Which Nightforce ?? Hellllp

[carbonbased]

Re: Looking at the Sun
735 ATACR v. G3 Razor

View attachment 8487054

I took the sunshades & lens covers off both. In that state, I'd say no clear winner. It's definitely easier to induce flaring with the ATACR given its tighter eyebox, which makes it more difficult to use. On the flip side, the G3R lost far more resolution - I really never got a strong lens flare, but the image greyed out badly or kind of hazed over as the colors began to blend together.

Aiming points were at 100yds about waist height. I looked at fully lit short grass and shadowed tree trunks that were (#1) inline w/ LOS to sun, (#2) 5-10 degrees off left of LOS to sun, & (#3) completely perpendicular to my LOS w/ sun. #3 served as a baseline for image quality & I never really lost any resolution of fine details on either. This is a very unscientific test & I used all natural objects, which typically aren't the best for testing stuff like this.

A few other comments... the lens flares in the ATACR were very yellow/red and more defined/crisp, while those of the G3R were more white/blue and more indistinct.

Sun Altitude (standard time)

22deg (6:15pm)
Nothing

19deg (6:30pm)
ATACR - very small lens flaring on perimeter of scope, but only when you swim your head around while aiming at #2 trees. Otherwise, no real loss in optical quality.
G3R - no flaring, but getting more difficult to resolve details like tree bark at #1 and #2. The entire image began degrade slightly.

15deg (6:45pm)
735 ATACR - larger lens flairs, but still able to resolve details in shadowed area. Fine details on trees still fairly easy to resolve.
G3R - entire image fogged out badly when looking at #1 & #2, fine details are difficult or impossible to see unless directly lit. A 12” diameter tree at #2 took me a solid minute to locate/distinguish, even though I knew I was aiming at it. Pretty bad. To be clear, it was still very bright out, so this had nothing to do with loss of ambient light.

12 deg (7:00pm)
735 ATACR - also beginning to haze, probably same amount as G3R 20-30 minutes prior. Reminiscent of my low light test.
G3R - bad hazing, getting some large lens flares. More loss of resolution, not impressed at all.

<11deg (7:10pm)
Sun was blocked by pecan trees. Both scopes regained quite a bit of their ability to resolve details, although some slight blending of colors, loss of resolution, etc.

Sunset 8:05, Dusk 8:30

hammered this out kind of fast, hopefully that all makes sense.

I wonder if one used the hoods how it would change the results. Maybe not much, at least if the hoods give appropriately the same protection.

So, the NF is better at handling flare, but it’s easier to induce it.

The G3 is worse at handling flare, but it’s harder to induce it.

Man, you’re not making this any easier lol.

I need to take my NX8 out and compare with the Razor G2. The NX8 beat my S&B 5-25 and really smoked the PST II 5-25 in very strange glare/mirage conditions this last winter. Pretty surprising.

Thx for doing this test. Funny that few have done such a thing. Sorta jives with this test (kinda maligned around these parts, but I found it interesting):
https://www.kineticsecuritysolutions.com/pages/optics-comparison

Separates the wheat from the chaff.

 

[R_A_W]

Yeah I may retest with the sunshades on. What's your use case for the scope?

I've been surprised how well NX8s handle mirage. The eyebox & 30mm tube are a no go for me, but I'm a diva

 

[carbonbased]

Yeah I may retest with the sunshades on. What's your use case for the scope?

I've been surprised how well NX8s handle mirage. The eyebox & 30mm tube are a no go for me, but I'm a diva

Use case: in summer, shooting west at pdogs into the setting sun.

NX8: yeah, I need to shoot that scope more. I am eyebox sensitive and my very recent copy of the 4-32 is easy to get behind. Not quite as nice as the Razor 4.5-27 G2, but similar to a PST II 5-25. I heard from @Glassaholic thet older copies can suck in eyebox and optical ways, but newer ones are gtg.

I don’t have opinions about tube size.

You know, my NX8 is sharp, real sharp. As in edge definition. Better in that regard than my Razor G2. I think its shallow DOF plays into that impression too, but it’s not just that.

And my G2 washes out in strong, direct, low sunlight like you describe in your G3/Atacr test. I wonder if the 7-35’s image “feels” similar to the NX8? (Edge def, flare, DOF, color, contrast, mirage handling, etc). I do know that my NX8 isn’t great in low light…haven’t tested the G2 in similar conditions.

And I haven’t tested the 4-32 in strong flare conditions. I gotta get going!

What I’m getting at is:
Is ATACR 7-35 to Vortex G3 like
NX8 4-32 to Vortex G2?

Side note: I really wish NF had locking turrets across the line. They should just pay for Leupold’s patent that they infringed with their 4-16.

Also: I wonder how ARDs would affect the image during strong glare/flare?

 

[Islas82]

I know you want NF but I would suggest you take a look at the new Leupold MK4HD 4-24. I got one recently and am impressed by the quality at the price point and it is very light. I had the NX8 4-32 before and honestly the MK4 is not very far from it optically speaking.

 

[R_A_W]

Use case: in summer, shooting west at pdogs into the setting sun.

Well I imagine the prairie dogs will be directly lit, so the G3R shouldn’t see the loss of contrast & resolution as if they were shaded. It does suck above 30x though. Also, G3R not as great at handling mirage.

The scope you really want is a ZCO 840 haha

 

[carbonbased]

Also, G3R not as great at handling mirage.

How’s ye olde NF 7-35 handle mirage in comparison? I don’t think I’ve read a comparo on that.

The scope you really want is a ZCO 840 haha

I dunno about that. That scope seems to have a bunch of sample variation (the 5-27, very little; the 4-20, essentially none). This is from ILya, not me.

I’m thinking more like a Tangent 7-35, ZCO 5-27, or a S&B 6-36 would be more of an ultimate scope for me.

 

[R_A_W]

I've only looked through 1 zco840 & it blew my mind

735 ATACR handles heavy mirage better than G3R, no question, especially @ high magnification

 

[carbonbased]

I've only looked through 1 zco840 & it blew my mind

735 ATACR handles heavy mirage better than G3R, no question, especially @ high magnification

Shoot, I forgot you already did a comparo here!

Which Nightforce ?? Hellllp

Ok so having SAC build me a custom 7PRC, I’m calling it a hunting rifle but will shoot steel more than anything. So I don’t want a large heavy scope like my ATACR 5-25 So I’m thinking NX8 2.5-20 Or the 4x32 I like the low of the 2.5 but the higher magnification of the 32. Haven’t looked...

www.snipershide.com

But I gotta admit your statement above is more definitive than that earlier review. I really appreciate the work you’ve put into these comparos. I find them more useful than most “wine tasting” sort of scope reviews. I like short and practical analyses.