Which Rifle?

[LefteeGuy]

I'm considering the purchase of my first SHF Rifle. I've narrowed the options to an AR15 (probably a Colt 6920 or a S&W M&P), a MSAR (AUG clone), FS2000, or a PS90. I have a home defense Remington 12 gauge pump, but my wife is too petite to shoot it. I'm also left handed so I really appreciate ambi features. Frankly, I'm leaning towards the PS90 due to its extremely low recoil and muzzle rise, and the ambi features. The FS2000 is probably second due to the stronger caliber and ambi features, but I'm afraid my wife won't like the recoil or the extra weight. I like the MSAR but wonder about the muzzle rise and I'm not sure how quick or easy it is to switch out bolts. In any event I wouldn't describe it as a true ambi design. Last is the AR15 which most people would likely put as the first choice. My concerns are the recoil and the lack of any ambi features. I know I could get a Stag left handed AR, but then my wife has to deal with gas and casings flying past her face. I'm a real novice when it comes to these rifles. I've haven't shot any of them, except an AR and that was only once for about 10 rounds. The recoil doesn't bother me, but my wife would likely say otherwise.

I know many dog the 5.7 round for cost, lack of availability, and effectiveness, but during the recent ammo shortages, the FN was still on the shelves, the cost is comparable to high quality .223, and let just say we've unfortunately seen it can be effective.

So what am I missing in my thought process? I'm guessing there really isn't a wrong answer, just personal preferences, and maybe a "more correct" answer, but perhaps I'm wrong.

I appreciate any information or thoughts I should consider.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Which Rifle?

If you don't have any experience with military style rifles, and want one now for "SHTF", I would go with the AR-15. The reason is that you most likely (given your level of experience) don't know what you want, or what works for you. The AR15 allows you to mix, match, and configure it just the way you want it. With the MSAR, you are stuck with it the way it is. You also have parts and ammo commonality.

I bought an MSAR before I had an AR15 because it looked like a bonna-fide zombie slayer. After I got some trigger time, I decided to sell it and get an AR. You will hopefully get into shooting as more than just a social unrest insurance policy, and the AR15 will grow with you more than a specialized bullpup. It's also a TON cheaper! You could buy a standard for the wife and a lefty for you by the time you get an MSAR, a sighting system (it doesn't come with irons) and proprietary mags...

 

[Chiller]

Re: Which Rifle?

AR-15 and be done with it.

The 12....although I am larger than the average duck there are several platforms that will allow even children to shoot one well (have run the line at multiple scout camps). Too many people are intimidated by a shotgun and really sould not be.

 

[rpk762]

Re: Which Rifle?

I would also suggest getting the AR-15. I am a left hand shooter and the brass is never a concern to me. I do have a very old Colt SP1 with the original M-16 style upper. That SP1 will put casings into my right cheek. I also have an A1 style upper with a brass deflector built in and never had any problems.

The AR style rifles are very modular as stated before. A person can get a plain Jane a M4 clone or a C.A.R15 clone version very reasonable. The cost savings can be put to ammo and mags. I would suggest some kind of iron sights. The flat top version is very popular so adding optics is the in thing. Iron sights almost never fail. I would like to say never but I am sure someone out there will have a story where the sights on an A2 failed them. I have a second upper for my CAR that has optics on it and I do like it but when I am going to go out in the rain and other bad weather I always put on my iron sight upper. The knowledge base on the AR platform is so expansive that you can get good info almost anywhere. So any problems you may have will be easy to get resolved. Parts are also every easy to get. With just the most basic tools most can swap out almost every part on the rifle. As you shoot more you can tailor your rifle to your needs. The amount of stuff you can do to a AR-15 is amazing. Granted most of it is not truly needed for the average user beyond to make the rifle look cool. My C.A.R15 clone only has a bolt on rail on the bottom handguard and a vertical grip added. I added it because my wrist kind of hurts when I hold the standard stock for a long time. Now that I have it that grip is handy to use as a monopod or against a barrier to help support the rifle. I always have that AR with me. I have shoot more coyotes with that rifle than I have all my other firearms combined.

I have let all of my cousins shoot my C.A.R15 style AR and they love it. One of my cousins is only 5’ 2” and maybe 100lbs. I do not know but she is very skinny so whatever that makes her. She is deadly with that rifle. It does move her around a little but not so much that she does not like shooting it. Proper stance is the key to managing recoil. She can run that rifle as well as a lot of the Marines I knew when I was in. The standard A2 version is way too long for her.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Which Rifle?

If you want a really a cool lefty AR check out Lefty Noveske And, Noveske is expensive but top of the heap in my mind.

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

Am sure the Noveske is sweet, but for that price I can buy a nice plain jane AR15 and the PS90. Also, not sure how I feel about a dedicated left hand rifle. I like the concept of the rifle having equal utility to a left hander or a right hander. I'm not sure how effective the brass deflector is on the Colt 6920 (or any other AR for that matter). Of course all my pistols eject to the right and it doesn't bother me.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Which Rifle?

I am a lefty and have been shooting normal AR's for years and the brass deflector works as I have never been hit in the face. STAG also makes a lefty AR for cheaper than the Noveske.

 

[RollinCoal11]

Re: Which Rifle?

+10 for Noveske. If your on a budget Rock River is a great choice

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: Which Rifle?

Well, I have the PS90 and a couple AR-15s. They are totally different animals.

The PS90 is a really great weapon and I have no idea why people say it's expensive to shoot. I pay 21.00 per box of 50 for ammo but the ammo is pretty good quality either ballistic tipped or hollow point. So really it's a good deal for ammo.
Good points of the PS90
-can be shot in most indoor ranges
-very compact
-light recoil
- 50 rd mags
-fully ambidextous
-accurate and effective to 200 yards
-easy to clean (about twice as easy as an AR)

Bad points of the PS90
-its a gun nerd, gun
-The tritium sight that comes with it is a royle PITA to sight in and it takes some work to get accurate with that sight
-The brass is a Pain to reload and it's thin so you only get one or two reloads per case
-The magazines are pricey
-it's not nearly as versitle as the AR the PS90 is more of a specific use carbine, good for close quarters and up to 200 yards, at 50 yards it's surgical, at 100 it's 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups, at 200 yards it's good enough to hit prairie dogs, at 250 yards it's hard to hit anything except the earth.

Two good points for defense and the PS90.
-In theory the PS90 should be a very good home defense gun, enough penitration power with less worry about it going though the intened target and on into the neighbors house. The secret service uses it and not many people are more concerned about over penitration than them (airplane security, crowds, and so forth). Further more the amount of firepower is insane at 50 rounds per magazine. The weapon holds very tight in the body and would be hard to get leverage on it durring a scuffle. Those are pretty much theories. However...
-If you shoot someone with that thing in defense... Someones lawyer is going to have a field day with you. Even though it doesn't apply to you they will bring up the "armor piercing" principals the gun was designed for, The thing looks like it came out of a Sci-Fi superaction movie. 50 round capacity will make you look like you were trying to take over the world. There are only a couple guns chambered in the 5.7x28mm and they all look mean as hell... food for thought.

For the wife, women love this thing, low recoil but the balance and weight of the weapon are easier for most women to shoot. It's slightly less complicated too, less controls to teach.
I really like the PS90, it's insane fun and you'll love it but opt for the rail version and get an optic for it. Don't expect AR-15 type performance from it.

A basic AR will out perform the PS90 in accuracy, range, power, cost. I've been shooting ARs since 1993 and it's easily the superior weapon, although I wouldn't compair the two in the first place. A PS90 is better compaired to a 9mm carbine.

The FS 2000 and the MSAR are good weapons but why bother with them when you can get a a high quality AR15 for the same money, tried and true and at it's peak of evolution.

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sgt. 0811</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, I have the PS90 and a couple AR-15s. They are totally different animals.

The PS90 is a really great weapon and I have no idea why people say it's expensive to shoot. I pay 21.00 per box of 50 for ammo but the ammo is pretty good quality either ballistic tipped or hollow point. So really it's a good deal for ammo.
Good points of the PS90
-can be shot in most indoor ranges
-very compact
-light recoil
- 50 rd mags
-fully ambidextous
-accurate and effective to 200 yards
-easy to clean (about twice as easy as an AR)

Bad points of the PS90
-its a gun nerd, gun
-The tritium sight that comes with it is a royle PITA to sight in and it takes some work to get accurate with that sight
-The brass is a Pain to reload and it's thin so you only get one or two reloads per case
-The magazines are pricey
-it's not nearly as versitle as the AR the PS90 is more of a specific use carbine, good for close quarters and up to 200 yards, at 50 yards it's surgical, at 100 it's 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups, at 200 yards it's good enough to hit prairie dogs, at 250 yards it's hard to hit anything except the earth.

Two good points for defense and the PS90.
-In theory the PS90 should be a very good home defense gun, enough penitration power with less worry about it going though the intened target and on into the neighbors house. The secret service uses it and not many people are more concerned about over penitration than them (airplane security, crowds, and so forth). Further more the amount of firepower is insane at 50 rounds per magazine. The weapon holds very tight in the body and would be hard to get leverage on it durring a scuffle. Those are pretty much theories. However...
-If you shoot someone with that thing in defense... Someones lawyer is going to have a field day with you. Even though it doesn't apply to you they will bring up the "armor piercing" principals the gun was designed for, The thing looks like it came out of a Sci-Fi superaction movie. 50 round capacity will make you look like you were trying to take over the world. There are only a couple guns chambered in the 5.7x28mm and they all look mean as hell... food for thought.

For the wife, women love this thing, low recoil but the balance and weight of the weapon are easier for most women to shoot. It's slightly less complicated too, less controls to teach.
I really like the PS90, it's insane fun and you'll love it but opt for the rail version and get an optic for it. Don't expect AR-15 type performance from it.

A basic AR will out perform the PS90 in accuracy, range, power, cost. I've been shooting ARs since 1993 and it's easily the superior weapon, although I wouldn't compair the two in the first place. A PS90 is better compaired to a 9mm carbine.

The FS 2000 and the MSAR are good weapons but why bother with them when you can get a a high quality AR15 for the same money, tried and true and at it's peak of evolution. </div></div>

Wow, loads of good info, but I have a question. When you criticize the optics are you speaking only of the original white ring optics? I understand the USG black ring / secret service version are better, but I never tried them. Of course I've never tried any optics.

As for the MSAR and FS2000 the only thing I like about them as compared to an AR is that the FS2000 is truly ambi, and the MSAR is more readily converted to a left hand model. Otherwise, I wouldn't even consider them.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Re: Which Rifle?

handle the guns before you buy them.

i wanted to buy a bullpup until i fired a couple (an MSAR and a P90). if one of the non-AR's you're looking at fits you and your wife, go for it.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: Which Rifle?

Current bullpup designs leave a lot to be desired except possibly the RFB, but it is made by Kel-Tec and is a .308…

 

[justme]

Re: Which Rifle?

AR 15 for all the above reasons.
I have 2 Colts and have had ZERO problems

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Which Rifle?

I vote you buy two rocks. Once I stopped rolling my eyes over yet another Noob 'want to buy my first SHTF rifle' I figured we dont want you arming the zombies with anything nor supplying them with more ammo.

If your wife makes it through the Zombie gauntlet we will take her into our compound.

Good luck

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slothlacrosse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">handle the guns before you buy them.

i wanted to buy a bullpup until i fired a couple (an MSAR and a P90). if one of the non-AR's you're looking at fits you and your wife, go for it. </div></div>

+1 Shoot some guns before you buy one. I'll let anyone try any of my blasters if they ask, and I bet you can ask around and find someone that would love to take you to the range and get you some hands on time.

Evaluate how much you know about guns. If over half your knowledge comes from electronic sources (internet and video games) you might not want to spend a lot of your hard earned money on something you have no real world experience with. Those specialty rifles, while they are cool, each have a number of drawbacks, and you might decide after spending a ton of money that you wish you had gone with something a little more standard. That's my personal experience from having bought an MSAR, realizing that in real life it was a lot more cool than it was useful, and then selling it at a substantial loss to buy something more versatile.

There is a lot of experience on here telling you to get an AR15, stop worrying about what secret service is using, and just get a normal service rifle and shoot.

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote you buy two rocks. Once I stopped rolling my eyes over yet another Noob 'want to buy my first SHTF rifle' I figured we dont want you arming the zombies with anything nor supplying them with more ammo.

If your wife makes it through the Zombie gauntlet we will take her into our compound.

Good luck </div></div>

Geez you won't even recommend two sharp sticks, or maybe a sling shot for those rocks

Perhaps you're right, and I should forget the rifle. No doubt you will be pleased to defend me and my loved ones when the need arises. Please send me your contact information so I can reach you when trouble comes.

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slothlacrosse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">handle the guns before you buy them.

i wanted to buy a bullpup until i fired a couple (an MSAR and a P90). if one of the non-AR's you're looking at fits you and your wife, go for it. </div></div>

+1 Shoot some guns before you buy one. I'll let anyone try any of my blasters if they ask, and I bet you can ask around and find someone that would love to take you to the range and get you some hands on time.

Evaluate how much you know about guns. If over half your knowledge comes from electronic sources (internet and video games) you might not want to spend a lot of your hard earned money on something you have no real world experience with. Those specialty rifles, while they are cool, each have a number of drawbacks, and you might decide after spending a ton of money that you wish you had gone with something a little more standard. That's my personal experience from having bought an MSAR, realizing that in real life it was a lot more cool than it was useful, and then selling it at a substantial loss to buy something more versatile.

There is a lot of experience on here telling you to get an AR15, stop worrying about what secret service is using, and just get a normal service rifle and shoot. </div></div>

I hear you, and will likely hit the range and rent an AR and speak with some of my IDPA shooting friends, and see if they have anything I can borrow. I'm quite familiar with revolvers and pistols, but really don't know much about long guns.

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LefteeGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote you buy two rocks. Once I stopped rolling my eyes over yet another Noob 'want to buy my first SHTF rifle' I figured we dont want you arming the zombies with anything nor supplying them with more ammo.

If your wife makes it through the Zombie gauntlet we will take her into our compound.

Good luck </div></div>

Geez you won't even recommend two sharp sticks, or maybe a sling shot for those rocks

Perhaps you're right, and I should forget the rifle. No doubt you will be pleased to defend me and my loved ones when the need arises. Please send me your contact information so I can reach you when trouble comes. </div></div>

One last bit of advice... This site has some wonderfully experienced and talented shooters, and is a wealth of information. It is not AR15.com, or a site to talk about the best SMG for the zombie invasion. I catch the drift that you want to be told which space age bullpup will be the best first rifle for you and your wife. If you want the green light on that kind of purchase, at your experience level, then you might want to check out a different site. If you want good advice that will guide you to being a better shooter, then stick around and listen..

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LRS_Ranger</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LefteeGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I vote you buy two rocks. Once I stopped rolling my eyes over yet another Noob 'want to buy my first SHTF rifle' I figured we dont want you arming the zombies with anything nor supplying them with more ammo.

If your wife makes it through the Zombie gauntlet we will take her into our compound.

Good luck </div></div>

Geez you won't even recommend two sharp sticks, or maybe a sling shot for those rocks

Perhaps you're right, and I should forget the rifle. No doubt you will be pleased to defend me and my loved ones when the need arises. Please send me your contact information so I can reach you when trouble comes. </div></div>

One last bit of advice... This site has some wonderfully experienced and talented shooters, and is a wealth of information. It is not AR15.com, or a site to talk about the best SMG for the zombie invasion. I catch the drift that you want to be told which space age bullpup will be the best first rifle for you and your wife. If you want the green light on that kind of purchase, at your experience level, then you might want to check out a different site. If you want good advice that will guide you to being a better shooter, then stick around and listen.. </div></div>

I purposely came to this site to avoid the mall ninjas, and I'm struggling with the rifle decision. I shoot quite often, but not rifles. I'm not a hunter, I live in an urban setting, and I most often shoot indoors, so I'm really not sure how much time I'm going to spend shooting it versus it sitting in a safe awaiting some awful event that will likely never happen. I'm trying to get my wife to shoot more often, but it's been a challenge. I also realize that it makes more sense to buy something my wife and I might actually shoot, and become more proficient with. It's a tool, and like any tool it works better when you know how to handle it. I shot an IDPA event the other day and one of the stages involved a shotgun. I used my own shotgun, but it opened my eyes as to how awkward I felt shouldering the gun and reloading weapon. Definitely need some more range time with the shotgun. Not sure how the shotgun practice will translate to the AR or Bullpup platforms.

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: Which Rifle?

Don't overlook the Kalashnikov! A fine choice also....IMHO

 

[T2CH]

Re: Which Rifle?

My first black rifle was the OBR 5.56. Love the rifle. Wife loves the rifle. She shoots amazingly well for a person who does not shoot very much. The recoil is soft and doesn't bother her a bit.
I think you are looking into it to much with the ambi controls and the lefty vs. righty. A right handed rifle will resell faster later if you decide on something else. Go shoot the rifle and learn to use it effeciently no matter the orientation of the rifle. Get used to the brass flying in front of you or learn to shoot right handed. (Easier said than done I know but can be done with practice).
Start with a red dot optic or irons. Usually cheaper to start and work very well for SHTF situations. Shoot at 25 yds, then go to 50 yds and so on until you are comfortable with shooting.

Remember that in most SHTF scenarios you will probably be inside your home and it will be dark. The distance will be very short and time will not permit unfamiliarity with your weapon. Learn to use the weapon in all situations.

I would start with a Colt or RR 5.56. Soft recoil and fun as hell to shoot. Take your wife to the range and have fun. She will get used to the recoil after a trip or two to the range.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nostradumbass</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Don't overlook the Kalashnikov! A fine choice also....IMHO

</div></div>

i think you should overlook an AK, but only because you're left handed!

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Which Rifle?

Leftee-
LMAO, IF you can run the gauntlet, which I doubt, no slam to you but there are going to be a HUGE number of confused and pissed dying amateurs out there if the Shit really does hit the fan.

But if you make it out I'll gladly take you and whats left of your gear. No open ended promise for you though

Not making fun but you show all the classic signs of no clue what you are doing wannabee warrior.

NO weapon is effective if the shit hits the fan in the hands of someone not geared to kill or be killed from the git go.

All Hollywood movie plots aside where our everyman hero rises from Noob to steely eyed lifetaker most guys in your shoes will be stinking up their house in those same shoes.

If one in 1000 survives the first week of shit I'd be amazed.

But lets end on a positive note-

Rather than do this bass-akwards by looking at all the shiny toys do a terrain walk and examine the ground you will die on....ahhhh fight on. Just where are the fields of fire, just how many entries can you cover with that shiny new toy?

Whats the max range you need to cover?

Do you plan on trying to run away in the family car, please oh please OH PLEASE say yes!

I guess a measure you must take is just how much shit hitting the fan are you capable of withstanding in your home. A few looters or a massive wave of mindless violence bent on wiping your kind off the face of the planet. The Red Dawn masturbaters of course visualize a wave of UN gun grabbers.

Second is just how hard can you be in zero seconds. Biggest problem is most virgins to deadly force die with a puzzled look on their face.

Well its the interwebz and grand discussions of overpenetration, ammo availablity, cool lights to hang on your shit are always well attended.

Two rocks, no sharp sticks is what I recommend, hate for your sharp sticks to be used as punjis.

Good Luck, yes I am having fun, no I have not been drinking

 

[jwsnydes]

Re: Which Rifle?

I just think things here got off on the wrong foot. Calling something a SHTF rifle in your first post seems like asking for trouble. In a community where people are looking to beat stereotypes often associated with gun owners, that can raise red flags.

Good luck in your search. I am a lefty and my wife is a righty. I would highly suggest the FS2000 as it will function from both hands the same way without modification.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Which Rifle?

get a FAL. they are good

 

[RockSteady]

Re: Which Rifle?

I would go with the AR-15 type also. If you're so mechanically inclined, it's great to build one up from the ground up. That way you know the complete workings of the rifle. Then you will be confident in doing any required replacements or maintenance on it. Also as others have said, it's very modular and parts/magazines/ammo is readily available.

But what I've found to be true is that no matter which one you get, it really depends on YOUR familiarity with it and YOUR abilities with the rifle that comes from training and shooting it.

 

[RebelYell]

Re: Which Rifle?

Believe me...if your home is ever invaded by the hated zombies , I doubt your wife will never even feel the kick or the smell of the gunpowder when she pulls the trigger of your 12 gauge shotgun shooting 00 buck. After its all over and the bodies are piled up and the barrel is still smoking she will probably look at you with that "come get me look" and your day will be saved...once again.

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leftee-
no I have not been drinking </div></div>

I suggest you give it a try, and maybe a chill pill. You seem to be wound a little tight tonight.

 

[viperjody]

Re: Which Rifle?

the 6920 is the way to go with them dropping down to the $1000 mark

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Which Rifle?

I like a 20ga semi. Surprisingly accurate with rifled choke and plain old rifled slugs; I would not want to stand in front of one at 100yd, maybe further, maybe a lot further. Most deer in our area go down in front of a 20. Put factory buck loads through the same rifled choke up close, and it fills the hallway from side to side with mucho pain, reapply as needed. Neither load will rock a femme, the real issue indoors is noise, and they all make that. Noise is often just as effective as lead. Mine uses a dot scope, patterns slugs into 3" at 70yd, and that's all the tune I need to play. The lady gets the forecourt, I handle forther on out with the Garand.

There are lots of wrong answers, and they all start with thinking in terms of SHTF. Unless you use your selection on a regular basis, and learn its quirks and favors, no solution's going to work. It's like the shop ownwer who buys a sidearm, puts half a box through it at the local range, then puts it up under the register and leaves it there for a coupla years until "something" happens. Bad choice. Train for familiarity with the implement. Plan for adversity and error.

Maybe SHTF will happen, maybe not. It's skills with the implements that will save your fanny, not just the implements. The point is, whatever happens, the thing you're most comfortable and competent with is what's gonna make your day. To work, SHTF can't be a whole lot different from what you're already doing real well.

I don't have any SHTF equipment. I'm already where I'd need to be going, and pretty much anything I might need to do in that unlikely event can be very nicely accomplished with a number of my familiar implements. Just like I don't own any sniper rifles.

The Garand cost me $225 in the early 1990's and the 20ga Semi ran under $300 back around 2005 .My Win 70 lightweight .30-'06 does deer real nice, and took third in the 1997 NJ State Sniper Rifle Championships. I own no handguns, I prefer the shotgun for close work, and nobody's looking for my carry permit. Yet.

Greg

 

[socalsheepdog]

Re: Which Rifle?

I think a lot of guys use the SHTF story to get their wives to give them the OK to purchase firearms. Not saying this is you, but it comes off that way. Do you really see you and your wife moving tactically down the street calling off threats to each other as you work your way out of town?

Buy firearms because you have a love of shooting and you want to share that love with the people you love. If SHTF becomes a reality, then you have a firearm that you you know how to deploy properly because you have been engaging your hobby for years.

Having said that, get the 6920 with a Aimpoint Patrol optic and call it a day.

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Socalsheepdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think a lot of guys use the SHTF story to get their wives to give them the OK to purchase firearms. Not saying this is you, but it comes off that way. Do you really see you and your wife moving tactically down the street calling off threats to each other as you work your way out of town?

Buy firearms because you have a love of shooting and you want to share that love with the people you love. If SHTF becomes a reality, then you have a firearm that you you know how to deploy properly because you have been engaging your hobby for years.

Having said that, get the 6920 with a Aimpoint Patrol optic and call it a day. </div></div>

That's pretty astute. There is also "it's an investment" story. Joking aside I do need to consider strongly who am I really buying this for...me, my wife, or the two of us. I think I've been hoping for double duty and that the both of us might use and enjoy it, but maybe that isn't realistic. I suspect if I really want her to shoot it, and become at least moderately proficient with it, I need to go with the PS90, but if it's not a good defense rifle I might as well get her a cheap 22 rifle she can use for target practice at the range. It seems the only pistol she likes to shoot is my CZ with a 22 slide. For home defense I'd probably just grab a pistol or my 12 gauge. Not sure a decked out PS90 or even a 6920 is likely to be my choice...but would a PS90 be a good choice for her? Is it better than her reaching for a 38 revolver? I thought about a 20 gauge, but I doubt I could get her to practice with it. Think I'm going to rent an AR this weekend, blast away with it, see if I can get her to try it, and then re-evaluate.

And no, I don't see me and my wife moving tactically down the street calling off threats to each other as we work our way out of town. I guess I tend to envision typical urban crime (i.e., a burglary or home invasion) as the more relevant SHTF scenario.

 

[socalsheepdog]

Re: Which Rifle?

Get yourself a nice 5.56 AR and get her an .22 AR clone. If she does need to handle your 5.56 for any reason, she will be able to based on muscle memory. She gets involved in shooting for minimum investment and if she likes it upgrade her at a later date. Or give her your rifle and upgrade yourself. No sense in giving her the new stuff. haha

 

[LefteeGuy]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Socalsheepdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Get yourself a nice 5.56 AR and get her an .22 AR clone. If she does need to handle your 5.56 for any reason, she will be able to based on muscle memory.</div></div>

That's an interesting concept, definitely worth considering.

 

[Lefty06]

Re: Which Rifle?

As a left handed shooter I've never had any issues with hot brass hitting me. My personal preference is to not bling my are out and keep it simple. The ar is a good proven platform.

My 7 year old loves to shoot mine in the past few months he has spent more time shooting it than I have.

 

[scotharr]

Re: Which Rifle?

Not sure what "shtf" is but if you are thinking home defense, then:

1. I'd get a 20 gauge shotgun with #4 Buckshot: extremely effective with manageable recoil for your wife. Talk to anyone knowledgeable about home defense and the shotgun is always the #1 choice with a revolver/pistol being #2.

2. While I am a big fan of an AR-15 and it would be a great "survival" rifle, it would be a poor choice indoors. Talk to anyone who has shot an AR-15 indoors and you will learn....they now have significant hearing loss (without protection). With any center-fire rifle, you will have serious over-penetration concerns with an AR-15. Of course, you could select ammo to minimize this problem, but the shotgun will still be the best choice.

 

[FALex]

Re: Which Rifle?

FAL. FTW.

 

[rifleman0321]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not sure what "shtf" is but if you are thinking home defense, then:

1. I'd get a 20 gauge shotgun with #4 Buckshot: extremely effective with manageable recoil for your wife. Talk to anyone knowledgeable about home defense and the shotgun is always the #1 choice with a revolver/pistol being #2.

2. While I am a big fan of an AR-15 and it would be a great "survival" rifle, it would be a poor choice indoors. Talk to anyone who has shot an AR-15 indoors and you will learn....they now have significant hearing loss (without protection). With any center-fire rifle, you will have serious over-penetration concerns with an AR-15. Of course, you could select ammo to minimize this problem, but the shotgun will still be the best choice. </div></div>

You need to study the effects of the 5.56 vs. buckshot in penetration of normal dwelling materials. 5.56 is not a .243 or .30-06, and behaves entirely differently when penetrating drywall, glass, or other building materials. There is some surprising data in this regard. I am not arguing that a shotgun is not a better choice for most people, but the 5.56 is no slouch in the home defense role. In addition, if we are being choosy about ammo(as one should where over-penetration is a concern), then we know that neither OO buck or M855 are optimal rounds for the purpose at hand. By the same token, 4 buck or even birdshot are nearly ideal at such ranges, and there are a plethora of frangible/expanding 5.56 bullets out there as well. Choices for the ammo and platforms used in home defense are not as cut-and-dried as they once were.

 

[hotel2]

Re: Which Rifle?

I will not parade around as a hardened shooter, just one that has also been searching for a bullpup rifle that retains all the pros of an AR style. I shoot an AR and was always intrigued by the bullpup design. However, much like yourself, the lack of efficient and practical ambi bullpups are still stumping me. I like that bullpups distbute weight better, and that is my primary appeal, but if it is ambi, like the RFB (whose forward ejecting is just waiting to jam the works up) or P90's, the lack of rail system and customization of hand grips makes me reluctant to commit. bullpups simply lack the customization and "workability" of AR's. the ambi isn't merely so that myself and my buddy can shoot it, in my experience, learning to shoot either side has been a valuable tool and lesson for me. CQB or not, you're gonna want to find some barrier and your target (assuming SHTF) is gonna be moving and a transition to your other side gives you a more effective position than continuing to torque your core and shooting right-sided from the left side of a barricade is less effective and safe than shooting from your left side on the left wall. that being said, the ambi benefits of the AR still pull me back in.
After practicing both right and left side shooting, the benefits of learning to shoot ambi are invaluable and should never be overlooked or forgotten.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Which Rifle?

is ar15dotcom down ?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BOLTRIPPER</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is ar15dotcom down ? </div></div>

Their floodgates opened a couple years back.

 

[kansas45]

Re: Which Rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LefteeGuy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Socalsheepdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think a lot of guys use the SHTF story to get their wives to give them the OK to purchase firearms. Not saying this is you, but it comes off that way. Do you really see you and your wife moving tactically down the street calling off threats to each other as you work your way out of town?

Buy firearms because you have a love of shooting and you want to share that love with the people you love. If SHTF becomes a reality, then you have a firearm that you you know how to deploy properly because you have been engaging your hobby for years.

Having said that, get the 6920 with a Aimpoint Patrol optic and call it a day. </div></div>

That's pretty astute. There is also "it's an investment" story. Joking aside I do need to consider strongly who am I really buying this for...me, my wife, or the two of us. I think I've been hoping for double duty and that the both of us might use and enjoy it, but maybe that isn't realistic. I suspect if I really want her to shoot it, and become at least moderately proficient with it, I need to go with the PS90, but if it's not a good defense rifle I might as well get her a cheap 22 rifle she can use for target practice at the range. It seems the only pistol she likes to shoot is my CZ with a 22 slide. For home defense I'd probably just grab a pistol or my 12 gauge. Not sure a decked out PS90 or even a 6920 is likely to be my choice...but would a PS90 be a good choice for her? Is it better than her reaching for a 38 revolver? I thought about a 20 gauge, but I doubt I could get her to practice with it. Think I'm going to rent an AR this weekend, blast away with it, see if I can get her to try it, and then re-evaluate.

And no, I don't see me and my wife moving tactically down the street calling off threats to each other as we work our way out of town. I guess I tend to envision typical urban crime (i.e., a burglary or home invasion) as the more relevant SHTF scenario.

</div></div>

I have been following this amusing little post & I think you just hit the nail on the head. Buy a 22 clone of somekind & spend as much time at the range as you & your wife can manage. Better yet, buy a .22 LR bolt rifle along with the AR style 22 & you can improve your rifle skills without going broke buying ammo.
Whatever you do, as you know from your IDPA experience, practice is a good thing.
Good luck & enjoy yourselves while you learn.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Which Rifle?

OP, when SHTF happens, rinse your mouth out with buckshot, jus sayin

 

[George63]

Re: Which Rifle?

get a 10/22, scope or tech sights, web sling(rimfire central has all the details), google RWVA/ appleseed go to the shoots until you can shoot the rifleman score with the 22. You can put it in the tasco stock if you want it configured like an AR, buy a basic used AR, go back and shoot that at an appleseed until you can get the score. Meanwhile ask to put 10 rounds through everyones AR you can(pay for 20) If one of them thrills you move the used basic along and buy that model(a used basic should cost less than 150 to buy and sell) by now the 22 is freed up so bring the wife to an appleseed event(and hope she does not out shoot you) if you can go to a full distance event, you will now be ready to competently and quickly load, shoot, change magazines, shoot to 400 yards from field positions, and deal with malfunctions-repeat as necessary to maintain the skills