Which caliber for 16 “ barrel

[Blue72]

Looking to build a very compact, travel, backpack chassis rifle with a folding stock. Im trying to decide which caliber works best in such a short barrel length. This will be used for target shooting up to 800 yards and maybe some mid range deer hunting.

So far been looking at 6.5 grendel or 6mm creedmoor for its low recoil.

Would love some feedback on this

 

[6cmShooter]

Dmr out of vegas has a video on doing short 6.5 creedmoor and having very good results with them. The video is about three years old though. Heres the link to it

 

[MarinePMI]

I think you're on the right track with a 6.5 Grendel. Speeds will be a bit low due to the barrel (limiting it's range), but it's a good cartridge IMHO for a compact rifle set up.

 

[lou400a]

7mm-08, 284 win, 260...

 

[brianf]

Deleted.

 

[CaptNemo]

6.5 Grendel is a winner if you need factory ammo or a 6 AR if you want to handload

 

[6brshooter]

Bolt gun? 6br is a great rd for short barrels. H4895 works great in 6br and it works great in shorter barrels. 6 creed has more case capacity but a fair amount is gonna be burnt outside the barrel. I had a 17.5 or 18" 6br, 107@2740 and 105h@2720. Load it with 105 hunting vld or 103 eldx and it would be great on deer sized game.

 

[MarinePMI]

Feeding a 6BR case reliably would be my concern in a hunting rifle...

 

[6brshooter]

He said chassis, I assumed aics mag. I've been making that work in Tikka, rem, and savages since 2010, lol

 

[MarinePMI]

He said chassis, I assumed aics mag. I've been making that work in Tikka, rem, and savages since 2010, lol

I'm not denying it can't be done, but there's a reason the 6BR never was big, as a hunting cartridge. It is temperamental to get to feed reliably, AICS mag or not. If the OP wants to got that route, hey, go for it. But, there's no denying it can be problematic to get to feed reliably. That short, straight walled body and steep angled shoulder just makes for a very clunky feeding round.

<shrug> The information is out there, the OP can decide I suppose...I'm just tossing a warning out there.

 

[6brshooter]

Lot of guys use 6 dasher in prs matches. Its straighter body(basically ackley) and has 40° shoulders. You are right feeding problems can occur, just like every other cartridge.

 

[Aaros143]

I've had great luck with 308 and 6.5 Creedmoors out of a 16" rifle. Shot them plenty out to 1000.

 

[CaptNemo]

There’s always the 6 Gay Tiger...

 

[fdkay]

The .308 is one of the more short barrel friendly cartridges when it comes to full size cartridges.
Honestly, I think for a 16 inch barrel, the 6.8 would be the way to go. It was designed specifically with 16 inch barrels in mind. The 6.5 grendel is a good cartridge but it was designed around a 24 inch barrel. It loses quite a bit when you chop 8 inches off the barrel. The 6.5 creedmoor also loses quite a bit in the velocity department.
If you aren't averse to reloading, 7mm IMSHA.

 

[White Mamba]

Ive killed alot of Big game animals with a 14.5" grendel and 123amx. The grendel wont be a issue, it will also get you to 800yrds.
I also had a shorty 243 in 16" which is not to far off from the 6creed, if you hand load you can keep the speed up.
The 6.5 creed would be the easiest to build but thats not what you asked

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

How about a 6.5 saum anyone tried it?
I get 3200 in a 25" barrel with 142's, wonder if a 16 would still put up 2900?

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

You mentioned travel and hunting, so I’d lean towards something I could find ammo for anywhere, just in case. 308 or 6.5 CM would be my choice if I was traveling. Do you plan to reload for it? The boring old 308 can be very versatile for hunting game big and small. Recoil is not bad but it’s not going to be the best for your longer range target shooting compared to the smaller calibers. Personally I’d love a shorty in 6.5x47 to match my comp rifle.

I hunt with a 16” 308 topped with an Ultra 7 and nothing has ever walked away from it. I do load my hunting rounds hot, but I only fire a few of these a season and it’s really not necessary, just fun for me. Currently using 150 Accubonds at 2880 and 130 Barnes TTSX at 3050 for whitetails. Not too shabby for a shorty.

 

[Blue72]

Ive ruled out 308 because im not a fan of recoil. 6.5 creedmoor is as far as I would go, but prefer less

 

[CaptNemo]

Paul - @LRRPF52 has a bunch of experience with 6.5 Grendel in Short Barrels.
I'm sure he can guide you toward the do's and don'ts in the world of Short rifles.
He's responsible for my entry into the Grendel World.

5 Rounds of hand loaded 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip at 100 yards

 

[Greg Langelius *]

According to the Speer manual and their 120gr Gold Dot bullet, velocity loss from 24" length is 20fps deducted for each inch shorter. So we're talking ballpark only, but 8in shorter should equate to around 150-170fps velocity loss.

I like the Federal Fusion MSR ammunition line, and have found the 62gr 223 version to be both accurate and hard hitting.

IMHO the bullet probably come from Speer (same manufacturing group) and the construction very closely parallels the Gold Dot.

I would suggest their 6.5G 120gr load. Claiming 2600fps, I'd assume a 24" test barrel, and suggest 2450fps as a more realistic speed out of a 16" barrel.

Just a SWAG, I'd be pretty comfortable with the estimate.

I'm in the Corona-Derailed process of load development testing of the 6.5g Gold Dot in a pair of AR's, 24" and 20". It's tricky, because I suspect the AR 6.5G ejector is not strong enough to permit full bore loads in a 24" barrel (longer dwell accentuating ejector stress), but there's a bright side.

Bolt guns don't have such problems; and I have already accepted the 62gr 223 Fusion MSR load for my 20" Mossberg MVP Predator bolt gun. It becomes a deer rifle at distances up to around 150-200yd. What's sauce for the bolt gun is often not sauce for the AR; but the bolt gun comes out on top with this adage. I live In SE AZ now, but a 200yd Deer shot back in my old digs (Central NY Finger Lakes District) was an almost impossibly long shot to find.

I have a Savage 10FCM Scout with a 7.62x39 chambering. I had bought it with the intention of swapping out the barrel for one of the PPC iterations. It shot so good, I abandoned that idea.

But now that 6.5g barrels are available, maybe the plan could work with that modification. It's a plan long in the making; but it's also evolving nicely.

Have you tried looking at these? $1050 list, probably cheaper from a dealer, or at auction; add optics, sling and bipod, and you're off to the races. The 6.5 Creed can be your Huckleberry; or the 223 can reach to 600 reliably, pretty Target-Ok out to 800 with the right loads, and is 33.5" long, 7.5lb...

Greg

 

[Blue72]

Anyone with 224 valkyrie ?

Might consider this for its really low recoil

 

[MarinePMI]

Anyone with 224 valkyrie ?

Might consider this for its really low recoil

That's certainly possible, but many states don't allow deer to be taken with anything below a .243"caliber.

 

[6brshooter]

20" 6.5creed, 147@2725fps

17.8" 6.5creed, 140eldm@2670

 

[Slab74]

I’ve taken the majority of my black tail deer with a 6.8 spc. Not a 800 yard deer rifle round, but an absolute killer.

 

[trob_205]

I’d run a 6.5cm/260 rem with a 120 class bullet if you’re hand loading. I’d have to assume even factory 6.5CM outshines the 6.5G at 16.5”. But if recoil is THAT big of deal I guess maybe. I’d personally do 6CM over 6.5G but that’s one mans opinion.

 

[6brshooter]

I’d run a 6.5cm/260 rem with a 120 class bullet if you’re hand loading. I’d have to assume even factory 6.5CM outshines the 6.5G at 16.5”. But if recoil is THAT big of deal I guess maybe. I’d personally do 6CM over 6.5G but that’s one mans opinion.

Thats my take on it. In a bolt gun, 6.5creed kicks the shit of of grendel. My 17.8 has the same speed, with a 140, as a 24" grendel has with a 123gr.

 

[trob_205]

Thats my take on it. In a bolt gun, 6.5creed kicks the shit of of grendel. My 17.8 has the same speed, with a 140, as a 24" grendel has with a 123gr.

Yea. It’s a decent cartridge for an AR but that’s about it for me.

 

[6brshooter]

There's one really vocal grendel fan, he's a great shooter, but he does alot of shooting at 5000+'asl. I had a couple grendels, and at 350'asl its pretty average

 

[RFutch]

I’ve always wanted to do a 18” 6.8 SPC bolt gun and shoot the Berger 130 classic hunter. Low recoil, decent ballistics with that bullet and there’s a few actions available now with the right bolt face.

 

[Blue72]

I fired a friends 224 valkyrie yesterday. The recoil was equivalent to a mouse fart. I think im falling in love with this cartridge

 

[MarinePMI]

If your state allows it, go for it. I have one on a bighorn Origin with a gain twist Bartlein. It shoots.

 

[Blue72]

If your state allows it, go for it. I have one on a bighorn Origin with a gain twist Bartlein. It shoots.

Ironically my state (New York) allows any centerfire cartridge. Even 22 hornet.

 

[GetReal]

I like that short fat can.

 

[Ravenworks]

I fired a friends 224 valkyrie yesterday. The recoil was equivalent to a mouse fart. I think im falling in love with this cartridge

I'm trying to wrap my head around your thread.
So far you've covered the entire spectrum with no real idea of what you really want.
The first thing I'd be looking at is availabilities and commonalities for real world problems.
Let's say you are hunting in bear country, now what?
How much can you tailor the 224 to your needs or buy ammo to fit your needs?
That 224 does not leave much margin for error.

1,000 yards on a 16" barrel, doable but you'll work for it

 

[GetReal]

I fired a friends 224 valkyrie yesterday. The recoil was equivalent to a mouse fart. I think im falling in love with this cartridge

Its a great round. And Im loving my 224 V bolt gun. But it took me right at 750 rounds to find a good handload. And there's tons of semi guys still yet looking for a good load.

224V is like the high manitenance hot chick... if yer not in it for the long haul, you'll get burned.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

“Let's say you are hunting in bear country, now what?”

Just as Ravenworks asked, now what? Target oriented cartridges don’t necessarily make the best hunting rounds, and vice versa. I think I’d just build two rifles. For targets I’d go 6 GT or similar.

However If I was going to hunt with it, and if there was any chance of traveling into bear country, I would not consider anything less than a 30 caliber, recoil be damned. Actually after visiting Yellowstone last year, and seeing a large bear running through a field on our way to the Tetons, I don’t think I’d feel good about my little 308. That monster was huge! Give me a lightweight 350 Whelen, I’ll learn to handle it just fine.

Damn, now I want to build one.

 

[Blue72]

I think I was pretty clear what I wanted in my first post. Im not looking for a thousand yards and Im not concerned about bears.

I have plenty of heavy artillery, this is going to be my compact fun gun . Most targets are 100-600 yards with the occassional 800. I live in the northeast. It's almost impossible to find a hunting situation that exceeds 200 yards, most are under a hundred

 

[LRRPF52]

Looking to build a very compact, travel, backpack chassis rifle with a folding stock. Im trying to decide which caliber works best in such a short barrel length. This will be used for target shooting up to 800 yards and maybe some mid range deer hunting.

So far been looking at 6.5 grendel or 6mm creedmoor for its low recoil.

Would love some feedback on this

Very compact
Travel
Backpack Chassis Rifle
Folding Stock

Looking at 6.5 Grendel or 6m CM

When you say "very compact", what kind of physical space dimensions are we talking about?

Does something like this fit the size you're talking about?

 

[LRRPF52]

 

[LRRPF52]

If you go up to a 6CM, you will need a larger/bulkier action that will be difficult to maintain a sight picture with in such a small package.

The little SAKO Vixen-inspired Howa Mini Action is a very handy, lightweight bolt action with a lot of versatility and ease of carry.

 

[CaptNemo]

If you go up to a 6CM, you will need a larger/bulkier action that will be difficult to maintain a sight picture with in such a small package.

The little SAKO Vixen-inspired Howa Mini Action is a very handy, lightweight bolt action with a lot of versatility and ease of carry.

I see that you got the "Bat Signal" I sent.
You were the first person I thought of when I read into this thread.

 

[Winny94]

I'm not denying it can't be done, but there's a reason the 6BR never was big, as a hunting cartridge. It is temperamental to get to feed reliably, AICS mag or not. If the OP wants to got that route, hey, go for it. But, there's no denying it can be problematic to get to feed reliably. That short, straight walled body and steep angled shoulder just makes for a very clunky feeding round.

<shrug> The information is out there, the OP can decide I suppose...I'm just tossing a warning out there.

Ehh...maybe 10 years ago. Not so much of an issue anymore. Mags and mag kits galore now.

 

[Blue72]

Very compact
Travel
Backpack Chassis Rifle
Folding Stock

Looking at 6.5 Grendel or 6m CM

When you say "very compact", what kind of physical space dimensions are we talking about?

Does something like this fit the size you're talking about?

Exactly what im looking for. What chassis is that?

 

[hereinaz]

I am building a .22 grendel on the Howa Mini and looks like good velocity with 77 grainers in a 16 to 18 inch barrel.

Gonna be my backpack gun.

 

[LRRPF52]

Exactly what im looking for. What chassis is that?

JTAC Industries

I've never heard of them until just the other day, but they look exactly like what you're looking for.

They have 4 different paths towards getting what you're looking for:

Screech Owl Chassis
Custom Elf Owl Pistol
Elf Owl Chassis
Custom Elf Owl Rifle

 

[LRRPF52]

I am building a .22 grendel on the Howa Mini and looks like good velocity with 77 grainers in a 16 to 18 inch barrel.

Gonna be my backpack gun.

With .224 AR or .22 Grendel, I would look at 80gr and higher as well. You'll get way better wind-deflection and more energy on-target. A buddy of mine is doing a lot of wildcat work with .224 cats right now shooting 80gr and heavier. Surprisingly-capable out to 1000yds from a bolt gun. He's re-barreling Howa Mini actions and doing all kinds of work to them. Makes a great little training rifle.

 

[cro789]

I have been kicking around the Jtac elf owl with the new 6 ARC. If I go with the pistol I would put the 14.5 barrel in 1/7 twist. Just for a little faster spin. Checked on Berger web site using the twist calculator and the 1/7 shows a better stability..

 

[Abbotm2]

If you cut your desired rang in half, 300blk could fit INTO a backpack with a 10.5" barrel, and still take deer out to 200 with 110s. Bonus if you have suppressors. I really enjoy my 16" as a woods gun here in NC.

It fun to see new shooters eyes light up when shooting suppressed blackout.

 

[MNhunter1]

I'm a huge fan of the 6.8SPC as a hunting caliber in a semi-auto AR15 platform. It's a great round that was developed for shorter barrels...in the AR15 platform. However, I've never really considered it an ideal bolt action round once you remove the limitations of needing it to fit in an AR15 platform. I was going to recommend 308, but you stated you were looking for something with less recoil. I'm sorry I don't really have a recommendation, but what might be ideal for your 800yd target caliber will not necessarily be ideal for your mid range deer criteria. I would try to narrow down my "mid range deer" distance and identify a caliber and bullet that is up to the task and use that as my starting point. Sticking to a more common caliber would also likely cast a wider net of bullet selections to help cover both these preferences. I'd still take a hard look at the 6.8(.277) as it will accomplish the task, but there is likely a larger cased short action caliber that would do it a little bit better in a bolt action, I just haven't gone down the rabbit hole myself.

 

[MarinePMI]

If they ever release the bullets (Berger) than a .25CM or maybe a stubby .257 Roberts might fit the ticket...