Which custom Action?

[Kubitza123]

I see a lot of different custom actions now , but which do you consider to be the best Short Action and Best long?

Kelbly, Stiller, BAT, etc?

Who's got the best quality and most features for an accurate build you all you Pro's opinions?

 

[aaronfor10]

Re: Which custom Action?

I believe that the consensus here on the hide would be that the Surgeon actions will be the head-and-shoulders favorite. I've got one on order and can't wait for it. The thing that sold me was the integrated rail and recoil lug. I thought that this was a nice touch.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Which custom Action?

BR/F-Class
BAT or Stolle

Tactical/Field/F-Class
Defiance Machine
Surgeon
Stiller

 

[mkollman74]

Re: Which custom Action?

What will you be doing with the rifle? Is weight an issue? There are many good choices. I went with Badger.

 

[excaliber]

Re: Which custom Action?

For the short action, I like the Stiller because of the extractor,(m16 style) Surgeon uses Remington style. Stiller also makes integrated rail. For the 338 Lapua, Surgeon,Stiller, Barker all make great actions. Some will argue about the built in recoil lug on the Surgeon but why pay more because of that. This website is a Surgeon favorite but why don`t you see them on the benchrest circuit. Some of the best groups ever shot was with Stiller actions. Bat and Defiance is making great actions.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BR/F-Class
BAT or Stolle

Tactical/Field/F-Class
Defiance Machine
Surgeon
Stiller
</div></div>

Can only speak to the tactical....cant go wrong with those.

possible addition of a Bighorn

 

[jonthomps]

Re: Which custom Action?

My vote goes to Defiance. Owned a couple of their actions and have never had any hiccups. Heard lots of good things about Badger too, but I have no personal experience with them. Depends on the use of the rifle I guess too.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Which custom Action?

Forgot Badger......

 

[300ATT]

Re: Which custom Action?

I have tried both Badger and Bighorn. Love the smoothness of the Bighorn and the 60 degree bolt throw of the Badger. Both are great actions.

 

[armada]

Re: Which custom Action?

In a Remington clone modified, I own GAP Templar/Defiance actions as well as Surgeons. In a non Remington clone, I prefer the Badgers. I have quite a few of all 3 actions I mentioned. I do also own some Stiller actions. I don't know which is the best of my 4 that I own, but I can say that I do prefer the Badger and the Templar/Defiance equally in either long and short. I have them in 308/260/300WM/300WSM/338 Lapua.

Heck, I think they're all good.

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Which custom Action?

Bighorn actions are great. My shooting buddy has one. The badger are fantastic actions IF they are sent to George @ GAP to be "fixed".

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Which custom Action?

they are all good

honestly its pretty hard to beat a r700 with PTG bolt but i really don't want to start that damn debate again

custom actions i have used/own

surgeon: awesome tactical action
stiller: seemed fine, never had any issues
defiance: great action have a couple of em now
m2008 badger: i will let you know as i have one incoming
bighorn: i have yet to hear a single bad thing about them, plan on using one for future build
BAT tactical: once again unproven but their reputation in F class is set in stone, again planning on trying one eventually

you really can't go wrong if its built by the right person. stick with the best names in the industry like just about any of the smiths on this site (GAP, APA, black ops, tac ops, graduous, etc etc) and you will not go wrong and i guaruntee it will be a hammer.

all the options that people swoon over are usually fixes for stuff i've never seen break like the integrated base... i've never seen one come off if put on correctly. everyone hits on surgeon for using a remington extractor... you ever heard of a surgeon having any huge issues?... neither have i.

or just say fuck it and buy a AI or DTA... just saying

 

[Chiller]

Re: Which custom Action?

At the end of the day it comes down to what are you going to do with the rifle?

An AIAE mk III or a TRG 22

both "stock" rifles and both can run any comp and can "go to war" on one platform. Both have great two stage triggers and are proven platforms.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bighorn actions are great. My shooting buddy has one. The badger are fantastic actions IF they are sent to George @ GAP to be "fixed". </div></div>

Care to elaborate?

 

[Jedi]

Re: Which custom Action?

IMHO
I have ran both stiller n defiance

Now on my 3rd defiance based build
being a southpaw defiance will build any config you want
even ran a LBRP on my F class rig
Currently run a MuTANT via an RTS chassis

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">BR/F-Class
BAT or Stolle

Tactical/Field/F-Class
Defiance Machine
Surgeon
Stiller
</div></div>
Can't beat that opinion. I own several Defiance actions and just love them. I also have Remington actions that have been worked over and they work pretty darn good too.

 

[264Charlie]

Re: Which custom Action?

Many of the custom actions are great. like some factory actions they require work by a pro to run well. I've seen guns with custom actions shoot poorly and factory + PTG bolts hammer.

It's about building and solution that works to accomplish your marksmanship goals. My recommendation would be to reach out to a reputable builder and work with them on your goal, wants and needs.

Personally, I would go with GA Precision and a Templar Action. If a GA built gun on a Templar is good enough for Shannon to take 3 1st in a row in PRS matches I would say it good enough for any of us.

 

[ronas]

Re: Which custom Action?

I just had a custom rifle built using the BAT Tactical action sold by Wolf Precision and I'm very satisfied.

 

[aaronfor10]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bighorn actions are great. My shooting buddy has one. The badger are fantastic actions IF they are sent to George @ GAP to be "fixed". </div></div>

Care to elaborate? </div></div>

I'm also interested in getting some info on this. What is it that needs "fixing"?

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Which custom Action?

BAT for sure

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Which custom Action?

One salient point: a custom action will hold its value better than a "blueprinted" or "accurized" 700 action will.

If an option is to take a 700 action and blueprint and add side bolt release, etc, buy a custom action as you want it, it'll be worth more if you ever sell the gun.

Personally, I like the Stiller actions, but they are a bit stiff when brand new.

My next build will be a Surgeon or a Bighorn.

 

[Boltfluter]

Re: Which custom Action?

Bighorn all the way.

Regards, Paul

 

[SIE107]

Re: Which custom Action?

Barnard P Action and it comes with the best trigger I have ever used outside of an Anschutz 5018 trigger. I have two of them and wanting another!

 

[Lofty]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggie410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bighorn actions are great. My shooting buddy has one. The badger are fantastic actions IF they are sent to George @ GAP to be "fixed". </div></div>

Care to elaborate? </div></div>

I'm also interested in getting some info on this. What is it that needs "fixing"? </div></div>

George says the bolt tolerances are a bit tight for a match gun subjected to dirt and debris. He also feels the metal is a tad soft.

He turns a section of the bolt knob down by a few thou to allow debris to clear so it doesn't bind. Then he sends it off for meloniting so the metal doesn't gall when you get sand or stuff in the action.

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggie410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bighorn actions are great. My shooting buddy has one. The badger are fantastic actions IF they are sent to George @ GAP to be "fixed". </div></div>

Care to elaborate? </div></div>

I'm also interested in getting some info on this. What is it that needs "fixing"? </div></div>

George says the bolt tolerances are a bit tight for a match gun subjected to dirt and debris. He also feels the metal is a tad soft.

He turns a section of the bolt knob down by a few thou to allow debris to clear so it doesn't bind. Then he sends it off for meloniting so the metal doesn't gall when you get sand or stuff in the action. </div></div>

Ive heard this bull shit so many times regarding BAT actions too. That they are too tight for anything but benchrest shooting. Every custom gun I have is built on a BAT, and ive had them in the dust, dirt, snow, rain, hayfields, etc and never once have I had a problem with a stuck/sticky bolt. If you want a Badger action, order one, and shoot it. If you have a problem with the bolt, which I doubt you probably ever will, then deal with it at that point. Personally, Id go with a BAT. Smoothest action I have every used. And Ive had my hands on Surgeons, Stiller, Templars, Kelblys, Badger, Sakos, Savage, Remington...the list goes on and on

 

[SOLO LOBO]

Re: Which custom Action?

Bighorn !
You don't need a :
Tactical Bolt handle
Fireing pin bushing
Fulted bolt
20moa rail
Over size lug
All this comes w/ the Bighorn.

Just my 2 cents.
M

 

[Boltfluter]

Re: Which custom Action?

Just received my Bighorn the other day. She is a beauty.

Regards, Paul

 

[fw707]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SNIPER-2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bighorn !
You don't need a :
Tactical Bolt handle
Fireing pin bushing
Fulted bolt
20moa rail
Over size lug
All this comes w/ the Bighorn.

Just my 2 cents.
M </div></div>

That sounds like a nice action!

 

[RufDog]

Re: Which custom Action?

[/quote]

Ive heard this bull shit so many times regarding BAT actions too. That they are too tight for anything but benchrest shooting. Every custom gun I have is built on a BAT, and ive had them in the dust, dirt, snow, rain, hayfields, etc and never once have I had a problem with a stuck/sticky bolt. If you want a Badger action, order one, and shoot it. If you have a problem with the bolt, which I doubt you probably ever will, then deal with it at that point. Personally, Id go with a BAT. Smoothest action I have every used. And Ive had my hands on Surgeons, Stiller, Templars, Kelblys, Badger, Sakos, Savage, Remington...the list goes on and on [/quote]

Damnit! I love to hear a loud voice of experience speak out in frustration! Good info gets passed that way. Ty

 

[Edds]

Re: Which custom Action?

The following quote is from the Surgeon website. These features don't get discussed very often. Do they have no value?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> In the middle of the left bolt raceway is an anti-jam rail, the purpose of this rail is to prevent a round from lodging in the raceway when single loading the rifle through the ejection/loading port.

The raceway on the right hand side has an anti-bind rail just below the ejection/loading port, the purpose of this rail is to insure smooth bolt operation as the locking lug passes through the loading port.</div></div>

 

[Hondo64d]

Re: Which custom Action?

I have a Stiller Predator, which I am extremely happy with.

Haven't seen one yet, but the Shilen actions look very interesting too. The best combination of both Remington and Savage features.

John

 

[Swift]

Re: Which custom Action?

For the best <span style="text-decoration: line-through">custom</span> action, AI or TRG

 

[MWDG3]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Id go with a BAT. Smoothest action I have every used.</div></div>

You cannot fully appreciate those words until you cycle one yourself.

 

[jakel]

Re: Which custom Action?

I've had Surgeons and Stillers. Great guns. I've had blueprinted 700s that shot great but were a little rough around the edges in comparison. I've always thought the old Sako L61Rs and L579s were neat actions to build light hunting rifles. However, the (only 1) Nesika I had was by far the nicest I've owned.

 

[leadbullet]

Re: Which custom Action?

Barnard, you can do it all with a barnard, BR, F class, High power, tactical matches, hunt etc
thay come with a fantastic trigger, not too expensive compared to others and are butter smooth.
check them out.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BigJoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">they are all good

honestly its pretty hard to beat a r700 with PTG bolt but i really don't want to start that damn debate again</div></div>


i'm with joe.

personally, i like a trued 700 with nf or badger 20 base, ptg smooth bolt with 700 extractor and a ptg recoil lug.

i don't need or want a fluted bolt. i don't need a side bolt release. a separate scope base or separate recoil lug has never cost me a match. my 700 with .007" bolt body to receiver bore clearance still shoots as good as any tac rifle i have seen.


now if i <span style="font-style: italic">had</span> to purchase a "custom" action, features i'd bee looking at to improve on what i see as potential "week" spots are a monolithic bolt, monolithic receiver/base/lug. the surgeon 591 is probably what i'd be leaning toward if i just had to be one of the cool kids.

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lofty</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggie410</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bighorn actions are great. My shooting buddy has one. The badger are fantastic actions IF they are sent to George @ GAP to be "fixed". </div></div>

Care to elaborate? </div></div>

I'm also interested in getting some info on this. What is it that needs "fixing"? </div></div>

George says the bolt tolerances are a bit tight for a match gun subjected to dirt and debris. He also feels the metal is a tad soft.

He turns a section of the bolt knob down by a few thou to allow debris to clear so it doesn't bind. Then he sends it off for meloniting so the metal doesn't gall when you get sand or stuff in the action. </div></div>

Yep, Lofty has it. The difference after they have been hardened and the center of the bolt has been turned down just a few thousandths is night and day. The action is much smoother and the bolt lift is lighter. Absolutely my favorite action.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hondo64d</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Stiller Predator, which I am extremely happy with.

Haven't seen one yet, but the Shilen actions look very interesting too. The best combination of both Remington and Savage features.

John </div></div>

I am 99% certain a Shilen action is a re-branded Stiller action stamped "Shilen."

 

[RedGoat]

Re: Which custom Action?

I don't see myself building another custom rifle now that I have a DTA, but if I did I would build it around a Bighorn.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Re: Which custom Action?

Bighorn all the way. Have shot Defiance and Surgeon, Bighorn is smoother and has more features that make it more unique from the standard 700 than the other two mentioned. The way AJ has them priced right now, I believe it's also a better value. The Bighorns also have a more consistent CBS than any other action I've ever shot. There's a lot to like.

-SBS

 

[Joebill]

Re: Which custom Action?

will be using a surgeon 591 on my next build

 

[Down South]

Re: Which custom Action?

I agree with Jig Stick, i've heard over and over don't go with a Bat cause its too tight etc. I have a Bat, Surgeon, Remington, etc. and my next build will be with another Bat. They aint cheap but you won't regret building on one. Smoothest action i've ever seen/had, lock up like a bank vault, and never had a glitch with em. I have the VR with integral rail and lug.

 

[HoytFlinger]

Re: Which custom Action?

Bat

 

[Wheres-Waldo]

Re: Which custom Action?

I've had my Badger for quite a while now and have yet to have it gum up in dirty conditions... All stock except for a David Tubb spring, IonBonding (which is mostly worn off the bolt body) and polished cam at the back of the bolt.

I don't shoot comp after comp with it, but its been used up and I have no complaints

 

[wchartz]

Re: Which custom Action?

I have a Bighorn tactical and a Stiller TAC 30. Both are quality actions but the Bighorn is much smoother and faster to operate. It is also very reasonably priced.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Which custom Action?

There are good arguments for going with Defiance Machine, Surgeon, and Stiller. Defiance Machine will make you an action which is more custom one of a kind. Stiller makes stuff that the other two don't, and Surgeon arguable has the best quality.

 

[RogueHk]

Re: Which custom Action?

I have a Defiance Machine and love it! It's with Robert Gradous right now.. 338 Norma Mag

 

[Big Dog Steel]

Re: Which custom Action?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical_Tom</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are good arguments for going with Defiance Machine, Surgeon, and Stiller. Defiance Machine will make you an action which is more custom one of a kind. Stiller makes stuff that the other two don't, and Surgeon arguable has the best quality.

</div></div>

Of the actions you listed how can you say surgeon has the best quality? I'm not at all saying surgeon is not a quality action, but I've seen alot of perfect actions from defiance (Templar) and plenty of AJ's Bighorns floating around that seem pretty quality to me.

 

[skeetlee]

Re: Which custom Action?

Out of curiosity what makes Surgeon the best quality? Is it there design your speaking of?
There is one action that most never think of that would compare to the very best of them. That action is a Kelbly Atlas. I know of a couple well know smiths who check custom actions just to see how true they really are. The Kelbly was dead Nutz, some of the others were not. Some ight say the bolt is to tight on a Kelbly, but thats none sence. Kelbly will make the bolt with however much clearance you want. Just another option. Lee

 

[longrange223]

Re: Which custom Action?

just saw a build this weekend on the kelbly atlas & man was it sweet,all my benchrest guns are pandas but the atlas makes a nice tactical build!