Which sight for m4 afghanistan

[Oldcoast]

My cousin is being deployed to Kandahar at the end of the month. He is issued a m4 with open sights and was told he can use his own optics on it if he chooses. I'm looking for advise on a sight for him. I guess in the 4x range. Is acog still the favorite? And what model? Thanks in advance.

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Most of the guys I've worked with in Iraq use an ACOG or Aimpoint. Obviously no magnification with the Aimpoint unless you get the separate 3x. The ACOG's seem to cover a broad range model wise, all depending on a person's preference. Will he have a chance to check out a couple in person?

 

[shooter6.5]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

A whole lot depends on what he will be doing. Find out. If he is staying behind the wire then the open sights will be just fine.

If he is going out on missions then do the ACOG. Have him choose it as there are a number of colors and designs in the reticles. Look at the Micro T-1. Small, compact and works great for rapid targets. You want magnification throw a 3X on it.

If his unit is not giving him any more than the weapon I doubt that he will be going out much. Most units equip their folks pretty well these days.

 

[Mustafa]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Depends on what kind of work he's doing. Taliban like to shoot from really far away most of the time. I believe most engagements happen beyond 300 meters and often as far as 1200 (PKM fire). I'm a big fan of flexibility though. Something like S&B short dot or anything in the 1-4 or 1-8 range would be awesome. That way, you can keep the optic dialed down to 1x with the red dot on to use like an aimpoint, but if you take fire from further out, you can dial in for more precise fire and better target identification.
Hope that helps!

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

I am too with tellin him to save his money, if he wer to do a job needin kewl sheet they'd give it to him......that is unless he wants to be "that guy" with all the trash on his junk in the chow hall lookin operator'ish

 

[Chiller]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Vortex Razor 1-4

 

[krummarine]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

You don't mention what branch he is in. When I deployed to Iraq in 2005 with the 5th Civil Affairs Group, we were issued ACOGS; a good piece of gear that took a daily beating from us Marines and the heat/dust but stayed zeroed and sharp/clear.

I'd be surprised if he wasn't issued some type of optic.

 

[crebrosseau]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

I used an ACOG and an Aimpoint in Afghanistan and an Eotech in Iraq. He'll get issued one of the three. He needs to wait to see what he get's issued. If he's 11 bang bang and part of aby decent unit he'll get an ACOG. If he's lucky an ACOG. Whats his MOS? He going to be a fobbit or actually go outside the wire? If he is something like a mechanic or admin he can strip his rifle of everything but the BUIS and save weight carrying it around.

 

[marduk185]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

bsa red dot sight is outstanding kit. be sure and pack some gak in the care package as well. he'll love you for it.

 

[Oldcoast]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Hes just out of basic. Stationed at Fort Riley Big Red 1. He said they would be watching the Pakistan border. That's about all I know for specifics.

I thought he would be issued something with magnification but he seams to think he wont.

I'll take a look at these. Thanks.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

a joe out of basic DEFINATLEY needs to save his loot, a year from now he will be able to buy alot more beers and that acog wont get his noodle wet

 

[Oldcoast]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

HAha. Sounds like you know him.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Big Red 1. I doubt he isn't going to get either a M68 reflex, ACOG or something else.

What is his job in the military?

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

You need an optic you can co witness with. Just incase your battery runs out at a bad time. The last thing you want is being left there with no optic. I was issued an ACOG on my M16a4 and hated it. I would have rather run an aimpoint which was a model that could be co-witness.

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[Oldcoast]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Big Red 1. I doubt he isn't going to get either a M68 reflex, ACOG or something else.

What is his job in the military?</div></div>
I've only talked to him a few times since he's been assigned. All I know is that he's infantry.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need an optic you can co witness with. Just incase your battery runs out at a bad time. The last thing you want is being left there with no optic. I was issued an ACOG on my M16a4 and hated it. I would have rather run an aimpoint which was a model that could be co-witness.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

?????
"co-witness with"? Do you mean "spot for"?

I'm limited to doctrinal terms only and this is not one.

The ACOG is a much better optic then the M68 for the Ghan! There is no battery required for the ACOG versus the M68 and the ACOG offers some magnification as opposed to the M68.

 

[Strangedays]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need an optic you can co witness with. Just incase your battery runs out at a bad time. The last thing you want is being left there with no optic. I was issued an ACOG on my M16a4 and hated it. I would have rather run an aimpoint which was a model that could be co-witness.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

?????
"co-witness with"? Do you mean "spot for"?

I'm limited to doctrinal terms only and this is not one.

The ACOG is a much better optic then the M68 for the Ghan! There is no battery required for the ACOG versus the M68 and the ACOG offers some magnification as opposed to the M68.

</div></div>
I think you should have googled before asking what co-witness is. It is when you can use your iron sights through your optic. I would always co-witness with my aimpoints and eotechs. You cannot co-witness through an acog. If you need more information then search it.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Infantry and he isn't issued an optic? Seriously?

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Shit, hes Infantry. He's getting an optic before he deploys!!! Every unit there has or should have more then enough optics available. I am betting that someone is screwing with the new guy.

What unit is he in over there?

I would check with him again. Find out what weapons system he is on and re-verify.

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need an optic you can co witness with. Just incase your battery runs out at a bad time. The last thing you want is being left there with no optic. I was issued an ACOG on my M16a4 and hated it. I would have rather run an aimpoint which was a model that could be co-witness.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

?????
"co-witness with"? Do you mean "spot for"?

I'm limited to doctrinal terms only and this is not one.

The ACOG is a much better optic then the M68 for the Ghan! There is no battery required for the ACOG versus the M68 and the ACOG offers some magnification as opposed to the M68.

</div></div>
I think you should have googled before asking what co-witness is. It is when you can use your iron sights through your optic. I would always co-witness with my aimpoints and eotechs. You cannot co-witness through an acog. If you need more information then search it. </div></div>
I have yet to need to "co-witness" on optic. I confirm my zero on occasions and shoot when I have the availability. When I did have backup irons and used them while my M68 was on my M4 we never called it "co-witness", I guess I'm older then the average marketer? I need to start making up some terms for prosperity.

I got it, it is nice to verify your optic is close but that is what zero confirmation is for. ACOG is much better for the warfighter in the long fight versus a M68. If your worried about your zero try taking care of your weapons.

Just my .02

 

[Oldcoast]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Yea but I figured they would let him train with it for a while. He's going over april 1st.

 

[J.Boyette]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: marduk185</div><div class="ubbcode-body">bsa red dot sight is outstanding kit. </div></div>

dude,

thanks of the funny joke.

BSA on a deploying rifle.

Thats real funny.

John

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Sometimes it works out that way. I would check what system he is assigned to. Sometimes we like to give the new guy the M240 to hump around or the SAW aka M249. He'll probably get an M4 and either an M68 which is a pretty common optic, or an ACOG. I have seen a few Elcans on systems with 5.56 reticles but we primarely use those on the M249 or M240 (they are refered to as MGO's aka machine gun optics).
Sometimes what happens is that a unit in a division deploys and if they are short equipment for some reason such as maintanance or other issues then they will take from a non-deploying or a unit deploying later. I know there are sufficient optics on that installation unless they shipped them out in the last year which is a possibility but unlikely. I think he will be taken care of but that is very odd that his chain of command would say something like that!

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

if he's Infantry, he'll get the optic, he might get it just in time to qualify with it one time, but he'll get one. only way he might not is if he's a crew member on a bradley or something like that. hell most REMFs are getting optics now

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if he's Infantry, he'll get the optic, he might get it just in time to qualify with it one time, but he'll get one. only way he might not is if he's a crew member on a bradley or something like that. hell most REMFs are getting optics now </div></div>
He's going to Afghanistan and even Bradley crews have M4's or M16 series.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

yes, but... nevermind

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes, but... nevermind </div></div>

I was just stating the obvious. I get that way after reduced sleep cycles and a couple of Monster drinks

I obviously missed your point initialy in my half sleep state. Time to write another paper for my masters. I love working and trying to do a masters at the same time.

 

[Luke]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

As already mentioned if he's in a position to <span style="font-weight: bold">need</span> an optic he'll be issued one. If he wants to buy one anyway - Trijicon & USO make good quality optics, but it will set him back close to a months pay

 

[JHenckel]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan



Aight check it out, just like everyone has already said, hes gonna get an optic somehow, more often than not units that dont currently have optics will get them on the way out the door, or at in country RFI, or just hot seat them from the departing unit, he will have a chance to zero the sucker at Bagram. However if by chance he doesnt like what they give him, and trust me he will get something if he is Infantry, I recommend EOTech EOTech EOTech!!! Reason being, if you know how to shoot you can effectively hang with anyone using an ACOG that costs 3x as much. Plus he will have way more versatility than using a magnified optic, leave all that stuff up to the EBRs and 240! One walk through a qalat village and he will wish he had an EOTech. Here is a pic of my EOTech on my Mk.48, its been on my SAW which I fist deployed with, then on my M4, then for a short time on my 240, now its on my pride and joy, it has done great on all of those weapons, super versatile.

 

[Jong]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Coldshot,

Love my EOTECH too but why not go to one of the smaller reflex sights available now. If I had a choice that is where I would go now. I don't and didn't have that choice, plus with some of those sights you don't have too worry so much about batteries.

 

[JHenckel]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Coldshot,

Love my EOTECH too but why not go to one of the smaller reflex sights available now. If I had a choice that is where I would go now. I don't and didn't have that choice, plus with some of those sights you don't have too worry so much about batteries. </div></div>

Awesome question! My personal reason is because of durability, this thing as been shut in a MaxxPro ramp, slammed in MATV door, and dropped banged smashed and crushed in on or around just about anything haha its got that thick ass protective hood around the actual glass. Im pretty convinced its unbreakable, but then again I dont have experience with any or the other reflexes, with the exception of the M68, which i abhor because if the crappy sight picture, especially with the honeycomb...you are very right about the battery issue though, the AA's need changing every 2-3 weeks or so, its a pain in the ass, but we've got pallets of em so it doesnt really bother me.

 

[soleus123]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

If he's on the pakistan border he will probably want a magnified optic for target id.

 

[breachersup]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Coldshot brings up a good point that echoes what some other's have said. Totally depends on what his job in country is gonna be as to what sight would be really ideal for the deployment, and what would make the most sense financially.

I would think that his two best options would be as follows:

a) an Eotech with a 5.56 BDC - here he can go with one that takes double A batteries or one that takes the lithium 123 batteries

b) a Trijicon ACOG TA-31 M4 which is made exactly for the weapon he will be using and the ammo he is using. - requires no batteries but is way more expensive than some Eotech models.


Totally operator's preference here. I think it boils down to 2 factors to consider:

1) what's his job gonna be over there?
2) does he enjoy shooting in and out of the military enough to justify spending big bucks on a sight cuz he will use it after the deployment?

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

he's an infantry PRIVATE........again he needs not spend a dime of his loot which is small to begin with. He will get what is needed.

Stefan, dont know where you've been bro but "co-witness" is a term that's been around the infantry ever since the day the CCO (aimpoint) was adopted back in around 1998 if memory serves. Hell we even taught Joe a short block of instruction (with a TSP) on Co-witnessing their CCO in Basic Training.....I take that back it was in their AIT phase during the ARM periods. Not tryin to be a dick or bust your balls, just saying it's a common term

 

[LRS_Ranger]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he's an infantry PRIVATE........again he needs not spend a dime of his loot which is small to begin with. He will get what is needed.</div></div>

+1 As a cherry private he's got a hell of a lot more important things to worry about than what kind of optic he is running on his rifle. Not to be a dick but knowing his battle drills will make him far more combat effective than finding the perfect sight..

 

[4688]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

EOTECH!!! I uesd an EOTECH in the some AO you can't go past them.
There good to go.

 

[marshallwk]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

If you go eotech watch which model you get. Certain models(the ones military issues to some) have arms mounts which may lead to loss of zero. Also the tan one currently in sopmod block 2 has battery compartment issues. Aimpoints don't have these issues and have 5 times the battery life and are easier to turn on.
That being said I use an xps with magnifier which short of a s&b 1-4 is the best all around setup. Another similar option that would work better in the border region is a leupold mark 2 3-9 or mark ar and a red dot mounted at the 1 o'clock.

 

[Jong]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ColdShotKill</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jong</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Coldshot,

Love my EOTECH too but why not go to one of the smaller reflex sights available now. If I had a choice that is where I would go now. I don't and didn't have that choice, plus with some of those sights you don't have too worry so much about batteries. </div></div>

Awesome question! My personal reason is because of durability, this thing as been shut in a MaxxPro ramp, slammed in MATV door, and dropped banged smashed and crushed in on or around just about anything haha its got that thick ass protective hood around the actual glass. Im pretty convinced its unbreakable, but then again I dont have experience with any or the other reflexes, with the exception of the M68, which i abhor because if the crappy sight picture, especially with the honeycomb...you are very right about the battery issue though, the AA's need changing every 2-3 weeks or so, its a pain in the ass, but we've got pallets of em so it doesnt really bother me. </div></div>

Durability depends on the EOTECH. The first ones I used and still have one from 6 years ago were durable. Hell one EOTECH got blown up and the SAW barrel was bent. Took off the EOTECH and put it on another SAW and it still had a zero. The newer ones aren't as durable from what I have seen. For some reason they changed the battery covers and I have had some issues with them not holding up to recoil. They would turn off after shooting too many rounds, however EOTECH I believe has fixed that with mounting the batteries sideways.

I also haven't used another sight but I don't have to carry my M4 at all. It stays in the vehicle, but if I were humping up those hills in the Stan I would love to try a smaller sight.

 

[Oldcoast]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll get in touch with him and have him find out if he will get a sight. He said something about using lighter armor because they had to climb over wall after wall so one of those micro sights might be a nice weight savings.

I just wanted to make sure that he is going to have the best equipment. I don't mind putting up some $$ if its going to give him an advantage. That's about the only thing i can do from cozy US of A.

 

[JHenckel]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Yeah that "lighter armor" im sure is the new plate carrier, i dont care for it too much, it rubs my love handles lol! But yeah they come in handy, it doesnt seem too much lighter than the IOTV but i can move around a bit better in it, you can see my Mk.48 above is stripped to save weight, there aint no flat ground here

 

[stefan73]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he's an infantry PRIVATE........again he needs not spend a dime of his loot which is small to begin with. He will get what is needed.

Stefan, dont know where you've been bro but "co-witness" is a term that's been around the infantry ever since the day the CCO (aimpoint) was adopted back in around 1998 if memory serves. Hell we even taught Joe a short block of instruction (with a TSP) on Co-witnessing their CCO in Basic Training.....I take that back it was in their AIT phase during the ARM periods. Not tryin to be a dick or bust your balls, just saying it's a common term </div></div>
Your talking about the OSUT period for combat arms out on Sand Hill aren't you?

No, not busting my balls, and if you were I deserve it! I've been playing Infantry since 98 but on the commissioned side. Prior to that I played reservist till I completed my schooling. That is seriously the first time I have heard that reference. Always learning.

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your talking about the OSUT period for combat arms out on Sand Hill aren't you?</div></div>
yes I am my friend

 

[marduk185]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

get yer friend an acog, ill get a mirror for my ceiling and cowitness his gf.

 

[shooter19802003]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Stefan73</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need an optic you can co witness with. Just incase your battery runs out at a bad time. The last thing you want is being left there with no optic. I was issued an ACOG on my M16a4 and hated it. I would have rather run an aimpoint which was a model that could be co-witness.

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>

?????
"co-witness with"? Do you mean "spot for"?

I'm limited to doctrinal terms only and this is not one.

The ACOG is a much better optic then the M68 for the Ghan! There is no battery required for the ACOG versus the M68 and the ACOG offers some magnification as opposed to the M68.

</div></div>

The battery life for the m68 is like 8 years of constant on (forget which setting). So I wouldn't let battery life steer you away from that optic. I personally like them and think they are great. To each their own though.

 

[SpenceDaddy]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

been there done that. you shouldnt need anything more than a standard 4x acog. i wouldnt know which model i was issued mine.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VAJayJayPunisher</div><div class="ubbcode-body">he's an infantry PRIVATE........again he needs not spend a dime of his loot which is small to begin with. He will get what is needed.

Stefan, dont know where you've been bro but "co-witness" is a term that's been around the infantry ever since the day the CCO (aimpoint) was adopted back in around 1998 if memory serves. Hell we even taught Joe a short block of instruction (with a TSP) on Co-witnessing their CCO in Basic Training.....I take that back it was in their AIT phase during the ARM periods. Not tryin to be a dick or bust your balls, just saying it's a common term </div></div>

I remember getting the aimpoints in '98 while I was at Campbell. We got our typical training class on how to zero it, and operate it, and not once was the term "co-witness" thrown around. Just sayin'.

Branden

 

[CE1371]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

Coldshot I just want to say "fuck you" for having an mk48. I'm insanely jealous and wish I had that my last go around.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

No solider should need to spend a dime on optics. In the beginning Afghan and Iraq wars supplies and optics choices was limited, however we still were issued M68, MGO sights, and towards 2004 Eo-techs. After that we had everything available, Acogs, crappy MARs sights, the new Aimpoints and then newer and newer,(One Deployment had 3 different types of Aimpoints). Worst case, hoard ammo, and cool shit as trading material as you never know when an "extra" off the books optic comes up. Anything You buy will become either destroyed or look as if it was dragged behind a truck, so might as well have it be the issued shit.

Oh my choice is the EO-tech had once ever since 2004 never failed, never lost zero, and easy to find batteries (for those who lack a decent commo or S4...supply nazis, nothing gets me more pissed when I have to fight to get some 123a)

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

I am amazed to hear EOTech's recommended.

I have seen nothing but problems with them here. The ones on our team go through batteries like mad.

I have had dead solid reliability with my Aimpoint M2. I change the battery once a year or before we run a warrant roundup (multiple high risk warrants in a day). I never have to worry about it and I have seen an Aimpoint run over by a truck that still worked (rifle was busted to pieces though).

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

Re: Which sight for m4 afghanistan

i HATE eotechs, if it isn't eating batteries, we have having issues with them turning off cuz of the springs inside, i have never had any issues with anything from aimpoint.