I know this most likely a repeat but what in the heck is going on with all the powder and primers? Is there a rush for us to all to buy everything up or is this stuff just not being produced? Where is it?
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Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
- Thread starter Tackleberry
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- primers or powder stuff
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
As I understand it, the rush to buy ammo has the mfgrs cranking out ammo at full capacity, leaving less components for the reloading market. At the same time folks are buying up reloading supplies at wholesale levels too.
The demand is simply far greater than the supply.
As I understand it, the rush to buy ammo has the mfgrs cranking out ammo at full capacity, leaving less components for the reloading market. At the same time folks are buying up reloading supplies at wholesale levels too.
The demand is simply far greater than the supply.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
The demand won't last to much longer at this level. People will settle down. Then the products will be back on the market. I seen Win standard primers on the self todathey in Nebraska. I didn't need or use those. But someone will go in and buy them. Hopefully they buy what they need not what they think they will need their lifetime.
The demand won't last to much longer at this level. People will settle down. Then the products will be back on the market. I seen Win standard primers on the self todathey in Nebraska. I didn't need or use those. But someone will go in and buy them. Hopefully they buy what they need not what they think they will need their lifetime.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The demand won't last to much longer at this level. People will settle down. Then the products will be back on the market. I seen Win standard primers on the self todathey in Nebraska. I didn't need or use those. But someone will go in and buy them. Hopefully they buy what they need not what they think they will need their lifetime. </div></div>
i disagree to a point... i am starting to run low on reloading components and waiting for them to hit the shelfs again, then i will buy some more, and i think there are plenty more like me that had what we needed before the rush, and are now getting to the point where when the stuff does become available we will buy it. hopefully it will settle down by the end of the summer, but i am not expecting anything differant than whats going on now until at least then.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The demand won't last to much longer at this level. People will settle down. Then the products will be back on the market. I seen Win standard primers on the self todathey in Nebraska. I didn't need or use those. But someone will go in and buy them. Hopefully they buy what they need not what they think they will need their lifetime. </div></div>
i disagree to a point... i am starting to run low on reloading components and waiting for them to hit the shelfs again, then i will buy some more, and i think there are plenty more like me that had what we needed before the rush, and are now getting to the point where when the stuff does become available we will buy it. hopefully it will settle down by the end of the summer, but i am not expecting anything differant than whats going on now until at least then.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
I know the more serious shooters always need ammo. The people who are buying the shit up because the are scared and just bought the first gun in thier life 6 months ago. I think thier buying habits should slow down. How much ammo do they need. The people who do shoot alot will always have a need. I think one day they will wake up and say shit I have alot of ammo I don't need. I could be wrong. I have been wrong before. Like Wild Bill C we are fighting two wars also. This has to have a little affect on the supply.
I know the more serious shooters always need ammo. The people who are buying the shit up because the are scared and just bought the first gun in thier life 6 months ago. I think thier buying habits should slow down. How much ammo do they need. The people who do shoot alot will always have a need. I think one day they will wake up and say shit I have alot of ammo I don't need. I could be wrong. I have been wrong before. Like Wild Bill C we are fighting two wars also. This has to have a little affect on the supply.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
I understand the 2 wars, but we have been at that for some time now. I personally think that everyone are going nuts thinking the government is fixing to take everything away. I don't think that will happen. I do however think that the slient majority needs to stand up and be heard! April 15th tea parties need to be attended. Look at 9.12 project and lets stand up
I understand the 2 wars, but we have been at that for some time now. I personally think that everyone are going nuts thinking the government is fixing to take everything away. I don't think that will happen. I do however think that the slient majority needs to stand up and be heard! April 15th tea parties need to be attended. Look at 9.12 project and lets stand up
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
Your best bet is to get on a backorder list and wait. You might get lucky and come across one of the bigger supliers but I dought it. By time most of us get home and on the computer everything is sold out. I would imagine on backorder it might be a month maybe less. Luckily I bought stuff online in bulk long before all the hoarding and panicking started. I knew guns would be flying off the shelves but honestly never thought we would be short of reloading supplies. Glad I got my stuff before and not now.
Your best bet is to get on a backorder list and wait. You might get lucky and come across one of the bigger supliers but I dought it. By time most of us get home and on the computer everything is sold out. I would imagine on backorder it might be a month maybe less. Luckily I bought stuff online in bulk long before all the hoarding and panicking started. I knew guns would be flying off the shelves but honestly never thought we would be short of reloading supplies. Glad I got my stuff before and not now.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
Yeah I don't think we are going to see demand slow down anytime soon. In December guys were saying by February it would be all better and if anything it's worse now. It's being compounded now by the ammo demands and the fact you still have guys trying to put away a lot of reloading components and now you also have the guys that were holding off buying in hopes stuff would come in or down in price and it has not.
It's going to get even worse soon because for much of the country the shooting season is going to kick in if it has not already.
Yeah I don't think we are going to see demand slow down anytime soon. In December guys were saying by February it would be all better and if anything it's worse now. It's being compounded now by the ammo demands and the fact you still have guys trying to put away a lot of reloading components and now you also have the guys that were holding off buying in hopes stuff would come in or down in price and it has not.
It's going to get even worse soon because for much of the country the shooting season is going to kick in if it has not already.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
The investors saw an opportunity, purchased all they could, got screen names on gunbroker.com, and have commenced raping the general public.
The investors saw an opportunity, purchased all they could, got screen names on gunbroker.com, and have commenced raping the general public.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
For what it is worth, I of course started with the Big Chain stores and was a day late and a dollar short. I have had some good luck with very, Very small gun stores recently. I just googled "Gun Stores in ..... whatever city" and started calling.
I only took what I needed as I had been one of the many just trying to get enough for some development. I know it may sound overly simple, and perhaps you have tried, hopefully someone who reads this has not tried, and is sucessful.
Best of luck.
For what it is worth, I of course started with the Big Chain stores and was a day late and a dollar short. I have had some good luck with very, Very small gun stores recently. I just googled "Gun Stores in ..... whatever city" and started calling.
I only took what I needed as I had been one of the many just trying to get enough for some development. I know it may sound overly simple, and perhaps you have tried, hopefully someone who reads this has not tried, and is sucessful.
Best of luck.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The investors saw an opportunity, purchased all they could, got screen names on gunbroker.com, and have commenced raping the general public. </div></div>
I've logged into gunbroker perhaps three times in my life, and never more than just in passing. Is it your belief that a new cottage industry has emerged? An additional tier of reloading middle men?
Do they charge the HazMat shipping costs for Primers and Powders?
As a big fan of commerce, I gues I can't blame people for seizing an opportunity, but consumers have to be aware and willing to do their homework.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HasgunWilltravel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The investors saw an opportunity, purchased all they could, got screen names on gunbroker.com, and have commenced raping the general public. </div></div>
I've logged into gunbroker perhaps three times in my life, and never more than just in passing. Is it your belief that a new cottage industry has emerged? An additional tier of reloading middle men?
Do they charge the HazMat shipping costs for Primers and Powders?
As a big fan of commerce, I gues I can't blame people for seizing an opportunity, but consumers have to be aware and willing to do their homework.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
There are only so many US producers of ammo. ALL of them have "requirement contracts" with the military and other governments. They are told to bid on a minimum level of ammunition, but MIGHT be required to provide all their output. Winchester/Olin, so rumor holds, has put on a 2nd and 3rd shift to produce ammunition for the military and other government agencies. Lake City has been on 3 shifts for two years now.
It goes overseas, and NOT just to our wonderful troops - but to the local governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention other governments we support. Recently, for instance, we have been providing more ammunition and small arms to South American countries and South Africa.
Dept of State is in the loop to approve importation of ammunition, and most of the importers say it's a 3 year wait to get the approval. So when stuff DOES get in, its been in storage for so long the price has skyrocketed.
But last year there was a scandal involving a company out of florida that was supposed to find "other sources" for ammunition to fill contrats to Iraqi and Afghani forces... It didn't meet spec in more ways than one. The end result was that the majority of those contracts were then put under the requirement contract, and the ammunition is being produced domestically to meet the contracts.
Capacity that WAS committed to create our recreational stuff (like 22lr) has been converted to make the exported stuff.
Hoarding is part also the problem - but can only go on so long until the dam breaks.
There are only so many US producers of ammo. ALL of them have "requirement contracts" with the military and other governments. They are told to bid on a minimum level of ammunition, but MIGHT be required to provide all their output. Winchester/Olin, so rumor holds, has put on a 2nd and 3rd shift to produce ammunition for the military and other government agencies. Lake City has been on 3 shifts for two years now.
It goes overseas, and NOT just to our wonderful troops - but to the local governments of Iraq and Afghanistan, not to mention other governments we support. Recently, for instance, we have been providing more ammunition and small arms to South American countries and South Africa.
Dept of State is in the loop to approve importation of ammunition, and most of the importers say it's a 3 year wait to get the approval. So when stuff DOES get in, its been in storage for so long the price has skyrocketed.
But last year there was a scandal involving a company out of florida that was supposed to find "other sources" for ammunition to fill contrats to Iraqi and Afghani forces... It didn't meet spec in more ways than one. The end result was that the majority of those contracts were then put under the requirement contract, and the ammunition is being produced domestically to meet the contracts.
Capacity that WAS committed to create our recreational stuff (like 22lr) has been converted to make the exported stuff.
Hoarding is part also the problem - but can only go on so long until the dam breaks.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
Guys- This has quite a bit to do with the economy.
Companies are manufacturing less as they do not want to have large unsold stock piles. Stores are buying less for the same reason. Unsold inventory costs money and is wasted capital. When money is tight, manufacturers are MUCH better off having demand exceed supply. First the cost goes up, second, you have no unsold inventory taking up space (costing $$$) and tying up your resources.
Guys- This has quite a bit to do with the economy.
Companies are manufacturing less as they do not want to have large unsold stock piles. Stores are buying less for the same reason. Unsold inventory costs money and is wasted capital. When money is tight, manufacturers are MUCH better off having demand exceed supply. First the cost goes up, second, you have no unsold inventory taking up space (costing $$$) and tying up your resources.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
Yesterday my local gun shop owner told me he heard from the Hornady rep thet the factory is working 6d/wk 24/7 making ammo
He is charging 500$/case of 223 and 250$ for case of 9mm
Yesterday my local gun shop owner told me he heard from the Hornady rep thet the factory is working 6d/wk 24/7 making ammo
He is charging 500$/case of 223 and 250$ for case of 9mm
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
That does make some sense on supply and demand. The ammo and components have a huge demand. There is a few things that sells in a down market tobacco,alcohol and firearms. You would have thought they would have thought of this due to history.
That does make some sense on supply and demand. The ammo and components have a huge demand. There is a few things that sells in a down market tobacco,alcohol and firearms. You would have thought they would have thought of this due to history.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
I am pretty well off, but that was only because I buy in bulk for the last few years. This is just crazy stupid now.
I am pretty well off, but that was only because I buy in bulk for the last few years. This is just crazy stupid now.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
I don't understand!So all the manufacturers of primers"what are there 5 brands or so"? are working overtime cranking out large runs of primers,billions of primers???....Then supposedly the military and the ammo manufacturers are buying them up.Well,what's it been now 3 months since all the primers were sold out?Seems fishy to me!By now there should have been shipments to all the big vendors that sell primers!
Steve
I don't understand!So all the manufacturers of primers"what are there 5 brands or so"? are working overtime cranking out large runs of primers,billions of primers???....Then supposedly the military and the ammo manufacturers are buying them up.Well,what's it been now 3 months since all the primers were sold out?Seems fishy to me!By now there should have been shipments to all the big vendors that sell primers!
Steve
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unsold inventory costs money and is wasted capital. </div></div>
I call bull****.
This theory does not hold when ALL the shelves are empty, including at the grossly overpriced Bass Pro Shops in Las Vegas, where single 100s of what few primers they had 14 months ago were fully $4.99.
Now, Sportsman's Warehouse I can understand being empty, since they have squandered their revenues over the past year and left a few million dollars owing to Alliant and *several* other big suppliers of primers and powder. I'm sure there has been a bit of reluctance to ship to THEM over the past few months.
But EVERYONE else?
No, it's either supply and demand or someone's being told.
Look, the hostilities in Iraq have cooled off since the surge put the terrorists on the run again about a year ago, and Afghanistan's mini-surge is nothing compared to the half-million troops we had in SE Asia in the late 1960s.
Was there a component shortage back THEN?
The non-magnitude of these two little brushfire wars is staggering to anyone who has a grasp on history.
It's hard to believe that the non-crippled parts of our so-called recession economy could keep everything flying off the shelves faster than it can be produced for this long.
I want to see the true figures on our small arms ammo production capacity. If it really cannot keep up with military AND civilian demand right now, I would conclude that we have a huge strategic production disadvantage which makes us vulnerable to attack by any decent-sized military power. I'd hate to have to learn Ukrainian next year.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Unsold inventory costs money and is wasted capital. </div></div>
I call bull****.
This theory does not hold when ALL the shelves are empty, including at the grossly overpriced Bass Pro Shops in Las Vegas, where single 100s of what few primers they had 14 months ago were fully $4.99.
Now, Sportsman's Warehouse I can understand being empty, since they have squandered their revenues over the past year and left a few million dollars owing to Alliant and *several* other big suppliers of primers and powder. I'm sure there has been a bit of reluctance to ship to THEM over the past few months.
But EVERYONE else?
No, it's either supply and demand or someone's being told.
Look, the hostilities in Iraq have cooled off since the surge put the terrorists on the run again about a year ago, and Afghanistan's mini-surge is nothing compared to the half-million troops we had in SE Asia in the late 1960s.
Was there a component shortage back THEN?
The non-magnitude of these two little brushfire wars is staggering to anyone who has a grasp on history.
It's hard to believe that the non-crippled parts of our so-called recession economy could keep everything flying off the shelves faster than it can be produced for this long.
I want to see the true figures on our small arms ammo production capacity. If it really cannot keep up with military AND civilian demand right now, I would conclude that we have a huge strategic production disadvantage which makes us vulnerable to attack by any decent-sized military power. I'd hate to have to learn Ukrainian next year.
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
Best start working on your baby soup recipe as it's more likely to be Chinese, rather than Ukrainians, we'll be beholden to!
Best start working on your baby soup recipe as it's more likely to be Chinese, rather than Ukrainians, we'll be beholden to!
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best start working on your baby soup recipe as it's more likely to be Chinese, rather than Ukrainians, we'll be beholden to! </div></div>
Understood. I used to yell at the TeeVee years ago whenever they crowed that "Communism is dead" or "We no longer have thousands of Soviet missiles aimed at us" because I have had a healthy fear of the ChiComs since my big brother's fifth grade teacher (a Marine) was telling stories about using an E-Tool to stab the human wave attackers in Korea.
My point is that it won't take anyone as well-manned as the Chinese to overrun us if our ammo production capabilities are unable to keep up with mere civilian demand plus two tiny wars.
I know, the impact is NOT "tiny" for those whose loved ones give all. But compared to even the SE Asia "festivities", less than 20 combat deaths in a single month (January, IIRC) in Iraq is hardly an ammo-eating monster of a conflict.
Thus, I fear that even the Ukraine could clean our clocks once our ammo is all shot up.
If they haven't sold us ALL their stocks of ammo first... I remember the '80s and the occasional $2.99 box of Euro 7.62x39!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Best start working on your baby soup recipe as it's more likely to be Chinese, rather than Ukrainians, we'll be beholden to! </div></div>
Understood. I used to yell at the TeeVee years ago whenever they crowed that "Communism is dead" or "We no longer have thousands of Soviet missiles aimed at us" because I have had a healthy fear of the ChiComs since my big brother's fifth grade teacher (a Marine) was telling stories about using an E-Tool to stab the human wave attackers in Korea.
My point is that it won't take anyone as well-manned as the Chinese to overrun us if our ammo production capabilities are unable to keep up with mere civilian demand plus two tiny wars.
I know, the impact is NOT "tiny" for those whose loved ones give all. But compared to even the SE Asia "festivities", less than 20 combat deaths in a single month (January, IIRC) in Iraq is hardly an ammo-eating monster of a conflict.
Thus, I fear that even the Ukraine could clean our clocks once our ammo is all shot up.
If they haven't sold us ALL their stocks of ammo first... I remember the '80s and the occasional $2.99 box of Euro 7.62x39!
Re: Where is all the stuff? Primers/Powder
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember the '80s and the occasional $2.99 box of Euro 7.62x39!
</div></div>
Hell, for that matter, as to pricing and availability, the pre millenium stampede looks quaint by comparison!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I remember the '80s and the occasional $2.99 box of Euro 7.62x39!
</div></div>
Hell, for that matter, as to pricing and availability, the pre millenium stampede looks quaint by comparison!
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