When would I need a X35 power scope vs X27

[Jefe~]

Sigh... I know this question has been answered many times on different threads in various context however I now find myself asking it too. (Ha Ha)
I am working on a new build for the coming year for longer.. range work (1500+) and want to go ahead and secure a new piece of glass now so that I can place it on my existing rifle and start enjoying it. Ultimately this scope will go on the new build and my USO will go back on my existing rifle.

My question is straight forward. With a FFP Scope, for those of you who regularly shoot between 1500 and 2K yards do you ever have the need/want for more than X27?

Many Thanks in advance!

 

[jasent]

You can have all the power in the world but it does you no good if you can’t use it. Mirage is the biggest scope power pooper there is. Personally 20x is the highest I use and often have needed to use less just to see. Doesn’t matter if you have the power to see a fly at 1000 yards if the site picture is dancing around like one of those air powered dancing sign guys

 

[Jefe~]

You can have all the power in the world but it does you no good if you can’t use it. Mirage is the biggest scope power pooper there is. Personally 20x is the highest I use and often have needed to use less just to see. Doesn’t matter if you have the power to see a fly at 1000 yards if the site picture is dancing around like one of those air powered dancing sign guys

Fantastic point! Thank you. With the cost of high end glass from one company to the other being fairly competitive sometimes it really does come down to features. However, some features just aren't needed/usable.

 

[Keith Maggard]

The higher mag is great when the conditions allow..but I've found it to be seldom.

 

[Steel head]

My shooting area often has excellent visibility with mild mirage and it’s rare when I can use 29x.

 

[jasent]

What power you need will depend on your use. If your shooting 600 yard bench rest you may want that 27x. But if your shooting at steel out past 1000 20x is plenty if not over kill

 

[roostercogburn98]

Might be handy when dealing with 22. Don’t necessarily need the super high end mag, but would feel more comfortable getting closer to high end and not having any issues come out of the glass. Maybe I’m crazy?

 

[Jefe~]

In the short term the new glass will go on my existing 308, the new build is a 300PRC

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

x20 is totally workable.
Pay decent dollars for decent glass.
A guy I shoot with fell into the high magnification rabbit hole.
He bought a beautiful high end, high magnification scope.
Totally useless for anything we do.
The visual white noise at higher magnification just wipes out the benefits.
It sits on x20 at the most now.

 

[hafejd30]

My 300 PRC wears a 7-35 NF ATACR

I can always dial down to 27X on that. Hard to dial up if you don’t have it

Now if you were to ask ZCO 27X vs NF 7-35 that may lead to another conversation

 

[Jefe~]

My 300 PRC wears a 7-35 NF ATACR

I can always dial down to 27X on that. Hard to dial up if you don’t have it

Now if you were to ask ZCO 27X vs NF 7-35 that may lead to another conversation

That is exactly what I am trying to decide on.

 

[Steel head]

That is exactly what I am trying to decide on.

I’d pick the ZCO
Glass is amazing and those big numbers on the dial

 

[Jefe~]

I’d pick the ZCO
Glass is amazing and those big numbers on the dial

That is a plus for me. Not an old guy yet but old eyes.

 

[hafejd30]

I’d pick the ZCO
Glass is amazing and those big numbers on the dial

I have the NF. My next upgrade would be ZCO

If your just starting out. Just go ZCO

I’m a huge NF fan

 

[jasent]

Those knobs look great on the zco

 

[Jefe~]

I have the NF. My next upgrade would be ZCO

If your just starting out. Just go ZCO

I’m a huge NF fan

Thank you for your perspective! That is solid.

In general I am a fan of both NF and Kahles, but have not owned either (Shot with both). The ZCO MPCT2 reminds me of the SKMR3 (seemingly no longer available) MPCT3X also is a lot to like.

Do you know if ZCO uses any coating on their glass? Even just an anti-reflective?
I have looked but not found an answer to that question.

 

[Emerson0311]

In the short term the new glass will go on my existing 308, the new build is a 300PRC

I bought a 3-18 for my 300PRC. I may hunt with it though.

 

[Emerson0311]

That is exactly what I am trying to decide on.

My little bit of experience says go with higher quality, probably price, and lower magnification.

 

[Jefe~]

My little bit of experience says go with higher quality, probably price, and lower magnification.

I tend to agree! NF has a seriously proven track record which ZCO is still building which is playing a bit with my decision.
What seems to be universal however is that people considered ZCO to be a higher quality optic over NF.

 

[Emerson0311]

I tend to agree! NF has a seriously proven track record which ZCO is still building which is playing a bit with my decision.
What seems to be universal however is that people considered ZCO to be a higher quality optic over NF.

The budget drives so many of these decisions. Grownup life sucks sometimes. If it isn’t your limitation, get the best that money can buy.

 

[Jefe~]

The budget drives so many of these decisions. Grownup life sucks sometimes. If it isn’t your limitation, get the best that money can buy.

You are right about that!. I have been waiting to buy a new scope for about 5 years. I have concluded that there is never a right/good time lol

 

[hafejd30]

Thank you for your perspective! That is solid.

In general I am a fan of both NF and Kahles, but have not owned either (Shot with both). The ZCO MPCT2 reminds me of the SKMR3 (seemingly no longer available) MPCT3X also is a lot to like.

Do you know if ZCO uses any coating on their glass? Even just an anti-reflective?
I have looked but not found an answer to that question.

Funny you mention that haha

Take a look into the owners of ZCO. One came from NF one came from Khales

So it’s not a “new” company. More of a combination of great ideas from two solid companies that know how to build optics

As far as the coating I’m not sure. May list on their site. Otherwise there’s ZCO guys on this forum that someone I’m sure can tag

Some info here

Zero Compromise Optics’ ZC420 MPCT1 Scope Review

BigJimFish reviews the ZC420 rifle scope with the MPCT1 reticle from Zero Compromise Optics, the new high-end scope company co-owned by Jeff Huber of Nightforce and Kahles fame.

www.snipershide.com

 

[db2000]

That is exactly what I am trying to decide on.

If you haven’t used a ZCO, everything everyone says is true. It’s incredible. If you don’t think so you’ll recoup 95% of your investment whether you buy new or in the PX.

 

[gnochi]

FYI, part of the reason top longrange shooters use the 7-35 ATACR is that the glass is noticeably better than the 5-25 ATACR, even if you never go beyond 20x.

That said I’m going to be hard to convince to move away from the ZC527 for longrange shooting.

 

[Fighting the good fight]

FYI, part of the reason top longrange shooters use the 7-35 ATACR is that the glass is noticeably better than the 5-25 ATACR, even if you never go beyond 20x.

That said I’m going to be hard to convince to move away from the ZC527 for longrange shooting.

What is yalls thoughts on the golden eagle. Im a big vortex fan. I dont like to go cheap but i go with what i can afford. I know its more power then i need AT THE MOMENT but its on it on its way to my house as we speak brand new from vortex 804$ to my door step. Ive always seen them and always said that was my dream optic and stumbled across 65% off from vortex. Of course they had it marked way up cause it was on their sight for 1899 i believe and got it for 760 +tax and shipping. I like NF and others but that was a deal i couldn't turn down for something ive always wanted.

 

[hafejd30]

What is yalls thoughts on the golden eagle. Im a big vortex fan. I dont like to go cheap but i go with what i can afford. I know its more power then i need AT THE MOMENT but its on it on its way to my house as we speak brand new from vortex 804$ to my door step. Ive always seen them and always said that was my dream optic and stumbled across 65% off from vortex. Of course they had it marked way up cause it was on their sight for 1899 i believe and got it for 760 +tax and shipping. I like NF and others but that was a deal i couldn't turn down for something ive always wanted.

The only golden eagle I’ve seen in the wild belonged to a fclass teammate. He shot a couple matches with it. He liked it. The parallax gave way on it during a practice session. Not sure what became of it after that.

Currently he runs some high power Burris I believe

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I prefer running the max 27x on my scope if possible, it allows me to see how a plate swings as far as square or a twist indicating a side hit as well as seeing a splash in the area surrounding the target in case my spotter misses the impact. When shooting long distances the more detail you can see the better.

osoh

 

[Jefe~]

FYI, part of the reason top longrange shooters use the 7-35 ATACR is that the glass is noticeably better than the 5-25 ATACR, even if you never go beyond 20x.

That said I’m going to be hard to convince to move away from the ZC527 for longrange shooting.

That is some serious insight! I didn't know that about the NF ATACR 7-35 and 5-25. Thanks! I was already leaning toward the ZCO. I think this just solidified it.

 

[Jefe~]

If you haven’t used a ZCO, everything everyone says is true. It’s incredible. If you don’t think so you’ll recoup 95% of your investment whether you buy new or in the PX.

Thanks! I was hoping that was the case. Just in case...

 

[Jefe~]

Funny you mention that haha

Take a look into the owners of ZCO. One came from NF one came from Khales

So it’s not a “new” company. More of a combination of great ideas from two solid companies that know how to build optics

As far as the coating I’m not sure. May list on their site. Otherwise there’s ZCO guys on this forum that someone I’m sure can tag

Some info here

Zero Compromise Optics’ ZC420 MPCT1 Scope Review

BigJimFish reviews the ZC420 rifle scope with the MPCT1 reticle from Zero Compromise Optics, the new high-end scope company co-owned by Jeff Huber of Nightforce and Kahles fame.

www.snipershide.com

Outstanding and thank you for sharing this article with me!

 

[acudaowner]

need I don't know about have to have anything , but it's nice , I have not come off 40 x for about 3 years I can see every shot at 100 - 1k and impacts like I was standing 3'' away also have not needed to break out a spotter as the 5x50 is able to see just about as well without having to come off the rifle . I love the though of having but not needing it all instead of needing and not having . It just sucks to find a spot where you wish you had just a little more power knowing you don't have it like in my 6x24 . hard to detect shots on a line or hidden on a line at certain ranges with my 4.5 x 27 razor while I love the scope It always leaves me wanting more mag . Guess I am a mag whore lol , I just don't get the attachment to 5x25 scopes for double the cost no extra clarity none at least I can perceive maybe elevation and a name , could be I have never owned one yet . While friends still swear to those brands they are never happy with them always looking for more , constantly buying and selling them to get the next product that is exactly like the one they just sold maybe a newer recitals maybe or more choices in recitals while I have nigher wanted nor needed more than I had , well at least not from the sfp scopes . I dislike all the ffp scopes I have the ret's are pretty much useless to me as I can't see it at low mag and I only start to see them above 14x's maybe less in ideal light me and old eyes . I hope no matter the brand name or powered scope you get it's everything you hope it is and last you many years .

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

Enjoying my Vortex Razors.
Those ZCO scopes seem to be rapidly gaining traction.
The optics are lovely.
If I wasn't so rough on gear, I would buy the ZCO.
Till I do less tabbing around the place, and bush bashing, the Vortex scopes will do.

 

[Jefe~]

need I don't know about have to have anything , but it's nice , I have not come off 40 x for about 3 years I can see every shot at 100 - 1k and impacts like I was standing 3'' away also have not needed to break out a spotter as the 5x50 is able to see just about as well without having to come off the rifle . I love the though of having but not needing it all instead of needing and not having . It just sucks to find a spot where you wish you had just a little more power knowing you don't have it like in my 6x24 . hard to detect shots on a line or hidden on a line at certain ranges with my 4.5 x 27 razor while I love the scope It always leaves me wanting more mag . Guess I am a mag whore lol , I just don't get the attachment to 5x25 scopes for double the cost no extra clarity none at least I can perceive maybe elevation and a name , could be I have never owned one yet . While friends still swear to those brands they are never happy with them always looking for more , constantly buying and selling them to get the next product that is exactly like the one they just sold maybe a newer recitals maybe or more choices in recitals while I have nigher wanted nor needed more than I had , well at least not from the sfp scopes . I dislike all the ffp scopes I have the ret's are pretty much useless to me as I can't see it at low mag and I only start to see them above 14x's maybe less in ideal light me and old eyes . I hope no matter the brand name or powered scope you get it's everything you hope it is and last you many years .

Many Thanks! I agree with the it is better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it view. That is admittedly the origin of my question in this thread. I love my USO but it is only a 1.8X10 Which I have very successfully used out to 1K. I have other scopes as well but my USO is the best I could afford at the time and is still my best quality scope today. It is a workhorse and has been flawless in my use. However my eyes are getting older and I want to do more with my shooting so it is time for something new.

 

[Jefe~]

Enjoying my Vortex Razors.
Those ZCO scopes seem to be rapidly gaining traction.
The optics are lovely.
If I wasn't so rough on gear, I would buy the ZCO.
Till I do less tabbing around the place, and bush bashing, the Vortex scopes will do.

This is a bit of a concern of mine as well. I can break anything.. and I often do. LOL

 

[hafejd30]

If your thinking ZCO
If you can afford ZCO
Get the ZCO
Vortex isn’t the same as ZCO

Again

ZCO

Unless you need the 35X. Then NF ATACR

 

[Jefe~]

If your thinking ZCO
If you can afford ZCO
Get the ZCO
Vortex isn’t the same as ZCO

Again

ZCO

Unless you need the 35X. Then NF ATACR

No I agree.... but that was at the heart of my question. When would I need 35 vs 27?

Realistically, inside of 2K or even 2500Y, would I ever need and be able to use 35X?

Based on the insight from gnochi , if the reason for many long distance shooters to go ATACR 7-35 vs the ACTAR 5-25 is because of the improved glass quality in the 7-35 and in general anything beyond 25X isn't used, then it makes sense to go with the better quality glass over magnification.

 

[Steel head]

No I agree.... but that was at the heart of my question. When would I need 35 vs 27?

Realistically, inside of 2K or even 2500Y, would I ever need and be able to use 35X?

Based on the insight from gnochi , if the reason for many long distance shooters to go ATACR 7-35 vs the ACTAR 5-25 is because of the improved glass quality in the 7-35 and in general anything beyond 25X isn't used, then it makes sense to go with the better quality glass over magnification.

I happily and successfully shoot out to 2 miles and beyond with 25ishX.

Friend has a 4x16 henny and we’ve done 3000 yards with it.
Awesome glass on that scope regardless of its age.

 

[Jefe~]

I happily and successfully shoot out to 2 miles and beyond with 25ishX.

Friend has a 4x16 henny and we’ve done 3000 yards with it.
Awesome glass on that scope regardless of its age.

Awesomeness!

 

[oneshot.onehit]

I still say there will be days you well want more magnification to see detail at any distance , maybe others here have shot long distances as well as yourself and I’m all wrong. Also you misread the comment from gnochi - he stated the 7-35 was preferred over the 5-25 because the higher mag 7-35 had better glass.

I think the reasoning to that statement is you can dial down a 7-35 to 25 and have the 5-25 maxed at 25 and without a doubt the 7-35 will have a brighter more detailed image because you are not maxing it out as the 5-25 is.

I have shot some good distances for quite a few years now and this is only my opinion.

If anything we are close to 2022, hang tight and see what the scope companies will be releasing as new products. They generally start making announcements in January before and after the Shot Show.

Osoh

 

[Steel head]

I still say there will be days you well want more magnification to see detail at any distance , maybe others here have shot long distances as well as yourself and I’m all wrong. Also you misread the comment from gnochi - he stated the 7-35 was preferred over the 5-25 because the higher mag 7-35 had better glass.

I think the reasoning to that statement is you can dial down a 7-35 to 25 and have the 5-25 maxed at 25 and without a doubt the 7-35 will have a brighter more detailed image because you are not maxing it out as the 5-25 is.

I have shot some good distances for quite a few years now and this is only my opinion.

If anything we are close to 2022, hang tight and see what the scope companies will be releasing as new products. They generally start making announcements in January before and after the Shot Show.

Osoh

Yea
I’m confident 25X on the 7x35 is noticeably superior than 25x on the 5x25 nightforce.
The 7x35 is just coasting at that magnification.


The ZCO is pretty amazing even at full magnification.

Either way you’d be happy with the 7x35 or the ZCO.

 

[Jefe~]

I still say there will be days you well want more magnification to see detail at any distance , maybe others here have shot long distances as well as yourself and I’m all wrong. Also you misread the comment from gnochi - he stated the 7-35 was preferred over the 5-25 because the higher mag 7-35 had better glass.

I think the reasoning to that statement is you can dial down a 7-35 to 25 and have the 5-25 maxed at 25 and without a doubt the 7-35 will have a brighter more detailed image because you are not maxing it out as the 5-25 is.

I have shot some good distances for quite a few years now and this is only my opinion.

If anything we are close to 2022, hang tight and see what the scope companies will be releasing as new products. They generally start making announcements in January before and after the Shot Show.

Osoh

I appreciate the Input and can definitely see your point. There is a difference with most scopes in optical performance between when they are maxed out vs when they are backed off a bit. I plan to wait until closer to SHOT Show if for no other reason I don't want a pricy box in transit this close to Christmas for fear of a shipping snafu.

 

[CSTactical]

Thank you for your perspective! That is solid.

In general I am a fan of both NF and Kahles, but have not owned either (Shot with both). The ZCO MPCT2 reminds me of the SKMR3 (seemingly no longer available) MPCT3X also is a lot to like.

Do you know if ZCO uses any coating on their glass? Even just an anti-reflective?
I have looked but not found an answer to that question.

You can call them directly and get the 100% correct answer 208-435-4000

And what some people don't realize about magnification is that the exit pupil gets very tight on the maximum magnification which restricts the light coming in. So when we were out shooting 2,000 yards and under, we were typically about 18-20 power with 25-27x scopes with some mirage.
Using a ZCO out there I didn't want to use anything else

 

[oneshot.onehit]

CSTactical
Are you sponsored or get a shooter discount from ZCO Honestly? Those are some strong statements. Just asking.

 

[Jefe~]

You can call them directly and get the 100% correct answer 208-435-4000

And what some people don't realize about magnification is that the exit pupil gets very tight on the maximum magnification which restricts the light coming in. So when we were out shooting 2,000 yards and under, we were typically about 18-20 power with 25-27x scopes with some mirage.
Using a ZCO out there I didn't want to use anything else

I appreciate this and you guys taking the time to talk to me today as well! We will be talking again soon!

 

[Darkside-Six]

CSTactical
Are you sponsored or get a shooter discount from ZCO Honestly? Those are some strong statements. Just asking.

Well……he sells them and uses them so I’d say he’s pretty keen on what they can do.

 

[BKKSW]

I could only stand to read a handful of the OP's replies before I felt the best answer was to take a quality class where they spend at least a full day in the classroom on all aspects of using and choosing scopes. Points for a class that offers rig rentals. Bonus points for someone telling you this less than ten times before you listened. (I didn't get bonus points)

 

[Jefe~]

I could only stand to read a handful of the OP's replies before I felt the best answer was to take a quality class where they spend at least a full day in the classroom on all aspects of using and choosing scopes. Points for a class that offers rig rentals. Bonus points for someone telling you this less than ten times before you listened. (I didn't get bonus points)

Thanks for your insight. I have wanted to get to a Long Range Class for a while it just hasn't happened yet.

 

[Gradle]

Sigh... I know this question has been answered many times on different threads in various context however I now find myself asking it too. (Ha Ha)
I am working on a new build for the coming year for longer.. range work (1500+) and want to go ahead and secure a new piece of glass now so that I can place it on my existing rifle and start enjoying it. Ultimately this scope will go on the new build and my USO will go back on my existing rifle.

My question is straight forward. With a FFP Scope, for those of you who regularly shoot between 1500 and 2K yards do you ever have the need/want for more than X27?

Many Thanks in advance!

I am somewhat new to long range (3 yrs.) and I have an XTR III that goes up to 35X. Mirage is not a problem at that magnification as the glass is great. I generally go with 25X at 1000 yds. Ramping it up to 35X does does improve my accuracy. I'd like to shoot a mile someday so I bought the dam scope. There are a few other features that made my decision easy but, ultimately, 35X isn't necessary to shoot 1000 yds.

P.S.-It looks really cool on top of my rifle.

 

[GrumpyOleFart]

A mate has bought a ZCO.
We are heading to salt flats tomorrow to zero it in.
I am looking forward to having a squizz at it.

 

[Jefe~]

Thanks everyone! I have decided to go the ZCO route
Happy New Year everyone!