What's your favorite WW2 and older bolt rifle and why?
- Thread starter steve123
- Start date
I can't speak for them but I can list a few of my own reasons.
1. I like the sights of the A1. Very classic yet highly functional. There are multiple apertures for different situations and it can be set from 100-2400 yds.
2. I like the feel of the original C-stocks. The reproductions feel kind of slim in the grip area.
3. Good ammo is available everywhere and for any application. Good luck finding 303 at walmart
4. I like that I can get a practically new rifle. I personally want one of the Rock Ridge Machine Works Mark 1 rebuilds with the new barrel but they're kind of hard to find.
5. American pride and preference.
6. The A1 doesn't look out of place with a vintage target scope installed. I'm hoping for a Fecker 1 1/8" 8x myself.
I'm not really sure if they are inherently more accurate but they appear to be configured in a way more conducive to precision shooting. This is personal opinion and you may find other wise. I would take an A1 over an A3 but I'd take either and plan to buy both. Third choice would be a Husqvarna M38 with turned down bolt. I would consider this to be on par with a straight stocked 1903A3 in terms of shootability.
This echoes my thoughts. Also they can be purchased relatively cheap (admittedly don't know what the other rifles go for.) Just got a used 1903 for $400 online but that is on the low side. Cant wait to shoot it. Darn other rifles keep cutting in line. But the ease of finding ammo would be a factor high on the list.
Good problem to have! ha
Regards,
DT
Ended up getting this 1903 as an accessory to the scope I posted earlier....
It wasnt the best day for shooting, high humidty and my glasses were fogging making already difficult (yet precise) sights that much more difficult. Still with the 46.5 Varget load I use on my other 30-06 milsurps it did just fine.....
Unertl scope blocks ordered tonight. The rifle goes to Denver next week for the blocks to be mounted. Hopefully within 4-6 weeks I get it back to give an optics mounted 1903 a try.
It wasnt the best day for shooting, high humidty and my glasses were fogging making already difficult (yet precise) sights that much more difficult. Still with the 46.5 Varget load I use on my other 30-06 milsurps it did just fine.....
Unertl scope blocks ordered tonight. The rifle goes to Denver next week for the blocks to be mounted. Hopefully within 4-6 weeks I get it back to give an optics mounted 1903 a try.
The problem with "which is my favorite" is I keep changing my mind. Its the Garand, when I'm shooting it, or my 03a3, Krag, M1917, Carbine..........then yesterday I took my M1903A4. That is the current "cat's meow.
That thing is sweet, temped to take it elk hunting next week.
That thing is sweet, temped to take it elk hunting next week.
Hello,
I really like the
Mosin Nagant
• It comes in basically unfinished condition. After spending time finishing the mating points of the bolt etc it runs smoothly.
• It's capable of MOA, as proved by the Finns. These are select rifles with select barrels, and with proper inletting, often done by the solder or the end user when the rifle became surplus. With proper ammo, it's more precise than it has any right to be.
• For those who like to build guns, it's a wet dream. You get it running right, handload for it, shoot it, then do all the hand fitting that should have been done to a rifle of that time. It's like the 1911 of the rifle world, but it starts more crudely than the 1911 ever did.
Gewehr 88 Series
• The Gewehr 88 was the first smokeless military rifle adopted by Germany.
• In 88/05 form, it takes stripper clips and did away with the en bloc clip, making it more versatile.
• It is basically a target rifle. It is very well inletted, has a sleeved barrel, and is pillar bedded -- all from the factory in Amberg in 1892.
• When I got mine I didn't know what it was. The gunshop owner didn't know, either, so he let me have it for $50 OTD. After cleaning it up and grabbing some 8x57 dies for it, I loaded some starting loads which were about equal in pressure and bullet weight to the original 7.92x57 M88 load developed for it. After it did 1.2moa with open sights at 100 yards, I started researching the different markings. I also had low pressure signs, and turns out the markings said that the rifle had been modified for the 0.323" bullet (as opposed to the original 0.318" bullet). I loaded it with one and dang... got tighter groups.
Wants
• M1 Carbine. No, it's not precise. No, it's not powerful. It is lightweight and would fill a niche need that I have. This niche was filled by a Marlin Camp 45 once, and I foolishly sold that lil' carbine after fixing it up with a buffer and heavier action spring.
• M1 Garand. No explanation needed. It's a Garand.
• M1a. It's the closest I can get to an M14, and there's lots of stuff I can do to it to make it "mine".
Just my thoughts and choices.
Regards,
Josh
I really like the
Mosin Nagant
• It comes in basically unfinished condition. After spending time finishing the mating points of the bolt etc it runs smoothly.
• It's capable of MOA, as proved by the Finns. These are select rifles with select barrels, and with proper inletting, often done by the solder or the end user when the rifle became surplus. With proper ammo, it's more precise than it has any right to be.
• For those who like to build guns, it's a wet dream. You get it running right, handload for it, shoot it, then do all the hand fitting that should have been done to a rifle of that time. It's like the 1911 of the rifle world, but it starts more crudely than the 1911 ever did.
Gewehr 88 Series
• The Gewehr 88 was the first smokeless military rifle adopted by Germany.
• In 88/05 form, it takes stripper clips and did away with the en bloc clip, making it more versatile.
• It is basically a target rifle. It is very well inletted, has a sleeved barrel, and is pillar bedded -- all from the factory in Amberg in 1892.
• When I got mine I didn't know what it was. The gunshop owner didn't know, either, so he let me have it for $50 OTD. After cleaning it up and grabbing some 8x57 dies for it, I loaded some starting loads which were about equal in pressure and bullet weight to the original 7.92x57 M88 load developed for it. After it did 1.2moa with open sights at 100 yards, I started researching the different markings. I also had low pressure signs, and turns out the markings said that the rifle had been modified for the 0.323" bullet (as opposed to the original 0.318" bullet). I loaded it with one and dang... got tighter groups.
Wants
• M1 Carbine. No, it's not precise. No, it's not powerful. It is lightweight and would fill a niche need that I have. This niche was filled by a Marlin Camp 45 once, and I foolishly sold that lil' carbine after fixing it up with a buffer and heavier action spring.
• M1 Garand. No explanation needed. It's a Garand.
• M1a. It's the closest I can get to an M14, and there's lots of stuff I can do to it to make it "mine".
Just my thoughts and choices.
Regards,
Josh
LOL That would be boring as hell.
But I apologize for slipping in group picture the 1944 G43 scoped self-loading rifle. Pulled it down.
..MJ...
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I'm enjoying all of your pics and commentary guys, thanks.
I shot both the K31 and 91/30 again today offhand on 8 different sized steel at various distances out to 150Y. The K-31 is a joy to shoot! In fact I didn't miss with the 10 rounds I shot out of it. It's just easy to hit with?!?! I can't help being impressed with it.
The 91/30 is novel but doesn't float my boat all that much.
I'm still looking for a 03 to try or whatever else comes along.
I shot both the K31 and 91/30 again today offhand on 8 different sized steel at various distances out to 150Y. The K-31 is a joy to shoot! In fact I didn't miss with the 10 rounds I shot out of it. It's just easy to hit with?!?! I can't help being impressed with it.
The 91/30 is novel but doesn't float my boat all that much.
I'm still looking for a 03 to try or whatever else comes along.
I've really enjoyed shooting, and reloading for, my Mosin Nagant Sniper. It will join me on a deer hunt this fall. Once you've broken the weapon down, cleaned it thoroughly, and torqued it to spec the old war horse still produces 2MOA results with factory match or reloads. Soft loads with 125gn pills are a lot of fun and still pack enough energy for medium game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV9GJIJzs8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzV9GJIJzs8
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Excellent post there BravoSector1! I very much enjoy my two Mosin-Nagant. One is an Izhevsk the other is a Tula. Both run about two MOA with open sights @ 100 yds. Slightly better with handloads using Norma brass, and slightly less with spam-can ammo. Spam-can ammo is pretty accurate out of these considering the things I see wrong with it.
BasraBoy
You have a great point about the cycling action speed of the Enfield. Contrary to what many think the cock-on-close is much faster. While not lending itself well to the occasional hot round, no Rem 700 did either, but I digress as those are not pre-WWII. The Enfield No4's are much faster than any of the mauser based actions. The Enfield No 3's (P-14's) and U.S. Model of 1917's come right after them. Just a whole lot faster to cycle that way. Accuracy in either is inherent in the quality of the build. I had no problem ringing minute of man(steel plate) with my No. 4 Mk 1* @ 500 yds.
You have a great point about the cycling action speed of the Enfield. Contrary to what many think the cock-on-close is much faster. While not lending itself well to the occasional hot round, no Rem 700 did either, but I digress as those are not pre-WWII. The Enfield No4's are much faster than any of the mauser based actions. The Enfield No 3's (P-14's) and U.S. Model of 1917's come right after them. Just a whole lot faster to cycle that way. Accuracy in either is inherent in the quality of the build. I had no problem ringing minute of man(steel plate) with my No. 4 Mk 1* @ 500 yds.
Well I love my Garand in .308 but one of the best shooting rifles I own and is a 30-06, 1917 Eddystone Enfield. Some say the Enfield not the Springfield is the rifle Sargent York used in WWI. I cut the barrel back to 23 inches and made it into hunting rifle years ago. This gun loves surplus ball ammo and will shoot it under an inch all day long. I've never shot match ammo through it and it really likes 150 grain PMC.
I work 10min from Chuck. He does great work. You will be happy. He refinished my A4 stock and put it together for me after years of slowly gathering the parts. Very knowledgeable that one. He also did my A1.
My 2. Still need optics for the A1 and horizontal 7/8" scope rings for the A4 & M84 scope. The A1 is classic and the A4 is more racy to me. Not sure which I like better. Will find out prob once I get to shoot them.
Regards,
DT
Attachments
Thank you for the boost to my decision making. Chuck comes with a lot of positive reviews.
Your rifles are great. He is going to refinish my C stock because there is a crack in the tang. I was wondering what it might look like an dnow I know.
Fed Ex tracking shows mine should be in Denver on Thursday. I hope it stays away from the marijuana and Hickenpooper doesnt declare it illegal and confiscate it. Sad it may be in more danger in CO than MA but after the way you guys picked off politicians on recall I bet the turds have gone into their little shells.
Got my hands on two more. Yugo M48A Mauser and Steyr M95. Report and pics to come.
Is $1000 for a 04 clone with Unertal 8x scope a decent price?
Is $1000 for a 04 clone with Unertal 8x scope a decent price?
A Unertl 8X will go for $1000 alone more often than not. Depends on the model of Unertl. The USMC used a 1.25 Target and they are in high demand. If marked USMC its a $5K plus scope.
An 03 with a Unertl is not an A4 it becomes a USMC M1903 with telescopic sight sometimes referred to as a M1941.
Edit - Im assuming the Unertl is a type with external mounts not a HAWK or whatever their internal adjustment scopes were branded.
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Hopefully the rain will hold off so I can shoot the new ones today.
L to R Swiss K-31~ 7.5x55, Yugo M48A~ 8x57, Steyr M95~8x56R, Mosin Nagant 91/30~ 7.62x54R.
L to R Swiss K-31~ 7.5x55, Yugo M48A~ 8x57, Steyr M95~8x56R, Mosin Nagant 91/30~ 7.62x54R.
Well the Steyr M95 was fun to shoot but it was hitting about 2 feet high at 100Y so it was hard to hit the steel having to aim so low. The action is kind of stiff, to actuate I have to give it a firm pull and push. Trigger isn't the greatest, It's somewhat similar to the 91/30.
Likes...I like how the clip falls out the bottom on the last round, how light and handy the rifle is and that it is a strait pull bolt. It's very unique.
I really like the M48A. I really can't complain about anything, it functioned perfectly and the trigger is okay. Easy to shoot is how I could describe it. I think I'll buy some dies and brass and start reloading for it so I can see how accurate it is.
Likes...I like how the clip falls out the bottom on the last round, how light and handy the rifle is and that it is a strait pull bolt. It's very unique.
I really like the M48A. I really can't complain about anything, it functioned perfectly and the trigger is okay. Easy to shoot is how I could describe it. I think I'll buy some dies and brass and start reloading for it so I can see how accurate it is.
1st German k98 Bnz 43 under 500 serial#, SS contract rifle 8x57 UN-screwed with original, its a sniper model that was filled in on the left side of the receiver. (side mount) (world war two bring back by family)
2nd my ex girlfriends rifle that i built in the shop ,Turkish 98 in 22-243 mlsd wildcat. took it away from her,she was ungodly Scary with it.
3rd is a 1891 Mauser in 358 Winchester. All custom of course, the only thing good on this and the second rifle was the action to begin with.
( now FOR Reloaders)
little advice for these old rifles is that most of them have shot out barrels. lead cast bullets tuned in @ 1500- 2000 fps depending on what the barrel liked delivered 1 inch groups @100 yards after it fouled in. 15 to 20 shots ill do. Find the sweet spot. After you have it shooting good run a patch down the barrel and go have fun. Do not scrub the bore!!, the reason i say this is because the build up of lead is whats making it shoot by filling in the bad parts of the barrel. The bore cant rust either because of the wax used when casting bullets . This info might be useful for any one getting bad group sizes, and if you cast bullets?, the heavier the bullet the better.I have about 2000 rounds through the German pictured here and even shot at a couple military rifle matches with it. any questions? pm me.
The German would have to be my best shooter for the price of reloading for it is right around 30-45 cents a shot and i cant really wear it out with lead. Sorry the lighting sucked on the pics. there's alot of sweet shooters on this thread, nice rifles all!!
2nd my ex girlfriends rifle that i built in the shop ,Turkish 98 in 22-243 mlsd wildcat. took it away from her,she was ungodly Scary with it.
3rd is a 1891 Mauser in 358 Winchester. All custom of course, the only thing good on this and the second rifle was the action to begin with.
( now FOR Reloaders)
little advice for these old rifles is that most of them have shot out barrels.
lead cast bullets tuned in @ 1500- 2000 fps depending on what the barrel liked delivered 1 inch groups @100 yards after it fouled in. 15 to 20 shots ill do. Find the sweet spot. After you have it shooting good run a patch down the barrel and go have fun. Do not scrub the bore!!, the reason i say this is because the build up of lead is whats making it shoot by filling in the bad parts of the barrel. The bore cant rust either because of the wax used when casting bullets . This info might be useful for any one getting bad group sizes, and if you cast bullets?, the heavier the bullet the better.I have about 2000 rounds through the German pictured here and even shot at a couple military rifle matches with it. any questions? pm me.The German would have to be my best shooter for the price of reloading for it is right around 30-45 cents a shot and i cant really wear it out with lead. Sorry the lighting sucked on the pics. there's alot of sweet shooters on this thread, nice rifles all!!
This will be mounted on the new 03A1 I put on hold today.
Intent will be a USMC M1941 sniper (sort of).
pmclaine,
It's been a while since I've been back to the post and looked through it in it's entirety.....I just noticed a complete and warm "fuzzy" feeling came over me.
I shook like a dog and it didn't go away. Nice scope and rifle. Can't wait for the 'finished' pics!pmclaine,
It's been a while since I've been back to the post and looked through it in it's entirety.....I just noticed a complete and warm "fuzzy" feeling came over me.
Got word from Chuck in Denver that he should be shipping it back to me next week. I was going to stress myself out getting the mounts on the scope anodized black to make it more USMC snipery but aftter I had a small problem removing the recoil spring assembly I figured stop screwing with that old tube and put it back together.
Cant wait to shoot this thing.
Turns out it's a Hi-lux copy. Still a good price for the 03 with scope mounted. I'm hoping he'll find the irons.
$500 scope and if in any shape at all minimum $500 rifle. If its in a prewar C stock (S or S over O in cutoff) the stock can be $200-300 alone.
The only issue with the HiLux scopes is the hardware it seems. I read many are changing the hardware out to hardened USA screws. Many also use Steve Earle mount blocks.
If it was built right $1000 will give you a relatively cheap CMP sniper match legal rifle. Mine will be neither.
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How long are your arms?
I'm 6'3" tall with long arms. My 03 Mk1 with the standard stock just beats the crap out of me. About 5 to 10 rounds and my cheek is pretty beat up. The stock is so short my nose is almost on the cocking knob and I can't get a thumb over the wrist of the stock and still see the sights like I need to. My M1917's are much better. Bigger, longer rifle. My 03A4 has a Type C stock on it and it also fits me pretty well.
What ever you choose, get a sling on it and learn to use the sling when you shoot. It'll help the groups and the recoil.
I'm 6'3" tall with long arms. My 03 Mk1 with the standard stock just beats the crap out of me. About 5 to 10 rounds and my cheek is pretty beat up. The stock is so short my nose is almost on the cocking knob and I can't get a thumb over the wrist of the stock and still see the sights like I need to. My M1917's are much better. Bigger, longer rifle. My 03A4 has a Type C stock on it and it also fits me pretty well.
What ever you choose, get a sling on it and learn to use the sling when you shoot. It'll help the groups and the recoil.
I have a certain respect for the M39 Finnish rifle that goes without saying, for those that know the history.
In the past few years, I have become enamored with the Steyr Mannlicher Schönauer 6.5x54 carbine, mainly because of the rotary magazine, craftsmanship, and the caliber.
I also like the Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55, which is the ballistics winner for any vintage long range competition. I've seen corroded box ammo from the early part of the last century smoke 175gr SMK's all day long during a long range shooting clinic in the hands of a teenage girl who was new to long range shooting. She repeatedly was ringing the flagger IPSC at 700yds like it was easy, to the point that she thought long range shooting was no big deal, and that we had spent too much emphasis on trying to teach its intricacies.
In the past few years, I have become enamored with the Steyr Mannlicher Schönauer 6.5x54 carbine, mainly because of the rotary magazine, craftsmanship, and the caliber.
I also like the Swedish Mausers in 6.5x55, which is the ballistics winner for any vintage long range competition. I've seen corroded box ammo from the early part of the last century smoke 175gr SMK's all day long during a long range shooting clinic in the hands of a teenage girl who was new to long range shooting. She repeatedly was ringing the flagger IPSC at 700yds like it was easy, to the point that she thought long range shooting was no big deal, and that we had spent too much emphasis on trying to teach its intricacies.
Old thread but I'm gonna chime in anyway.
For accuracy, one only had to look to the CMP Vintage Rifle Games where these rifles go head to head.
The best scores fired are those of the Springfield's. The cut off scores for the Springfield is higher then even those of the Garand, in addition to the Military (other rifles) as to the badges awarded.
Also, if the CMP Vintage Rifle Matches the Springfield's out shine the others.
Granted, you will find an exception at a given match, but in the games overall, the Springfield wins.
My favorite is the M1903a3. I can like the sights better then those on the 1903. As to the Vintage Sniper, I go with the A4. Granted the M1942 style win more matches but I'm army, I cant be shooting a marine rifle.
For accuracy, one only had to look to the CMP Vintage Rifle Games where these rifles go head to head.
The best scores fired are those of the Springfield's. The cut off scores for the Springfield is higher then even those of the Garand, in addition to the Military (other rifles) as to the badges awarded.
Also, if the CMP Vintage Rifle Matches the Springfield's out shine the others.
Granted, you will find an exception at a given match, but in the games overall, the Springfield wins.
My favorite is the M1903a3. I can like the sights better then those on the 1903. As to the Vintage Sniper, I go with the A4. Granted the M1942 style win more matches but I'm army, I cant be shooting a marine rifle.
I don't have photos readily available but heres my list
1) bnz 43 K98 mauser
2) 03 Springfield
3) SMLE Enfield 1917
4) mosin nagant 35 hex receiver
The Mauser and Springfield shoot knots, even witn my eyes.
Love the looks of a Mauser personally I think its the best looking of the miltary bolt guns
1) bnz 43 K98 mauser
2) 03 Springfield
3) SMLE Enfield 1917
4) mosin nagant 35 hex receiver
The Mauser and Springfield shoot knots, even witn my eyes.
Love the looks of a Mauser personally I think its the best looking of the miltary bolt guns
Kraig, the Marine rifle doesn't win more because it is more accurate than the A4, it wins because of the 8 power scope compared to the 2.5 power scope of the A4. I have built about 4 A4's, because you can use any sporterized 03 or A3 as a base and not have to ruin a good 03 of any variation, and they all shoot well. Several other comments about the 03, A3, are the ammo they used was the M1 ball ammo, which used the 173 grain bullet and most 03 and A3 and Garand's are more accurate with 175/180 grain bullets, than with the 150 grain bullet. Also in the 70's, the 1917's were popular for building magnums, but the actions had cracks in them, when they were magnafluxed, so none of the guys I knew had one built into a magnum and most stopped shooting them. Also, I used a sporterized 03 as my main hunting rifle, from 69 until I stopped hunting big game, in Washington and then Alaska, in the 90's, but I still have it and shoot it some.
K31 hands down. Then the Swedish Mausers. The Finnish M39 and the Lee Enfield No 4 tie for third place.
Ok for low recoil and distance going to be hard to beat the swede. But no one has mentioned the K31 that I have seen. You can use Surplus ammo and be right in there. I've shot mine out to a grand and if can get the aperture sights for it not giving up much to scope. Something to think about.
I came here to mention the K31! My only vintage is a Tula Nagant, but the K31 is next on my list.
Of all the WWII rifles I've owned and shot, I kinda still have to say it's the Grand for all around. Close send is the Mexican 1936, K-31 and Swede M38 follow. Now that I've shot a few, 1903A3
If you were to say sniper rifle, it would be a toss-up between a K-98 w/4X Zeiss or a Swede M41B..
If you were to say sniper rifle, it would be a toss-up between a K-98 w/4X Zeiss or a Swede M41B..
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I didn't realize this thread had been transferred over til just now.
A recap.
Long story short, the plinking for quarters with the old rifles caused me to spend a bunch of $ on four different old rifles. I won some quarters with them but my friends talked into trying Silhouette with Vintage rifles.
I tried my hand with the K31 first, which shoots excellent near as I could tell - but truth be told the irons were too hard for me to see with my oldish eyes.
Turned out a wealthy friend had a bunch of original WW2 original sniper rifles complete with their counterpart old scopes. The deal was to test them and compare, then load him up some ammo in exchange. Oh boy, hands rubbing together, right on! He let me borrow about 20,000 worth of these things!
I had the most success with the Swedish Mauser, damn I can't even remember the scope but it was 4x. I got the record in that club for vintage sniper to that point in time and won the match. 33/40 IIRC. 140 hybrids at 2650 fps was the key, plus the rifle was the most accurate of all of them. Kicked ass in the wind too.
Next was the Springfields, tried 3 of them including a brand new reproduction, friend hadn't even shot it yet. The Marine with 8x scope was my favorite. Won VS division just not the match that day. Gotta watch out for those black powder buffalo rifles as we shoot with those guys at the same time.
I grew a appreciation for modern rifles, lol. The old rifles all had pretty big POI shifts as the barrel got hotter. One time in particular I had to dial 2 minutes from the first shot to the 10th on the Rams! Thank goodness for my awesome spotter friends that helped me out.
I kinda backed off even though there were a few more interesting old sniper rifles to try out. Maybe someday.
A recap.
Long story short, the plinking for quarters with the old rifles caused me to spend a bunch of $ on four different old rifles. I won some quarters with them but my friends talked into trying Silhouette with Vintage rifles.
I tried my hand with the K31 first, which shoots excellent near as I could tell - but truth be told the irons were too hard for me to see with my oldish eyes.
Turned out a wealthy friend had a bunch of original WW2 original sniper rifles complete with their counterpart old scopes. The deal was to test them and compare, then load him up some ammo in exchange. Oh boy, hands rubbing together, right on! He let me borrow about 20,000 worth of these things!
I had the most success with the Swedish Mauser, damn I can't even remember the scope but it was 4x. I got the record in that club for vintage sniper to that point in time and won the match. 33/40 IIRC. 140 hybrids at 2650 fps was the key, plus the rifle was the most accurate of all of them. Kicked ass in the wind too.
Next was the Springfields, tried 3 of them including a brand new reproduction, friend hadn't even shot it yet. The Marine with 8x scope was my favorite. Won VS division just not the match that day. Gotta watch out for those black powder buffalo rifles as we shoot with those guys at the same time.
I grew a appreciation for modern rifles, lol. The old rifles all had pretty big POI shifts as the barrel got hotter. One time in particular I had to dial 2 minutes from the first shot to the 10th on the Rams! Thank goodness for my awesome spotter friends that helped me out.
I kinda backed off even though there were a few more interesting old sniper rifles to try out. Maybe someday.
My absolute favourite pre war bolt action is the Wichester Model 70. Smooth as butter, always reliable, and excellent trigger.
Second favorites are the 1917 Enfields / 1914 Enfields. Those rifles just feel right for a battle rifle(too me) and they're built like a tank!
Second favorites are the 1917 Enfields / 1914 Enfields. Those rifles just feel right for a battle rifle(too me) and they're built like a tank!
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