You know theres another option - if you really wanted to be altruistic, just sell them for what you have into them + shipping.
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What's the deal with Berger availability?
- Thread starter Senor_Barney
- Start date
Lots of good points that only a few people working at Berger can answer.
supply, demand, production capability, and cost of expanding production capability.
take the coveted 30cal 215 grain bullet part# 30429. This bullet is loved by most people on the forums in a 300 win mag, some 300 PRC, and then 300 norma mag. guys got a hold of it.
Berger gets, 'single-year contract specifies 800,000 rounds of .300 Norma Mag. that will be loaded with Berger's .30-cal., 215-grain hybrid bullets'.
so, figure that's 800,000 that is no longer going to the retail market.
Is Berger ramping up production to offset the retail market? Well, from what I've seen over the last few years, the answer would be no.
Can't find them retail, but you can see that Berger is selling them to Federal Ammo division. Federal is selling these at 4.00 a piece.Federal produces a 300 win mag XL (similar to Bergers discontinued 300 win mag 215 grain OTM - which was 2.00 a round in 2019 vs Federal XL at 4.00 a round (or higher) 2021 pricing)
Why doesn't Berger expand production? Only the finance guys can tell you that one. Maybe, in order to expand, the equipment to produce 10000 more bullets might cost 10 million dollars. Who knows? (the Berger Finance people do).
Expanded capacity, extra supply, retail price goes down, less margin.
Only Berger knows. Maybe Berger is good with selling them to Gov and using the private sector as Beta testers.
Everyone is a capitalist, until the consumer reacts….
Like it or not, not being happy with something, boycotting and rallying others, are all valid consumer responses within the capitalist free market.
Quite frankly, if gun owners balls ever dropped, we would not face half of the BS we now face. Christ, K-pop teens are more feared as a demographic than us. That should tell you something…..
LOL, I am not laughing at you, but it sure seems in the bullet world, capital expenditures never seem to pay for itself.
Not only you. Every single major ammo manufacturer seems to feel the same way. It's called a clue.
IMO Its a handful of things regarding OP's Original Question...
#1 Berger's are more desirable in general due to the consistency and the amount of top shooters that use them. If top guys shoot something everyone wants to run what the top shooters run.
#2 Demand is high so when anything comes available its gone in seconds cause so many are looking.
#3 Guys that used to buy a couple hundred now buy a couple thousand cause nobody knows when they will become available again.
#4 Its also the caliber your looking at 6mm and 6.5mm are 2 of the most popular calibers and the grain bullets add to that. Finding Berger 140gr Hybrids compared to Berger 120gr BT is completely different.
#5 If you can find something that has similar weight, BC, shoots well in your rifle, and is easier to find buy those as a sub in between when you can buy Bergers. Nosler RDF, SMK, ELD, Etc as a sub...
#6 Regardless of Berger's production I think even if they did turn and burn and shove out a mountain of a popular bullet with the way everyone buys now I think they would still be gone in no time.
#7 You will still be able to find things from time to time if your willing to pay the inflated price, some guys will pay it and shoot and others will bitch and pass on it.
#8 Yes there was a day that they were plentiful but those days are long gone so if you want them you better have alerts set up and check websites a couple times a day minimum unfortunately.
#1 Berger's are more desirable in general due to the consistency and the amount of top shooters that use them. If top guys shoot something everyone wants to run what the top shooters run.
#2 Demand is high so when anything comes available its gone in seconds cause so many are looking.
#3 Guys that used to buy a couple hundred now buy a couple thousand cause nobody knows when they will become available again.
#4 Its also the caliber your looking at 6mm and 6.5mm are 2 of the most popular calibers and the grain bullets add to that. Finding Berger 140gr Hybrids compared to Berger 120gr BT is completely different.
#5 If you can find something that has similar weight, BC, shoots well in your rifle, and is easier to find buy those as a sub in between when you can buy Bergers. Nosler RDF, SMK, ELD, Etc as a sub...
#6 Regardless of Berger's production I think even if they did turn and burn and shove out a mountain of a popular bullet with the way everyone buys now I think they would still be gone in no time.
#7 You will still be able to find things from time to time if your willing to pay the inflated price, some guys will pay it and shoot and others will bitch and pass on it.
#8 Yes there was a day that they were plentiful but those days are long gone so if you want them you better have alerts set up and check websites a couple times a day minimum unfortunately.
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Certainly if they are a bullet you don't end up shooting. No sense holding on to that shit if somebody else wants it.
308Pirate
Nammo/Berger IS A PUBLIC company with shareholders. https://www.nammo.com/about-us/board-of-directors/
The chair of the company is literally assigned by the government of Norway itself and they have a board to do what is in the best interests of the share holders. You can read right? Sr Manager? it says "The composition of the Board of Directors for the Nammo Group is determined by its Shareholders Agreement." OOPS.
Does a private company release 41 page PDF's with all their detailed financial results?
www.marketresearchreports.com
you know why public companies release giant PDF's with financial results and crap?
Its sad you have no idea about business, the difference between private and public companies, and how the hell did you make Sr Manager not knowing the basics? Puzzling.
Nammo/Berger IS A PUBLIC company with shareholders. https://www.nammo.com/about-us/board-of-directors/
The chair of the company is literally assigned by the government of Norway itself and they have a board to do what is in the best interests of the share holders. You can read right? Sr Manager? it says "The composition of the Board of Directors for the Nammo Group is determined by its Shareholders Agreement." OOPS.
Does a private company release 41 page PDF's with all their detailed financial results?
Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report
Market Research on Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report having 37.00 pages and priced at USD 175.00 launched by MarketResearchReports.com
www.marketresearchreports.com
you know why public companies release giant PDF's with financial results and crap?
Its sad you have no idea about business, the difference between private and public companies, and how the hell did you make Sr Manager not knowing the basics? Puzzling.
308Pirate
Nammo/Berger IS A PUBLIC company with shareholders. https://www.nammo.com/about-us/board-of-directors/
The chair of the company is literally assigned by the government of Norway itself and they have a board to do what is in the best interests of the share holders. You can read right? Sr Manager? it says "The composition of the Board of Directors for the Nammo Group is determined by its Shareholders Agreement." OOPS.
Does a private company release 41 page PDF's with all their detailed financial results?
Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report
Market Research on Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report having 37.00 pages and priced at USD 175.00 launched by MarketResearchReports.com
you know why public companies release giant PDF's with financial results and crap?
Its sad you have no idea about business, the difference between private and public companies, and how the hell did you make Sr Manager not knowing the basics? Puzzling.
Private or publicly traded, it makes no difference regarding your idiotic tirades.
Now STFU and sit down to wait for your bullets.
Or if you have such a hardon for Berger, why don't you become a majority shareholder and show them what's up?
Talk is super cheap.
Look fucktard, you clearly don't know much about finance. Nammo is not a publicly traded company. It is a joint venture of the Finnish and Norewegian governments, and one of those sold half of its ownership to Kongsberg Group, which is a publicly traded company. But no, you cannot buy and sell Nammo shares on the open market. They are a public company only in so much as they are nationally owned by two allied countries.308Pirate
Nammo/Berger IS A PUBLIC company with shareholders. https://www.nammo.com/about-us/board-of-directors/
The chair of the company is literally assigned by the government of Norway itself and they have a board to do what is in the best interests of the share holders. You can read right? Sr Manager? it says "The composition of the Board of Directors for the Nammo Group is determined by its Shareholders Agreement." OOPS.
Does a private company release 41 page PDF's with all their detailed financial results?
Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report
Market Research on Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report having 37.00 pages and priced at USD 175.00 launched by MarketResearchReports.com
you know why public companies release giant PDF's with financial results and crap?
Its sad you have no idea about business, the difference between private and public companies, and how the hell did you make Sr Manager not knowing the basics? Puzzling.
And yes, plenty of private companies release financial statements and detailed results. And plenty of private companies have shareholders and shareholder agreements.
Stop being an idiot. Thanks.
I'm Semperfireloading and I just made a fucking fool of myself.
Seriously, can we keep the angry people not knowing what the fuck they are talking about shit in the Bear Pit?
I believe I read that Sierra bought Berger, and I was unaware of "Oddly enough, Lapua and Vihtavuori are under the same umbrella as Berger". So bullets, as in powders are all going the same way - Merger mania/market control.
Sierra is, I believe, independent. They have, or had, some relationship with Starline, but I am not sure what exactly it is. It makes sense, though, since these companies cut a lot of costs by having unified distribution channels. And then you have companies like Hodgdon/Accurate/IMR etc, that are basically nothing but marketing companies, so when they merge they are generating pretty good cost savings.
We think of brass, bullets and powder as very different, but in reality combining them is more like having a company that makes mayo, pickles and bread, and sells them all to supermarkets, rather than an old fashioned conglomerate that makes sporting goods, tires and electronics, for no particular good reason.
We think of brass, bullets and powder as very different, but in reality combining them is more like having a company that makes mayo, pickles and bread, and sells them all to supermarkets, rather than an old fashioned conglomerate that makes sporting goods, tires and electronics, for no particular good reason.
308Pirate
Nammo/Berger IS A PUBLIC company with shareholders. https://www.nammo.com/about-us/board-of-directors/
The chair of the company is literally assigned by the government of Norway itself and they have a board to do what is in the best interests of the share holders. You can read right? Sr Manager? it says "The composition of the Board of Directors for the Nammo Group is determined by its Shareholders Agreement." OOPS.
Does a private company release 41 page PDF's with all their detailed financial results?
Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report
Market Research on Nammo AS - Strategy, SWOT and Corporate Finance Report having 37.00 pages and priced at USD 175.00 launched by MarketResearchReports.com
you know why public companies release giant PDF's with financial results and crap?
Its sad you have no idea about business, the difference between private and public companies, and how the hell did you make Sr Manager not knowing the basics? Puzzling.
……publicly traded companies are still private companies.
You will not be on the forum much longer if you continue down the current path of not providing useful information whilst also stirring up shit.
Had a friend give me a couple boxes of 200.20x. They shot well so I looked for more... None to be had for months... Perhaps a year now.
So I got tired of waiting and went to a different brand. And I was able to get a sufficient quantity at a good price.
Now I'm getting notifications from a "back channel" seller that has 200.20x in stock at a nice price... Gee, that sucks...' Ive got enough of the other brand to finish my current barrel and then some.
The usual response to "I can't find this..." is usually "you snooze, you lose" and then a rebuke to buy in bulk when available.
But the market works both ways. Consumers adapt. If you can't get your shit to the consumer, he'll adapt to buy from someone who can.
You can make the best shit on the planet. But if you can't get it into the hands of your customers you're doomed.
I don't know what Berger's strategy is... It really looks like they don't have one. Been a shit show for a while now. Now in fairness, it was a shit show for all of them for a while. But Berger is really sucking hind tit.
As far as making their nut with .gov contracts... I am less and less enthused about my tax dollars being used to buy shit that has an increasing likelihood of being used against me.
But that's just me.
Mike
So I got tired of waiting and went to a different brand. And I was able to get a sufficient quantity at a good price.
Now I'm getting notifications from a "back channel" seller that has 200.20x in stock at a nice price... Gee, that sucks...' Ive got enough of the other brand to finish my current barrel and then some.
The usual response to "I can't find this..." is usually "you snooze, you lose" and then a rebuke to buy in bulk when available.
But the market works both ways. Consumers adapt. If you can't get your shit to the consumer, he'll adapt to buy from someone who can.
You can make the best shit on the planet. But if you can't get it into the hands of your customers you're doomed.
I don't know what Berger's strategy is... It really looks like they don't have one. Been a shit show for a while now. Now in fairness, it was a shit show for all of them for a while. But Berger is really sucking hind tit.
As far as making their nut with .gov contracts... I am less and less enthused about my tax dollars being used to buy shit that has an increasing likelihood of being used against me.
But that's just me.
Mike
People used to buy 500-1000 rounds at a time. Some guys I shoot with would buy a couple 100 rounds boxes every few matches. Those days are over. Now they buy as much or more than they can afford.
Running out of 130 grain Bergers. Last box opened. Still have a good supply of 144’s. But going to try Norma’s 130grain bullets as soon as it quits raining. If they shoot, I’ll get another 500 and that should get the barrel pretty close to toast. If they don’t, I’ll go with the 144’s. The RPR is running short of EXD-X’s. (Which it really loves. It shoots the Berger 144’s even better, but as it has over 2000 rounds down the barrel, I think I have enough EXD-X’s to last. Then I will probably go to another bore size on both rifles.
If one were smart, he would have bought cases and cases of Berger ammo when Target Sports had it for around $25/box. And plenty of Berger bullets at the same time…
As Forrest Gump said, “stupid is as stupid does”….
As Forrest Gump said, “stupid is as stupid does”….
At the pace I go through rifle ammo (308 of course) I probably have enough for the next 5 - 7 years in primers (Winchester, CCI, UNIS Ginex), bullets (mostly Hornady with some Sierra and PPU), and powder (TAC and IMR 4895).
At $1.25/round, one didn’t need to be a millionaire, just needed to be smart. Hell the brass was worth almost that much alone.
You don’t need a crystal ball to tell you when to stock up. You just need to watch democrats win (steal) elections to see the writing on the wall. Here im referring to the 2018 mid terms. I started buying up everything in stock for the systems i load for. Common sense for anyone that was around during the Obama year shortages.
Again, there was an enormous dump of Laupa brass today at Brunos, just as there has been virtually across the reloading world weekly for the last year or so. So it isn't Nammo who is having trouble, but Berger.
I am sticking with my guess that they are, unlike Sierra, not producing what people want by dedicating capacity to a few skus, but running a normal production cycle, and also guessing that they don't have enough tooling to do both.
I am sticking with my guess that they are, unlike Sierra, not producing what people want by dedicating capacity to a few skus, but running a normal production cycle, and also guessing that they don't have enough tooling to do both.
A LOT of Berger in stock here.
www.bluecollarreloading.com
Best prices around too.
Berger Projectiles
Berger only makes match grade rifle bullets for Varmint, Target, Hunting, and Tactical. When we say “Match Grade” we mean that the highest quality copper and lead available is used in a process focused entirely on consistency rather than speed. The copper is made into the J4 Precision Jacket...
www.bluecollarreloading.com
Best prices around too.
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