Inspired by Fredo's 2700 yard attempts...I'd be curious to hear about everyone's outer limits of effective shooting. So, what distance can you guys shoot with consistency under 1MOA? Please provide details of the distance, rifle, scope, and ammo. And of course...if you have pics...
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What's your effective range???
- Thread starter millsd
- Start date
Re: What's your effective range???
Under 1 moa? Mil STD is 1.5 moa vertical spread at 1500 meters. I think you need to get out and shoot past 1000 yards instead of just talking about it. LOL
Under 1 moa? Mil STD is 1.5 moa vertical spread at 1500 meters. I think you need to get out and shoot past 1000 yards instead of just talking about it. LOL
Re: What's your effective range???
I think there's a group buy going on institution-sized cans of Dinty Moore beef stew if that helps ya.
I think there's a group buy going on institution-sized cans of Dinty Moore beef stew if that helps ya.
Re: What's your effective range???
sr90...Still waiting on my SRS rifle. Get that to me soon so I can get out there instead of just satisfying my curiosity of how far others can shoot
sr90...Still waiting on my SRS rifle. Get that to me soon so I can get out there instead of just satisfying my curiosity of how far others can shoot
Re: What's your effective range???
1450 is about as far as I ever shoot, I'm sure my equipment will take me farther, but I haven't ever pushed it very hard.
1450 is about as far as I ever shoot, I'm sure my equipment will take me farther, but I haven't ever pushed it very hard.
Re: What's your effective range???
With .308 I make it to about 800 yards with +/- 80% first round hit. I go down to 50% or so pretty quick past that. All depends on how well I judge the wind. This past week I shot at 1225 yards. 1 moa target. Took me 2 rounds to get on steel and then I rang off 12 hits, 1 miss, 4 hits 2 miss 1 hit.
With .308 I make it to about 800 yards with +/- 80% first round hit. I go down to 50% or so pretty quick past that. All depends on how well I judge the wind. This past week I shot at 1225 yards. 1 moa target. Took me 2 rounds to get on steel and then I rang off 12 hits, 1 miss, 4 hits 2 miss 1 hit.
Re: What's your effective range???
I do not intend my qestion to be sarcasitic, but what do you mean "with consistency under 1MOA?" Do you mean 10 shots out of 10, 8 shots out of 10, cold bore?
JeffVN
I do not intend my qestion to be sarcasitic, but what do you mean "with consistency under 1MOA?" Do you mean 10 shots out of 10, 8 shots out of 10, cold bore?
JeffVN
Re: What's your effective range???
I'd say 60% hit rate onto a 1MOA sized target for any given range. At least then you can say you're more likely to hit a target than not.
I'd say 60% hit rate onto a 1MOA sized target for any given range. At least then you can say you're more likely to hit a target than not.
Re: What's your effective range???
This should answer your question, is this effective?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBBnYPdfGCo
This should answer your question, is this effective?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBBnYPdfGCo
Re: What's your effective range???
Nice video Fredo. And while I'd say the shooting was impressive...I couldn't say it's effective as that totally depends on your goal. For the intent of this thread, I'm curious to see just how far out people can shoot within 1MOA for different calibers/rifles/etc.
Nice video Fredo. And while I'd say the shooting was impressive...I couldn't say it's effective as that totally depends on your goal. For the intent of this thread, I'm curious to see just how far out people can shoot within 1MOA for different calibers/rifles/etc.
Re: What's your effective range???
Millsd,
Next time you can volunter to hold the target for us since it's not effective.
LOL
Millsd,
Next time you can volunter to hold the target for us since it's not effective.
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there's a group buy going on institution-sized cans of Dinty Moore beef stew if that helps ya</div></div>
I never could understand that movie. Between the shooter guy and the dog, seems like there would have been enough beer cans to shoot at without wasting a whole can of stew.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there's a group buy going on institution-sized cans of Dinty Moore beef stew if that helps ya</div></div>
I never could understand that movie. Between the shooter guy and the dog, seems like there would have been enough beer cans to shoot at without wasting a whole can of stew.
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there's a group buy going on institution-sized cans of Dinty Moore beef stew if that helps ya</div></div>
I never could understand that movie. Between the shooter guy and the dog, seems like there would have been enough beer cans to shoot at without wasting a whole can of stew. </div></div>
excellent point Kraig, never thought about it that way.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think there's a group buy going on institution-sized cans of Dinty Moore beef stew if that helps ya</div></div>
I never could understand that movie. Between the shooter guy and the dog, seems like there would have been enough beer cans to shoot at without wasting a whole can of stew. </div></div>
excellent point Kraig, never thought about it that way.
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Millsd,
Next time you can volunter to hold the target for us since it's not effective.
LOL
</div></div>
Hmmm...so you get 1 shot at your 2700 yard "effective" range and then I get 1 shot at a range I'd consider effective?
Seriously though, I'm not trying to offend anyone. The DTA is a great rifle and the shooting by Fredo et al was impressive. And I'm sure given more practice at that range, the groups would be better and better. I'm just curious how far out people can shoot with 1MOA or better accuracy. Actually...precision would probably be a better term as I care about the tightness/consistency of the group as it's a better indicator IMHO.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Millsd,
Next time you can volunter to hold the target for us since it's not effective.
</div></div>
Hmmm...so you get 1 shot at your 2700 yard "effective" range and then I get 1 shot at a range I'd consider effective?
Re: What's your effective range???
Millsd,
And I'm trying to tell you that the farther you get the bigger the MOA spread gets, a gun that shoots 1/4 moa at 100 yards may shoot 1/2 moa at 500 yards and 1 MOA at 1000 yards and 1.5 moa at 1500 yards and 2 moa at 2000 yards even if the bullet is still supersonic. In addition extreme distance group sizes are usually measured by vertical spread and that's the kind of accuracy I am referring to is vertical spreads in my example. Horizontal spreads are sumwhat ignored to exclude unpredictable wind variables. So when you are asking your question and you want 1 moa horizontal spreads then it includes error for incorrect wind compensation that distorts the weapons accuracy. In addition hitting a 1 moa target with one round is not the same as shooting a 1 moa group.
The farther out you shoot the more it becomes a game of probability because of the larger group sizes and increased likelyhood of operator error. Thus the more rounds you fire or better yet the more snipers shooting simultaneously then the higher your probability becomes.
Millsd,
And I'm trying to tell you that the farther you get the bigger the MOA spread gets, a gun that shoots 1/4 moa at 100 yards may shoot 1/2 moa at 500 yards and 1 MOA at 1000 yards and 1.5 moa at 1500 yards and 2 moa at 2000 yards even if the bullet is still supersonic. In addition extreme distance group sizes are usually measured by vertical spread and that's the kind of accuracy I am referring to is vertical spreads in my example. Horizontal spreads are sumwhat ignored to exclude unpredictable wind variables. So when you are asking your question and you want 1 moa horizontal spreads then it includes error for incorrect wind compensation that distorts the weapons accuracy. In addition hitting a 1 moa target with one round is not the same as shooting a 1 moa group.
The farther out you shoot the more it becomes a game of probability because of the larger group sizes and increased likelyhood of operator error. Thus the more rounds you fire or better yet the more snipers shooting simultaneously then the higher your probability becomes.
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Millsd,
And I'm trying to tell you that the farther you get the bigger the MOA spread gets, a gun that shoots 1/4 moa at 100 yards may shoot 1/2 moa at 500 yards and 1 MOA at 1000 yards and 1.5 moa at 1500 yards and 2 moa at 2000 yards even if the bullet is still supersonic. In addition extreme distance group sizes are usually measured by vertical spread and that's the kind of accuracy I am referring to is vertical spreads in my example. Horizontal spreads are sumwhat ignored to exclude unpredictable wind variables. So when you are asking your question and you want 1 moa horizontal spreads then it includes error for incorrect wind compensation that distorts the weapons accuracy. In addition hitting a 1 moa target with one round is not the same as shooting a 1 moa group.
The farther out you shoot the more it becomes a game of probability because of the larger group sizes and increased likelihood of operator error.
</div></div>
I would concur with SR90's perspective. Vertical dispersion is the variable to measure of a rifles "accuracy" at distances past 1000 yards. Until a system is developed to measure the total effect of the environmental conditions on the horizontal plane, it is a measure of the shooter's or spotter's ability to call the wind.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Millsd,
And I'm trying to tell you that the farther you get the bigger the MOA spread gets, a gun that shoots 1/4 moa at 100 yards may shoot 1/2 moa at 500 yards and 1 MOA at 1000 yards and 1.5 moa at 1500 yards and 2 moa at 2000 yards even if the bullet is still supersonic. In addition extreme distance group sizes are usually measured by vertical spread and that's the kind of accuracy I am referring to is vertical spreads in my example. Horizontal spreads are sumwhat ignored to exclude unpredictable wind variables. So when you are asking your question and you want 1 moa horizontal spreads then it includes error for incorrect wind compensation that distorts the weapons accuracy. In addition hitting a 1 moa target with one round is not the same as shooting a 1 moa group.
The farther out you shoot the more it becomes a game of probability because of the larger group sizes and increased likelihood of operator error.
</div></div>
I would concur with SR90's perspective. Vertical dispersion is the variable to measure of a rifles "accuracy" at distances past 1000 yards. Until a system is developed to measure the total effect of the environmental conditions on the horizontal plane, it is a measure of the shooter's or spotter's ability to call the wind.
Re: What's your effective range???
Wind reading lasers are the key and when they come about a snipers effective range will double. Will they be inexpensive enough for the civilian market I doubt it unfortunately, at least not for 15+ yrs
Wind reading lasers are the key and when they come about a snipers effective range will double.
Will they be inexpensive enough for the civilian market I doubt it unfortunately, at least not for 15+ yrsRe: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind reading lasers are the key and when they come about a snipers effective range will double. Will they be inexpensive enough for the civilian market I doubt it unfortunately, at least not for 15+ yrs</div></div>
http://www.catchthewindinc.com/products/windseeker
I'm sure these are cheap. Then again, the bigger problem is likely that wind is not constant (given time and location), which becomes a problem when a bullet is in the air for several seconds over potentially thousands of yards. Having one integrated into a scope that sampled wind at varied distances over several seconds would definitely make a huge impact though. Hmmm...I think I'll go clean off that work bench and start to build one of those. Gotta put all that hard earned edjumacation to work at some point!
Then again...for true accuracy over distance, drop the rifle and go with a good chemical laser. Sure would take all the fun out of things though...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind reading lasers are the key and when they come about a snipers effective range will double.
Will they be inexpensive enough for the civilian market I doubt it unfortunately, at least not for 15+ yrs</div></div> http://www.catchthewindinc.com/products/windseeker
I'm sure these are cheap. Then again, the bigger problem is likely that wind is not constant (given time and location), which becomes a problem when a bullet is in the air for several seconds over potentially thousands of yards. Having one integrated into a scope that sampled wind at varied distances over several seconds would definitely make a huge impact though. Hmmm...I think I'll go clean off that work bench and start to build one of those. Gotta put all that hard earned edjumacation to work at some point!
Then again...for true accuracy over distance, drop the rifle and go with a good chemical laser. Sure would take all the fun out of things though...
Re: What's your effective range???
Israelis' already have these lol
http://www.itloptronics.com/products.asp?id=152&pr_id=4
Fire Control System aka "FOCUS"...the problem that some people will still run into even when using such is dependant on what weapon system/cartridge they use.
Some of the max ordinates of systems being used today are soo high in order to get on target at the ELRs' that the bullet is actually flying in a different different wind "sheet" so until that is accounted for then we still will be relying on proper planning and personal experience.
Thanks
Israelis' already have these lol
http://www.itloptronics.com/products.asp?id=152&pr_id=4
Fire Control System aka "FOCUS"...the problem that some people will still run into even when using such is dependant on what weapon system/cartridge they use.
Some of the max ordinates of systems being used today are soo high in order to get on target at the ELRs' that the bullet is actually flying in a different different wind "sheet" so until that is accounted for then we still will be relying on proper planning and personal experience.
Thanks
Re: What's your effective range???
I'm thinking about calling on the windseeker. I mean...how expensive could it possibly be?
I'm thinking about calling on the windseeker. I mean...how expensive could it possibly be?
Re: What's your effective range???
Yes I know they exist but I meant in the hands of snipers.
plus the existing units are quite big eventually they should be weapon mounted and significantly smaller.
Yes I know they exist but I meant in the hands of snipers.
Re: What's your effective range???
LOL...from the pic of the windseeker it looks like a standard set of binoculars. But upon further review, it is an 18 pound 15"x13.5"x5" giant. Guess the hand bars on the sides are for adjusting it while on a tripod, not to hold up and gaze down field...
Ok, I'm sending them an email anyway. And I'm going with at least $10k, but who knows with newly available technology.
LOL...from the pic of the windseeker it looks like a standard set of binoculars. But upon further review, it is an 18 pound 15"x13.5"x5" giant. Guess the hand bars on the sides are for adjusting it while on a tripod, not to hold up and gaze down field...
Ok, I'm sending them an email anyway. And I'm going with at least $10k, but who knows with newly available technology.
Re: What's your effective range???
Wow was I wrong. This thing is TOTALLY affordable! And best yet, you can just lease it so you don't have to throw down too much cash. hahaha
Here's the response from windseeker:
"Thank you for your interest in the Windseeker® Laser Wind Sensor. The price of the system is $149,500.00 USD. The delivery time is 16 weeks after receipt of deposit. A deposit of $10,000.00 USD is required with the order.
We are also setting up a leasing program. If that option appeals to you, please call for terms.
"
Wow was I wrong. This thing is TOTALLY affordable! And best yet, you can just lease it so you don't have to throw down too much cash. hahaha
Here's the response from windseeker:
"Thank you for your interest in the Windseeker® Laser Wind Sensor. The price of the system is $149,500.00 USD. The delivery time is 16 weeks after receipt of deposit. A deposit of $10,000.00 USD is required with the order.
We are also setting up a leasing program. If that option appeals to you, please call for terms.
"
Re: What's your effective range???
I can get on my targets at 1400 but it's not predictable so 1200 is about the farthest I can get an know I'm relatively on target. Maybe 4/5 shots will be on target. If the wind is blowing: forget it. As for MOA, I would say 800 is MOA for me with no wind.
I can get on my targets at 1400 but it's not predictable so 1200 is about the farthest I can get an know I'm relatively on target. Maybe 4/5 shots will be on target. If the wind is blowing: forget it. As for MOA, I would say 800 is MOA for me with no wind.
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind reading lasers are the key and when they come about a snipers effective range will double. Will they be inexpensive enough for the civilian market I doubt it unfortunately, at least not for 15+ yrs</div></div>
At least. Adaptive Optics are still relatively new to Astronomy...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wind reading lasers are the key and when they come about a snipers effective range will double.
Will they be inexpensive enough for the civilian market I doubt it unfortunately, at least not for 15+ yrs</div></div> At least. Adaptive Optics are still relatively new to Astronomy...
Re: What's your effective range???
I'm consistantly shooting under 1/2 moa vertical dispersion at 1000yds.... ( last target was about a 2.5-3.0" vertical ) Horizontal... well, that all depends on the day you're doing it. Most fairly calm days, I'm under 1moa at 1000yds, on some days with tricky wind that is gusting and changing directions, not so much.
I don't have a place to shoot farther.... that's with a 300wm
I'm consistantly shooting under 1/2 moa vertical dispersion at 1000yds.... ( last target was about a 2.5-3.0" vertical ) Horizontal... well, that all depends on the day you're doing it. Most fairly calm days, I'm under 1moa at 1000yds, on some days with tricky wind that is gusting and changing directions, not so much.
I don't have a place to shoot farther.... that's with a 300wm
Re: What's your effective range???
Current: At 1K and with my 308 AE and match ammo, first round hit within 24 inches most conditions (<15mph wind). Then within 15 inches after first round spot. Hold vertical dispersion to velocity difference in the load.
Desired: Within 15 inches at first round and within 10 inches after.
I'd love to say that I can shoot 1 MOA at 1K, but those wind calls can get pretty tough with 308--even at less than 5mph.
With my 300WM, add 200 (still getting dope on this).
With my 308 REPR, deduct 300 (still getting used to it).
Current: At 1K and with my 308 AE and match ammo, first round hit within 24 inches most conditions (<15mph wind). Then within 15 inches after first round spot. Hold vertical dispersion to velocity difference in the load.
Desired: Within 15 inches at first round and within 10 inches after.
I'd love to say that I can shoot 1 MOA at 1K, but those wind calls can get pretty tough with 308--even at less than 5mph.
With my 300WM, add 200 (still getting dope on this).
With my 308 REPR, deduct 300 (still getting used to it).
Re: What's your effective range???
If we can rent the windseeker by the minute I'm in! 3 minutes please .
If we can rent the windseeker by the minute I'm in! 3 minutes please .
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I know is, the older I get, the better I was. </div></div>
Ain't that the truth.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All I know is, the older I get, the better I was. </div></div>
Ain't that the truth.
Re: What's your effective range???
260 Rem, 123 scenars, i can bang 12x12 inch plate all day. 1500, it opens up a bit, but keeps under 2 moa. 1000 is my feel very confortable range.
260 Rem, 123 scenars, i can bang 12x12 inch plate all day. 1500, it opens up a bit, but keeps under 2 moa. 1000 is my feel very confortable range.
Re: What's your effective range???
I consistantly hit (cold bore) a man size silhouette at 800 yards (center mass). I also shoot consistant sub-minute groups (5 shot)out to 800 yards.
I consistantly hit (cold bore) a man size silhouette at 800 yards (center mass). I also shoot consistant sub-minute groups (5 shot)out to 800 yards.
Re: What's your effective range???
I'm sure anything within 600-700 yds I can hit in about any conditions if I know the range is good with my .260 I have had first round hits at 1200 yds and corrected hits at 1650 to a mile with it. Unpredictable though. Last tactical match I was in my first 3 shots at a small target at 1K I had hits on so I know I can do it. First rounds hits are what I'm after so I say 700 yds should be easily doable in most conditions. But I have had my misses at that range too. (and closer at times)
I'm sure anything within 600-700 yds I can hit in about any conditions if I know the range is good with my .260 I have had first round hits at 1200 yds and corrected hits at 1650 to a mile with it. Unpredictable though. Last tactical match I was in my first 3 shots at a small target at 1K I had hits on so I know I can do it. First rounds hits are what I'm after so I say 700 yds should be easily doable in most conditions. But I have had my misses at that range too. (and closer at times)
Re: What's your effective range???
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure anything within 600-700 yds I can hit in about any conditions if I know the range is good with my .260 I have had first round hits at 1200 yds and corrected hits at 1650 to a mile with it. Unpredictable though. Last tactical match I was in my first 3 shots at a small target at 1K I had hits on so I know I can do it. First rounds hits are what I'm after so I say 700 yds should be easily doable in most conditions. But I have had my misses at that range too. (and closer at times) </div></div>
is that 1/2 moa anything or 4 moa anything?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RobertB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm sure anything within 600-700 yds I can hit in about any conditions if I know the range is good with my .260 I have had first round hits at 1200 yds and corrected hits at 1650 to a mile with it. Unpredictable though. Last tactical match I was in my first 3 shots at a small target at 1K I had hits on so I know I can do it. First rounds hits are what I'm after so I say 700 yds should be easily doable in most conditions. But I have had my misses at that range too. (and closer at times) </div></div>
is that 1/2 moa anything or 4 moa anything?
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