Which rifle?

[Code7c]

I'm new to Sniper's Hide, so please bear with me. I'm in the beginning phase of selecting a bolt-action rifle for medium to long-range shooting. Something that would serve me well in a hunting scenario (nothing larger than elk or kudu), but would also be a good, solid competition gun for matches out to 1000 yards.
I'll be loading my own ammo and prefer to stick with common calibers. For that reason, I'm looking at .308 or .30-06 (although I am intrigued by the 6.5 Grendel. I just don't know much about it, yet).
I will be having a rifle built as a retirement present to myself, and have looked at GAP, Spartan, Fierce and Surgeon rifles, so far. I'm kind of leaning toward Surgeon.
Any suggestions on the best manufacturer for a rifle in the $2500 to $4000 range? I don't want to break the bank, but I do have a couple years to put this together to make sure I get what I want and/or what will serve my purposes best!

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[Roddd]

I'd buy a used (GAP, Surgeon, APA, AO, or any other sight sponsor) from the classifieds and look at the 6 or 6.5mm calibers, especially if you hand load. Nothing against a 308, I love mine, but there are better calibers out there for long range shooting.

 

[JoshcBoucher]

A while ago(2-3 weeks) I saw a McMillan on the Hide sale forum, at a good discount, and ready to go. Almost went for it. They are nice guns. Probably gone, by now. I can't look. I might "get the fever" A word of warning: you probably won't stop at 1, once ya get started. PS. Surgeon is a good way to lean.

 

[09jisaac]

I would look past the .308 if you want to hunt elk.

 

[Tact999]

I would look past the .308 if you want to hunt elk.

Curious why? Everything from 270, 30-06, 308 and an arrow have put down elk in Montana and Colorado for me over the years.

 

[Onewolf42]

#1) I assume the OP meant 6.5 Creedmoor and not 6.5 Grendel. I'm pretty sure a 6.5 Grendel is not the best LR Elk Hunter.

#2) Generally hunting rifles that need to be carried for long distances are fairly light but LR competition rifles that need to fire accurate strings of rounds at LR are relatively heavy.

#3) I like my 6.5 mm caliber rifles for LR competition.

 

[fx77]

Talk also with American Precision Arms Jered Joplin...

 

[usmc02xx]

just purchased/received everything for a new 6.5cm in a weeks time. got a barreled action from accurate ordnance ($1700) cut to my spec and ready in 5 days. Ordered an AICS from Mile High shooting for $700. Add Timney for $140 and all you need is glass. hard to beat for $2540. I cant say enough how happy i was with customer service or the rifle. Check out the site or email mark. They can get you squared away.

 

[Code7c]

No, I meant 6.5 Grendel. I read somewhere that it has a super flat trajectory and that's why I considered a rifle in that caliber. However, I don't think it would be of use for anything larger than deer sized game. And, I am interested in common calibers. I don't think the Grendel is popular enough to be cost effective for me to load.

Thanks for the input!

 

[flatland1]

When a shooter starts talking about a multi-purpose rifle, the word 'compromise' always comes to mind. Some compromises can be made without seriously diminishing the utility of a rifle built for multiple purposes, but weight is the biggie when it comes to trying to make a rifle useful for both LR competition & hunting.

I built myself a LR prone rifle for NRA LR HP several years ago, using a BAT 3LL action with 30" bbls in hvy Palma contour in both 6.5x55AI & 284 Win. It's a very fine rifle for its intended purpose, but weighs 15.25lbs with a Sightron SIII 8-32x56 scope - not a rifle you'd want hanging off your shoulder on a sling. OTOH, I just built a nice .30-'06 with a 26" bbl in sendero contour on a 700 LA in a McM A3-5 that weighs just over 13 lbs., including a Nikon 30mm tactical 4-16x50 mounted in steel TPS TSR rings and PTG DBM. I shot it at 600 last evening after shooting a 6x47 & 260 Imp 30*, both with TBAC brakes, and couldn't help but notice the extra recoil, but it's a hammer with S175MKs. It's possible to put together an accurate LR rifle lighter than these builds, but it's tough to do without going with a much lighter barrel contour.

Figure out what you really want, and spend some time browsing the classifieds here and maybe have a look on GunBroker - you might find a deal.

 

[09jisaac]

Curious why? Everything from 270, 30-06, 308 and an arrow have put down elk in Montana and Colorado for me over the years.

You took an elk with an arrow at medium to long range?

The .270 and the 30-06 both pack a whole lot more power than the .308. I would take either of them hunting elk at distance.

The .308 with many "hunting" bullets is losing a bunch of steam at "medium" ranges and lacks a lot of punch at "long range". Some of the match bullets, supposedly, do well at range though.

You don't want a cartridge that will do something, you want a cartridge that will do it well.

 

[Code7c]

Good advice! Thanks, Dennis!

 

[redneckbmxer24]

No, I meant 6.5 Grendel. I read somewhere that it has a super flat trajectory and that's why I considered a rifle in that caliber. However, I don't think it would be of use for anything larger than deer sized game. And, I am interested in common calibers. I don't think the Grendel is popular enough to be cost effective for me to load.

Thanks for the input!

For an AR15 the Grendel isn't a bad choice but for a standard short action bolt gun the creedmoor whoops it's ass. It's becoming a common caliber (much more so than Grendel) and with 140gr bullets it's perfectly suitable for elk sized game to 800 yards or so. The down side compared to 308 is barrel life.

When a shooter starts talking about a multi-purpose rifle, the word 'compromise' always comes to mind. Some compromises can be made without seriously diminishing the utility of a rifle built for multiple purposes, but weight is the biggie when it comes to trying to make a rifle useful for both LR competition & hunting.

This is 100% on the money. For the most part no one rifle is going to be perfect for both but they can be used for either or. I've shot pencil barrel rifles at LR though not at matches as the high round counts would heat the barrel too fast, and I've hunted with 20lbs rifles carrying them all day and it didn't bother me. I'm also not a body builder or close to it.

You took an elk with an arrow at medium to long range?

The .270 and the 30-06 both pack a whole lot more power than the .308. I would take either of them hunting elk at distance.

The .308 with many "hunting" bullets is losing a bunch of steam at "medium" ranges and lacks a lot of punch at "long range". Some of the match bullets, supposedly, do well at range though.

You don't want a cartridge that will do something, you want a cartridge that will do it well.

Please dude, people have dropped elk with a 22-250. I know a guy that goes to Colorado every year and every year he comes home with bull and a cow taken with a 243 with 105 Amax's. Most of those kills happen in the 500-800 yard range.

It's shot placement with any caliber and a 270 or 30-06 isn't going to do any better job than a 308. They are also basically in the same class energy wise so I don't even know why you're arguing it to begin with.

 

[09jisaac]

Please dude, people have dropped elk with a 22-250. I know a guy that goes to Colorado every year and every year he comes home with bull and a cow taken with a 243 with 105 Amax's. Most of those kills happen in the 500-800 yard range.

It's shot placement with any caliber and a 270 or 30-06 isn't going to do any better job than a 308. They are also basically in the same class energy wise so I don't even know why you're arguing it to begin with.

My late great uncle killed a black bear with a .410 with bird shot, that does not mean that it is the idea choice for that application?

Notice how every SINGLE round you mention has a whole lot flatter trajectory than the .308? They are all a whole lot more forgiving of a misjudged range.

Also, the .270 and the 30-06 have a lot more energy than the .308. I guess it just depends on how wide of a class you are sorting everything into.

Doesn't the .270, the .30-06, and the .243 have more energy at 800 yards than the .308?

At distance, energy is so much more important than at close range.

Lastly, a more experienced people can use tools for applications that novices shouldn't.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

T

My late great uncle killed a black bear with a .410 with bird shot, that does not mean that it is the idea choice for that application?

Notice how every SINGLE round you mention has a whole lot flatter trajectory than the .308? They are all a whole lot more forgiving of a misjudged range.

Also, the .270 and the 30-06 have a lot more energy than the .308. I guess it just depends on how wide of a class you are sorting everything into.

Doesn't the .270, the .30-06, and the .243 have more energy at 800 yards than the .308?

At distance, energy is so much more important than at close range.

Lastly, a more experienced people can use tools for applications that novices shouldn't.

You are absolutely clueless about ballistics. 270 and 30-06 isn't a whole lot flatter than 308 nor do they have more energy (well the 30-06 a little if you load). They are a wash. They are all in the same class, the only differences being the 308 is a short action round and the 308 and 30-06 has a much better selection of LR bullets. The only meaningful 27 cal bullets are a couple Bergers, none of which are anything to write home about.

 

[LRJammer]

It's shot placement with any caliber and a 270 or 30-06 isn't going to do any better job than a 308. They are also basically in the same class energy wise so I don't even know why you're arguing it to begin with.

Agreed. With the 308 will do anything the 06 and 270 will. Like any hunting application, proper bullet selection and placement are key. A 338 LM will not save your ass if you make a gut shot.

 

[flatland1]

If I were going into a rifle build with serious intentions of using it for both LR practical & hunting, I think I'd probably address the weight issue by going with a 6mm ~ 6.5mm round. It's fairly easy to use something like a Krieger #5 sptr contour with a SA 700 and wind up with a rifle weighing 11lbs. - I've got a 250 AI on a 700 SA in a B&C 1000 stock (M40-style) with Williams steel BDL-style BM, 26" #5 sptr, & Bushnell 30mm 4-16x50 6500 scope that weighs right at 11lbs. That's plenty of weight to make a rifle steady on a bipod and to mitigate the already mild recoil of the 250 AI, yet still not be totally obnoxious to carry. Do a build with like components in a 243, 6XC, 6x47, 6SLR, 260 Rem or Improved versions, and you'd be well equipped for shots out past 1000yds in competition. Not even going to get into game shooting at distance here, but you could do a lot worse than a good 260 with fine accuracy as a starting point.

With the above mentioned B&C stock, if you did decide that you wanted a heavier contour bbl down the road - like a Rem varmint - the stock's bbl channel is large enough to accommodate it with no issue. Or you could build a switch-bbl rifle from the get-go on the same stock by having a longer/heavier bbl fitted for LR shooting, and a lighter, shorter bbl done for hunting. For a little added expense, you'd have dealt with the hardest to solve problems of building a 'compromise' rifle.

 

[ColbyLang]

I too wanted to do both hunting and a bit of LR shooting. After discussion with Jered Joplin at APA I decided on a 280AI. It tips the scale at a little over 9 pounds with the optic. Remington 700 LA trued and blueprinted. Broughton SS Match 5C #5.5 Contour at 24". Its a hammer out to 800 yards and knocks down bambi every season