Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

#51
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

I own a surgeon scalpel, a Gap gladius and a R&D build on a stiller predator action. The surgeon is the smoothest. Will be receiving a SAC build on the Alpha ll action in a few weeks. Ill let ya know how that one is.
 
#52
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if your gun doesn't have a scratch on it and less then 1500 rounds you should not be able to talk in this post, lol.
</div></div>

BigJoe, are you saying that it takes 1500 rounds and scratches to make a $1k to $1.5K action "smooth"?
I don't really understand your comment. </div></div>

No it means u don't have the experience to make a comparison. There are too many people who have their first gun from builder xxxxx and that their gun they rarely shoot and haven't even broken in is the greatest gun ever made and all other are shit. If u don't have the experience to comment as in having time on well used versions of a good variety then your comment is useless as u have no frame of reference.
 
#57
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

It depends on the coaings/finish as well. Both my Templars were Cerakoted and a so they felt a bit sticky at first, but after about 3000 rounds nothing beats my LA Defiance. My AE, after 5000+ rounds is very smooth as well.
 
#58
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if your gun doesn't have a scratch on it and less then 1500 rounds you should not be able to talk in this post, lol.
</div></div>

BigJoe, are you saying that it takes 1500 rounds and scratches to make a $1k to $1.5K action "smooth"?
I don't really understand your comment. </div></div>

No it means u don't have the experience to make a comparison. There are too many people who have their first gun from builder xxxxx and that their gun they rarely shoot and haven't even broken in is the greatest gun ever made and all other are shit. If u don't have the experience to comment as in having time on well used versions of a good variety then your comment is useless as u have no frame of reference. </div></div>

Thanks Big Joe "the squid".
You are as full of shit as a Christmas goose.
 
#60
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

The question you should be asking is which one is the most reliable. Smoothness has a lot to do with the coating applied. A bolt that has been coated in whatever that feels sticky may feel smooth after removing the cerakote or whatever was used. I had a defiance lock up on me in a match to the point I had to kick the damn thing open. Tight tolerances are not always a good thing. Called Surgeon after the match and have not had a problem since. I will take reliabilty over smoothness any day. I am not saying all defiances have this issue as they make a lot of actions built to other specs.
 
#61
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep I stayed at a holiday in express last night, keep telling yourself that, god knows I have no experience. </div></div>

I don't question your experience.
I question how you can arbitrarily place a specific number of rounds (1500) on an action to give it your seal of approval...no pun intended.
 
#62
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

I'm making a blanket statement on guys who buy a 4k dollar gun they never shoot and consider themselves experts. Not necessarily u. And the number was a blanket statement made that actions break in and that whatever action the moment u get it doesn't mean it won't be smooth later if u shoot the damn thing.
 
#63
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep I stayed at a holiday in express last night, keep telling yourself that, god knows I have no experience. </div></div>

I don't question your experience.
I question how you can arbitrarily place a specific number of rounds (1500) on an action to give it your seal of approval...no pun intended.</div></div>

I think what he meant to say is that a rifle action should have quite a few rounds on it before any true acknowledgement is made. I'm sure 1500 was arbitrary.
 
#64
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

I see BigJoe's point. Standing in a room finger-fucking actions all day long really doesn't equate to vast first-hand experience. It's kind of like shooting one 1/4 MOA group with a factory safe queen rifle and then going out and saying it shoots 1/4 MOA ALL DAY LONG.
 
#65
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm making a blanket statement on guys who buy a 4k dollar gun they never shoot and consider themselves experts. Not necessarily u. And the number was a blanket statement made that actions break in and that whatever action the moment u get it doesn't mean it won't be smooth later if u shoot the damn thing. </div></div>

OK,
now we're singing off the same page in the hymn book.

If an action isn't functioning flawlessly after several hundred rounds I'm not going to waste my time and ammo waiting on your magical 1500 round mark. There's something wrong with that picture.
 
#66
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep I stayed at a holiday in express last night, keep telling yourself that, god knows I have no experience. </div></div>

I don't question your experience.
I question how you can arbitrarily place a specific number of rounds (1500) on an action to give it your seal of approval...no pun intended.</div></div>

<span style="color: #FF6666">I think what he meant to say is that a rifle action should have quite a few rounds on it before any true acknowledgement is made. I'm sure 1500 was arbitrary.</span>
</div></div>

Mike, thank you very much for speaking up on Big Joe's behalf.
I would have expected no less.
 
#67
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Sake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see BigJoe's point. </div></div>

Yep, I'm sure you do.
How many rounds do you need to put through an action to give it your seal of approval?
 
#68
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

All bullshit aside, the most consistently smooth actions I have seen are FN SPR actions. I have seen them new out of the box only parkerized, fresh cerakote and lubed, and heavily used with little finish of any sort.

Also as Frank Green mentioned these actions also have a good bolt lift. If only someone would copy this action and put it in a 700 footprint and hole spacing, it would probably make a million fucking dollars and set the bar high.

Ern
 
#69
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

I have a cricket i got from wal mart, i have 12 rounds down the pipe and its slicker than a nun's cunt, i imagine all the rest are crap compared to it

did i mention its in 22.LR, the LR is for long range
 
#70
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

Savage Super Sporter Model 45, however I have never seen much less handled any other one besides the one I own. So I can't discern if I just got a good one, or if they all are this nice.
 
#71
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kraig I want to pick your brain about my 03 but you are over your pm limit. </div></div>

Shoot me a message, I cleaned out my PM box.
 
#72
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Mike, thank you very much for speaking up on Big Joe's behalf.
I would have expected no less.</div></div>

fw, this looks extremely sarcastic and if it is, I don't know WTF your problem is. I neither attacked you or "defended" Joe. I was making a objective, unbiased observation based off of your little spat.

But now that you've chose to take it above and beyond, I'll play. So what does this mean?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If an action isn't functioning flawlessly after several hundred rounds I'm not going to waste my time and ammo waiting on your magical 1500 round mark. There's something wrong with that picture.</div></div>

Learn to read. Joe said 1500 is an arbitrary number. The point is any action with a lot of rounds on it will be very smooth. I've had R700 actions I would put up against anything as far as a smooth bolt throw goes. A new custom "X" action with only 40 rounds to break it in is not going to be as smooth as any action with thousands of rounds. Which brings me to my next point. When you say "If an action isn't functioning flawlessly after several hundred rounds I'm not going to waste my time and ammo waiting on your magical 1500 round mark.", what is that supposed to mean? No one is talking about functionality, we're talking about how smooth a bolt throw is. Of course if your action is not "functioning" who would expect you to wait. But last time I checked this conversation was about the smoothness of a bolt throw, not whether or not the action was functioning.

So here's to the OP and any other interested party. Get out and shoot your rifle and after many hundreds-thousands of bolt throws, any action will be as smooth as you want it to be. That's a fact.
 
#73
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if your gun doesn't have a scratch on it and less then 1500 rounds you should not be able to talk in this post, lol.
</div></div>

BigJoe, are you saying that it takes 1500 rounds and scratches to make a $1k to $1.5K action "smooth"?
I don't really understand your comment. </div></div>

No it means u don't have the experience to make a comparison. There are too many people who have their first gun from builder xxxxx and that their gun they rarely shoot and haven't even broken in is the greatest gun ever made and all other are shit. If u don't have the experience to comment as in having time on well used versions of a good variety then your comment is useless as u have no frame of reference. </div></div>

Thanks Big Joe "the squid".
You are as full of shit as a <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #000099">Christmas goose</span></span>. </div></div>

I find this statement extremely offensive, like most of the other shit that you have posted in this thread.
 
#74
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

Holding a Surgeon action and BAT action, side by side, and throwing / lifting the bolts, I can honestly say that the Surgeon felt gritty and "sloppy" compared to the BAT. All actions do get more and more smooth with use. I would deduct that if you start with an action that is extremely smooth, its going to get even smoother.

I think the best thing for anybody to do, is get your hands on the actions you are interested in. And feel for yourself. A lot of guys on here avoid the BATs, saying they are meant for the bench, and will bind if a single fleck of sand gets in it. I have NEVER had this issue. Not once. But if that concerns you, ask BAT to open up the tolerances. Even after they do that, I bet its smoother than the Surgeon.
 
#75
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: over_watch</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I find this statement extremely offensive, like most of the other shit that you have posted in this thread. </div></div>

Why are you so offended? Folks disagree on here all the time.
And there are posts in this thread that are a lot more offensive than mine.
Maybe it would have offended you less if I had "called BS" or "thrown the BS flag"?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if your gun doesn't have a scratch on it and less then 1500 rounds you should not be able to talk in this post, lol.

i take nothing away from any smiths guns, i questions some peoples expereince level to be able to offer opinions.

</div></div>

Everybody's opinions count, as long as they don't exceed their experience level.
It's just my opinion that you don't have to have a scratched rifle with 1500 rounds through it to be able to comment on how smooth the action is.
If you're talking about broken bolt handles, extractors, or bolt stops, absolutely.
Good actions should be smooth right out of the box.
 
#76
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holding a Surgeon action and BAT action, side by side, and throwing / lifting the bolts, I can honestly say that the Surgeon felt gritty and "sloppy" compared to the BAT. All actions do get more and more smooth with use. I would deduct that if you start with an action that is extremely smooth, its going to get even smoother.

I think the best thing for anybody to do, is get your hands on the actions you are interested in. And feel for yourself. A lot of guys on here avoid the BATs, saying they are meant for the bench, and will bind if a single fleck of sand gets in it. I have NEVER had this issue. Not once. But if that concerns you, ask BAT to open up the tolerances. Even after they do that, I bet its smoother than the Surgeon. </div></div>

Exactly why I am on the list for a BTA.....BAT TACTICAL ACTION!!

The wait is killing me!!
 
#77
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleyTime</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Holding a Surgeon action and BAT action, side by side, and throwing / lifting the bolts, I can honestly say that the Surgeon felt gritty and "sloppy" compared to the BAT. All actions do get more and more smooth with use. I would deduct that if you start with an action that is extremely smooth, its going to get even smoother.

I think the best thing for anybody to do, is get your hands on the actions you are interested in. And feel for yourself. A lot of guys on here avoid the BATs, saying they are meant for the bench, and will bind if a single fleck of sand gets in it. I have NEVER had this issue. Not once. But if that concerns you, ask BAT to open up the tolerances. Even after they do that, I bet its smoother than the Surgeon. </div></div>

Exactly why I am on the list for a BTA.....BAT TACTICAL ACTION!!

The wait is killing me!! </div></div>

A properly blueprinted and well tuned Remington is as smooth or better as any BAT or Surgeon.

If you've ever shot a TacOps, you already know this.
wink.gif







 
#78
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

I have BAT actions (HRPIC), Surgeons (1086 and 591) and Defiance Machine (Rebel).

Out of all of them, my Surgeons are the smoothest. The bolt on the 1086 almost works itself - I love it!!

Second place goes to Defiance Machine & then my BAT HRPIC. The BAT is nice but it seems a little gritty and binds when you run the bolt quickly. Its rather new, so I'm hoping it wears in & gets a little better.
 
#79
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

PGW has to be added as well as tuscondave's PGW 308 is one of the nicest guns i've ever had the oppurtunity to shoot.
 
#81
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fw707</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pete Sake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I see BigJoe's point. </div></div>

Yep, I'm sure you do.
How many rounds do you need to put through an action to give it your seal of approval? </div></div>

It's not a set # so much as it is taking a rifle and using it in various conditions and positions. Round count equates to experience with said action. Standing in a room in a position that is not a usual shooting position cycling various actions 40-50 times each on an empty chamber comes no where close to actually shooting and experiencing how each action functions.

I am having a hard time quantifying "seal of approval". Could you please elaborate?
 
#82
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

My knee jerk reaction would be ai/badger, but there are exceptions to every rule. I ran a long action Lawton for a time and it was glorious. Not sure if that's the norm, but it was very smooth.

If you're asking what action has the smoothest lockup, shouldn't you be looking for a straight pull bolt
wink.gif


All kidding aside, each action has a different feel. I have some blueprinted 700s that are very smooth, certainly not something you can consider normal for that action. Just get a nice short throw bolt and be done with it
 
#84
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Guy Montag</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

A properly blueprinted and well tuned Remington is as smooth or better as any BAT or Surgeon.

</div></div>

Absolutely.
I have a tuned and Cera-Koted SA 700 action that is as smooth, or smoother than any custom action I've ever felt.
 
#85
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

Does a Kelby action count? I haven't handled a lot of the actions mentioned here, but I would like to see an action smoother than a kelby.
Where is the best place to see all the actions mentioned and work the bolt yourself? The shot show?
 
#86
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

AI and Tikka are both very smooth, but this crusty old Rem700 that has been worked over for years and passed onto me is pretty smooth in my hand. High end with a good finish and you'll need a computer to tell you which one is smoother.
 
#87
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Remlin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where do the Stiller actions fall in this list? Opinions welcome. </div></div>
I had a Stiller Viper once, in 6PPC, and the action was considerably clunkier than the actions on T3 Varmints I have (.223 & 22-250). A .243 T3 Hunter had a slightly smoother action while the old workhorse T3's in 30-06 and .270 were not as smooth. Like with any custom action YMMV.
 
#90
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

Nothing can touch the Colt Sauer 80/90 for smoothness or the fastest doubletap. The Sauer 80 action was used in the Sauer SSG2000 tactical rifle.

I have a Carl Gustaf 3000 Sporter (Sauer 80 action) in 6.5x55 incoming.
 
#91
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

Straight out-of-the-box smoothest I've ever felt were the actions on the two Steyr Tactical Elite rifles that I've owned. Both were as slick as wet ice. And both were smoother than the BAT CheyTac action that I owned. That is an amazing feat for a mass produced rifle.
 
#92
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

A Schuerman Arms custom rifle had the smoothest custom action I've felt.

Different than any other bolt action because it had a assisted camming mechanism. You could literally tilt the rifle muzzle down and watch the bolt slide forward and cam closed under it's own force.
 
#95
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

BAT & Nesika are tops in my book. Defiance isn't far behind.

I was disappointed in the 1 Stiller tac30 I briefly owned.
 
#96
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slm9s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BAT & Nesika are tops in my book. Defiance isn't far behind.

I was disappointed in the 1 Stiller tac30 I briefly owned. </div></div>

I don't feel my TAC 30 is very smooth either. I think the extra bolt clearance lends itself to feeling a little looser then others. Doesn't mean it isn't a great action. Super accurate and thus far, reliable.

Would love to own a bat 3-lug action. Full bolt diameter and a rolling ball on the cocking head must be smooth as butter.
 
#97
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

I have, own, and shoot (in no particular order)
Surgeon S/A (with hard chrome bolt),
Barnard (P, PL),
BAT,
Defiance,
Rem 700.
All have at least 1,500 rounds through them.

When I am on the guns, working the bolt with my cheekweld, the Barnard is the smoothest (as I would expect from a single shot), followed closely by the Surgeon, and Defiance (pretty much identical). The BAT, Surgeon, and Defiance are all repeaters.

I had the BAT bolt Ionbonded, and it is still working in from that modification - so its a touch less slippery than when I first got the action.

Jeffvn
 
#98
Re: Which action is the s-m-o-o-t-h-e-s-t...?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jason C</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slm9s</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BAT & Nesika are tops in my book. Defiance isn't far behind.

I was disappointed in the 1 Stiller tac30 I briefly owned. </div></div>

I don't feel my TAC 30 is very smooth either. I think the extra bolt clearance lends itself to feeling a little looser then others. Doesn't mean it isn't a great action. Super accurate and thus far, reliable. </div></div>

I started using Frog Lube on my TAC30AW and it made quite a difference. Try it and see if it slickens up the feel of your Stiller. I use the paste and then set it in the sun here in AZ. You can also use a hair dryer so that the lube can soak into the hot metal. Then let it cool and try running the action.
 
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