up and prices improve, start stocking up. I've seen this cycle at least 4 times (if not more) over the last 30 to 35 years. I concluded my stockpiling about 3 years ago when the road started getting real rough for Trump. I had seen enough of the previous cycles that it seemed fairly obvious what was coming.

If I may make a suggestion ? You're pissed. I get it, there are a lot of pissed off people over this whole situation. However, stop jousting with windmills, even if you are right (which, for the most part, you are). Take a deep breath, formulate a plan about how to best insulate yourself in the future from shortage situations. Maybe we all are just going to have to find alternatives to Berger for a while. With the situation like it is right now, the market is ripe for new manufacturers to set up shop. That's essentially what Walt and Eunice Berger did when they first got started. As I understand, they started making their own bullets to supply their personal needs for the Benchrest circuit. They were not happy with the performance, price, availability and dependability of the bullets that were commercially available at the time. Initially, the thought never crossed their mind of selling any of their bullets to anyone else.

Will it happen again ? Will new manufacturers sprout up ? I dunno, but conditions are favorable, other than the raw materials market. But, that too is temporary and will improve as the metals market is one of the most cyclic markets out there.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

Everybody is a capitalist until they personally don’t like something.

All of a sudden they are now owed whatever they think. In this case, and explanation of how a private company does business.

Privacy only matters when it’s convenient for the person complaining.

 

[Feniks Technologies]

You are an idiot with no idea how business works, if you think a company stops being privately owned because it wins a government contract.

I mean, serious industrial grade stupid.

You have zero credibility.

Signed,

A senior manager employed by a private company that does government contracts......

Don’t worry. Last time he was attempting to speak for me on where I get my information on ammunition performance.

Similar to Mr. Marky Mark knowing more about where ZCO is manufactured than the owner of ZCO.

 

[Shoots 700's]

There have been alot of stupid comments on the hide over the last few days. Add “let me see your books“ is the latest.

Also, if you look hard enough you can find all the bullets you need. I can get Berger 175 OTM and others almost at will. 6 and 6.5 not as easy. I have plenty and found 1000 123 scenars to play with that shoot pretty good.

Heres an idea, plan ahead.

 

[Milo 2.5]

My only point is that in times of shortage, Berger seems to often be the shortest.

Yeah, VLD…what are they?…156.5 or thereabouts…I guess somebody likes them…but 140 hybrids. Not at all.

In my 12 yrs of shooting Berger's, they always seem to be behind, good times or bad. For yrs, at some point you would not find 105 6mm hybrids, 6.5 140 hybrids or 7mm 180 hybrids, they sell out, that is all I pay attention to. This has been the worst dry spell I have seen.
I guess I ask if Berger even wants to continue to sell the original hybrid offerings. The Nammo takeover produced a new line of hybrids, some took off, others not so much, but it seemed like cost or bang for the buck was the issue. Theoretically just by phasing them out, we could be forced to shoot the 109, 144, 184, blah blah. They are tooled to make the new bullets, have the tech, all in place.

I personally think companies like Berger, Hornady, and now Sierra making loaded ammo adds to the shortages we see.
I cannot predict how this drought will unfold, but the last 2 crisis's as we call them ended when shelves were stocked with loaded ammo.

 

[supercorndogs]

Everybody is a capitalist until they personally don’t like something.

All of a sudden they are now owed whatever they think. In this case, and explanation of how a private company does business.

Privacy only matters when it’s convenient for the person complaining.

How very capitalist of us to ban Russian primers, while guzzling Russian oil.

 

[Choid]

Are we now pretending that Russian ammo is a direct substitute for Berger component products and it is somehow adding to the problem of getting hybrids? I don't even believe that Russian reloading components are part of the ban, though I am not certain on Russian primers. But honestly other than the import ban being stupid policy, I am not sure what the fuck it has to do with a hill of beans.

My understanding is that jacket supply is very tight, and while Berger manufactures its own jackets, they may be dealing with some raw materials issues, though a lot of people who thought copper was a good investment have kind of given up after a year of stagnation in prices, so who knows how that will shake out. I know you can't find Hines jackets anywhere now, but I do not know if they are considered sellouts as well, though I am sure I will be informed shortly.

The ammo/component issue is complicated in that no manufactures are actually adding capacity as much as they are trying to push production through extra shifts etc. This is a clue as to what they perceive as likely future demand, and unless that perception changes, there isn't going to be a supply side solution to shortages, rather they will be determined by cyclical demand as they always have been.

 

[kindabitey]

So, for the folks that want to tell all of the component and ammo manufacturers who do business with .gov to fuck off, where are you
getting your stuff?
Are you making your own primers? Manufacturing powder, copper jackets, and scavenging lead from somewhere?

 

[Choid]

So, for the folks that want to tell all of the component and ammo manufacturers who do business with .gov to fuck off, where are you
getting your stuff?
Are you making your own primers? Manufacturing powder, copper jackets, and scavenging lead from somewhere?

I refuse to shoot anything that is not jacketed with a reclaimed 22lr round, and now that I know that Nammo is the devil spawn I am only going to recycle CCI 22 casings as primers.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

Is this still available?

 

[308pirate]

I don't even believe that Russian reloading components are part of the ban, though I am not certain on Russian primers.

I am certain Russian primers are not banned from import, at least as of today.

 

[308pirate]

Will new manufacturers sprout up ? I dunno, but conditions are favorable, other than the raw materials market.

SHORT term conditions are favorable.

I wouldn't finance an ammo making startup.............