Whidden dies

[orkan]

The key aspect of ordering dies from whidden is making sure you get one that is cut with an actual reamer... not single point. I've had quite a few customers that I've sent there pretty displeased with their dies when they were single point. That's unfortunate, and has been unpleasant to deal with. Though it's not like I presently have a "better" place to send people. The current state of die quality in the industry is absolutely terrible. Horrific, in a word.

I have some experience with whidden. Mostly positive.

Yet I'd love to find a die maker that could turn out a die set that was guaranteed to be concentric and coaxially aligned... and I would pay as much as $500 for a custom FL sizer with custom high-ride expander, and a micrometer seater with custom sliding sleeve. I'd even send them my own chamber reamer and resize reamer so they could make it... if I was confident they had a proper machine doing the work with enough through-bore coolant pressure to ensure my reamers would be properly cared for, and a talented enough operator to keep on top of material setup. Yup, I'd easily pay $500 for a guaranteed set of dies. Not... "if it's not right we'll fix it" but a set of dies that will not leave the shop unless they've been inspected by some extremely expensive measuring equipment to confirm they are 100% right. I might even pay more for that set of dies. Yeah, I'd probably pay more.

Then I am automatically reminded about how people will claim their $45 RCBS sizer is just as good as that $300 die... and how any company attempting to do this would be immediately discouraged by the masses of "good enough for me" people.

 

[Lougoldring]

Have you looked at the sizing dies from Warner Tool. They are masterpieces. They only make seating dies for larger wildcats but will do special runs for regular cartridges if requested. The main thing is their sizing dies and they are exceptional. They may be slightly above your $500 mark but, in my opinion, they are worth it. I also have custom Whidden dies and I use the Warner.

 

[secondofangle2]

my 375 CT dies from Whidden where junk, scratched the shit out of my brass, finish on the knurls was so bad that I cut my hand every time I turned them, what a crappy product, I returned them for full refund and will never buy them again.

I have a custom (sized to my fired brass) Warner Tool 50 BMG die that I have about $1500 in with all the bushings I have for it, and it is the finest piece of steel I own hands down.

 

[orkan]

Have you looked at the sizing dies from Warner Tool.

They are not compatible with a Forster Co-Ax. They won't produce 7/8" dies. I've asked.

 

[Alan Warner]

They are not compatible with a Forster Co-Ax. They won't produce 7/8" dies. I've asked.

Well, I did not elaborate in our phone con, but the reason the coax exists is because of dies that are not straight to begin with. The whole reason to "float" the die is to make up for a porely made one.
Is the price of a press really holding you back?

 

[orkan]

Is the price of a press really holding you back?

It's not the price at all. It's the open front to the Co-Ax that I like as well as the extremely quick swap capability of dies. I am working with so many different customer rifles and so many of my own in the course of the day, It's not uncommon to swap dies 3 dozen times. Presently I'm working with a 20-223AI and as I work up loads I will fire a single piece of brass until failure, so that requires swapping between sizer and seater once per firing... by the time that gets done 20 times, I'm sure you can understand I'm not about to sit there and screw those dies in and out each time. Two stations on a turret press would work... but I'm not a fan of turrets, and most turrets aren't compatible with your dies either.

Do you know of an open front turret press that is compatible with your dies?

If not, then my search for a quality die maker continues.

 

[padom]

Open front, turret press that accepts 1-1/4" dies....Area419 zero

 

[orkan]

Open front, turret press that accepts 1-1/4" dies....Area419 zero

Are those turrets available? Last I heard that was a "future" thing.

 

[padom]

Are those turrets available? Last I heard that was a "future" thing.

No idea, has it listed in the product description.

 

[orkan]

No idea, has it listed in the product description.

Well in the event it's not vaporware and shows up sometime... the availability of a quality die will be enough to sell the presses.

In the mean time... there's still a market for a quality 7/8" die.

 

[Alan Warner]

Well in the event it's not vaporware and shows up sometime... the availability of a quality die will be enough to sell the presses.

In the mean time... there's still a market for a quality 7/8" die.

Well, I know how to do what you are looking for. Only problem is you can,t afford it. It's about a 3 to 400,000 $ investment.

 

[Alan Warner]

Well, I know how to do what you are looking for. Only problem is you can,t afford it. It's about a 3 to 400,000 $ investment.

And, you are the only one looking for it.

 

[orkan]

And, you are the only one looking for it.

I'm the only one looking for high quality 7/8" dies?

That is unlikely.

 

[kthomas]

I'm the only one looking for high quality 7/8" dies?

That is unlikely.

What about SAC?

Precision Resizing Dies — Short Action Customs, LLC

www.shortactioncustoms.com

 

[Gil P.]

I'm among those who think that any "quality" die is probably good enough. Having said that, my Whidden FL die is the only die I've owned that's ever eaten my brass. I'm pretty sure it was the Whidden bushing I was using. It wasn't beveled and crushed my brass and broke decapping assemblies. Oh well.

I'm interested in the SAC dies as well.

 

[orkan]

What about SAC?

Precision Resizing Dies — Short Action Customs, LLC

www.shortactioncustoms.com

Calling them tomorrow.

 

[padom]

Been using them for months now. They are excellent.

 

[Strykervet]

First off, how many of these are custom Whidden dies vs. their mass produced stuff? Sent in 3 spent cases with specs?

I mean, I don't think this many people should be having problems with off the shelf dies, but it makes me wonder still. I've only had experience with the custom trim die and it's setup so as not to size the case any more than .001 or .0005 or some such. Enough to hold a slick case but not enough to affect the Forster die that comes next. It's a pretty precise setup, very well made and polished, way better than Dillon factory stuff. I'd take a picture if it wasn't such a hassle to do right now.

The dies shop manager was super easy to deal with, said to deal with him directly for best results. I get the impression they make a LOT more than just loading dies there FWIW.

Unless you know of a better custom shop to deal with, Whidden will remain my goto for that type of stuff. I mean custom as in it simply isn't made elsewhere (like Grendel trim dies). And please don't say CH4D, I'd rather use Bubba welded washers and water pipes before dealing with them again.

 

[orkan]

First off, how many of these are custom Whidden dies vs. their mass produced stuff? Sent in 3 spent cases with specs?

I mean, I don't think this many people should be having problems with off the shelf dies, but it makes me wonder still. I've only had experience with the custom trim die and it's setup so as not to size the case any more than .001 or .0005 or some such. Enough to hold a slick case but not enough to affect the Forster die that comes next. It's a pretty precise setup, very well made and polished, way better than Dillon factory stuff. I'd take a picture if it wasn't such a hassle to do right now.

The dies shop manager was super easy to deal with, said to deal with him directly for best results. I get the impression they make a LOT more than just loading dies there FWIW.

Unless you know of a better custom shop to deal with, Whidden will remain my goto for that type of stuff. I mean custom as in it simply isn't made elsewhere (like Grendel trim dies). And please don't say CH4D, I'd rather use Bubba welded washers and water pipes before dealing with them again.

I have never had them mess one up when I provide them with a resize reamer. They obviously can produce some great dies. Several of my customers gave me a piece of their mind when their dies that they sent in brass for ended up badly. Since then, I recommend to get a resize reamer made at the same time as your chamber reamer.

 

[orkan]

OH!... and I forgot to mention my favorite thing about Whidden. I don't care what kind of off the wall wildcat cartridge I want a die made for... they can make it. That is a huge strength right there. One that I haven't seen equaled yet.

 

[kthomas]

OH!... and I forgot to mention my favorite thing about Whidden. I don't care what kind of off the wall wildcat cartridge I want a die made for... they can make it. That is a huge strength right there. One that I haven't seen equaled yet.

That's what I did when I went no neck turn 6BRA before that cartridge grew legs. I sent Whidden my reamer print, and they built me a click adjustable FL sizing die that's been nothing short of great.

 

[iceng]

I will never use CH4D. Had a customer who wanted a 308win Ackley. Had a custom reamer, sent print to them, they said yup will work. 50 FL sizings and each one had BAD shaving on the base of the brass, even with lube. Asked what's going on, said I will lightly chamfer the bottom, they approved. The die split. Yes, it physically split up the guts.

Got a replacement, IDENTICAL issue. Threw it away, got a redding type S, 7mm08 Ackley, new bushing in it, and it worked great.

@orkan with firing brass to its limits, would a multi turret press work ? Like the Lyman brass-smith or the redding T7 ? What about an arbour press and LEwilson dies ? The Arbor routine would be quick, however a huge setup cost as you already own regular dies.

 

[orkan]

@orkan with firing brass to its limits, would a multi turret press work ? Like the Lyman brass-smith or the redding T7 ?

They probably would... but it doesn't change the fact that I'd have to swap turrets multiple times a day. In a typical day I'll load for 3-5 cartridges. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the convenience of the Co-Ax. At least nothing I've seen, used, or heard about. It's so nice to not need to buy a bunch of extra turrets. With the Co-Ax I can just stick a lock ring of my choosing on the die and that's it from then on. I can swap as much as I like and it takes a second.

Wilson dies with an arbor is most definitely not quick. Quick change, sure... but ultra slow to use, especially when sizing.

 

[padom]

They probably would... but it doesn't change the fact that I'd have to swap turrets multiple times a day. In a typical day I'll load for 3-5 cartridges. Nothing, and I mean nothing, beats the convenience of the Co-Ax. At least nothing I've seen, used, or heard about. It's so nice to not need to buy a bunch of extra turrets. With the Co-Ax I can just stick a lock ring of my choosing on the die and that's it from then on. I can swap as much as I like and it takes a second.

Wilson dies with an arbor is most definitely not quick. Quick change, sure... but ultra slow to use, especially when sizing.

Area419 just confirmed they have shipped a pile of 1-1/4 turrets for the Zero to date and they are available. So there's that option.

I also perform lots of different tasks for many different calibers each day on my press. This is why I love my 550c with dedicated toolheads for every caliber. Changing caliber on a 550c is nothing like on a XL650.. Takes less than a minute at worst if you are changing toolhead and shell plate. Pull 2 pins, slide new toolhead in, turn allen 1/4 turn and change plates. I use Whidden floating die toolheads on all my toolheads for my seating dies. If you are changing between calibers that all use the same parent case (308 family for example) you only pull 2 pins and change the toolhead....Takes all of 10sec.

The ability to simply set 1 piece of brass in the shell plate and only pull the handle to perform up to 4 tasks on a single caliber (or less if you dont want to populate all the stations) is faster than any press Ive tested to date. I have a Co-Ax, Rockchucker, 550c and 2 XL650's. The Rockchucker is setup for dedicated de-priming of single pieces of brass or bullet pulling. The Co-Ax is in a box ever since I switched to the 550c. Switching to the 550c for all my precision reloading was the best move I ever made and Ill never go back. Is it cheap doing it this way. No, I have lots of money invested in my 550c and all the dedicated toolheads but who cares. Its all about time while maintaining the consistency and the 550c does exactly that.

As discussed in another thread this week, this setup with my SAC "The Seating Die" and sizing dies from SAC and Might Armory produce virtually no runout. We are talking .001 runout max with most in the .0005 range. The seating depth consistency from round to round with SAC The Seating Die is second to none compared to any Whidden, Redding, Forster seating dies Ive compared it to here in the shop. Its a beautiful die.

 

[orkan]

Just got off the phone with SAC. Very pleased with what I heard and I have some on the way to try out.

It would seem that my search is over.

 

[Draht]

Another option is to use the Newlon Precision die blanks. These are 7/8 dies. This requires your gunsmith to “chamber” the die with a sizing reamer then heat treat the die.

 

[orkan]

Another option is to use the Newlon Precision die blanks. These are 7/8 dies. This requires your gunsmith to “chamber” the die with a sizing reamer then heat treat the die.

Been down that road. Happiness was not found.

 

[Draht]

Can you elaborate on the issues?

 

[orkan]

Can you elaborate on the issues?

I'd rather not venture into talking ill of companies products when I can avoid it. In this instance, I can easily avoid it.

You mentioned it to me as an option, and I appreciate the thought... but I've tried it and not found the level of quality I was after. That's not to say it shouldn't remain an option or that I think its terrible. Rather, I'm looking for the apex experience... and didn't find it there. Then too, it was years ago... so maybe things have changed for the better. There's always room for companies to improve their products... so I try not to vilify things these days.

After talking with Mark Gordon this morning, it's clear to me that he intends to make sure SAC can produce an apex level experience with their dies. Whether they will be able to do that consistently or not, remains to be seen. Time will tell... but I've made the decision to give my full support, such as it is, to him and his effort to do so.

 

[iceng]

Mark and SAC are awesome. I use his barrel vice, broke part of it, he replaced the whole thing, and sent to me in Australia. I use it daily, and it's the best I've tried.

 

[Tims]

I bought a whidden click adjustable .223 sizing die in December and it sucks. I normally use lanolin base lube to size my cases and almost had a case get stuck. Imperial die wax was better but the die is scratching cases. This is the worst sizing die I've ever used.

I emailed whidden and asked to exchange it for another. They said send it in for polishing. Sent the die in ( had to pay for shipping) still waiting to get it back. Here is a pic of the scratches on the cases. In person they look worse.

 

[TreyMeTrey]

Have you looked at the sizing dies from Warner Tool. They are masterpieces. They only make seating dies for larger wildcats but will do special runs for regular cartridges if requested. The main thing is their sizing dies and they are exceptional. They may be slightly above your $500 mark but, in my opinion, they are worth it. I also have custom Whidden dies and I use the Warner.

Ive got several Whidden dies..Just got my Full Length Sizing Die Set wuth the Clickable Nut and Bushings. However I do not know what a Warner is. If its not too much to ask???
Im a fairly new reloader. I saw Erik Cortina had some Whidden dies. .. Like I said Im new to it.But I asked him which one was better? He said which one am I using now! ..It was the Whidden..
That told me it is a good one.

 

[spife7980]

However I do not know what a Warner is. If its not too much to ask???

First google result for warner reloading https://www.warner-tool.com/reloading-dies/

 

[TreyMeTrey]

First google result for warner reloading https://www.warner-tool.com/reloading-dies/

Thank you.I see what you mean about WARNER .Those are the finest dies .They are priced accordingly too. But Hey.. if you are serious about your reloading and shooting Warner are the ones you want. I am going to call them and send them 4 fired brass as soon as my custom build is complete.I may get one for my 6.5 Creedmoor Im shooting now if my Whidden Dies dont please me. hoping they do.Im already invested in them with one custom and one clickable for it.
I really do appreciate you taking time to send me a reply and a link to Warner.It sure was an eye opening experience and educational. many Thanks

 

[Krob95]

Ordered the SAC 6GT sizing die on back order as I’m going to be using it for a 22GT build (have to turn down the decapping stem). But I’m thinking a 6BRA sizing die may be in order too over the Redding die I have currently. @orkan, how do you like your dasher die from SAC so far?

 

[orkan]

@orkan, how do you like your dasher die from SAC so far?

Loving it so far. I need to dive into it with some micrometers... and get some more rounds down range. I'm going to run an experiment on some Dasher brass with it to compare its performance to the whidden die I'm presently using.