Yes I know I will get flamed if someone doesn't read my post.... so here it goes. I have a regular rifling in my Rem 700 PSS and I have cleaned it after each range shooting. (normally 20-50 rounds) Has anyone found out about how many shots it takes to start to drop off accuracy in regular rifling? Also is there a difference between the regular rifling and 5r in rounds till accuracy drops off? Is there a difference at all that someone has noticed. Any info will be greatly appreciated.
What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
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Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
about how many shots it takes for accuracy to fall off is not something that can bve answered in a generalization.
There are way too many variable (powder, bullet, load, % propellant burnt, etc) to make such aguess.
One needs to document rounds fored between cleaning for each rifle to know.
My Rock Creek 5R 308 can shoot longer than my Douglas 7-08 before accuracy falls off, but both shoot way more rounds than most shooters tolerate befor that happens. 308 has gone upwards of 700rds without significant loss of accuracy, and my 7-08 is on around 400 right now and since cleaned last and doing fine.
about how many shots it takes for accuracy to fall off is not something that can bve answered in a generalization.
There are way too many variable (powder, bullet, load, % propellant burnt, etc) to make such aguess.
One needs to document rounds fored between cleaning for each rifle to know.
My Rock Creek 5R 308 can shoot longer than my Douglas 7-08 before accuracy falls off, but both shoot way more rounds than most shooters tolerate befor that happens. 308 has gone upwards of 700rds without significant loss of accuracy, and my 7-08 is on around 400 right now and since cleaned last and doing fine.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
Factory barrels are going to be a whole 'nother ball game. Log your rounds and you will know what your PSS will do.
Factory barrels are going to be a whole 'nother ball game. Log your rounds and you will know what your PSS will do.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
Okay I heard that the 5r is a lot easier to clean, but more less was wondering if it was the same for round count I guess.
I agree about the variables maybe someone who had an original barrel on their gun and switched for a 5r could maybe help me here. The variables would be a lot closer than 2 different guns I'm guessing.
Okay I heard that the 5r is a lot easier to clean, but more less was wondering if it was the same for round count I guess.
I agree about the variables maybe someone who had an original barrel on their gun and switched for a 5r could maybe help me here. The variables would be a lot closer than 2 different guns I'm guessing.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
If they switched to a 5R it would be apples to oranges. I think the Remington 5R's are still hammer forged rifling, just a different mandrel, and it'd be hard to find someone who switched to a takeoff.
Mosst aftermarket 5R's are going to be cut or maybe buttoned.
If they switched to a 5R it would be apples to oranges. I think the Remington 5R's are still hammer forged rifling, just a different mandrel, and it'd be hard to find someone who switched to a takeoff.
Mosst aftermarket 5R's are going to be cut or maybe buttoned.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
5R rifling: "5R rifling is a rifling developed in Russia which uses 5 lands and 5 grooves instead of the traditional 6 lands and grooves. In addition, the sides of each land are cut at a 65 degree angle versus a harsh 90 degree angle on standard rifling.
Benefits of 5R: 5R rifling’s unique design provides benefits to the shooter by causing less bullet deformation. How? Because the edges of each land do not cut into and deform the bullet jacket. When the bullet jacket is less deformed, there will be less jacket fouling in the grooves. The results are better consistency of accuracy from shot to shot, greater bullet stability over multiple shots."
Also, why are you cleaning every 20-50 rounds? You're beating the rifling up for no reason.
5R rifling: "5R rifling is a rifling developed in Russia which uses 5 lands and 5 grooves instead of the traditional 6 lands and grooves. In addition, the sides of each land are cut at a 65 degree angle versus a harsh 90 degree angle on standard rifling.
Benefits of 5R: 5R rifling’s unique design provides benefits to the shooter by causing less bullet deformation. How? Because the edges of each land do not cut into and deform the bullet jacket. When the bullet jacket is less deformed, there will be less jacket fouling in the grooves. The results are better consistency of accuracy from shot to shot, greater bullet stability over multiple shots."
Also, why are you cleaning every 20-50 rounds? You're beating the rifling up for no reason.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/
I went 500 with my Remington 5r and couldn't stand it any more and had to clean it. It did not show any signs of loss accuracy. I do notice less copper fouling in it compared to my 700 30-06 although it's a regular hunting barrel.
I went 500 with my Remington 5r and couldn't stand it any more and had to clean it. It did not show any signs of loss accuracy. I do notice less copper fouling in it compared to my 700 30-06 although it's a regular hunting barrel.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300snipe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, why are you cleaning every 20-50 rounds? You're beating the rifling up for no reason. </div></div>
After each range shooting. Its what a sniper told me to do. After each time you take it out and shoot before you put it back you clean it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300snipe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Also, why are you cleaning every 20-50 rounds? You're beating the rifling up for no reason. </div></div>
After each range shooting. Its what a sniper told me to do. After each time you take it out and shoot before you put it back you clean it.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinkMiST aG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Its what a sniper told me to do. </div></div>
Nice!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinkMiST aG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Its what a sniper told me to do. </div></div>
Nice!!
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinkMiST aG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Its what a sniper told me to do. </div></div>
Nice!! </div></div>
I have a buddy who is a LE sniper.
The class that he went through required them to clean after every session whether it was 5 or 50 rounds and the hammered it in that it was essential to clean after every session. He is overly anal about it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinkMiST aG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Its what a sniper told me to do. </div></div>
Nice!! </div></div>
I have a buddy who is a LE sniper.
The class that he went through required them to clean after every session whether it was 5 or 50 rounds and the hammered it in that it was essential to clean after every session. He is overly anal about it.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
I am aware that that is LE shooter protocol, "its what a sniper told me to do" just struck me as nice. Even knowing better that statement brough to mind gun store special forces storytellers....
No offense intended.
I am aware that that is LE shooter protocol, "its what a sniper told me to do" just struck me as nice. Even knowing better that statement brough to mind gun store special forces storytellers....
No offense intended.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am aware that that is LE shooter protocol, "its what a sniper told me to do" just struck me as nice. Even knowing better that statement brough to mind gun store special forces storytellers....
No offense intended. </div></div>
No offense taken.
I respect this guy very much. He is a SWAT sniper and goes to multiple military comps and does very well with them. He has passed multiple sniper schools as well. I am a rookie compared to him and that's why every thing he tells me I take it as a lesson due to the fact he has done a lot more than I ever have.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am aware that that is LE shooter protocol, "its what a sniper told me to do" just struck me as nice. Even knowing better that statement brough to mind gun store special forces storytellers....
No offense intended. </div></div>
No offense taken.
I respect this guy very much. He is a SWAT sniper and goes to multiple military comps and does very well with them. He has passed multiple sniper schools as well. I am a rookie compared to him and that's why every thing he tells me I take it as a lesson due to the fact he has done a lot more than I ever have.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
Never got the people who say you'll wear out a gun barrel by cleaning it. If a bullet with 30,000 Psi behind it traveling 2,600 fps doesn't wear it out for 10,000 rounds, how the hell is a soft brush and a piece of cloth going to? That doesn't mean you can't screw up the crown though.
Never got the people who say you'll wear out a gun barrel by cleaning it. If a bullet with 30,000 Psi behind it traveling 2,600 fps doesn't wear it out for 10,000 rounds, how the hell is a soft brush and a piece of cloth going to? That doesn't mean you can't screw up the crown though.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
It's not cleaning that does the damage, it's improper cleaning. Steel brushes, uncoated or jointed rods, not using a bore guide, and overly corrosive or abrasive cleaning materials all come to mind. And, as noted above, damaging the crown.
To the OP, there have been several threads on when to clean. Consensus seems to be: Clean it when accuracy falls off. This could be anywhere from a couple dozen to several hundred rounds, and is dependent on many factors. Start a logbook, track your rounds fired vs. accuracy, and note when cleaning seems needed.
Also, most rifles need a few shots fired after cleaning to settle back to pre-cleaning accuracy and point of impact. Most people I shoot matches with won't clean right before or between stages due to this. I'm one of them.
Like you, I cleaned after every range session, 20 shots or 200. I don't do it anymore as it's just not neccesary. My match rifle is a Rock-barred 700, and after several hundred rounds without cleaning, at this month's F-class match I shot a 587-17X, which was good enough for overall winner that day. (I have GOT to learn to read wind better!)
Just go shoot it, and track it. It will let you know when it needs cleaning.
1911fan
It's not cleaning that does the damage, it's improper cleaning. Steel brushes, uncoated or jointed rods, not using a bore guide, and overly corrosive or abrasive cleaning materials all come to mind. And, as noted above, damaging the crown.
To the OP, there have been several threads on when to clean. Consensus seems to be: Clean it when accuracy falls off. This could be anywhere from a couple dozen to several hundred rounds, and is dependent on many factors. Start a logbook, track your rounds fired vs. accuracy, and note when cleaning seems needed.
Also, most rifles need a few shots fired after cleaning to settle back to pre-cleaning accuracy and point of impact. Most people I shoot matches with won't clean right before or between stages due to this. I'm one of them.
Like you, I cleaned after every range session, 20 shots or 200. I don't do it anymore as it's just not neccesary. My match rifle is a Rock-barred 700, and after several hundred rounds without cleaning, at this month's F-class match I shot a 587-17X, which was good enough for overall winner that day. (I have GOT to learn to read wind better!)
Just go shoot it, and track it. It will let you know when it needs cleaning.
1911fan
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not cleaning that does the damage, it's improper cleaning. Steel brushes, uncoated or jointed rods, not using a bore guide, and overly corrosive or abrasive cleaning materials all come to mind. And, as noted above, damaging the crown.1911fan </div></div>
I understand this to the T. There is nothing wrong with cleaning until it becomes improper. I will lay off the cleaning for a bit and save some time on cleaning. I talked to the sniper I know and he is in SWAT. He said that its a liability issue. If he doesn't clean the rifle before he goes out on a call there can be legal issues with that. Since I'm not in any of that I can afford to not clean after each time out shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To the OP, there have been several threads on when to clean. Consensus seems to be: Clean it when accuracy falls off. This could be anywhere from a couple dozen to several hundred rounds, and is dependent on many factors. Start a logbook, track your rounds fired vs. accuracy, and note when cleaning seems needed.
Also, most rifles need a few shots fired after cleaning to settle back to pre-cleaning accuracy and point of impact. Most people I shoot matches with won't clean right before or between stages due to this. I'm one of them.
Like you, I cleaned after every range session, 20 shots or 200. I don't do it anymore as it's just not neccesary. My match rifle is a Rock-barred 700, and after several hundred rounds without cleaning, at this month's F-class match I shot a 587-17X, which was good enough for overall winner that day. (I have GOT to learn to read wind better!)
Just go shoot it, and track it. It will let you know when it needs cleaning.
1911fan </div></div>
I really need to start my log book I have the cover, but not sure on what I want for a log book. I was thinking of making my own, but not sure what all I need included for page types in it.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's not cleaning that does the damage, it's improper cleaning. Steel brushes, uncoated or jointed rods, not using a bore guide, and overly corrosive or abrasive cleaning materials all come to mind. And, as noted above, damaging the crown.1911fan </div></div>
I understand this to the T. There is nothing wrong with cleaning until it becomes improper. I will lay off the cleaning for a bit and save some time on cleaning. I talked to the sniper I know and he is in SWAT. He said that its a liability issue. If he doesn't clean the rifle before he goes out on a call there can be legal issues with that. Since I'm not in any of that I can afford to not clean after each time out shooting.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
To the OP, there have been several threads on when to clean. Consensus seems to be: Clean it when accuracy falls off. This could be anywhere from a couple dozen to several hundred rounds, and is dependent on many factors. Start a logbook, track your rounds fired vs. accuracy, and note when cleaning seems needed.
Also, most rifles need a few shots fired after cleaning to settle back to pre-cleaning accuracy and point of impact. Most people I shoot matches with won't clean right before or between stages due to this. I'm one of them.
Like you, I cleaned after every range session, 20 shots or 200. I don't do it anymore as it's just not neccesary. My match rifle is a Rock-barred 700, and after several hundred rounds without cleaning, at this month's F-class match I shot a 587-17X, which was good enough for overall winner that day. (I have GOT to learn to read wind better!)
Just go shoot it, and track it. It will let you know when it needs cleaning.
1911fan </div></div>
I really need to start my log book I have the cover, but not sure on what I want for a log book. I was thinking of making my own, but not sure what all I need included for page types in it.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
A pocket sized rite in the rain notepad will work for now-jot down date, how many rounds fired, environmental conditions and any other notes you may want.
Consistent decent data beats perfect data not recorded.
A pocket sized rite in the rain notepad will work for now-jot down date, how many rounds fired, environmental conditions and any other notes you may want.
Consistent decent data beats perfect data not recorded.
Re: What's the difference between regular rifling/ 5r
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinkMiST aG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really need to start my log book I have the cover, but not sure on what I want for a log book. I was thinking of making my own, but not sure what all I need included for page types in it. </div></div>
Check out Impact Data Books, in the Vendors section. I have three now, and since they are customizable they suti my needs very nicely. Plus, Tony's a great guy to deal with.
1911fan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pinkMiST aG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really need to start my log book I have the cover, but not sure on what I want for a log book. I was thinking of making my own, but not sure what all I need included for page types in it. </div></div>
Check out Impact Data Books, in the Vendors section. I have three now, and since they are customizable they suti my needs very nicely. Plus, Tony's a great guy to deal with.
1911fan
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