Gunsmithing whats your favorite reamer holder

[skeetlee]

Im kinda in the market for a different reamer holder so I thought I would see what some of you fellas like to use. I made a bald eagle type holder but im not 100% happy with it. I have seen some reamer bushing marks up in front of the chamber on my last two barrels. I don't like that, and im thinking I may have some type of deflection going on. I will say it doesn't hurt anything as one of the barrels won a two gun in Kansas city BR match, and the other shoots in the 1's. None the less I don't want them there.
I have also been wacked in the knuckles a couple times over the last few years, so I am thinking a one piece holder may be the way I go?? Anyway what do you folks like to use, and why?? lee

 

[Rprecision]

The one I made, its basically a hollow tube that allows for radial misalignment. I have a tap wrench that has been trued up that I push

 

[Straight Shooter]

I like the JGS holder.

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

I've been turning out some nice chambers with my Manson floating holder, but honestly besides the Bald eagle it's the only one I've tried.

 

[STR]

None of my business what you do, but with results like that from a home made copy of the original, why go looking for something better? BTW, you got knuckle busted because you bound the reamer with too big of a cut. I have the Bald Eagle, but also have the Manson. Both work well, but the feeling I get from holding the Bald Eagle is better for me. I hold it lightly in case I mess up and it comes out of my hand. This might save my reamer from breaking. This just work for me, and I understand that it might not be best for others.

 

[E. Bryant]

I like the PTG holder.

 

[scotharr]

I use the Greg Tannel non-floating holder and get great results. But you need to have your tailstock perfectly dialed in for this to be an option.

 

[LRI]

Get an ER32 holder, mount to your carriage, and never look back.

 

[MDM]

I use one made by RockJag4 (John Graziano) from the Accurate Shooter forums. It is similar to a bald eagle but has a radius on the pusher and a slightly different radius in the holder. Its been working very well.

 

[ugsly]

Running a JGS and havent had any problems, but I dont cut a ton of chambers like some do.

Casey

 

[LRI]

Just spent some time with my tooling vendor.

We just changed this game for the cnc guys. This is gonna be bad ass!~

 

[300sniper]

Just spent some time with my tooling vendor.

We just changed this game for the cnc guys. This is gonna be bad ass!~

Do tell before I spend any more money!!!

 

[LRI]

Nope. This one stays here for now. Lemme make sure it works first.

 

[Clark]

I use a home made tap holder that rides on a low compliance surface, the compound [to prevent chattering], but I lift it up occasionally with my finger to verify the toque is low [to prevent dulling and eccentricity] as a feedback loop on how fast I can advance the tailstock. I push the reamer with a modified #3 Morse taper arbor.

I learned the torque part from the late gunsmith Randy Ketchum, who had a 12' lathe. His lathe was so big he put a piece of shotgun barrel over the tap handle and ran it along the ways. Then he lifted the barrel every few seconds for a moment to feel that the torque was still low. Randy could communicate with some great gunsmith like Beginski, or some putz like me. He is missed.

I learned the modified #3 morse taper pusher from Mike Bryant's web site ~ 2002.

 

[McLarenross]

I took the Bald Eagle concept and moved it to my carriage. Works great for me.

 

[skeetlee]

Ive been playing a little in the shop. I haven't used this one yet, but I have high hopes. Lee

 

[bigngreen]

I've been using the Gretan holder and have had excellent results but I recently bought a PTG holder and it has worked well so far can't say I've seen much difference though the idea of a full floating reamer holder gives some guys the warm fuzzies so I though I'd try one, I do like that it is adjustable for tension because I push with the carriage and I want the reamer to come straight out then roll right back in after clearing the chips. One thing I refuse to do is hold a reamer by hand or have something that can spin, just ain't worth it for any reason!!!

 

[Straight Shooter]

One thing I refuse to do is hold a reamer by hand or have something that can spin, just ain't worth it for any reason!!!

Agreed

 

[my human host]

I run a Manson with the screws that hold the aluminum head on a few turns out. This allows me to push the reamer into the bore/chamber by hand to make sure it's centered up before the steel push plate makes contact with the floating head.

 

[300sniper]

I'll be running this one very shortly...

 

[ajwcotton]

I'll be running this one very shortly...

You guys and your CNC machines...

 

[Powermac]

I do not think 300 has intention of using it on a cnc, from what i have seen before at least he has a normal lathe.

I highy suspect he is looking to mount it to his carriage, using it as a reamer holder with a ER 32 collet as Chad mentioned earlier in the post.
Mounting it directly to the carriage through a self made fixture or modifying a toolholder for boring bars would both work.

If anyone is looking to do the same take a closer look at the Rego fix MicRun (MR) 32 collet series and holders, they're expensive but you pay for quality, they are a superb and guarantees a maximum TIR of 0.00008'.

One of they're Floating chucks with the same setup would make a serious floating reamer holder btw for anyone using reamers with pilots.

Not the only one who has had that idea come up.

 

[Clark]

guarantees a maximum TIR of 0.00008'.

You can find a relationship between precision shooting and ammo runout, both mathematically and empirically.
This was explained by the army, the NRA, and A. ABBATIELLO "Gauging Bullet Tilt", with up to 2 moa involved, and the chamber bending the ammo straight beyond .004" runout.
There is not the same mechanism for chamber runout, as it does not vary rotationally from shot to shot like ammo.
I was forced to figure this out when I chambered a rifle with .005" runout [forgot to deburr after parting tool] that barrel was a hummer.

The point is that the relationship between precision and accuracy to chamber runout is tenuous at best.

 

[300sniper]

I am going to be using it in a turning center.

As far as a rigid holder on a manual, I'd planned on doweling a steel block onto the top of my cross slide toward the rear so it was out of the way of the tool post. Once this block is bolted to the cross slide, using a drill in the spindle, drill the block. Then use a boring head in the spindle to true it. The use a reamer in the spindle to get the hole to the exact size of your tool holder shank. This should be about as dead nuts aligned with the spindle as possible. Sweep in your x each time and go to town.

 

[LRI]

It arrived yesterday. Couple hours on the hone opening an adapter and we were rockin!

I found a hydraulic tool holder. Changes everything. Prior to this I used an ER32 collet holder similar to whats been shown here already. Works great except for one little issue. Collets move the tool as the tool is tightened. This alters a value critical in cnc machines. Making it impossible to remove/reload a tool in the exact same position regarding its length. (Tool length offsets...)

The hydraulic unit doesnt do this. You get perfect repeatability every time. NOW FINALLY we can preset ALL of our reamers, build a simple database, and GO! No more touching off the reamer each time. No more creeping up on chamber depths.

This will make this job stupid simple for us now. Installed and running late yesterday afternoon. Don ran two 6mm Comp Match barrels. Both headspaced exactly the same. No a wisp of difference.

cool chit!

 

[McLarenross]

Thats damn impressive Chad. I cant wait to get me a CNC center to play with.

 

[MarinePMI]

Hmmm..makes me wonder if this is how AI and others are turning out barrels for the AI rifles, so that they don't require them to be sent back for fitting...

 

[300sniper]

It arrived yesterday. Couple hours on the hone opening an adapter and we were rockin!

I found a hydraulic tool holder. Changes everything. Prior to this I used an ER32 collet holder similar to whats been shown here already. Works great except for one little issue. Collets move the tool as the tool is tightened. This alters a value critical in cnc machines. Making it impossible to remove/reload a tool in the exact same position regarding its length. (Tool length offsets...)

The hydraulic unit doesnt do this. You get perfect repeatability every time. NOW FINALLY we can preset ALL of our reamers, build a simple database, and GO! No more touching off the reamer each time. No more creeping up on chamber depths.

This will make this job stupid simple for us now. Installed and running late yesterday afternoon. Don ran two 6mm Comp Match barrels. Both headspaced exactly the same. No a wisp of difference.

cool chit!

Does your turret use bolt on tool holders? Did you find a straight shank hydraulic chuck or have one made?

And I finally have mine up and running, learning how to program a lathe now.

test vid:

looks like it works:

 

[LRI]

Found one. Schunk outa saurkraut makes it.

gotta love the bratwursts!

 

[jelrod1]

I have 8 or 9 Schunk hydraulic holders and agree they are the ticket for repeatability and tool life. Techniks also makes reducer bushings that interchange with them and are a little cheaper. Time will come when you have to have them rebuilt depending on how much use they see. It becomes known when the tool spins in the holder. Other than a few rebuilds, only problems I've had are when trochoidal milling various steels and the tool spinning in them even when new. They hold plenty well enough for normal milling, reaming, and such and are very precise.

 

[LRI]

Hmmm..makes me wonder if this is how AI and others are turning out barrels for the AI rifles, so that they don't require them to be sent back for fitting...

Yes and no.


If you keep the distance from the face of the action to the lug abutments within a tight tolerance (say +/- .0005") then that's a big step.

The next critical factor is ensuring that the distance from the backside of the bolt lugs to the face of the bolt is consistent (again, +/- .0005")

This is not easy, but its easy to get it working well.

Step one: A cnc milling center with a spindle chiller. This mitigates heat induced growth and elongation of the tool in the spindle/tool holder.
Step two: A careful warmup procedure. Box way machines are generally considered "stiffer" than linear way machines. Box ways also depend on a micro thin film of oil. The work table on these machines often weigh close to 1000lbs. Overnight the weight will squish the oil and the table settles. Might only be a few .0001's, but it's measurable and it happens. So, you have a warmup cycle when you fire up in the am. Let the bedway come up to its running height before you make chips. Keep the machine going over lunch by breaking up lunch breaks into two shifts. Otherwise you have to warm it up again. Same with the spindle.
Step three: Use the same tool to face, bore, and qualify the lug surfaces in the action. This eliminates a tolerance stack from multiple tools.

Last, probe your parts post op while they are still fixtured. Modern machines are almost like CMM's that make chips. You can qualify your work in the machine automatically. A Renishaw probe will do this. Just takes money. (around 20K by the time your done)

This can almost eliminate the big mistakes as long as your careful. Go crazy with a probe and you'll go broke quickly. Real easy to crash one and that really sux the checkbook dry...

Get it figured out and its relatively easy.


C.

 

[MarinePMI]

I see what you're saying. I was thinking about AI's internal ring, that apparently sets the headspace (at least that's how I understood it from the reading of the AT/AXMC quick lock barrel system). I really need to sit down and tear mine down, but I have a match this weekend.

I guess I was thinking that if AI adjusted the action/headspace to the barrel in the factory, and if they could accurately reproduce the barrel dimensions/chambers, then that would explain their ability to make barrels that headspace correctly to any of their AT/AXMC actions. (Since it would seem every rifle/action is set to a specific and common barrel dimension, not like traditionally setting the barrel to action face/lug abutment.)

Maybe I've got it wrong?