I've never been a big vintage/military surplus rifle guy, but a local shop has a few K 31's , (all in 7.5 swiss) in stock. Two have diopter sights on them Im sort of leaning towards, but other than that, what should I be looking at to decide which one is more "desirable?" One is a "K" diopter, the other is an "S" diopter, whats the difference? both are all numbers matching, but are there any makers marks I should look for or avoid?
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Which K31?
- Thread starter kmontang
- Start date
Look for a walnut stock. That will make it a WWII or older. The diopters are post production target rifles. Meaning they were modified to that configuration. Original K31's only have the tangent volley sight.
However, due to their high quality, Swiss diopter sights are highly sought after. The sights alone sometimes running three times as much as the rifle. They are very precise. So, it's a question of "historically accurate" or "super accurate".
What are these selling for, if I may ask?
However, due to their high quality, Swiss diopter sights are highly sought after. The sights alone sometimes running three times as much as the rifle. They are very precise. So, it's a question of "historically accurate" or "super accurate".
What are these selling for, if I may ask?
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Good general info site on the S-R and K31
http://www.swissrifles.com/
Look at 12 o'clock on the barrel shank... check to see if there is a circle with a little hammer inside the circle and a s/n that starts with a P....if one of 'em has those, THAT is the one you want.
http://www.swissrifles.com/
Look at 12 o'clock on the barrel shank... check to see if there is a circle with a little hammer inside the circle and a s/n that starts with a P....if one of 'em has those, THAT is the one you want.
I had a Hammerli K31F target rifle that shot RUAG G11 well inside 1 MOA. This from an unbedded factory (OK, so it was a Hammerli) rifle. That thing fetched $2500 at auction.
So, did Hammerli build these from the ground up? Or, did they true up and make a more precise instrument out of an already precise instrument?
Hammerli built the rifles for a Swiss gov't contract for target/sniper rifles. The Swiss ended up not buying as many as originally planned so they went out to the open market. The receiver was marked "Hammerli" and serial # was FK043. Dad bought it for $100 in July 1959 from Martin Retting in CA.
The one I had:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.rockislandauction.com\/html\/dev_cdn\/1022\/3307.jpg?mt=582503ab"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.rockislandauction.com\/html\/dev_cdn\/1022\/3307-1.jpg?mt=582503aa"}[/IMG2]
Not mine, but marked the same:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/pNRx2tw.jpg"}[/IMG2]
The one I had:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.rockislandauction.com\/html\/dev_cdn\/1022\/3307.jpg?mt=582503ab"}[/IMG2]
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/www.rockislandauction.com\/html\/dev_cdn\/1022\/3307-1.jpg?mt=582503aa"}[/IMG2]
Not mine, but marked the same:
[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/i.imgur.com\/pNRx2tw.jpg"}[/IMG2]
They were micrometer rear with a 6-position variable aperture disc. The front was a globe with inserts. Both were not labeled as far as I recall, but they seemed very similar to the sight picture looking thru a set of Redfield Olympics.
What are these selling for, if I may ask?[/QUOTE]
The others sold over the weekend, but this is still available
https://www.deguns.net/product-p/cons8553.htm
The others sold over the weekend, but this is still available
https://www.deguns.net/product-p/cons8553.htm
The walnut stocks are a bit nicer than the beachwood in my opinion; I think the transition date for the wood was 1946 (?).
That may be a heck of a price depending on the sights, but my knowledge on the diopters is almost zero; all I know is the diopters are outrageously expensive when I come across them most of the time.
Between my two K31s (both walnut, ones a 39 and the other is a 43) I know I could cover my butt at $500 a piece for them and be even. They are both great shooting rifles and incredibly accurate, but pack a good punch to the shoulder.
Ironically, I just called those guys yesterday to see if they had any used Rem 700s on the floor for a build. Were rather nice over the phone.
That may be a heck of a price depending on the sights, but my knowledge on the diopters is almost zero; all I know is the diopters are outrageously expensive when I come across them most of the time.
Between my two K31s (both walnut, ones a 39 and the other is a 43) I know I could cover my butt at $500 a piece for them and be even. They are both great shooting rifles and incredibly accurate, but pack a good punch to the shoulder.
Ironically, I just called those guys yesterday to see if they had any used Rem 700s on the floor for a build. Were rather nice over the phone.
IMO, that is not a bad price for that rifle, if it is what all I think it is. First, these are now selling in the $200-$300 range. Next, the wood appears to be walnut that's another $100 bare minimum. You said very nice condition. Right now that is bringing another $100. The diopter sights if Swiss of any kind did are bringing yet another $200 minimum. And, if the right kind, $400-$1k depending on condition.
At the bare minimum, you'd be even on the rifle. Any bonus items and you are ahead.
At the bare minimum, you'd be even on the rifle. Any bonus items and you are ahead.
I've had the exact same Hammerli K31for about 35 years. Never got around to shooting it. SN FK25X IIRC
Do yourself a favor and put some rounds thru it. I may even have some GP11 if you want it.
Makes me cringe to see the word "had". I hope you still have it samnev. They are awesome to shoot as the military rifle. And, the precision civilian versions are even better.
Didn't express myself correctly. Still have the K31 Hammerli. But thinking about selling it if I can find out what they honestly sell for. Ive seen prices all over the place.
Like I said, mine hammered at $2500, which means I got $1875 after the auction commission.
Interesting side note, I was putzing around on youtube and came across some guy's list of the five oldest cartridges still in use today.
Anyhow he stated the "GP-11" as the youngest of the five oldest dating back to 1911. The rest in order were the .45 ACP (1911), the 9mm Parabellum (1908), the 30-06 (1906), and the 7.62X54R (1891).
True, GP-11 dates back to 1911 as it's name implies, but the 7.5X55 Swiss, in one form or another, (GP11 is one form) dates back to 1889.
Hard to imagine a cartridge 128 years old still in active use today The Swiss use it in a GP/medium machine gun.
Speaking of which, the .50 Cal will be 95 this year.
Anyhow he stated the "GP-11" as the youngest of the five oldest dating back to 1911. The rest in order were the .45 ACP (1911), the 9mm Parabellum (1908), the 30-06 (1906), and the 7.62X54R (1891).
True, GP-11 dates back to 1911 as it's name implies, but the 7.5X55 Swiss, in one form or another, (GP11 is one form) dates back to 1889.
Hard to imagine a cartridge 128 years old still in active use today The Swiss use it in a GP/medium machine gun.
Speaking of which, the .50 Cal will be 95 this year.
Yes. Sorry, I didn't elaborate, military cartridges. The 30-06 makes the list barely. It's still in the inventory, but not by much if even a tenth of a percentage point.
Awesome rifle. Mine is crazy accurate at 300 yards with GP11 for a Milsurp. Have shot it and hit IPSC target at 1,000 (took a bit) with GP11. Not saying that's ideal situation for rifle/ammo but shot twice as far with accuracy as my M1 Garand with surplus ammo. Love M1 Garand too but 500 yards is about all it has for accuracy with surplus. Handloads a different story.
Can't go wrong with K31. Great rifle.
Can't go wrong with K31. Great rifle.
The "P" mark in front of or near the serial number simply indicate that the weapon was officially passed from army property into Private property of the soldier upon the end of military service; this is not an indicator of quality or manufacturer.
Haemmerli (hammer in a circle) barrels tend to be slightly more precise than Waffenfabrik ("W+F"), but all depends on the barrel wear. Both Bern Waffenfabrik and Haemmerli were producing barrels for military and civilian series. Military and civilian batches do not have any noticeable difference in precision or manufacturing quality. For Waffenfabrik barrels the best precision is usually obtained with gauging of 7.53±0.01 uniform all along the riflings. 7.55 or above is a definite no go – the barrel is washed out (note: this is only valid for W+F K31s; modern 300m competition rigs usually have a slightly larger gauge, and 7.55 is perfectly ok). Uniformity is also the key – the gauge should have the same resistance all the way through.
Also, check the manufacturing dates here:
http://www.cruffler.com/ProductionDataPages/SwissMilitaryRifles/schmidt_rubin.html
The receiver steel hardening process was changed and improved from 1936; earlier batches may have solidity problems.
For wartime batches (1942-1945) look for "+CN" marking on the bolt carrier or locking lug indicating Chromium Nickel steel. Due to steel supply shortages, for limited production batches lower grade vanadium or molybdenum steels (+AV or +CM / +MO) were used.
Also, plenty of info here:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...rs-please-read-this-before-postin-t13719.html
This is important:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...geboard/k31-accident-safety-checks-t3498.html
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
p.
Haemmerli (hammer in a circle) barrels tend to be slightly more precise than Waffenfabrik ("W+F"), but all depends on the barrel wear. Both Bern Waffenfabrik and Haemmerli were producing barrels for military and civilian series. Military and civilian batches do not have any noticeable difference in precision or manufacturing quality. For Waffenfabrik barrels the best precision is usually obtained with gauging of 7.53±0.01 uniform all along the riflings. 7.55 or above is a definite no go – the barrel is washed out (note: this is only valid for W+F K31s; modern 300m competition rigs usually have a slightly larger gauge, and 7.55 is perfectly ok). Uniformity is also the key – the gauge should have the same resistance all the way through.
Also, check the manufacturing dates here:
http://www.cruffler.com/ProductionDataPages/SwissMilitaryRifles/schmidt_rubin.html
The receiver steel hardening process was changed and improved from 1936; earlier batches may have solidity problems.
For wartime batches (1942-1945) look for "+CN" marking on the bolt carrier or locking lug indicating Chromium Nickel steel. Due to steel supply shortages, for limited production batches lower grade vanadium or molybdenum steels (+AV or +CM / +MO) were used.
Also, plenty of info here:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...rs-please-read-this-before-postin-t13719.html
This is important:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/the...geboard/k31-accident-safety-checks-t3498.html
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
p.
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