Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

[libertyman777]

Here's the deal. Should I by all the scope I can afford and pick up a rifle in the $700-$800 range or should I try for more rifle (say up to $1500 or so) and get less expensive glass?

I'll have about $2100 - $2300 to spend.

Paul

 

[Nuttshooter]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Most people say pay more for a scope than the rifle. I say get what you want.

 

[Snow Dog]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

If it were me I would spend $900 on a Remington MilSpec 5r, tune the trigger and buy a 10x Super Sniper for $299 and Rings for $100ish.

Total Spent = 1300 - 1400

Now use the rest of the cash to buy ammo and practice, practice practice.

When out of ammo sell Super Sniper, upgrade scope and crave GAP

 

[rem700man]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

im going to say split the 60/40 spend like 1300 on a scope and rings. i.e. a used leupold mark 4 or something like that. spend 7 or 800 on a 700P

hope this helps with more info maybe others will chime in.
like:
purpose of the rifle
distance
experience
caliber

 

[libertyman777]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Propose: Paper punching, hunting and maybe a couple of matches next year (1000 yard).

Distance: Most under 500 yards, the bulk of which will be at a couple of ranges, one at 100 yards, the other at 200.

Experience: My ownership experience to date or my shooting background?

Caliber: 308

 

[chad3]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

LTR for what you can get it for used, and see what you can swing for a used scope on here. Could be in the 1500 overall and you will have a nice kitty set up for when you want a few "things" for it. Thinking a nice bag, bipod, rear bag, stock pack, etc.
Nice set up and still under 2g.
Chad

 

[Ol Rob]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Buy the best scope you can afford. You can build a rifle in increments. The scope is what it is. You can't upgrade a scope without respending the whole amount. Buy a great scope and it can make you better with each rifle you put it on. That being said I have close to your stated amount in my MK4 and Rem 5R package.
Rob

 

[Anchor Zero Six]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

With a 700 you can always upgrade as you go and as funds permit. I'm probably in the minority but I would rather have a bare bones fixed power high end optic than a full featured middle of the road optic. ST-10 USO can be had for under 1K and opticaly and mechanicaly it will outshine most decked out variables in the same price range. Also to a degree these can also be upgraded as budget permits.

I would say a used 700 PSS or Savage tactical and a ST-10 would fit your budget and be a hell of a rig.

 

[tat1987]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Pay for the optics once. I would not want to skimp on the scope personally. You end up paying more money in the long run. You can always get work done on a rifle. Pick up a Rem 700 pss or a Savage, both do pretty well out of the box. IMO

 

[doc76251]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

I used to spend alot on the rifle and a bit on the glass. I discovered that the glass was the limiting factor. I now am quite happy to spend 2 -3 times the value of the rifle for glass.

A rifle can be upgraded for cheap, a scope cannot.

Cheers,

Doc

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Like others have said, optics first, rifles can be upgraded.

 

[banshee sws]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

do what snow dog said


been there and done that - rifles are a dime a dozen

even high end ones - just look at the for sale board

invest in yourself , first and when you figure out what you want in a rifle/optic/ because you have shot hundreds- thousands of rounds , you can make a educated decision FOR YOURSELF

i started out with a Winchester 70, HBV they made years ago, and quite making; i put a super sniper on it and shot it a bunch, then i had to get another gun and then another; when the one i had shot lights out with most any ammo

it wasn't new, fancy or custom, but it would stack em on the target ,

now i have come full circle back to one bolt gun, and practicing as much as i can


you will not regret Snow dog's advice - trust me

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

spend about the same on the glass as the rifle it's going on, if it's going on a stock LTR that'll never be upgraded then a SS 10x will do the trick, if it's going on a custom build then spend what you expect to have in the rifle when it's done.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

I agree with the majority before me. Go with a short action remmington 700 , PSS or VS ( Varmit Special)or the Savage I prefer longer barrel over the LTR's to get the most performance out of the bullet. Your gaining aproximately 200 fps (Give or take)and it's only 2" to 4" more and just a smidgen heavier.If you wanted a lighter weight rifle and were getting in and out of a vehicle to shoot your target, go with a LTR, ( Thats what it's designed for). You can't go wrong on a Leupold Tacticle long range scope with M-1 knobs and 30 mm tube, a 3.5X10X40mm should serve you and the majority of military snipers out their just fine. You could buy used and save you even more dough. You can find said rifle fairly easy for $500.00 in excellent shape and a good used Leupold tacticle for about $650-$700.00 and you can even find good tacticle bases and rings on this site for sale for about $125-$200 and even a Harris Bipod for a fair price... Save money for ammo, you will need it.. As far as calibers 308 will be the most common choice, but don't snivel at 223 or 22-250, I have a 22-250 built like I described and it's a wicked shooter. Anything within 400 yards is dead ringer. Good luck with your choices.....PC

 

[hydro556]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Any good scope will allow you to see your target and the turret adjustments will be repeatable and it will hold zero. IMO, spending over a grand on a scope only gets you marginally better durability. A competent shooter will not reduce his group size when going from a $1,000 scope to a $3,000 scope. The same cannot be said for doing the same numbers with the rifle. At best, tripling the price of the optic is a game of severely diminishing returns. Just my opinion, but unless lives are on the line, uber expensive scopes are not necessary.

 

[RyanScott]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Get the best glass you can, and a decent rifle.

 

[RX7-2nr]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

there are good scopes that can be had for under $1000.

 

[Goot]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Good advice for me too! I was thinking a 5R and now I am looking into a custom... check my signature for post link.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

There are shooters everywhere, including here, who hold their capabilities in high esteem, and consider those capabilities to be justification for highest quality implements. Some of them are even right about that.

For the rest of us, there are literally hundreds of midrange offering which are more than adequate for our needs. The key issue here is reliability. Buy as much reliability as you can afford, and get proficient with <span style="font-style: italic">your</span> implements.

In my estimation, the expenditure balance isn't between rifle and optics, it's between equipment and ammo, and I do my cheating in favor of the ammo.

Greg

 

[bigwheeler]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

expensive glass is easy to sell,..... rifles, not so easy.

 

[steve123]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Scopes aren't accurate, rifles are.Enough cannot be said for a tight chamber in a top quality barrel.

I'd rather have a Falcon on a 1/4 inch gun than a Nightforce on a 1 inch gun.

Steve

 

[pengilly]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

What about bushnell 4200 elete 6 x 24 x 50??? Not a bad scope at all and only about $500 shims.I use one on my 308 it shoot very well, And it dials in yardage time after time. Expensive glass is not always easy to sell unless its a real deal. Do you reload?

 

[desertHK]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Glass more than rifle for me. Most decent rifles can outshoot most average shooter, unless you are true marksman. The ability to see the target with minimal parallax, and with clarity at a distance is what counts in my book. You can't shoot somthing that you cant' see clearly. JMHO

 

[GM2]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

ive always heard spend at least as much on the glass as u spent on the rifle.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Spend more for the glass now or spend more for it later.

I spent as much as I could afford at the time. I will be upgrading soon.

 

[johngfoster]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

My rule of thumb is 50/50. Of course, my next project violates my own rule, but it should work OK.

 

[regency]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Get a NightForce 3.5-15x50 and a Remington SPS. When you shoot the barrel out, send it to GAP for new Barrel and stock.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=113574220
Scope

 

[was21]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scopes aren't accurate, rifles are.Enough cannot be said for a tight chamber in a top quality barrel.

I'd rather have a Falcon on a 1/4 inch gun than a Nightforce on a 1 inch gun.

Steve </div></div>

GLass...Glass...glass!
When you can't see what needs to be shot, a 1/4" gun is useless!!!....and a 1" will get it done if you can see.

FWIW

BTDT
Wes in AZ

 

[MBShooter]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

i just picked up all my parts for my first rifle.

rem 700 sps-v $533 from budsgunshop
B&C a5 stock $379.99 from stocky stocks
nightforce 3.5-15x50 for $1050 used here in the forsale section
BO rings and base for $200 here used in the forsale section.


i figured i can practice with the factory barrel and when i feel i am good enough i will upgrade the barrel.

 

[BillCominos]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

now invest into reloading gear to maximize the potential from all your nice new gear!! Good luck with it!

 

[was21]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

MB shooter
I'd say you did just fine.
When you've shot enought to 'need' a new brl you will know what you really need.

Wes

 

[MBShooter]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wild Bill C</div><div class="ubbcode-body">now invest into reloading gear to maximize the potential from all your nice new gear!! Good luck with it!</div></div>

as soon as i get out of my apt and into a house i plan on it. we have been looking at houses here recently, so sooner or later it will happen.

 

[steve123]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Wes,I respectfully disagree.
The optical clarity on an S&B,USO and the like is very very nice $3000 range.My Nightforce 5.5-22x56 is very nice $1700 range. My Leupold and Horus are only a hair less $1000 range.My Super Sniper is (maybe) a hair less than those $300 range.I can clearly make out a 3 inch target dot at 1000 yards with all of them. So try hitting that dot with a 1 inch gun vs a 1/4 inch gun and tell me how many shots it takes.I've tried and there is a huge difference.

I am by no means advocating a really cheap scope either.

Steve

 

[montyb]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

there is more to a scope than being able to see a three inch dot at 1k. it must have the mechanical repeatability to dial from 100 to 1k to within .3 MOA to make that dot worry. this seperates the cheep scopes from the good shit in a hurry.


i'll say it again. you are better off with a S&B on a Savage than a Barska on an AI

 

[Sig685]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

I completely reject the premise that having a top-of-the-line scope on a mediocre rifle will make you a better marksman. That is completely bogus.

On my F-class match rifle, I have installed a $400 36X Weaver scope. It tracks very well between 300 and 1000 yards and distances in between. Would I have higher scores with a $3000 S&B scope? Get serious. Would I get higher scores with a more accurate rifle, especially at the very long ranges, probably.

If you think that you will shoot better with a high priced scope, you are only deluding yourself. I don't need a Barkas on an AI, but I could use a nice Nikon or Burris or even a Leupold in the $400-$600 range. I will do far better with that combo than your S&B on a Savage.

On a shooting system, you need to have balance; putting all the (monetary) emphasis on one component at the detriment of others does no good in the end. The shooting system is only as good as its least capable component. In many cases, that component is the shooter itself and spending all the resources on the glass, which is only one component, will not bring balance to the whole system.

 

[montyb]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

i've been on both ends of that scale. the extra $1k spent on optics gets you a better weapons system. .5 MOA rifles abound, so why don't 5 inch groups at 1K? simple. optics.

and i do shoot better with good glass. that's a no brainer.

of course, a high end scope on a high end rifle trumps all.

 

[SmokeRolls]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

MBshooter, you did good. That setup should serve you well and you can always upgrade or build another rifle at a later time. Nice choice on the scope. Have fun shooting.....PC

 

[wolskyr]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1sikpupi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i've been on both ends of that scale. the extra $1k spent on optics gets you a better weapons system. .5 MOA rifles abound, so why don't 5 inch groups at 1K? simple. optics.

and i do shoot better with good glass. that's a no brainer.

of course, a high end scope on a high end rifle trumps all.</div></div>

I'm just a know-nothing old fart FNG, but I think the answer to your equation is the shooter, not the optics. I'm sure there are el cheapo scopes that can't resolve to .5MOA at 1000 yards, or are not repeatable enought to track consistently, but nobody is pushing the really cheap stuff in this thread. My own limited experience at long range tells me that I am the problem (my hold, my loads, my ability to read conditions) and I don't think that makes me unique in any way!

I've always preached the "weak link in the chain" theory. Your overall performance when shooting groups is equivalent to the root-sum-of-squares of each element (in theory). Improving the best components (rifle, optics) rapidly becomes a waste of effort. Training and practice is your best bang for the buck, once you get past purchasing absolute crap. There are other variables, especially if we are talking pro life-and-death scenarios, but for a recreational shooter your best bet is a functional rig on the good side of the price-performance curve and lots of trigger time.

Just my .02

------
--Rob W.

 

[marcus_rubbo]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?



+1

 

[montyb]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

yes, the shooter is part of the equation.

but optics, even the very best, is all about compromises. do you need nothing but high magnification? on an F class gun, maybe. but take that 36x weaver and try to shoot movers at 75 yards and tell us how that works out for you. if you just need a scope to perform in good light at known distances from the same posisitions, you can save some money and call yourself ahead.

but if you need good eye relief for out of position shots, generous exit pupil, large FOV, small physical size, accurate, repeatable knobs, durability to survive an atv ride or a tumble, enough elevation travel to reach the super sonic limit of your rifle, good glass, and still be able to count on that scope to make the shot, you will have to pay. a hunting scope will have to perform under many more conditions than the range rifle.

 

[BillCominos]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

I just bought a 2x10x12 to cut up and make a top for my black & decker workmate so I can mount up a Dillon 450 & a single stage press as well as a Forester case trimmer....works real well for my temporary apartment time.... left a brand new 12"x4"x3.5" bench in the house I just sold....you can reload in really small spaces with a little thought and creativity! BTW - I use four 25 lb sacks of lead to hold the workmate steady....

 

[steve123]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

1sikpupi,
He's only got $2300 to spend anyways for everything.
All the scopes mentioned above track just fine.

The further you go out atmospheric conditions play a larger role in shot placement.

At 1000 yard benchrest matches with the same rifle on different relays not changing adjustments at all between relays,point of impact changes are common and therefore you have to re sight in to point of impact again.

The scope that I have really come to enjoy the most is my Horus 8-26x50 varmint with shooters inch of angle.Using their MP program on palm and their reticle system, is a joy to use.I never have to mess with turret adjustment and if you miss you have an exact reference in the grid reticle as to where your shot went.

Well, turned out to be a fun thread.Good points made !

 

[Luke]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

FWIW I have a $2300 scope sitting on top of a $450 rifle

 

[sasquatch308]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

remington 700 5R, USO ST-10... that fits the budget.

 

[Sig685]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW I have a $2300 scope sitting on top of a $450 rifle

</div></div>

So, how's that working for you?

 

[montyb]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sig685</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luke</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FWIW I have a $2300 scope sitting on top of a $450 rifle

</div></div>

So, how's that working for you? </div></div>

here is one of his pics in another thread. looks capable. i'm just guessing this is the rifle he is talking about, tho.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...3474#Post803474

 

[olympian]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

Get exactly what you want in a scope and the action. Learn to shoot it and then worry about the rest of the rifle as the money becomes available to rebarrel, restock, etc. The scope and action are the heart of the set-up.

A good marksman can use an 8 pound trigger, but you need to have reliable optics.

 

[hcsd54]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

I recommend going with the IOR (Possibly a 3x18x42, or whatever your preference.) Liberty Optics has good prices and they are great scopes imo. And if you watch the for sale threads on here, you will see some really good deals quite frequently on both scopes and rifles.

 

[Swamper]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

$2100?

Buy your Rem 700 5R and have your gunsmith set it up with a .001 over minimum oal chamber. Go .0005" over min if you want best precision. Experiment with your bullet seating depth and action screw torque values.

Scope? Used 10x Leupold mark 4 TPS TSR low rings and Warne tactical base.

 

[improwler]

Re: Which should I spend more on, rifle or glass?

remington 700 sps .308 = 550.00
stock upgrade, bell & carlson medalist = 250.00
stock upgrade mcmillian = 600.00
mounts and rings = 200.00
that leaves either 1100.00 or 800.00 depending on stock for scope

best 800.00 scope imo = sightron

best 1100.00 scope imo = IOR

You will need a good range finder as well, bushnell 1500 = 400.00

whatever you do, have money for little shit like stockpacks, dope cards, small backpack, sling, makes the experience so much more enjoyable.

Then find some ammo the rifle likes and buy a case. youll be all set!