Where to get a Garand?

[head2h2o]

I have been looking at some of the local Garand matches and thinking about starting to shoot in some of them. What is a good source to pick up a Garand? Just look for them on the gun sale sites like GunBroker, or go the route of CMP or even something else?

Thanks.

 

[m1garand30064]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Fulton armory makes an impressive garand. If you just want a shooter then cmp is probably your best bet.

 

[Mike Stolfus]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP all the way.
Great prices and you can still get ammo for them for a good price.
Mike

 

[trilogymac]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP would be my suggestion as well.

 

[303_enfield]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP = 12 M1's a year
Get some!

 

[DRAGON64]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Agreed, bought my first M1 back in May at the CMP South Store, and it was a great experience for me. I am refinishing the stock right now, as it was a couple years away from becoming firewood...

Here is my Garand after I got it home:

...along with one of the ammo clips I purchased with the rilfe:

Here is video of my trip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yib92PptFzE&feature=channel_video_title

...and video once I returned home from the 2.5 hour drive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-8olcggNwk&feature=relmfu

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

I agree, CMP for the rifle. Talk to them about wanting a good shooter when you get ready to order.

Then look for a Fajen replacement stock. It should meet all requirements for a Garand Competition rifle, and and allow you to leave the original completely alone for purposes of nostalgia.

Greg

 

[ORD]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Another vote for CMP for a nice Garand!

http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm

On the other hand, if you want a "new" (i.e. - non-historical, non-collector, shooter Garand), then the Fulton Armory pieces are exceptionally nice Garands! They have specific models that are legal for the JCG Matches, so be careful what you order if you go that route. Also, be prepared for sticker shock and for a pretty long wait (up to 1yr+) depending on the model!

As for the GunBroker Garands...if you do go that route, please be VERY careful about what you are buying. I have personally seen some VERY poor "parts gun" "put-together" Garands that not only were unsafe to shoot, they were blatant mis-representations of what they REALLY were. A "new" Fulton Garand, one of the CMP Garands (with paperwork/confirmation of its origins, etc.) or something of the like would be an okay Garand purchase off of GunBroker, but just do your homework and ask plenty of questions upfront before you move on anything.

 

[Oodin]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Another vote for CMP!!!

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<span style="color: #FF0000"> CAVEAT</span>on M1's

My shooting and loading mentor as a kid had four. Two in 30-06 and two 308's. He was a member of some marksmanship unit, I just can't recall the details. He would let me shoot them for fun using National Match Lake City ammunition. They were all four National Match guns. Because he'd been in that unit, they'd been accurize or built by the unit's armorer. Note that this is not any unit's armorer, but the marksmanship unit's armorer. The guns were bedded, for example. He died in 1999 and I bought one of the 308's right before the others went up in smoke with the collection of @700 guns. I suspect someone had a score to settle.

Now I'm 48 and since I've been playing with these things since I was a punk I know good one when I see it. These three sources are worth investigating.

CMP guns are likely more trouble than they're worth getting them to shooting quality for service rifle matches. You might get frustrated and quit. Or you might manage to send it in and make it work.

My recent research suggests to me <span style="color: #3366FF">Scott Duff is the current Garand expert </span>who is visible. I'm sure there are many others.

<span style="font-size: 11pt">http://www.m1garandrifle.com/Garandrifles.htm

http://www.nationalmatcharmory.com/homepage9.html

www.scott-duff.com/M1Garand.htm </span>

This is from one of the above websites:
<span style="color: #FF0000">CAUTION:</span> "Unless you have extensive knowledge about the M1, and the gauges to check them out, be very careful about buying M1's from individuals or at gun shows, unless you get the address & phone number of the seller and make him give you a guarantee that the rifle works propertly. I and other dealers have gotten M1's to repair that had bad barrels, worn out gas clyinders & op rods, rewelded receivers that did not function, barrels that did not headspace, & a host of other problems. Your best bet is to buy it from a reputable dealer who will stand behind his product."

A Comment on Throat Erosion from Scott Duff

<span style="font-size: 11pt">]"It has come to my attention from discussions with many M1 Garand owners that a misunderstanding of an acceptable versus an unacceptable Throat Erosion (TE) reading exists. A note of clarification is in order. When discussing serviceability specifications of U.S. Martial Arms, it is best to review the primary source, the U.S. Army Ordnance Corps documents from when the M1 rifle was the issue rifle to front-line troops. I have in my files TB ORD 587 dated 20 December 1954 entitled Field Inspection and Serviceability Standards for Small Arms Material. A chart on page four outlines the serviceability specifications for the M1, M1C, and M1D rifles “To Accompany Troops Overseas.” The specification given for “Breech Bore Rejection” is “Over 0.306” or a TE reading of 6 on a gage. No specification is given for muzzle wear. If combat troops in the 1950s were issued rifles with a TE of 6 or under, then the same is good enough for a rifle in my collection. I would not go to the John C. Garand Match at Camp Perry with a rifle with a TE of 6, but for general collecting, in my opinion, it matters little.

This is also a good time to note that based upon my observations the TE of a new production SA barrel during World War II ran anywhere from approximately 1.0 to 3.5. Pre World War II SA barrels were usually in the 0.0 to 1.0 range. Winchester barrels were generally in the -1.0 to 2.0 range, but I have seen new WRA barrels with higher and lower readings. An expanded version of this including information on post WII barrels will be published in a future issue of the Garand Collectors Association Journal (GCA). If you are not a member of the GCA and would like to join (as an M1 owner you really should be a member just as a gun owner you should be an NRA member) you may download a membership application from the GCA website at www.TheGCA.org." [/font]</span>

I hope this information helped you avoid a mess.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

While I'm no expert on Garands (or any other thing, either...), I do own a pre-war SA Garand with a Korean War era WRA barrel. I got it from the DCM in the early 1990's, and I feel like a thief in the night. The rifle is downright gorgeous.

I've done a bunch of research into Garands ever since then, and everything I've read up and/or heard completely backs up Casey's post.

Greg

 

[303_enfield]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Pay no attention to Casey Simpson about the CMP's M1's. The CMP rifles are tested and safe to shoot. Perfect rifles to start with. Yes, down the road you might put a new barrel on, or buy another rifle.

Go here and pick the ones you want. May I say get a M1D, I did!

http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm

If you don't feel like waiting. Do the road trip to the North or South store! You can pick the ones you want and get an assload of ammo. It's worth the trip!

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

tag for later

 

[IDguy]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP for sure

 

[Guest]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

+1 CMP just pick the grade you want

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

303, I understood him to mean he wants a Service Rifle match grade rifle, and I did not imply CMP rifle were not safe to shoot necessarily.

A Service Rifle match grade rifle a CMP rifle will not be.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP and don't look back

 

[303_enfield]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">303, I understood him to mean he wants a Service Rifle match grade rifle, and I did not imply CMP rifle were not safe to shoot necessarily.

A Service Rifle match grade rifle a CMP rifle will not be. </div></div>

After 40 years of shooting at Perry I have to say your wrong. CMP rifles will meet As-Issued M1 Garand EIC Match and the John C. Garand Match, an do well. What rifles do you think are loaned to state clubs and at Perry?

But an M1 can and is beat by the M16A2.

Go to the CMP forums and ask.

My 2¢

 

[STR]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP, and Deans Gun Restoration. I had him build mine. Turn around time was 10 weeks, and I'm very happy with the rifle.

 

[Midodgeguy]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Head to the CMP store and have the staff give you a hand picking out something that fills your needs. All of mine have been great!

 

[18Echo]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP and pick up one of their Criterion barrels for $179 if you want a new barrel.

I might be the odd man out, but I look at these as "Battle Rifles" and as long as they are accurate to "minute of man" I'm satisfied.

the first of several Garands I bought was a 6 digit Dec 1941 manufacture. As best as I could figure it out, with my non scientific equation, the rifle was built on Dec 12, 1941 give or take a day.

The first time I took it to the range, shot 8 rounds and *ping* I was grinning ear to ear like a cheshire cat. They are just plain FUN to shoot, and surpisingly accurate with iron sights. I wonder sometimes how many souls each rifle has on it, if any at all.

 

[Kentucky Jelly]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP

I just got my first Garand a couple months ago at the North Store. I went with the Special grade, and think it is a great deal. It is a 6 digit SA receiver (Jan '42), beautiful new walnut, and the new Critereon barrel. I will probably go back to get a service grade or two at some point.

You can mail order a special grade, and know exactly what you are getting. I would want to pick out a service grade in person.

 

[Northland]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

We're going to be driving to the South store soon... I'm going to be a homeless man with alot of Garands.

 

[Lefty06]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

I ordered mine through Computer and I've been happy with it for several years now.

 

[D Day Dog]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 303_enfield</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pay no attention to Casey Simpson about the CMP's M1's. The CMP rifles are tested and safe to shoot. Perfect rifles to start with. Yes, down the road you might put a new barrel on, or buy another rifle.

Go here and pick the ones you want. May I say get a M1D, I did!

http://www.odcmp.com/Sales/rifles.htm

If you don't feel like waiting. Do the road trip to the North or South store! You can pick the ones you want and get an assload of ammo. It's worth the trip!</div></div>

I've seen an M1D for sale here in Alaska, but the guy wants over 3K for it. Looks nice though.

 

[sam626]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

I recently bought a "special" grade garand from CMP. The special is pretty much a new rifle built on a vintage receiver. Haven't got to shoot it much yet, due to having shoulder surgery right after I picked it up, But I am very impressed with its appearance, functioning, and the small amount of shooting I have done. Don't think you can do much better for $1000.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CMP guns are likely more trouble than they're worth getting them to shooting quality for service rifle matches. You might get frustrated and quit.</div></div>

I find that comment to be a bit far fetched. The reason Garands are not win matches simply because ARs are easier to shoot (note the younger shooters getting Dist. Badges).

Just about any run of the mill (field) grade CMP M1 will shoot 3 MOA. The 200 yard 10-X ring is 3.5 MOA. The 600 yard is about 2 MOA. If the gun can shoot 3 MOA, then its the shooter that looses a High Power Match, not the rifle.

I've been around Garands a long time. I've ran sniper schools using the M1C/Ds (which are unmodified except for the scope). We shot these old war horses up to 1100 yards, they work.

Also, I'm a CMP GSM Master instructor, I conduct clinics and GSM matches for the CMP. A "as issues" CMP Garand will out shoot most shooters.

The problem is people don't take time to learn to shoot the Garand. Like anything else, Garands have their quirks but they work and they shoot. I'm not talking about Match Garands, I'm talling "AS ISSUED".

I got my CMP (then DCM) Garand in 1981 or so, I've shoot the crap out of it since. It's unmodified. By all rights it shouldn't shoot. The throat measures "8", the muzzle is as bad.

The below target was fired Prone, sling un-supported. As you can see one click right and one click up would have cleaned the target. This is the same (100 yard reduced GSM) target used in GSM matches, and highpower. My worn out rifle will shoot, I'm the weak link in the chain. Besides, GSM and High Power Matches are won or lost on your hind legs, not you belly or a bench.

The thing about CMP rifles, (besides the cheap prices) is before they are sold, they are competely gone over by armors to make sure they shoot and are safe. PLUS, you'll never find better service (in case something does go wrong) then the CMP.

I'd highly recommend anyone interested in shooting Garands take a CMP GSM Clinic. They don't cost much (if any), some furnish the ammo. They are well worth the effort. Also completion of a GSM Clinic is one of the qualifications used to show, firarm use or training, to purchase from the CMP.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Hmmm. Some CMP rifles shoot better than I thought they would.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

The reason Garands are not win matches simply because ARs are easier to shoot (note the younger shooters getting Dist. Badges).

Just about any run of the mill (field) grade CMP M1 will shoot 3 MOA. The 200 yard 10-X ring is 3.5 MOA. The 600 yard is about 2 MOA. If the gun can shoot 3 MOA, then its the shooter that looses a High Power Match, not the rifle.

</div></div>

Kraig,

You just contradicted yourself. Is it the rifle or the shooter that matters? I believe its both. Take one shooter, give him a field grade CMP garand and put him in a HP match (I am talking full course, say a Regional, as thats what I think of when we are talking HP matches) and he is going to shoot a lower score than with his AR and probably lower than with a match rifle, say a bolt gun. He can train all he wants with that Garand but he is still going to shoot lower scores than with the other two rifles he is spends the same, or probably even less, time training on them. I can shoot a pretty mean Garand, certainly a mean 03 and the other vintage rifles, but you sure the heck arent going to see me shooting them on the full course in a typical HP match cause I am not going to shoot the scores I can shoot with my bolt gun. I could practice all I want with the garand but I would be just wasting my time and ammo.

I think what you were thinking is that one can take a field grade garand out and theoretically use it to clean the HP targets as they are all at least 2 minutes or better for the 10 ring. WHich, yeah, possible, but if you have a 2 MOA rifle on a 2 moa target, it better be pointed dead center on every shot or you are losing points right off the bat!

Either way, the CMP Garands are usually pretty good pieces, they work, they shoot, and they will hit a reasonable size target, but IHMO, a match rifle they aint.....battle weapon, minute of man, yep.

What we hope for is that folks will buy one, get hooked on shooting in competition, have fun and stay hooked. Thats exactly what happened to me.

John

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Mudcat, I probably wrote that bad.

What I'm trying to say is a service grade M1 is capable of shooting as good of scores as a service grade M16.

However, do to the recoil and weight, youngsters and women fair better with the M16.

A Service Grand M1 will not out shoot a Match AR such as a White Oak, then again a service grade M16 wont out shoot a match M1.

I can shoot an M1 better then I can an M16, simply because I've been shooting M1s and M14s for over 30 years and just been shooting match grand M16s the last 5 years or so.

Regardless, a 3 inch M1, is capable of winning most across the course high power matches. But the Garand, like the M16 can't read wind, so its back to the shooter.

I'll have to check but if memory serves me right, last years Presidents Hundred was won by a guy shooting a NM M1.

For $495 and up, its hard to beat the price of a CMP M1.

 

[head2h2o]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Guys, thanks for all the input.

 

[1stIDvet]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

Thought someone might want this. There is a short supply.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?i...e&groupid=6

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'll have to check but if memory serves me right, last years Presidents Hundred was won by a guy shooting a NM M1.

</div></div>
Doubt Fuchs would have been using a Garand, but you are right in that a NM M1 Garand was used by one of the folks that made the P100. Steve used one, just to prove it could still be done. And, in the right hands, it can be done every year.

John

 

[Kentucky Jelly]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1stIDvet</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thought someone might want this. There is a short supply.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?i...e&groupid=6 </div></div>

Not a lot of info on their site about them.

CMP had correct grade D's for 1500. No scope, or mount.

 

[crenshawwayne]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

CMP is awesome, buy Fulton armory makes a very good garand. It depends on what you want. A CMP garand is all original, but a Fulton armory is more accurate.

 

[madcratebuilder]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

The CMP Garands are a great starting point, it's a great way to start off. If you get serious about shooting matches and want to win then you well be upgrading the rifle.

You could start with a Garand that is already match ready. The Garand Guy makes some pretty spiffy rifles. I have one of his Kreiger barreled Garands, great shooting. It does not have a mil-surp look so if that's what you want go CMP.

http://www.garandguy.com/issuegrade.htm

If your lucky you may find a case of this.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Where to get a Garand?

I don't know.............in most matches where a Garand would be used require an Off Hand or Standing phase.

In such, matches are won and lost on your hind legs, not the belly. It would seem to me that money would be better spend on ammo, rounds down range in the Off Hand position.

If you gun can shoot 2-3 MOA, its capable of cleaning the standing targets. Most CMP Garands, even the field grade are capable of cleaning the targets if we can do it. The only way to do it is good practice, mostly in the Off Hand Position.