Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

[Jtischauser]

So I saw some info on the big Sniper Series and it looks awesome! So, I would like to get my feet wet next season in the Long Range Uber Tactical Sniper Competitions.

I have watched the "I want to be a Sniper" bears but now where do I go?

I shoot a lot of action shooting competitions like 3 Gun, USPSA, ICORE, etc so I am not new to competitions. But want to get on the fast track with the long range game so that I don't look like a tool that can't shoot with a bunch of expensive stuff.

My questions are a plenty and I am too lazy to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum. Plus the new know-it-all snipers are probably dying to answer the questions that all you old timer 10,000 post guys have answered a million times. So point me in the right direction please.

What would you buy and with who and how would you train if you started all over again knowing what you know now?

 

[Teggy1]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Read Forum

Buy gun

Sign up for online training

Go to Rifles Only for instruction

 

[DCR]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am too lazy to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum.
</div></div>

You are already on the wrong track.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teggy1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Read Forum

Buy gun

Sign up for online training

Go to Rifles Only for instruction </div></div>

On the buy gun do I buy once, cry once or is there a less than lethal to the wallet route on a good long range rifle? Are these competitions favorable to bolt guns or would a semi auto AR10 type rifle suffice?

Where is rifles only? Never heard of it. I am in Oklahoma so I was planning to head down to BadLands Tactical to train with a former National Guard member of mine Steve Suttles.

 

[ponchair]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My questions are a plenty and I am too lazy to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum.
</div></div>
This site is free and we all cannot be thankful enough for that. The training you could get is not. So do yourself a favor, read. That is all.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My questions are a plenty and I am too lazy to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum. </div></div>

Since this seems to be the only question that anyone has an answer to even though it is not even a question I will rephrase it.

My questions are a plenty and I do not have the time to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum.

 

[1911fan]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Ok, I'll play. Start with a Remington 700 PSS or Sendero in .308, put a scope and bipod on it, buy a case of Federal Gold Medal Match, and go shoot some F-Class matches. NRA's website or local shooting clubs are where you can get your feet wet.
Oh, and start reading and sign up for the online training forum.


1911fan

 

[ponchair]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
My questions are a plenty and I am too lazy to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum. </div></div>

Since this seems to be the only question that anyone has an answer to even though it is not even a question I will rephrase it.

My questions are a plenty and I do not have the time to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum.

</div></div>

Easy answer, find a different hobby.

If you don't have the time to read this forum, then go to a class.

 

[jlaw973]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

You really dont't have to read long to find some really good info. Then ask questions.


Or click on the link in my signature and ask questions.

 

[Anti-Materiel]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

I agree with the guys. You're gonna have to read & learn a shitload of information if you wanna be a good long distance shooter. Do you think Military/LE Snipers & World Class Benchrest Shooters were too lazy to read when they were learning? I don't think so.

 

[Disturbed]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Jesse,

Most here will start with a basic bolt action set up. Remington 700 or Savage. Quality is crucial for consistency. Buy the best you can afford. Rifle, scope, base, rings, stock, bipod, and anything else.

The model 6 or 7 from stag would be a start for you if you want to stay in the AR world. I would imagine you know some people at stag.

Good luck.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Hey Jesse welcome to the Hide brother!!! Good to see you here.

I will drop you a line or hit you up and help get you on the right track.

I will trade you sniper tips and you can pass me a few 3 gun tricks so that i can really be on your heels.

Stay Safe
Tony G

 

[i_rep]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

1st) You can't read all the info in two weeks it would take many, many months to try and absorb info. No one is going to be willing to spoon feed you everything they learned thru trial and error. There would be zero growing pains for yourself if that were the case and we would all be in line tryin to get any one of the top shooters around to spoon feed us all.

2nd) You can't come on here and say what is best? Once again you will loose many months sleep and go blind just reading answers to that exact same question that get debated on here over and over each and every week. this question always has more than one answer and there is always the dollar figure to go with it. So my question to you is, really, How much disposable cash do you have to (a) buy a rifle, (b) purchase optics, (c) buy ammo, (d) spend on a "kit". I wont even touch reloading since you don't have time to even read, you are not ready to read another year just on reloading.

3rd) It will take many classes, and many will tell you similar information and each one will say something different. This is NOT the Coast Guard. There is not ONLY ONE standard way of doing thing or one single answer to get an end result.

Your lucky, you live in the central united states, if you have disposable income to spend on shooting then buy something and go shoot, keep a log on everything you do and learn from it. If you don't have time to read, I doubt you have time to shoot, train, or go to a class. Chances are you could get up to speed to maybe 80% in a year, but unless you do all of the above and go learn from someone that has made all the same mistakes then they will just take your money, but you can learn as you go. Maybe you won't go broke along the way.

Does this help? If not you can take it to pm.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

look up Donttryandrun, he might, just might spread some of his 846532963(super sniper) training

 

[223ai]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

If you don't want to read and experiment on your own, then call Rifles Only and take a class with Jacob, he is an excellent teacher. I'd also inquire to see if they have a loaner rifle and optics. You'll be light years ahead of the game, and you'll know what does and doesn't work with equipment.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Jesse,
What is the farthest you shoot in 3 gun? Might be a good idea to buy/build a large frame AR in 6.5 Creedmoor if you're already intimate with the semi-auto platform. That way you can buy in-expensive ammo and train without having to learn a new weapon system.

Definitely head to Rifles Only in Texas. www.riflesonly.com

Sign up for the online training here on the hide and get immediate access to LOADS of past lessons.

Jeff

 

[steve123]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I saw some info on the big Sniper Series and it looks awesome! So, I would like to get my feet wet next season in the Long Range Uber Tactical Sniper Competitions.

I have watched the "I want to be a Sniper" bears but now where do I go?

I shoot a lot of action shooting competitions like 3 Gun, USPSA, ICORE, etc so I am not new to competitions. But want to get on the fast track with the long range game so that I don't look like a tool that can't shoot with a bunch of expensive stuff.

My questions are a plenty and I am too lazy to spend 2 weeks reading this entire forum. Plus the new know-it-all snipers are probably dying to answer the questions that all you old timer 10,000 post guys have answered a million times. So point me in the right direction please.

What would you buy and with who and how would you train if you started all over again knowing what you know now?
</div></div>

You didn't mention any financial constraints. I'm bored so I'll take stab at your question.

Yes buy once,cry once. This what I'd do if I were going to start all over again with a modest budget of $6000.

Go to Euro optics and buy their SAKO TRG 22 in 260 Remington with at least one more magazine. If you want to start off at a disadvantage in the wind then get a 308

You can spend twice the cost for a TRG and gain little if nothing at all. You can spend less initially but you'll find yourself buying all kinds of aftermarket stuff to put on a standard rifle then have to pay for gunsmithing. It ads up quickly and the down time sucks!

I'll state my order of preference for scopes for the higher end. S&B,March,Hensoldt,USO. Medium priced preference is Nightforce F1,Horus/Bushnell HDMR,Vortex Razor,SWFA SS 5-20. Bang for the $ would be Vortex PST and Bushnell 4200 Tactical.

Out of all of those scopes I'd pick the NF-F1,HS,ZS MLR2 to stay within budget.

Buy a Warne 20 moa base.
A pair of ARC rings.

The $6000 is pretty much gone but you'd be happy with the quality and features overall.

I assume you already reload? If so then get your favorite dies, otherwise HSM,Black Hills,GAP,Southwest ammo and other custom reloaders can supply.

Some things you might need.

A rear bag,back pack,range cards-ballistic program,Kestral portable weather station,rain gear,knee and elbow pads. There's more things you might need that others can suggest.

Other than that,just find some practical precision shooters in your area to practice with and learn from. I do suggest you take the Snipers Hide on line training course. Lots of valuable info there.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

I'm not going to even attempt to tell you what equipment you need, as it wouldn't matter anyway. You can't just ask a few questions and then go out and buy a bunch of gear and automatically be proficient at shooting long range. Anybody who even remotely knows how to shoot a rifle can lob lead at a 1000yd plate till they eventually walk on in on the target, but that does not mean you can "shoot".

My only advice to you is this....since you mentioned Bad Lands, give Bobby a call and see when their next class is. It's most likely the closest location to you that offers a decent course with good instructors. A good 1-2 day class will get you started, but nothing will help you more than time spent behind the rifle and good trigger time in field type situations.

I'd be glad to let you shoot any of the rifles I have to let you get the feel of what you may or may not like in terms of stocks and optics. I'm a bit south of you, but not too far.

 

[seanhagerty]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

I am going to disagree with a lot of the folks here. Dont go too deep on the money end of things right away. Go get something you can afford, and can reload for.

Start out at 100 yds, work on that distance until you are comfy with it and your rifle. Then start stretching it out a bit. get comfy at the next range, then move on. Do it in steps. If you try to go to far to quick you will get frustrated. Just about any rifle is capable of shooting beyond our abilities (at least when we start out). Find out what those capabilities are, then find ways to improve that rifle. Work it until you are satisfied you got everything you could out of it. That is the time to look at selling that rifle and moving up to an expensive one.

Since you are already shooting AR's, that may be a good place to start. Work with what you have, you should be able to reach out to 600 yds or so reliably.

If you are not reloading, start.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Ok maybe the first more pointed question I should have asked was how do I get this forum to email me when someone replays to a thread I am watching? I checked the little box in the preferences that says email me to me replays to watched threads but I'm getting nothing??? I'm sure I'm just missing a check mark somewhere.

 

[KE5MUJ]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sean Hagerty</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to disagree with a lot of the folks here. Dont go too deep on the money end of things right away. Go get something you can afford, and can reload for.

Start out at 100 yds, work on that distance until you are comfy with it and your rifle. Then start stretching it out a bit. get comfy at the next range, then move on. Do it in steps. If you try to go to far to quick you will get frustrated. Just about any rifle is capable of shooting beyond our abilities (at least when we start out). Find out what those capabilities are, then find ways to improve that rifle. Work it until you are satisfied you got everything you could out of it. That is the time to look at selling that rifle and moving up to an expensive one.

Since you are already shooting AR's, that may be a good place to start. Work with what you have, you should be able to reach out to 600 yds or so reliably.

If you are not reloading, start. </div></div>

Great suggestion IMO

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jesse,
What is the farthest you shoot in 3 gun? Might be a good idea to buy/build a large frame AR in 6.5 Creedmoor if you're already intimate with the semi-auto platform. That way you can buy in-expensive ammo and train without having to learn a new weapon system.

Definitely head to Rifles Only in Texas. www.riflesonly.com

Sign up for the online training here on the hide and get immediate access to LOADS of past lessons.

Jeff </div></div>

The longest shot we took this year was 590 yards at a full size Ipsc target. I run a 6 power scope out of my .223 with 69 grain boolets. Took a few more shots at 400 and 500 at 12" to
full size Ipsc targets. Most 3 gun "long" range is 350 or less shooting at MGM flash targets that are 10" Circles with 5" square heads. We don't dial dope ever. My scope is a Swarovski Z6i w/BRT reticle which gives me pretty good Okie windage on the fly.

I'd really like to go the semi auto route because the rifle might could be dual purpose at first in 3 gun heavy metal division and the sniper stuff with an optics swap.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jesse,
What is the farthest you shoot in 3 gun? Might be a good idea to buy/build a large frame AR in 6.5 Creedmoor if you're already intimate with the semi-auto platform. That way you can buy in-expensive ammo and train without having to learn a new weapon system.

Definitely head to Rifles Only in Texas. www.riflesonly.com

Sign up for the online training here on the hide and get immediate access to LOADS of past lessons.

Jeff </div></div>

The longest shot we took this year was 590 yards at a full size Ipsc target. I run a 6 power scope out of my .223 with 69 grain boolets. Took a few more shots at 400 and 500 at 12" to
full size Ipsc targets. Most 3 gun "long" range is 350 or less shooting at MGM flash targets that are 10" Circles with 5" square heads. We don't dial dope ever. My scope is a Swarovski Z6i w/BRT reticle which gives me pretty good Okie windage on the fly.

I'd really like to go the semi auto route because the rifle might could be dual purpose at first in 3 gun heavy metal division and the sniper stuff with an optics swap.

</div></div>

If I were you then, I'd look into getting an LMT MWS or having GAP build you a GAP-10. In the meantime, go get a nice optic like recommended above and start shooting your AR.

 

[223ai]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Gassers are nice, until you shoot a match that requires bolt back and mag out for all movement on a stage. Be comfortable with dropping rounds as you move.

 

[Lucks]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Good place to start reading and it won't take two weeks, only about 20 minutes....

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART I: THE RIFLE & GEAR
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART II: OPTICS
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART III: SHOOTING
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-shooting/

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Must one reload starting out or is there ammo good enough on the shelf to compete with?

Does anyone win with "factory" ammo?

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Must one reload starting out or is there ammo good enough on the shelf to compete with?

Does anyone win with "factory" ammo? </div></div>

Don't need to reload. That's why I suggested 6.5 Creedmoor. Good factory ammo at a relatively cheap price.

 

[blklabs]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Chad with Reloads of Dallas can do your custom hand loading for you.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gassers are nice, until you shoot a match that requires bolt back and mag out for all movement on a stage. Be comfortable with dropping rounds as you move. </div></div>

Are those matches frequent? I don't plan to shoot every match in the country or on the "tour". I will probably shoot the ones close to OKC. Looks like there are several in north and central texas as well.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Jesse welcome to the Hide brother!!! Good to see you here.

I will drop you a line or hit you up and help get you on the right track.

I will trade you sniper tips and you can pass me a few 3 gun tricks so that i can really be on your heels.

Stay Safe
Tony G </div></div>

TG,

How's it going man? I was thinking about you while I was taking a dump the other day. Only because I saw your name in some gun rag where you won another long range sniper match. Nice job!

I will take you up on your offer. You going to Texas this weekend? I'll buy you a beer.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lucks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good place to start reading and it won't take two weeks, only about 20 minutes....

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART I: THE RIFLE & GEAR
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-equipment/

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART II: OPTICS
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-optics/

PRACTICAL LONG-RANGE RIFLE SHOOTING - PART III: SHOOTING
http://demigodllc.com/articles/practical-long-range-rifle-shooting-shooting/

</div></div>

Thanks! That appears to be very good reading with a quick glance.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

I see lots of Oklahoma locations on here. Where do ya'll shoot at? I never hear about this sort of shooting at any of the clubs that shoot 3 gun or USPSA type competitions. heck I would just like to come watch a match if there are matches to be seen.

 

[223ai]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gassers are nice, until you shoot a match that requires bolt back and mag out for all movement on a stage. Be comfortable with dropping rounds as you move. </div></div>

Are those matches frequent? I don't plan to shoot every match in the country or on the "tour". I will probably shoot the ones close to OKC. Looks like there are several in north and central texas as well.</div></div>

Every match that I have ever been a part of adheres to this rule. No problems, you're just at a bit of a disadvantage. Also, a gas gun typically runs at slower velocities than bolt gun counterparts.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blklabs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chad with Reloads of Dallas can do your custom hand loading for you. </div></div>

I like the sound of that. I will look him up for sure!

 

[gugubica]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Jesse, you are not to far from me, you are welcome to come check out the match I am running in March. It will give you a good idea of what equipment everyone is using, what works and what doesn't and what is involved.

There are also a few matches in Texas coming up soon, you might be able to check those out too.

That really is the best way to find out what is required and what you think will work best for you.

If you want to run a Gasser, I may have one that'll work out well for you.

 

[thefitter]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Go to a match and watch and talk to people. Find a humble patient down to earth man that wins and politely tell him you want to learn. The only way to really apprentice is hands on with the guidance of a master. There are many men out there that truly enjoy introducing their craft/hobby/sport to new blood.

This forum is a good resource but there is so much information here that it is very hard for an inexperienced individual to digest it in a orderly and systematic way.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gassers are nice, until you shoot a match that requires bolt back and mag out for all movement on a stage. Be comfortable with dropping rounds as you move. </div></div>

Are those matches frequent? I don't plan to shoot every match in the country or on the "tour". I will probably shoot the ones close to OKC. Looks like there are several in north and central texas as well.</div></div>

Every match that I have ever been a part of adheres to this rule. No problems, you're just at a bit of a disadvantage. Also, a gas gun typically runs at slower velocities than bolt gun counterparts. </div></div>

The answer, I'm told at least, is to load the exact number of rounds needed for the COF into your mags. That way the bolt will lock to the rear on it's own and you don't "lose" any rounds.

 

[Hooper]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1911fan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ok, I'll play. Start with a Remington 700 PSS or Sendero in .308, put a scope and bipod on it, buy a case of Federal Gold Medal Match, and go shoot some F-Class matches. NRA's website or local shooting clubs are where you can get your feet wet.
Oh, and start reading and sign up for the online training forum.


1911fan </div></div>

Best advice yet. Learn the fundamentals on a proven rifle that will not break the bank. You can customize it later once you realize what suits you.

Invest in a decent scope with parallax adjustment and target knobs. Nikon and Leupold Tactical lines are ok.

Install kydex cheek piece

install decent rings and base

A slightly used 700Pss in .308win would be the best choice.

Be sure everything is setup right. Scope level, action screws torqued right, parallax set for given distance etc...

Too many folks complain about rifle inaccuracy when the problem most of the time is rifle setup and poor fundamentals.

 

[NUTT]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

The Larue OBR gets a lot of good press. My preference would be for an 18 or 20" barrel, I'd shy away from the 16" for LR work.

Scope is personal preference, but 15-20x max power is a good rule of thumb. If you don't have a preference starting out, go mil scale reticle and 0.1 mil per click knobs.

Add a bipod, rear bag, data book and a cheek rest if you like them. Then go take a class. The Badlands or Tiger Valley are your closest bets. Rifle's Only has already been mentioned and is highly regarded.

 

[m70whinchester]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

I've been into long range shooting for a couple of years. My suggestion as a newbie is to ignore all of the equipment and gear discussions, and the "what's the best" discussions. Absorb as much info as you can on marksmanship and ballistics (there is a lot of great info on this site). Local people with experience is going to be the best and quickest resource. Try meeting someone through the site if you need to. I would advise against spending money until you understand why you need to spend it. Training classes are expensive. I know I don't want to spend my money on training that's way over my head, or learn a skill I'm going to soon forget because I'm not able to apply it outside of the training.

 

[223ai]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gassers are nice, until you shoot a match that requires bolt back and mag out for all movement on a stage. Be comfortable with dropping rounds as you move. </div></div>

Are those matches frequent? I don't plan to shoot every match in the country or on the "tour". I will probably shoot the ones close to OKC. Looks like there are several in north and central texas as well.</div></div>

Every match that I have ever been a part of adheres to this rule. No problems, you're just at a bit of a disadvantage. Also, a gas gun typically runs at slower velocities than bolt gun counterparts. </div></div>

The answer, I'm told at least, is to load the exact number of rounds needed for the COF into your mags. That way the bolt will lock to the rear on it's own and you don't "lose" any rounds.</div></div>

That's all well and good, but most matches I've been a part of require movement within the stage, i.e. engage target...bolt back mag out...move to firing position #2...insert mag, strip round,...engage target...etc...etc... until time or end of stage. Much faster with one 10 rd mag.

 

[Hoser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Come over to Raton for one of the Sporting Rifle Matches.

I will loan you my AIAW in 308 and we can spend some time at the sight in range the day before and shoot together on match day.

You will see a lot of different rifles on the line and a lot of different calibers. You can pick a lot of peoples brains there.

I started out with a Tubb2000 in 6XC and Nightforce 5.5-22. Now I am shooting an AI-X in 243 with a S&B 5-25.

If you just wanted to throw a bunch of cash at it for a fast fix, buy a off the shelf rifle from Surgeon, GAP or AI in 6.5 CM or 260. Toss a decent scope on top and get some quality training.

Grab me at Mystery Mountain. We can talk more then.

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

That's all well and good, but most matches I've been a part of require movement within the stage, i.e. engage target...bolt back mag out...move to firing position #2...insert mag, strip round,...engage target...etc...etc... until time or end of stage. Much faster with one 10 rd mag. </div></div>

I hope that's not the case... are you saying if I had a 10rd AR mag it would be easier?

 

[jasonZ]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Hey Jesse welcome aboard! Check out, as stated, the marksmanship and advanced marksmanship threads in the lower sections. Sticky threads contain a lot of good info. I'd also suggest a decent rifle with good glass and see how you like it. The above suggestions are good, in watching matches and seeing what is used and what works. I'd suggest a bolt gun for this purpose, but a gas gun should work fine. Good luck with your decisions and hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Having been nearly completely "self-taught" until about a year ago, I can unequivocally say that if you want to see your skills build and improve as fast as possible, you need to seek the help/training of an expert.

I got hooked on the long range bug and immediately got going reloading. I was NOT limited by rifle, scope, gear or ammo. I was only limited by:

1. How often I could hit the range
2. My knowledge of the fundamentals

LUCKY for me, I built myself a good foundation to work from, so that I hit the ground running when I received real training, and had relatively few bad habits to reverse/correct.

My best advice to you is buy a solid rifle in a "moderate" caliber. 223,243,260,6.5CM,7-08,308 qualify. Nothing with the word "magnum" in it. Decide up front if you're going to buy cases of factory ammo for it or reload. DON'T THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SAVE LOTS OF MONEY RELOADING. You won't, especially when you factor in the time - time you shoulda spent shooting/training, not making ammo. Buy LOTS of ammo at a clip. This way, each time you raid your stockpile to go shoot, you're not thinking OMG, this is $75 of ammo. Buy it up front and forget about the cost. Save your brass to either sell it to recoup a little cost or for reloading later on down the road.

Sign up for the online training and watch each lesson 2 or 3 times. Take it to heart.

Take your rifle out and shoot it - enough to feel comfortable with it. No flinch from recoil, riding the recoil down uneventfully without breaking your cheekweld. Focus on trigger/breath control.

Once you are comfortable with how your rifle goes "bang", and how to make it do so - SEEK EXPERT HELP.

If you want to learn fast, I really can't stress enough how crucial it is to get expert help.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trevor300wsm</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'd be glad to let you shoot any of the rifles I have to let you get the feel of what you may or may not like in terms of stocks and optics. I'm a bit south of you, but not too far. </div></div>

I will definitely take you up on this!

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jesse,
What is the farthest you shoot in 3 gun? Might be a good idea to buy/build a large frame AR in 6.5 Creedmoor if you're already intimate with the semi-auto platform. That way you can buy in-expensive ammo and train without having to learn a new weapon system.

Definitely head to Rifles Only in Texas. www.riflesonly.com

Sign up for the online training here on the hide and get immediate access to LOADS of past lessons.

Jeff </div></div>

The longest shot we took this year was 590 yards at a full size Ipsc target. I run a 6 power scope out of my .223 with 69 grain boolets. Took a few more shots at 400 and 500 at 12" to
full size Ipsc targets. Most 3 gun "long" range is 350 or less shooting at MGM flash targets that are 10" Circles with 5" square heads. We don't dial dope ever. My scope is a Swarovski Z6i w/BRT reticle which gives me pretty good Okie windage on the fly.

I'd really like to go the semi auto route because the rifle might could be dual purpose at first in 3 gun heavy metal division and the sniper stuff with an optics swap.

</div></div>

If I were you then, I'd look into getting an LMT MWS or having GAP build you a GAP-10. In the meantime, go get a nice optic like recommended above and start shooting your AR. </div></div>

I shoot the hell out of my AR right now but not at Sniper size targets. What size target should I be practicing on and at what distance? I can shoot out to 300 at my range. I can shoot out to 100 everyday at lunch break.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gugubica</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Jesse, you are not to far from me, you are welcome to come check out the match I am running in March. It will give you a good idea of what equipment everyone is using, what works and what doesn't and what is involved.

There are also a few matches in Texas coming up soon, you might be able to check those out too.

That really is the best way to find out what is required and what you think will work best for you.

If you want to run a Gasser, I may have one that'll work out well for you. </div></div>

We shoot a big 3 gun match in the Ozarks every September. I love that place! Its like a vacation up there. Do you know Damon Rufner? He shoots for Black Rain Ordnance in 3 gun. He is big into the sniper stuff as well.

 

[Jtischauser]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Onemoretime</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jesse Tischauser</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JPipes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Gassers are nice, until you shoot a match that requires bolt back and mag out for all movement on a stage. Be comfortable with dropping rounds as you move. </div></div>

Are those matches frequent? I don't plan to shoot every match in the country or on the "tour". I will probably shoot the ones close to OKC. Looks like there are several in north and central texas as well.</div></div>

Every match that I have ever been a part of adheres to this rule. No problems, you're just at a bit of a disadvantage. Also, a gas gun typically runs at slower velocities than bolt gun counterparts. </div></div>

The answer, I'm told at least, is to load the exact number of rounds needed for the COF into your mags. That way the bolt will lock to the rear on it's own and you don't "lose" any rounds. </div></div>

This is brilliant advice!!! Especially since I don't ever plan to miss. LOL!

 

[Onemoretime]

Re: Where does a Long Range Sniper Wannabe Start???

Start with 2 MOA sized targets and work your way to 1 MOA or smaller.
2 inch targets at 100 work down to 1 inch and smaller
6 inch targets at 300 work down to 3 inch and smaller

Get a scope and sign up for the next "Smack the Smiley" competition. It's a mail in competition shot from prone, bipod at 100 yards. Done purely on the honor system.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2797895#Post2797895

http://www.smackthesmiley.com/

It's GREAT 100 yard training!