Who’s done the full run?

[Bluegrassvw]

So here is my question:

In regards to shooting matches:

Who here has worked up from varies levels of 22LR, arrived at a Vudoo or Rimx and have the data to show its worth the money?
Or experience..

Example: 10/22 to CZ (or any other) then to Vudoo/Rimx.

I’m in the position where I’m asking myself, am I dropping the shots past 200 or is it my gun? Running a self built “custom” 10/22. I can generally keep up with the top shooters but can’t consistently stay in the top 10 when shooting.

Was considering building a CZ but keep being told there is no point. I just have no way to quantify the differences do to access to weapons.

Thanks

 

[Taylorbok]

From everything I've seen the 457, T1x and Bergara's don't really seem to benefit greatly from a new barrel, The chassis/ stock is preference and fit.
I've got a T1x that hammers but I can't stop thinking about a Vudoo. I don't shoot enough rimfire to justify it but I am sure I will end up buying one just out of want.

I really don't think they shoot much better than any of the other higher end rimfires out there but the cool factor comes into play.
I'd say your 10/22 even if it's custom is giving up points to accuracy compared to a decent bolt action rig.

 

[Mxridr]

I shoot a Bergara and it’s very accurate. Just hard to balance even with the steel barrel. I can’t justify a rebarrel so I ordered a Rimx and straight taper barrel. Accuracy wise I am not held back by the Bergara. I already have a Zermatt tl3 and very happy with it so Rimx was easy choice for me.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

"Worth the money" to who? Based on what criteria? If all you care about is raw accuracy, you can probably get all you "need" from a bone-stock CZ-457 MTR - the ones I've seen shoot amazingly well.

But, compared to the overall fit/finish/feel of a Vudoo or RimX, a CZ comes up short.

How much are the "finer points" of the top-shelf rifles worth to you? The higher you climb in price tiers, the more you spend for minimally more improvement. A 457 may well have the raw accuracy of a Vudoo or RimX. But it will never feel overall like a Vudoo or RimX. What that top-tier fit/finish/feel is worth is totally subjective.

I started precision rimfire with a CZ-455 "Tacticool" customized with a trigger kit and chassis. With a Harrell tuner, it shot pretty well. I had an opportunity to try out a 455 heavily customized by a smith nationally known for top-performing CZs... it was a $2000+ rifle but it still felt unmistakably like a CZ 455... and its accuracy was no better than my 455 with the tuner on it.

Then I bought a Vudoo. Noticeable improvement in accuracy, vast improvement in fit/finish/feel.

Last year I built a RimX. Pain in the ass debug cycle but now it shoots marginally better than my Vudoo with specific ammo lots.

The Vudoo and RimX are both amazing rifles. Each has its pros and cons. To me, there is no doubt that they're "worth the money." But, at the last monthly precision rimfire match I shot, I was beaten by... a CZ 457. I'm still ahead of that gentleman in the season points race, but make no mistake - his 457 is a very accurate rifle.

My $.02.

 

[Matt_3479]

100% asking if it’s justified to purchase the more expensive ones is different for everyone. The cz’s shoot really well and wouldn’t hold back the best shooters from continuing to hold the top spots and buying a vudoo will not make you a better shooter. The rifle may be capable but the vudoo isn’t some magic answer to beating the top shooters. They generally put in the work, learn their rilfes, learn their sport and that’s why they are on top.

That said features on the rimx/vudoo/deuce make it nicer to shoot generally. More options from suppliers if ordered to help with stuff like balance of rifles, all are 700 platforms so better triggers, more chassis/stock options etc. I’m a believer in buy once cry once and that you’ll end up spending more in the long run slowly swapping rifles to get to what you wanted from the beginning. Jumping to a vudoo/rimx/deuce isn’t going be a negative in any aspect as long as you can afford it. Shooting a cz isn’t going hold you back and will allow for more ammo budget which is a big plus! In the end buy what you really want, but never go broke doing it. Save up longer if it’s the vudoo/rimx that you’d rather and keep shooting what you have for now!

 

[Buckhead]

I started with a T1X and did very well, then moved straight into a Vudoo as the budget allowed. Now that I have the Vudoo set up and dialed in it is far more accurate than a T1X past 200 yards and it is a lot less work to shoot well. I would not waste the time or money spent to rebarrel a T1X or CZ. It’s just not worth it in my opinion. A modified T1X or CZ Is not a Vudoo or RimX and never will be.
Vudoo #2 will be ordered as budget allows.

 

[Defender32]

I started in the game with the B14R in the stele version. It shot good and would shoot way better than the average person is capable of.

I then bought 2 Vudoos. One with each barrel 20” MTU Benchmark & Ace. Neither one really shot better than the other. The Ace was just more consistent out to 300. I did gain some points and start shooting top 3 of club matches. Was this the Vudoo or had I gotten better or was the lot of ammo I was shooting better in that rifle? Or was it that I had just gotten better as a shooter or a combination of them all?? Who knows.

Then I made the jump and bought a RimX!! Boy was that a great choice. A full 100% custom build exactly how I wanted and no box left un checked. It was and still is a way better rifle than all the above.

I have said that to say this. Buy what you want to shoot. Perfect that platform and enjoy it. Once you have the best Rifle, Scope and ammo that your money can buy. Feed it a lot and work on yourself. Take training classes. Practice dry firing. Do all of this 2,3,4,5 times a week and see what changes. I can tell when I have practiced regularly and when I have not. Stay on your mental game and do think about what happened on the last shot string. Focus on the task at hand and the current shot your taking.

Enjoy the sport. It’s a deep hole either way!!

 

[Masojoh]

The variables are very hard to isolate by yourself. I have sent 4 rifles to the Lapua test center - B14R, Kidd supergrade, Vudoo, and RimX. At 50 and 100, they shot in this order of smallest to largest groups - vudoo, RimX, B14R, and supergrade. I almost sold the RimX until I tried some flat nose Eley, and holy smokes it can shoot. I shot all but the Kidd yesterday morning at 200 and 300 yards. The B14R - with lot tested center x - just did not hang with the Vudoo shooting it’s lot tested center x. But the RimX was the clear winner with Eley match. Of course one might argue that the SD of the ammo was the biggest factor here. And they may be right.

I used to change guns every couple of matches, swapping back and forth. That really hurt my muscle memory. Sticking with one rifle now makes it so much easier to get a full field of view with the gun, and stable quick enough to be very deliberate in watching my shots, and correcting on the fly. I also bought 2 cases of the aforementioned Eley match. So I won’t worry about switching ammo any time soon.

But I said it one already here - the guy that won the NRL22 nationals was shooting a stock Tikka T1X. His ability to read the wind and get stable are off the charts. I’m sure the gun was accurate, for sure. But he beat many people with wayyy more expensive rigs.

 

[Kahrhart63]

Been down this rabbit hole long time. Competed with model 52’s in early 70’s got all the way to distinguished expert. Got away from competition while raising family. Now i have been deep since 2020. I was playing with alot of centerfire custom rifles. Covid hit and i started with cz 455. Then ruger rpr rimfire. Than a rimx, than alot of vudoos. I have settled on a vudoo 360 built by di precision, rimx built by ga precision, rimx built by desert precision, and rimx built by modacam custom rifles. Sold all my other 22’s! Kidd supergrades, bunch of vudoos cz’s. I want a mcr built vudoo and i will be done

 

[Bluegrassvw]

I appreciate all the feedback! Thank you all

 

[littlepod]

I went 10/22 -> Tikka T1X -> Tikka T1X in a KRG Bravo -> Tikka T1X in a MDT ACC -> Vudoo V22 -> Vudoo V360 -> Modacam Custom Vudoo 360.

I compete a lot. I like the fact that I can customize my build, and I have a whole selection of Remington 700 triggers. I have a whole selection of Remington 700 Stocks and Chassis. The buy/sell market for R700 stuff is pretty big and I was able to try a lot of chassis by buying them used and then selling them and basically just paying shipping costs for trying stuff. CZ / Tikka markets are much smaller.

I like the ability to dry fire, I dry fire a lot.

I've seen CZ457's tweaked out that shoot really well, very comparable to my Vudoo. But...

I hate the magazines being so small and tiny and trying to fit it into the mag well.
Limited trigger selection - especially if you want a 2-stage.
Not really recommended to be dry firing it.
Limited selection of chassis/stocks available.

Difference in price comes down to say an Action is $1300. Vs an CZ 457 action you can probably find for $500 + Boltknob/Scope Base $150. So $650 difference. Custom barrel / gunsmithing costs are the same.

For $650 difference in price, I'd go Vudoo/RimX any day of the week.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I really like the feel of the action on a Vudoo, feels closer to a real centerfire, nice and solid.

 

[Franko]

Started with a Tikka T1x and immediately had to put a pic rail on it. Then a KRG Bravo chassis looked nice, and then finally a Sterk swept bolt handle. All of this while fighting with magazine issues. Kept fighting with magazine issues. Decided that I hated dealing with magazine issues. Sold the gun for what I had in it and jumped right into the deep end with a RimX.

Zero issues with the RimX. It runs like a sewing machine. Worth the extra money to me, not sure if it's worth it to you. However I do suspect that if I had started with the Bergara I might still be with it.

 

[Defender32]

The variables are very hard to isolate by yourself. I have sent 4 rifles to the Lapua test center - B14R, Kidd supergrade, Vudoo, and RimX. At 50 and 100, they shot in this order of smallest to largest groups - vudoo, RimX, B14R, and supergrade. I almost sold the RimX until I tried some flat nose Eley, and holy smokes it can shoot. I shot all but the Kidd yesterday morning at 200 and 300 yards. The B14R - with lot tested center x - just did not hang with the Vudoo shooting it’s lot tested center x. But the RimX was the clear winner with Eley match. Of course one might argue that the SD of the ammo was the biggest factor here. And they may be right.

I used to change guns every couple of matches, swapping back and forth. That really hurt my muscle memory. Sticking with one rifle now makes it so much easier to get a full field of view with the gun, and stable quick enough to be very deliberate in watching my shots, and correcting on the fly. I also bought 2 cases of the aforementioned Eley match. So I won’t worry about switching ammo any time soon.

But I said it one already here - the guy that won the NRL22 nationals was shooting a stock Tikka T1X. His ability to read the wind and get stable are off the charts. I’m sure the gun was accurate, for sure. But he beat many people with wayyy more expensive rigs.

Zane is a BEAST with that T1X for sure!! He knows how it works inside and out and his abilities are off the charts with that rifle. 99% of the time “It’s NOT the Rifle” it’s the loose nut smacking the bang switch.

Get a rifle that you are comfortable with. It sets good and drives even better. Get training and shoot tons of ammo in lots of situations. Stay off the bench unless you doing tuner work or getting that zero just right. Shoot positional and practice with purpose.

 

[J_D]

In the last 16 months I've gone from 10/22's to multiple high end custom builds. I jumped from a standard factory Vudoo 20" Kukri to start, and went to CZ several increasingly high end variations, back to the Vudoo, and tried them in almost every stock chassis combination. I don't even want to know what that total spent was. I can't speak for everyone, but ammo testing and learning wind, will trump most combos of gear to start with for a long, long time.

I was incredibly happy with my final CZ built by Kenny at DPG (hated to sell it actually), that he's pretty much who I've settled on for barrel work. I've currently got a second DPG Vudoo with a 25" 1.2 barrel that actually arrived last night. Only difference was testing the Gen 1.2 90 degree I had to a new 60 degree gen 3.

I also would recommend not skimping on good glass. Being in the Sr class, a great scope really helps me.

Whichever discipline you choose, learn and watch from the local top shooters, and practice, practice, practice.........lot test ammo and worry about equipment later.

 

[MajorD]

I have been involved in similar conversations about 1911 pistols and from my perspective it goes like this:
is a $500 rifle likely to be twice as good as a $250 rifle, almost certainly
is a $1000 rifle likely to be twice as good as as a $500 rifle ,most probably
is a 2k rifle going to be twice as good as the 1k? Maybe
is the 4k rifle going to be twice as good as the 2k- some will argue here but the honest answer is no. With each incremental jump in price, the amount of refinement / improvement seen ( accuracy/precision whatever you want to call it, handling qualities/ smoothness, whatever your definition of better is) gets smaller. Or to put it another way at a certain price point, the amount you pay for small increases in performance gets larger.
everyone ( well almost everyone) has a line in the sand where they limit cost.
let me be clear I am NOT saying the super expensive guns do not perform better than cheaper ones, just that those Improvement increments are smaller as we go up the price scale, and only the individual can decide if paying an extra thousand bucks more for a rifle is worth what you get.

 

[cp3head]

I have been involved in similar conversations about 1911 pistols and from my perspective it goes like this:
is a $500 rifle likely to be twice as good as a $250 rifle, almost certainly
is a $1000 rifle likely to be twice as good as as a $500 rifle ,most probably
is a 2k rifle going to be twice as good as the 1k? Maybe
is the 4k rifle going to be twice as good as the 2k- some will argue here but the honest answer is no. With each incremental jump in price, the amount of refinement / improvement seen ( accuracy/precision whatever you want to call it, handling qualities/ smoothness, whatever your definition of better is) gets smaller. Or to put it another way at a certain price point, the amount you pay for small increases in performance gets larger.
everyone ( well almost everyone) has a line in the sand where they limit cost.
let me be clear I am NOT saying the super expensive guns do not perform better than cheaper ones, just that those Improvement increments are smaller as we go up the price scale, and only the individual can decide if paying an extra thousand bucks more for a rifle is worth what you get.

+1 on this. I have a cz 455 and a vudu and at 50 yards on paper there is no difference. Is there a difference in feel, trigger, aesthetics? You bet!

For me, it comes down to bank account, intent and if you want a dedicated .22 platform or a true trainer in the sense that everything feels the same as your centerfire set up. There is also a wow factor of having top gear (ie bragging rights, lol).

If you are uncertain, my only advice would be shoot what you have until it is the limiting factor and not the shooter. (No offense intended)

 

[Ruff 364]

I started in the NRL22 at it's inception with a 10/22. I shot for a couple of years and heavily modified several 10/22's. I had spent as much modifying the platform as you could spend on a custom rifle.

I realized at the second national championship match that I had taken the platform to it's limits. There were clearly shots that I knew were excellent trigger pulls that were misses. I could guarantee that the first round (loaded manually by spring) would be a flyer. If the first shot was a target under .5" it was usually going to be a miss.

I was at a point where I could not match the bolt guns, so I joined them with a chassis Rim X.

The last two seasons I have finished top ten in the points race. The platform is no longer holding me back. The addition of a triggercam has allowed me to review everything and I cannot find any misses where I was not the cause.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I have been involved in similar conversations about 1911 pistols and from my perspective it goes like this:
is a $500 rifle likely to be twice as good as a $250 rifle, almost certainly
is a $1000 rifle likely to be twice as good as as a $500 rifle ,most probably
is a 2k rifle going to be twice as good as the 1k? Maybe
is the 4k rifle going to be twice as good as the 2k- some will argue here but the honest answer is no. With each incremental jump in price, the amount of refinement / improvement seen ( accuracy/precision whatever you want to call it, handling qualities/ smoothness, whatever your definition of better is) gets smaller. Or to put it another way at a certain price point, the amount you pay for small increases in performance gets larger.
everyone ( well almost everyone) has a line in the sand where they limit cost.
let me be clear I am NOT saying the super expensive guns do not perform better than cheaper ones, just that those Improvement increments are smaller as we go up the price scale, and only the individual can decide if paying an extra thousand bucks more for a rifle is worth what you get.

I think you are pretty close to being spot on. My first bolt gun in 22LR was a B14R, it was more than I had hoped for. It shot SK + and CCI SV extremely well. I followed up with a Rim X within a month and maybe more so that I spent more money on ammo, it was considerably more accurate and smoother, IMO, big upgrade.

I got the wife shooting, first time ever, she loved the Bergara, but when we'd shoot, she'd start missing right pretty bad, it was the bolt closure tilting the gun to the right, I should have brought a channel lock pliers to tighten the Atlas. It was a pain for me too. So, I bought her a Vudoo, and sold the B14R, which pissed her off. She never took to the Vudoo, and one day proclaimed running a bolt action was too much work, she will stick with her Kidd build, and 10/22 Ruger race rifle. I guess loading ruger mags is easier than running a bolt.

Pretty rare I shoot the Vudoo or Rim X inside of 250 yards, so both are worth every dime I have into them. I shoot a lot from 3-600 yards at various size steel.
I did hit a paint can at 700 in 10 shots with the Rim X the other day, 42.4 mils up, wind hold averaged about 3.8 right, I was close from the first shot, had one rd left before opening a new box of ammo, after my first shot, I was going to hit it regardless of the cost.
I'd buy another Rim X barreled action in a heartbeat, or a Vudoo, just that a BA itself is a fraction of the total cost.

 

[mikeshaw2]

The platform is no longer holding me back.

snip

For me personally, that's when the change will happen. I know my 457s in KRG Bravos are still more accurate than I am (as much as I like to blame the rifle like most people)

Sure, I'd love to have a RimX, but do I *NEED* a RimX? No

Based on past experience I'll probably end up with one as I come across good deals on parts. Its the hunt that's fun for me

M

 

[shootrj2003]

Maybe you shouldn’t have sold her rifle,she was happy with it.

 

[MajorD]

What ruff states is about where I focus. If I am not being held back by a platform, I will keep shooting it until I am. Then a change is reasonable.
to piggy back on what I said before but couldn’t find the words is that with each increment in price bracket the improvement you are buying gets smaller:
250 to 500-50% better
500-1k 40% better
1k-2k 20% better
beyond that incremental improvement is in single digits.
only you can decide if 5% improvement is work an extra grand to you

 

[Hoser]

I started off with a 40X single shot, a 10/22 and a CLE AR-15 upper.

The 10/22 was the first to get culled. Then the CLE. The 40X turned into a repeater, which turned into several repeaters.

About that time Vudoos came out. I bought one, and then another.

Then I bought a Anschutz 1727.

I still have the 40Xs, Vudoos and the 1727. The Vudoos are about the only rimfires I shoot these days.

Had Vudoos and RimXs been a thing 10-12 years ago, I would have started and finished there.

 

[obx22]

I’m wondering if a lot of those folks bouncing around, especially within a given platform, and noticing dramatic scoring improvements, used the same stock-chassis, or if you swapped the entire guns?
I‘ve always been a fanatic about fitment of rifle to shooter. That statement might shock those who knew me years ago and saw me constantly competing with different guns. When I started barricade shooting, I found stock style made the biggest improvement to my scores. I started with a laser accurate Rem.504, but the lack of a positional stock/chassis was a hindrance. When a part broke, I bounced between a Ruger 77/22 and a 10/22 clone. The clone had a tool less adjustable stock and showed great promise, but then I purchased a Bergara B14-R.
I went from lower 3rd to winning that first match. Switched to a chassis and it took a bit of work to tweak to my best fit, but I feel my misses are all on me. Notice I haven’t said diddly about balance. My rifle currently balances on the magazine, and holds offhand like a dream. I see this trend towards front weight and forward balance, and wonder if it would help me steady up more- might explore that…
OP, what stock are you running on your autoloader, and can you make it fit YOU so you can get everything out of it?

 

[Ruslow]

i started in the 22 game with a 40x conversion with the original barrel and won a few matchs and top 5 in most.the them, beating me were running bergs so i bit the bullet and bought a b14r w/carbon fiber barrel or so i thought.In the OK heat shot great in the early stages of the matchs but as the heat went up the groups did to.the barrel is a pencil barrel with a carbon sleeve. the other competitors were shooting the steel barrel. tried all i could to get a better group out of it best i could do was with a suppersor but still not at the level i needed. so went with the vudoo.also rebarreled the 40x so now both shoot the same size groups.So the berg is a safe black sheep. let my grandson shoot it, not good enough now to even keep me in the top half of the comps,since 22 has become so popular. Stan

 

[King_beardsly]

I’ve gone 10/22 to 10/22 with Kidd barrel then B14R in PRS1 to RimX with a keystone 20” med palma in KRG Bravo to swapping the B14R into the Bravo and RimX to PRS1, finally settling into the RimX now having a 23” straight 12tw truck axle in the PRS1 weighing in at close to 20lbs.

Now have there been accuracy improvements along the way as the price increases most definitely, but isn’t it fair to compare a carbine 10/22 to a purpose built PRS rig probably not.

The B14R and original RimX build was probably the closest in accuracy since they were both in the same stocks with some triggers with the ability to compare them apples to apples. Both would consistently hold .5” groups with SK Std+ of random lots, now switching to the heavier fast twist on the RimX it’s in the .3 with a decent lots across the board and best I’ve gotten was something like .177 but it’s never been repeated since I only had one box of that lot. That being said the longer barrel on the RimX is much more forgiving when it comes to ammo selection compared to the b14R, coupled with the extra weight out front makes it much easier to shoot well off props for matches.

 

[chevy_man]

I run a b14r in a bravo with a b&a trigger.

I regularly beat Vudoo and Rim-x builds.


I also beat those same guys at every other game, similar story. They bring the $, but forget to actually shoot.

If you can afford it, go to the top. If it's painful, just get into the t1x/b14r/457 world and put in the effort.

 

[jps2486]

I'm sorry, but if you are intent upon shooting with the top dogs and getting winning scores, and after you have exhausted yourself in developing your marksmanship skills, it's time to move on up. Trying to make a cheap gun like a 10/22, Tikka, Br1 and the like to compete at that level is a waste of money. The next step is the top tier rifles like Vudoo, RimX, Anschutz, or custom guns using custom actions like the 2500. Then practice, compete, practice, repeat. All the while enjoying yourself. I just saw the national N50 results and the top rimfire competitors used Anschutz rifles. Interesting, but what models were they.

 

[Bluegrassvw]

Thank you all for the feedback

 

[shootrj2003]

,it’s not a waste of money if YOU have the skills.You know- instead of paying some other guy for HIS skills?I have
had to pay others ,BUT only for machine work ,headspacing etc. these things I could do but the one time cost doesn’t make sense when he does it for the same cost.I have been tempted at times to invest in a small lathe and milling machine .

 

[Gtar]

I've run a few different rifles now, I started with a Lithgow LA101 which is a brilliant little rifle and amazingly accurate. I did a lot of work to set it up for 22 PRS shooting, made a backbone and trigger guard to fit Bravo skins and it did the job well, it was just very hard to get well balanced even with a lot of extra weight in the stock. The trigger was also pretty good with a spring change and a bit of work. I made a 20 MOA rail and fitted a Sightron S-Tac which worked pretty well for our night matches. It is my favourite all-round 22 but not the perfect match rifle.

I didn't want to start pulling the rifle apart and fitting a heavier barrel so I ended up buying a Steel barreled Bergara B14R. The Bergara was a definite downgrade in fit and finish, had a horrible trigger and took a bit of work to get it to feed and extract reliably. The bonus was that it was incredibly easy to modify with off the shelf parts. I got it really well sorted, Put it in a KRG X-ray, fitted a Timney trigger, barrel tuner, lots of weight and won a few matches with it. I ran a Kahles 624i and then a Vortex Razor for the closer parallax adjustment. It also shot some amazing groups in rimfire F-class, the best being a 200.12 off an Atlas bipod. Then I had a lucky week where I saw a Gen 1 Vudoo come up for sale and also had a bloke want to buy the Bergara as a dedicated F-class rifle so I sold it and bought the Vudoo.

The Vudoo already had a 20" MTU barrel, Jewel HVR trigger, Lowey Tuner and a bunch of magazines and 40 MOA rail. I put it in a new X-Ray stock, added a bit of weight inside the stock and made a brass NV bridge (to fit the NF prism). I swapped the Razor onto it in some higher rings to match up pretty well to the prism. I got a second place in the first match I shot with it by a point. It's no more accurate than the Bergara but it so reliable, it fed and ejected every round for the entire match and I was running 4 different mags throughout the match to test them out. Even though it's not obviously more accurate than the Bergara, the difference in confidence knowing that I can cycle the bolt and it'll eject and load the next round is worth a few points each match. The difference in how smoothly the bolt closes and cocks means it doesn't move around once you're on target and that's a huge benefit.

It's been a bit of an evolution but I think definitely worth the upgrades. I might put another barrel on this at some stage but for now I think it's pretty spot on. Target for the Vudoo below testing tuner settings at 50m.

 

[mmlook]

But I said it one already here - the guy that won the NRL22 nationals was shooting a stock Tikka T1X. His ability to read the wind and get stable are off the charts. I’m sure the gun was accurate, for sure. But he beat many people with wayyy more expensive rigs.

To throw more fuel on this

directly from the winner himself

“factory guns tend to be more ammo sensitive, where Vudoo’s and rimX’s aren’t.”

“So you might need to go through 5-10 lots of ammo to find one that shoots in your factory gun. But, only 1-2 lots to find one that shoots in your custom gun”

in a brighter note, I shot a rimX all last season, but I just bought a CZ457

 

[Litzner]

In my personal experience, my CZ 457 will outshoot my 10/22 every day. I currently have a CZ 457 MTR Varmint with a bolt shim kit to reduce head space to about .043, a little firing pin work to help with more consistence velocities, and an improved steel firing pin indicator. Against a 10/22 with an aftermarket 18" barrel, in a Magpul stock, Volquartsen trigger kit, same firing pin work, and I did a little work on the bolt to reduce the headspace to .046.

I think likely the best bang for buck performance you may be able to get out of a .22 rifle is a CZ 457 setup by a competent gunsmith. The CZ 457 from DPG comes to mind. They compete with Vudoo and RimX at a substantial cost savings. But as others have said, you can likely find a lot of ammo a stock CZ 457 really likes and have it compete very well with a custom built one. The custom built barreled actions will just have a much easier time finding those "good" lots. Which is why I have a custom CZ 457 barreled action on order. I would rather have an easier time finding good ammo I can shoot.

 

[Tomiboy]

I've had CZ452s, CZ457, T1X, and now Vudoo 360 w/26" Shilen.....no way I'm going back! It outshoots them all. Most CZs and Tikka's will shoot low .3s at 50. My Vudoo will shoot low .2s. All with selected ammo. Doesn't really matter for PRS/NRL but I like to compete in other disciplines also.

 

[ECK]

I haven’t done the full run but I have book-ended it. I started with a CZ455 and now have a Vudoo with truck axle barrel.

The CZ was fun, it got me started down the rabbit hole but like the OP said, past 200 yds and it was not consistent, especially lot to lot. My other knock on the CZ was it was a PITA to get it balanced right with that .820“ dia 20” barrel. Third issue was the lack of after-market support for the 455. Maybe had I gone 457 I would still be shooting the CZ albeit with a different barrel, trigger, and chassis.

But, my experience with the 455 in the first year of shooting comps helped me identify what I wanted out of a rimfire rifle, which led me to spec’ing out my Vudoo to what it is now.

As far as quantifying if it is worth the $$, I hate those kinds of questions. I could compete with a Glock but at the same time I know I shoot better with a tricked out CZ Shadow 2. I could probably get by with a cheap red dot, but running Trijicons for the most part means I don’t have dot issues. I shot centerfire for a few years with a factory Ruger, but once I built my Impact-Proof-TT-XLR 6GT rifle I way more enjoy shooting that gat and I’m doing better in the match standings. I did win a local match with my old CZ455, but since getting the Vudoo I’ve moved up in the standings. So yeah, for me it’s worth it. YMMV.

 

[David Nissen Kahn]

The technical details discussed fly way above my pay grade, but I do know a bit about human performance and psychology. The novice shooter who wants to learn really needs a topnotch system. Whether that's a tricked out CZ or a purpose-built Remington 700 footprint or something else depends, I suppose, on the skills level of the shooter and their expectations. But knowing what the mechanical shooting system can do in ideal conditions in expert hands immediately implies that misses or poorer groups are operator problems. If your rifle can shoot in the 0.2s at fifty yards with the ammunition you're running in it, in the conditions you're working in, then your 0.5 groups are your problem, for you and your trainer/coach to sort out.

 

[J_D]

Wind reading and factory ammo, have a significant factor in the 22lr competition game. The rest is the shooter and rifle.

 

[King_beardsly]

Wind reading and factory ammo, have a significant factor in the 22lr competition game. The rest is the shooter and rifle.

Agreed 100% with the right ammo and wind I can shoot .2-.3 at 50 off a bench pretty consistently, but wrong ammo or wind reading then it’s a horror story.

 

[Seymour Fish]

I've run a few different rifles now, I started with a Lithgow LA101 which is a brilliant little rifle and amazingly accurate. I did a lot of work to set it up for 22 PRS shooting, made a backbone and trigger guard to fit Bravo skins and it did the job well, it was just very hard to get well balanced even with a lot of extra weight in the stock. The trigger was also pretty good with a spring change and a bit of work. I made a 20 MOA rail and fitted a Sightron S-Tac which worked pretty well for our night matches. It is my favourite all-round 22 but not the perfect match rifle.

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I didn't want to start pulling the rifle apart and fitting a heavier barrel so I ended up buying a Steel barreled Bergara B14R. The Bergara was a definite downgrade in fit and finish, had a horrible trigger and took a bit of work to get it to feed and extract reliably. The bonus was that it was incredibly easy to modify with off the shelf parts. I got it really well sorted, Put it in a KRG X-ray, fitted a Timney trigger, barrel tuner, lots of weight and won a few matches with it. I ran a Kahles 624i and then a Vortex Razor for the closer parallax adjustment. It also shot some amazing groups in rimfire F-class, the best being a 200.12 off an Atlas bipod. Then I had a lucky week where I saw a Gen 1 Vudoo come up for sale and also had a bloke want to buy the Bergara as a dedicated F-class rifle so I sold it and bought the Vudoo.

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The Vudoo already had a 20" MTU barrel, Jewel HVR trigger, Lowey Tuner and a bunch of magazines and 40 MOA rail. I put it in a new X-Ray stock, added a bit of weight inside the stock and made a brass NV bridge (to fit the NF prism). I swapped the Razor onto it in some higher rings to match up pretty well to the prism. I got a second place in the first match I shot with it by a point. It's no more accurate than the Bergara but it so reliable, it fed and ejected every round for the entire match and I was running 4 different mags throughout the match to test them out. Even though it's not obviously more accurate than the Bergara, the difference in confidence knowing that I can cycle the bolt and it'll eject and load the next round is worth a few points each match. The difference in how smoothly the bolt closes and cocks means it doesn't move around once you're on target and that's a huge benefit.

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It's been a bit of an evolution but I think definitely worth the upgrades. I might put another barrel on this at some stage but for now I think it's pretty spot on. Target for the Vudoo below testing tuner settings at 50m.

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Sweet. Did you change POA at setting 60-70 ?

 

[Gtar]

Sweet. Did you change POA at setting 60-70 ?

Yep, changed from the 6 o-clock on the diamond to 3 o-clock for that row so the shots were on the paper and not between the 2 sheets.

 

[Hattrick]

My RimX was expensive I don’t shoot competition but dam i like It! stupid accurate freaking smooth as silk and a true custom, if I ever decide to compete I’m good to go. Makes me smile every time I run the bolt. I don’t know anything about VooDOO But I have a hard time believe they are better than what I have. So for me worth every penny

 

[JR1200W3]

I went from a custom CZ455 in the MPA CZ455 chassis and Lilja barrel to a Vudoo in a MPA BA Comp with weights and a TT Diamond, to a RIM X with a custom Shilen ratchet rifled barrel and chamber with the same furniture. It's all about shootability in barricade positions. Using a R700 footprint opens you up to full size rifle chassis which then open you up to all the weight kits and accessories. You are able to tune the "barrel support system" to interface with you as the shooter in a much more forgiving and adaptable way. In less than ideal positions, under time the gun will be less finicky to shoot and forgive some rushed fundamentals.

The original 455 action had been worked over by a well known rimfire gunsmith. It had a lighted trigger spring. I put Timney's early trigger in it and it was pretty decent but if you ran the bolt hard you could pull it right out of the action while shooting it. It shot shelf grade SK Standard Plus really well but at the time I never grouped it at 100. I put a fake "suppressor" on it to add weight.

I bought the Vudoo and my scores improved but I was also advancing as a shooter. I had weekly practice sessions with a couple of friends at a local outdoor range. 3-4 hours in the summer on Thursday evenings. We shot out to 300. I lot tested a bunch of SK Standard Plus and bought a case. The Vudoo shot well but not exceptional. I thought it would be amazing after all the hype. I lot tested some Center X and found some improvement in raw accuracy at 100. Basically curing the occasional low shot out of a nice sub-moa group.

When the RIM X came out I pre-ordered an action. I'm a huge Bighorn/ Zermatt fan and have several TL3 s and Origins. I was also hyped about a switch barrel rimfire with 17WSM capabilities. I ordered a Shilen select match ratchet rifled rimfire barrel. My smith had a reamer made with some custom specs. It is a variation of the Win 52D chamber. I initially struggled with feeding issues and he had to bevel the edge of the chamber because it was shaving bullet and case. We ordered another reamer that cuts the bevel as it chambers to fix this. I started lot testing Center X. I would shoot a 50rd box at 100 in an indoor range. 5 x 10rd groups. All in one sitting. It was all about finding a lot that had the least amount of low shots out the bottom. All the Center X would shoot well, it was just about the vertical spread that distinguished lots. When I found an outstanding lot I ordered a case. At this point I was shooting a Form 1 .45 cal suppressor. 8" x 1.375" with all steel baffles. It weighed 15 ounces. The Shilen barrel is 20" long and is .900 at the muzzle. I used the same BA Comp chassis with the front weights and TT Diamond trigger. Sold the Vudoo BA. I had a string of local matches where I won every match I shot. People would give in before the match started when I showed up. This was about 2 or 3 years ago. I haven't shot a NRL22X match this year.

Every barrel in those last three rifles would shoot well in raw accuracy. Laying prone in an indoor range. But thoroughly lot testing at some distance matched quality ammo to a custom barrel to extract the higher potential of the barrel and helped tremendously at distant targets. Putting that barrel in a platform that could be shot just as well in less than ideal positions is the key to access that raw accuracy under the clock in awkward positions on stupid props.

Hope that helps.

The CZ455

The first box of Center X out of the Vudoo. This was given to me by an Olympic competitor from his stash of the good stuff.

Then the RIM X

Lot testing

Gearing up for practice matches.

Trying my hand at the SH 6x5 challenge.

 

[JR1200W3]

While all the above was going on I decided I regretted selling that CZ455 and the 457's had just come out. So I bought a donor rifle, scrapped everything but the action and trigger.

Threw in a aftermarket trigger spring and ordered another MPA chassis. I splurged on a silly Proof Carbon Fiber 16" CZ prefit ...and just bolted it on with the factory grub screws. No truing, gluing, or anything special. It shot surprisingly well with CCI SV. And then it sat that way for several years in the gun rack. Recently I bought a Grey Birch chassis. Over time I felt like the dimensions of the CZ MPA chassis was mismatch for the tiny 457 action and lightweight Proof barrel. I installed the Grey Birch and shot it for the first time two evenings ago. The complete rifle with an Athlon Midas TAC 4x16 and AAC Element 2 suppressor is tiny and really light! Like 7.5lbs.

It is more difficult to shoot because it wants to move all over the place when lay prone behind it with a quality rear bag. The trigger is probably around 1.5-2lbs and really crisp. I used some cheap, one-screw knock off Amazon rings. But I shot CCI SV and a lot of Standard Plus that I got for cheap and never shot that great for me. After a quick zero and some impressive 50yd groups, I stretched out to 100 to see what my data would be. This is where it really impressed. Multiple 1/2" 5rd groups at 99yds! Both from CCI SV and the Standard Plus. Note the low shots at the 6 o'clock below the 4rd knots. This is the ammo talking.

This is a good example of raw accuracy in what is considered the non-custom, conventional rimfires. I can lay down behind it and shoot some mildly impressive groups in an indoor range. But this rifle would be nowhere competitive from props as the 20lb RIM X.

 

[Seymour Fish]

Yep, changed from the 6 o-clock on the diamond to 3 o-clock for that row so the shots were on the paper and not between the 2 sheets.

Your POI never shifted, while you shaped groups. Very impressive !

 

[Gtar]

Your POI never shifted, while you shaped groups. Very impressive !

Yep, nothing really changed apart from the group size. I would have spent more time playing with it but it's plenty good enough to ding steel. I might shoot some F-class matches with it next year and spend some time getting it really dialled in. The tuner made a lot more difference on the Bergara, probably due to the lighter barrel. This balances beautifully though with the MTU profile and a bit of weight in the stock.

 

[Bluegrassvw]

Does anyone that has replied here have data on group sizes at 300 yards and beyond in a head to head with the CZ 457 and a Vudoo or Rimx? To me, at that distance and beyond is where the concern lies.

Also, everyone mentions weight but balance is more important IMO. Once the gun is balanced you’ll see your impact % improve. Back heavy or front heavy and you are fighting gravity and not even realizing it.

There are a few good smiths who are trueing CZ actions, chambering with custom barrels and claiming they can stand with the Vudoo and RIMX. I can believe this, but the curiosity lies in distances past 300, where how the bullet was chamber can affect the flight. Maybe I’m just overthinking though.

 

[JR1200W3]

Are you asking about raw accuracy at rimfire long range? Or about shootability off a barricade? Or raw accuracy at rimfire long range off a barricade?

IMO, performance at 300 + is all about your lot of ammo. I know some folks have played with faster twist rates on the theory of long range accuracy by stabilization but I've never seen anything conclusive. And that doesn't have much to do with the action. Perhaps tangentially based on the idea that you have more custom options using a 1.25" barrel.

 

[JR1200W3]

@Bluegrassvw what are you trying to figure out ultimately? Whether or not it's worth it to buy a V22 or RimX? Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but no amount of internet forum back and forth will ever satisfy your curiosity. You either need to just give it up, stick with what you got or take the plunge and buy a $3,000 custom rimfire and satisfy your curiosity for yourself. If you want raw data, the best version you're probably going to find is the rimfire 6x5 thread. But the last time I checked they don't shoot at 300 plus yards.

 

[Bluegrassvw]

@Bluegrassvw what are you trying to figure out ultimately? Whether or not it's worth it to buy a V22 or RimX? Not trying to be a Debbie Downer but no amount of internet forum back and forth will ever satisfy your curiosity. You either need to just give it up, stick with what you got or take the plunge and buy a $3,000 custom rimfire and satisfy your curiosity for yourself. If you want raw data, the best version you're probably going to find is the rimfire 6x5 thread. But the last time I checked they don't shoot at 300 plus yards.

I don’t consider your comment negative. I’m just curious if there is an accuracy difference or is it more that the RIMX and Vudoo have more options available that make the gun “easier” to shoot vs the CZ.

 

[Bluegrassvw]

Are you asking about raw accuracy at rimfire long range? Or about shootability off a barricade? Or raw accuracy at rimfire long range off a barricade?

IMO, performance at 300 + is all about your lot of ammo. I know some folks have played with faster twist rates on the theory of long range accuracy by stabilization but I've never seen anything conclusive. And that doesn't have much to do with the action. Perhaps tangentially based on the idea that you have more custom options using a 1.25" barrel.

Raw accuracy…. And I think you nailed it there. Is it the bullet or the gun that’s the factor at distance.

Also, thank you again to everyone that has weighed in. Happy New Year