Which Kestrel?

[vonbalkenbush]

Which Kestrel will give everything I need to determine inputs for ballistic software?

I think I need these inputs:

1. Altitude
2. Temperature
3. Barometric Pressure
4. Relative Humidity

I think these are all the inputs one needs to determine their DA for a ballistic solution. My question is which Kestrel will give me all of these?

-SBS

 

[Nimzoblanca]

Re: Which Kestrel?

3500, 4000 and 4500 models give all the above. In addition, the 4000 and 4500 give density altitude. IMHO, spend the extra bucks and get the 4500 or 4500NV. Then you're set for a loooooong time.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I have the 3500, and it doesn't give me relative humidity. Either that or I just don't know how to find it.

 

[Nimzoblanca]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SagebrushShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the 3500, and it doesn't give me relative humidity. Either that or I just don't know how to find it. </div></div>
Hmmm, I'm looking at the Kestrel product catalog and it says the 3500 gives relative humidity. So it must be in there somewhere (or their product manual is wrong).

 

[Big_Bullseye]

Re: Which Kestrel?

What about the one with Horus A-trag?

Is that a good combination?

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Big_Bullseye</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What about the one with Horus A-trag?

Is that a good combination?</div></div>

If you actually need it. Do you not currently have any "free" ballistic software on your phone or PC? Just don't see the need to pay for stuff you already have.

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Re: Which Kestrel?

+1 for the 4500. Serf the net. I was able to pick one up nib last Christmas for $200. Put the leg work in and I bet you can find a good deal.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Re: Which Kestrel?

Mines an older 2500, thought is was a 3500. Thanks for the input fellas.

-SBS

 

[Unknown]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I thought about the NV model, but realized that some red colored plastic could easily cover up the display and be far cheaper. Besides, when reviewing how may times I would have needed a red display on my Kestrel over the past couple of years, I decided I didn't even need the red plastic...

I found barely used 4500 on Craigs list for $125, and of course snapped it up as fast as possible.

 

[patriotunknown]

Re: Which Kestrel?

i have been using the 4500nv for a bit. i only got the nv version because it was the only one available. i dont think it is worth the extra bucks though. which iphone ballistic apps do yall use them/ have had the best luck with?

 

[Max Owner]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I bought a 4500 with Blue Tooth. Need to find the time to read the manual.

Also use Isnipe on my Iphone. Love the program. Bought Bullet Flight and never used it. Seems too complicated

 

[Lindy]

Re: Which Kestrel?

A 4000 or above is necessary to have one which computes density altitude.

For shooting purposes, ignore the altitude function in a Kestrel. You don't need it for a ballistic program, and for it to be accurate, you must know the sea-level-referenced barometric pressure from a source other than the Kestrel. If you need to know the altitude for some other reason, get a GPS.

You may find this article useful: Barometric Pressure and Ballistic Software

 

[matt2143]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I use a 4500 NV and use it for referencing density altitude only. The back light is perfect and the unit great for learning to gauge wind speed. I use an IPOD with various ballistic programs.

 

[Cologgi]

Re: Which Kestrel?

Get the 4500, It's like Steve at Triad says "Buy once, cry once"

 

[Northland]

Re: Which Kestrel?

We use the 3500 at work and it does what we need. But no reason not to up grade to the 4500 or whatever. Get the right one the first time.

 

[Ghost Bullet]

Re: Which Kestrel?

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I just bought Kestrel Meter 4500 Weather Meter


The Kestrel 4500 Pocket Weather Tracker is Kestrel's flagship meter. Capable of monitoring and reporting an exhaustive list of environmental parameters – from temperature to barometric pressure, dewpoint, wind chill, and more**, the Kestrel 4500 is the most feature-rich pocket weather meter in the entire Kestrel catalog. And now, the Kestrel 4500, as well as the entire Kestrel 4000 series, is available with Bluetooth Technology, allowing you to communicate wirelessly and transmit and log your data automatically.


In addition to the Kestrel 4000's extensive list of capabilities, the Kestrel 4500 has these distinct monitoring functions:
•Digital Compass
•Wind Direction
•Crosswind
•Headwind / Tailwind


These added features make the 4500 the Kestrel Meter of choice for military professionals, HAZMAT teams, and flight crews. Like all the pocket weather meters in the Kestrel 4000 series, the Kestrel 4500 is capable of storing and charting up to 1400 data points for later analysis.


If you select the Bluetooth model, your meter includes custom communication software designed to quickly and easily configure your data transmission frequency, download logged data, graph data and transfer data to other applications. It is not longer to purchase an interface separately, the new Kestrel Meters with Bluetooth include the software necessary to communicate wirelessly at a range of up to 30-feet.


For military professionals, the Olive Drab NV version of the Kestrel 4500 features a night-vision preserving backlight. Backlight incorporates optical filter to reduce overall brightness and minimize blue and green spectrum light to preserve night vision. (Note: This backlight appears soft greyish pink, not "red", and is still in the visible spectrum, so is not compatible with night-vision equipment.)


For military professionals, the Olive Drab NV version of the Kestrel 4500 is equipped with a red night vision backlight. The backlight appears as a subdued, almost white-pink hue. This is not an issue with the meter - this is how the light is designed for optimal performance in low-light conditions.


Weekend shooters and military snipers alike have been calling for a Kestrel Meter with crosswind calculation for years — and the Kestrel 4500 meets that demand completely. The elite Kestrel 4500 has the most complete list of features in the entire Kestrel Meter family, with the only absent elements being the airflow and humidity ratio measurements available with the Kestrel 4200 Air Flow Tracker.



The Kestrel Meter 4500 Weather Meter measures/features
•Heading (true & magnetic)
•Wind direction
•Crosswind
•Headwind/tailwind
•Altitude
•Pressure trend
•Barometric pressure
•Wet bulb temperature
•Relative humidity in %
•Heat stress index
•Dewpoint

•Wet bulb temperature

•Density altitude

•Wind chill

•Air, water, and snow temperature °F or °C

•Current, average, and maximum air velocity

•Waterproof and floats

•Time and date

•Easy- to-read backlit display

•Data Logger (automatic and manual)

•Customizable data storage - 2900 data points

•Minimum, Maximum and Average values

•Multi-Function 3-line display

•Humidity sensor can be recalibrated in the field with our Relative Humidity Calibration Kit.

•Exterior temperature, humidity, and pressure sensors for fast and accurate readings

•Customize screens to display user-selected measurements

•Graph and recall trends

•User-replaceable impeller

•Flip-top impeller cover allows use of other functions while protecting the impeller

•Data charting

•Upload to a computer (with optional interface)

•Five languages (English, French, Spanish, German, and Italian)

•US Patent Nos. 5,783,753 and 5,939,645 and 6,257,074

•Assembled in the USA

 

[Chris@InterstateGuns]

Re: Which Kestrel?

4500

 

[dt00083]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I would go with no less than a 4000, I mainly use it for the density altitude.

 

[rhantz]

Re: Which Kestrel?

Definitely get the 4500.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Which Kestrel?

Kestrel 4500 bluetooth without Horus -- I have heard horror stories .. you could better spend your money on Loadbase 3 or Field Firing solutions for a ballistic computer solution.

-Kevin

 

[ctressler]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dt00083</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would go with no less than a 4000, I mainly use it for the density altitude. </div></div>

+1

 

[Max Owner]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I have a 4500 NV with Bluetooth.

Apple stuff is not compatible at this time with Kestrel.

 

[NOMAD]

Re: Which Kestrel?

We have them if you need them. We sell them at lowest prices allowed!

 

[jamesbern]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I just ordered a 4000 for $193 on Amazon. Figured it would give me everything I needed. The price gap between the 4000 and 4500 was too much for me to do at this time.

 

[Clark]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I have a kestrel 1000.

I am having a hard time getting within 6" at 600 yards with a cold bore, with certainty, with my 7mmRemMag. I can only do it half the time. I have been practicing and practicing. The rear bag on the sling in 2011 helped.

I can do it every time at 500 yards. The deer or antelope is as good as dead.

If anyone can tell me how I would gain extra sure kill range, with upgrading my Kelstrel, I would like it explained to me.

 

[GTGunner]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have them if you need them. We sell them at lowest prices allowed! </div></div>

Nomad: I have seen the the 4500NV with bluetooth for about $345 on Amazon with free shipping.....will you match or beat that price?

 

[texas_vet00]

Re: Which Kestrel?

@Max Owner

No Apple/Kestrel? Is there an Apple/???? that works together?

 

[louboyd]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kestrel 4500 bluetooth without Horus -- I have heard horror stories .. you could better spend your money on Loadbase 3 or Field Firing solutions for a ballistic computer solution. -Kevin</div></div>

I have a 4500NV/HORUS/Bluetooth. I don't know what horror stories you've heard. Mine's ISS: 4.16 and works fine. It has no problems that any hand held wind meter doesn't have. It doesn't eliminate the need to dope downrange wind deflection, but no commercial wind meter I know of does. It's main advantage is that you don't have to manually transfer wind and air density data between separate units. It's also more compact and easier to handle than having two units. A laser rangefinder is still needed though the atrag software has built in stadia reticle calculations for determining range and target velocity.

Maybe some manufacturer will put the wind, air density, rangefinder, inclinometer, and computer all in one small unit.
Until then I recommend the 4500NV/Horus. The bluetooth option is handy for entering gun and bullet data from a PC and can log weather data in the non-HORUS mode, but is of no use when shooting.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: Which Kestrel?

The stories are support based. Kestrel does not support the ballistic software and Hours does not return calls. I gave up and sold it. Went with the 4500nvbt with a nomad 900L PDA running field firing solutions.

Hey if they fixed the darn thing then it is a handy unit. When I had mine it was very inconsistent. I think there were a few threads about it, but I would have to look.

Either way good luck

 

[Max Owner]

Re: Which Kestrel?

Android based stuff is compatible with Kestrel.

If this is what you are talking about?

 

[mirage98]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Kevlars</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kestrel 4500 bluetooth without Horus -- I have heard horror stories .. you could better spend your money on Loadbase 3 or Field Firing solutions for a ballistic computer solution. -Kevin</div></div>

I have a 4500NV/HORUS/Bluetooth. I don't know what horror stories you've heard. Mine's ISS: 4.16 and works fine. It has no problems that any hand held wind meter doesn't have. It doesn't eliminate the need to dope downrange wind deflection, but no commercial wind meter I know of does. It's main advantage is that you don't have to manually transfer wind and air density data between separate units. It's also more compact and easier to handle than having two units. A laser rangefinder is still needed though the atrag software has built in stadia reticle calculations for determining range and target velocity.

Maybe some manufacturer will put the wind, air density, rangefinder, inclinometer, and computer all in one small unit.
Until then I recommend the 4500NV/Horus. The bluetooth option is handy for entering gun and bullet data from a PC and can log weather data in the non-HORUS mode, but is of no use when shooting.


</div></div>
+1

 

[MSTN]

Re: Which Kestrel?

I recently took the plunge and ordered a Kestrel 4500 with the Horus ATRAG from Triad. I say keep the money in the community.

This is no iPhone!

I think the Horus directions were much better written than the ones for the Kestrel. But, I did attend Alabama public schools, and join the USMC, so maybe I'm just a slow learner.

I look forward to comparing this device with the "Ballistic" app in my iPhone at the range.

Good shooting,

Wes

 

[louboyd]

Re: Which Kestrel?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I recently took the plunge and ordered a Kestrel 4500 with the Horus ATRAG from Triad. I say keep the money in the community.
This is no iPhone!
I think the Horus directions were much better written than the ones for the Kestrel. But, I did attend Alabama public schools, and join the USMC, so maybe I'm just a slow learner.
I look forward to comparing this device with the "Ballistic" app in my iPhone at the range.
Good shooting,
Wes</div></div>
I'm not sure if "this is no IPhone" is supposed to be good or bad. There is one major difference in using the kestrel for ballistics calculations vs using an I phone or PDA. That is that the Kestrel not only measures wind speed but also the azimuth the meter's pointed when a reading is taken. There are four important azimuths. Those are:
magnetic north (kestrel back facing magnetic north)
true north (kestrel back facing true north)
wind (kestrel back facing into the wind)
target (kestrel back facing toward the target)
The kestrel should be calibrated with the magnetic offset before use so the azimuths are relative to true north when displayed or used in ballistic calculations.
The calibration procedure is in the Weather Tracker manual, not the Horus manual. If it's not done right the calculated wind deflections will be wrong. As with any hand held wind meter they may still be wrong if wind downrange isn't the same as at the location it's measured.

I don't know if the Iphone or PDA software worries about magnetic north, but it's necessary for the Kestrel unless you use manual entry for it's wind and target azimuth which you can do if you want. The the magnetic declination angle can be large. Where I live in Arizona it's +11.5 Degrees. Make sure your 4500 reads 0 degrees when it's back is facing true north after it's initial set up or the wind readings and wind deflections will be wrong. A magnetized rifle or other local magnetic fields can also make the kestrel's azimuth readings wrong. In that case estimate the angles and enter them manually.
Here's the magnetic offset map of the US. It changes a little from year to year:

 

[threetrees]

Re: Which Kestrel?

assuming you only want your kestrel as means to measure the potential effects that the air (drift, friction, etc) might have on your bullet ... how does the magnetic field influence the wind/pressure/humidity etc?

while it is nice that the kestrel also serves a compass, i'd say it's not its main application.

 

[louboyd]

Re: Which Kestrel?

The reason the compass is desirable is so the Kestrel can measure the relative direction of the wind and the direction of fire to the target and and use the information without manual entry. If you use a PDA or IPod and can estimate the angle between the target direction and the wind direction, true or magnetic north aren't used in the ballistic solution.

The Horus/Kestrel software can remember the azimuth and distance for up to five targets so only a wind reading is needed before a shot. So using the earths' magnetic field as a reference is necessary for that feature.

What measurements doesn't the Kestrel 4500/Horus do to give a complete shooting solution?

It does not have a laser rangefinder to give target distance.
It does have a stadia reticle calculator but a separate laser rangefinder should be more accurate.

It does not have an inclinometer for up/down shooting angles.
Use a separate instrument or just estimate it.

It does not measure latitude for the Coriolis correction. Get that off of a map, GPS, or (usually) ignore it. The Coriolis calculation also requires true north which the Kestrel gives.

It's wind meter only gives the the wind vector at the point where it's located. It may require standing and holding the meter well above ground to obtain a reading representative of a wind that's uniform over the trajectory. It may not be practical to reach a point which is representative of even a uniform wind. If the wind is not uniform to the target the Kestrel does not know about it. If you can dope wind you can use your own wind deflection estimate instead of the Kestrel's solution. I don't know of any commercial instrument which does any better. Using a spotter round works well but only if you can see the bullet's vapor trail near the target or the bullet's point of impact.

 

[threetrees]

Re: Which Kestrel?

no critisism, just trying to understand things.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In order to display the crosswind, simply point the Kestrel down the runway or target and set the reference heading. Then hold the 4500 into the wind and it automatically calculates the crosswind with respect to the reference heading.
</div></div>

that's for a single target and easy.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lou Boyd</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Horus/Kestrel software can remember the azimuth and distance for up to five targets so only a wind reading is needed before a shot. So using the earths' magnetic field as a reference is necessary for that feature.
</div></div>

While the programming might require this, i would disagree in general. You _could_ (yes, a suggestion, not what kestrel/softwar/whatever requires) take any totally offset compass. point at target 1, target 2 and target 3 and finally at the wind. All you need is the _relative_ angle between all of them - also a 'wrong' compass can do that. No need for a 'absolute' reference. You can also use this 'no absolute north' procedure that doesn't require a compass at all. only some agreed on angle-unit to calculate projections: target1 is 10 (some angle unit) west of that summit, target2 is 20 (some angle unit) east of that summit, wind is coming in 40 (angleunit) west of the summit. caculate relative angles. apply maths. done.

i wonder whether the software doesn't do relative angles anyway. might be interesting to give it a try. measure everything with a 'wrong north', and, under same conditions, redo the calculation with a corrected north. if the software uses relative angles, then it should not really matter.

 

[louboyd]

Re: Which Kestrel?

You're correct that most of the ballistic calculations (except Coriolis) only need the relative direction of fire to wind angle so magnetic declination or true north should make no difference. However the only sensor in the Kestrel which can measure azimuth is it's 2D compass. Any internal azimuth readings are relative to magnetic north but for human readability and consistency all azimuth values displayed or entered on the Kestrel/Horus are made relative to true north. (except in the compass calbration mode). Azimuth can be entered or displayed as 0-360 degrees clockwise or 12oc to 12oc format relative to true north. Using degrees gives better precision but may be less intuitive.

That's the way Horus wrote the software. If you insist on using relative angles between the direction of fire and the wind direction I'd recommend you don't use the Kestrel/Horus system.